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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Describing Damaged Covers

 

Author
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philatelia
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14 Jan 2015
12:50:37pm
There are many discussions in the database about damaged stamps, but I couldn't find one for damaged covers. I'm wondering how are covers described differently from stamps? This is in my thoughts today because I was offered a censored Irish cover at my stamp club, but I wasn't too keen on buying it because of the note the seller stapled to the cover. To me, the staple holes damaged the cover. Am I being too fussy or is damage to the cover acceptable as long as the stamp and cancel are good?

I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions. Thank you!
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smaier
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Sally

14 Jan 2015
01:37:12pm
re: Describing Damaged Covers

Theresa,

Someone in your club actually stapled something to a cover? What were they thinking?

I am not a cover collector but several folks in our local club are. Some "Golden Rules" I have picked up:

1. Never remove a stamp from a cover (hahaha)
2. Do no further harm (in other words, try to keep it in the same condition as when you acquired it)
3. Do not write on the cover, front or back
4. The better its condition, the easier it is to sell it
5. Sometimes the overall condition doesn't matter but it depends on the item (and if there are two of them, always choose the one in better overall condition)
6. You can't know what covers will be sought after in the future, so treat them all with care

I guess there are no hard and fast rules. Just depends on your personal preference and what you need for your collection at the time.

Sally



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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

14 Jan 2015
01:37:28pm

Auctions
re: Describing Damaged Covers

Theresa,

this is mostly subjective, but, for me, I'm not particularly picky about the state of a cover. Many have travelled thousands of miles, been stepped on, cancelled and routed through machines, opened and read and censored by one nationality before having the same intrusion by another. All, in all, if the cover tells a story, I'm all for it, even if the stamp is damaged or gone, the cancel smudged, Uncle Emory wrote down the parts he needed to fix the tranny, and Baby Celia put red crayon on the back.

In fact, many of my favorite covers have had far worse done to them, and have some postal markings to document it (some of you know of my body bag fetish, part of my tales from the {post office} crypt series).

I recently fought against another SORer for a cover that may be among the first instances of a cachet depicting the federal corps badges (this for Hancock's Second Corps); stamp was gone, it was clearly dirty, but, hell, it sure is interesting. My main complaint was that someone else noticed it and I didn't get it for the opening bid.

probably more than you wanted Theresa, but there you have it

David

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Shibumi
Members Picture


14 Jan 2015
01:48:01pm
re: Describing Damaged Covers

Here's some issues about covers:

1. The possibility of "manufactured" postal history; i.e. forgeries. Study the stamp and what ties it to the cover.

2. Toning - or foxing. This dreadful effect is very common, and it can reduce value and pleasure from the cover. You will also often see that the flap gum has bled through to the front. reduce value for that usually.

3. Missing back - described by sellers as "front only." I think this severely reduces the value of the cover, but does not eliminate value.

4. Brutal opening - you will sometimes see this repaired. Can or can not be a value factor.

5.Addressed / unaddressed. A key factor in FDCs - but of variable value in older postal history where origin and destination are very impt.

6. Value of postage on the cover - determine whether appropriate for the date - if over or under - try to find out why.

These are just some opening considerations. A key point in covers is that the "facts" of the cover will often outweigh apparent deficiencies. To put this another way, significant postage or postal history on a cover may be of such a value that you can overlook blemishes. A stamp may be valued mainly on condition, but a cover will likely be valued mostly on its history. Just my .02 cents

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davidgjones.authorsxpress.com/2012/05/14/david-g-jones-author-of-the-school-of-sun-tzu/
TuskenRaider
Members Picture


14 Jan 2015
02:28:18pm
re: Describing Damaged Covers

Hi Everyone;

Speaking of covers, I would never get a stapler any where near a philatelic item ever. But I
understand what you mean David about covers with a lot less beauty, and a lot more of a
story to tell.

Here are a couple of covers that I bought many years ago in the Muskegon Stamp Club in
the early 70s.

Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

I have no idea of the value of covers, but I almost soaked the J16 off for my collection, and
decided not to, and eventually got one in a packet of B-O-B stuff. The red blob on the third
image is a old fashioned wax seal. Do you think these are worth anything David?

Napoleon Michigan is in Jackson County in southern part of the mitten. It has a population of
1,200, in the year of 2,000. I'm given to understand that small towns with very readable
cancels are worth more that larger cities. Is that correct?

Keep on stampin'....
TuskenRaider

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

14 Jan 2015
02:48:20pm

Auctions
re: Describing Damaged Covers

Ken,

glad you kept the due cover intact.

about wax seals, I don't know. i do see them highlighted in eBay listings, so there may be someone who is interested in them, although it's one of the few arenas I've managed to avoid.

About small towns, they are amazingly valuable, assuming that there's someone who collects that town, county, or whatever. You've seen Bob I's posts about Silver City and environs and his perpetual search. But, with no one to collect them, well....

I generally find it difficult to destroy a cover, unless it's one of a billion. I would keep the two fronts; the seal, I'd need to see the reverse.

The Napoleon MI cover is spectacular for the clean CDS sent in the early days of the Civil War, if the pencil notation is to be believed (fits the #65).

Let me know if I haven't sufficiently answered your questions

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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Shibumi
Members Picture


15 Jan 2015
02:45:48pm
re: Describing Damaged Covers

Wax seals can be like stamp cancels: that is - they could be of value if there is something on them. Wax sealing was very common in the good ole days so they are not rare. But people sometimes "impressed" the seal with a device - or maybe a ring. See if there is an impression........

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davidgjones.authorsxpress.com/2012/05/14/david-g-jones-author-of-the-school-of-sun-tzu/
snowy12
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15 Jan 2015
05:40:38pm

Auctions
re: Describing Damaged Covers

Speaking of wax seals,I have this cover from Belgium sent in 1947 to Australia registered it has a waxed seal on the reverse impressed with a diamond and crown!!!
It was sent from Oostmalle I think that's the name on the registration label ,Would any of our members know who used this particular seal?
Here's a couple of scans.
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Brian

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
philatelia

14 Jan 2015
12:50:37pm

There are many discussions in the database about damaged stamps, but I couldn't find one for damaged covers. I'm wondering how are covers described differently from stamps? This is in my thoughts today because I was offered a censored Irish cover at my stamp club, but I wasn't too keen on buying it because of the note the seller stapled to the cover. To me, the staple holes damaged the cover. Am I being too fussy or is damage to the cover acceptable as long as the stamp and cancel are good?

I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions. Thank you!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"August 2023 - selling penny start bargain lots on EBay - https://www.ebay.com/str/philatelia"

www.ebay.com/str/phi ...
Members Picture
smaier

Sally
14 Jan 2015
01:37:12pm

re: Describing Damaged Covers

Theresa,

Someone in your club actually stapled something to a cover? What were they thinking?

I am not a cover collector but several folks in our local club are. Some "Golden Rules" I have picked up:

1. Never remove a stamp from a cover (hahaha)
2. Do no further harm (in other words, try to keep it in the same condition as when you acquired it)
3. Do not write on the cover, front or back
4. The better its condition, the easier it is to sell it
5. Sometimes the overall condition doesn't matter but it depends on the item (and if there are two of them, always choose the one in better overall condition)
6. You can't know what covers will be sought after in the future, so treat them all with care

I guess there are no hard and fast rules. Just depends on your personal preference and what you need for your collection at the time.

Sally



Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
14 Jan 2015
01:37:28pm

Auctions

re: Describing Damaged Covers

Theresa,

this is mostly subjective, but, for me, I'm not particularly picky about the state of a cover. Many have travelled thousands of miles, been stepped on, cancelled and routed through machines, opened and read and censored by one nationality before having the same intrusion by another. All, in all, if the cover tells a story, I'm all for it, even if the stamp is damaged or gone, the cancel smudged, Uncle Emory wrote down the parts he needed to fix the tranny, and Baby Celia put red crayon on the back.

In fact, many of my favorite covers have had far worse done to them, and have some postal markings to document it (some of you know of my body bag fetish, part of my tales from the {post office} crypt series).

I recently fought against another SORer for a cover that may be among the first instances of a cachet depicting the federal corps badges (this for Hancock's Second Corps); stamp was gone, it was clearly dirty, but, hell, it sure is interesting. My main complaint was that someone else noticed it and I didn't get it for the opening bid.

probably more than you wanted Theresa, but there you have it

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
Shibumi

14 Jan 2015
01:48:01pm

re: Describing Damaged Covers

Here's some issues about covers:

1. The possibility of "manufactured" postal history; i.e. forgeries. Study the stamp and what ties it to the cover.

2. Toning - or foxing. This dreadful effect is very common, and it can reduce value and pleasure from the cover. You will also often see that the flap gum has bled through to the front. reduce value for that usually.

3. Missing back - described by sellers as "front only." I think this severely reduces the value of the cover, but does not eliminate value.

4. Brutal opening - you will sometimes see this repaired. Can or can not be a value factor.

5.Addressed / unaddressed. A key factor in FDCs - but of variable value in older postal history where origin and destination are very impt.

6. Value of postage on the cover - determine whether appropriate for the date - if over or under - try to find out why.

These are just some opening considerations. A key point in covers is that the "facts" of the cover will often outweigh apparent deficiencies. To put this another way, significant postage or postal history on a cover may be of such a value that you can overlook blemishes. A stamp may be valued mainly on condition, but a cover will likely be valued mostly on its history. Just my .02 cents

Like
Login to Like
this post

davidgjones.authorsx ...
Members Picture
TuskenRaider

14 Jan 2015
02:28:18pm

re: Describing Damaged Covers

Hi Everyone;

Speaking of covers, I would never get a stapler any where near a philatelic item ever. But I
understand what you mean David about covers with a lot less beauty, and a lot more of a
story to tell.

Here are a couple of covers that I bought many years ago in the Muskegon Stamp Club in
the early 70s.

Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

I have no idea of the value of covers, but I almost soaked the J16 off for my collection, and
decided not to, and eventually got one in a packet of B-O-B stuff. The red blob on the third
image is a old fashioned wax seal. Do you think these are worth anything David?

Napoleon Michigan is in Jackson County in southern part of the mitten. It has a population of
1,200, in the year of 2,000. I'm given to understand that small towns with very readable
cancels are worth more that larger cities. Is that correct?

Keep on stampin'....
TuskenRaider

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/sto ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
14 Jan 2015
02:48:20pm

Auctions

re: Describing Damaged Covers

Ken,

glad you kept the due cover intact.

about wax seals, I don't know. i do see them highlighted in eBay listings, so there may be someone who is interested in them, although it's one of the few arenas I've managed to avoid.

About small towns, they are amazingly valuable, assuming that there's someone who collects that town, county, or whatever. You've seen Bob I's posts about Silver City and environs and his perpetual search. But, with no one to collect them, well....

I generally find it difficult to destroy a cover, unless it's one of a billion. I would keep the two fronts; the seal, I'd need to see the reverse.

The Napoleon MI cover is spectacular for the clean CDS sent in the early days of the Civil War, if the pencil notation is to be believed (fits the #65).

Let me know if I haven't sufficiently answered your questions

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
Shibumi

15 Jan 2015
02:45:48pm

re: Describing Damaged Covers

Wax seals can be like stamp cancels: that is - they could be of value if there is something on them. Wax sealing was very common in the good ole days so they are not rare. But people sometimes "impressed" the seal with a device - or maybe a ring. See if there is an impression........

Like
Login to Like
this post

davidgjones.authorsx ...
Members Picture
snowy12

15 Jan 2015
05:40:38pm

Auctions

re: Describing Damaged Covers

Speaking of wax seals,I have this cover from Belgium sent in 1947 to Australia registered it has a waxed seal on the reverse impressed with a diamond and crown!!!
It was sent from Oostmalle I think that's the name on the registration label ,Would any of our members know who used this particular seal?
Here's a couple of scans.
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Brian

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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