Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
11:11:24am
All comments solicited and appreciated.
Bobby
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the last time that US stamps were demonetized was August 1861 (from an April 1861 edict), all with the idea of denying confederate states the opportunity to redeem federal stamps for federal cash
there are some restrictions on more recent US stamps, such as on Special Delivery stamps. they are not technically demonetized, but there are restrictions.
There are also restrictions on pre-cancelled (or service inscribed) stamps, but they were issued with those restrictions, so their value and usage haven't changed
David
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The last I knew, Canadian stamps are all still valid for postage as are stamps from Newfoundland. The other provinces, the stamps are no longer valid.
I have received mail from the UK that has stamps with KG VI.
Non-Euro using European countries I have seen mail with older stamps from the past 10-20 years.
Euro-using European countries I sometimes see older Euro-denominated stamps, especially from Germany.
I have received mail from China (People's Republic) with stamps that were 10-20 years old.
Modern only from Caribbean Islands if commemoratives were used, slightly older if definitives were used (like going back to the previous definitive set).
You just don't see that much mail from anywhere with stamps used for postage anymore.
Friends who have visited countries in South America and Caribbean islands have brought me back a few older stamps that they said they bought at a local post office. So, the older stamps are out there. They just aren't being used.
I used to get alot of international mail. Not so much anymore. Those I listed above were from what I saw from the last couple of years. Now that I think about it, I have seen some older stamps on mail from Australia too.
In the past, I never saw older stamps used on mail from Russia, Belarus, Singapore, Thailand, South Africa, Mexico and Israel. I used to see older stamps on mail from the United Nations in New York, but that has since changed.
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As far as I know, Canadian stamps from any period can be used for postage. That includes Newfoundland, which didn't join Canada until 1949. I have received at least one mailing from a dealer that was franked with Newfie stamps.
I don't know about the other pre-Confederation entities — Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, British Columbia, & Vancouver Island, Vancouver Island, and British Columbia, not that it would make sense to use any of those classic stamps as postage unless they were so badly damaged as to be useless for a collection. I once had a mint, low-value Canada Victoria Jubilee stamp issued in 1897; that someone had torn the stamp into narrow strips, back and forth, so that if you held it by one corner, it would stretch into a long zig-zag strip. I certainly didn't want it for my collection, so I used it for postage.
Bob
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Interesting... I just moved two damaged but unused 1932 Washington Bicentennial stamps from my collection to my "postage pile." 83-year old stamps as postage!
Also curious if and how the Forever stamps play into all of this.
Steve
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"Euro-using European countries I sometimes see older Euro-denominated stamps, especially from Germany."
Michael, does this statement mean that for Euro-using European countries, you cannot use their pre-Euro denominated stamps? For example, when I'm in Italy, may I use any lire denominated stamps to mail back home?
Peter
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"Also curious if and how the Forever stamps play into all of this."
if the collecting bug is as big today as it was in the 40s and 50s, the USPS will have one huge piper's bill to pay; but, alas and huzzah, there's no danger of that.
I still receive lots of the first forever stamps, remember the liberty bell, on incoming mail, so people are getting an extra dime's worth (issued in April 2007 for 39c, rising to 41c the next month).
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- Dave, the Liberty Bell stamp is still available from the Fulfillment Center, at least as of the USPS 2014 winter catalog.
There is a flood of older US stamps on the market as older and baby-boomer collectors are passing on. Dealers have so much of it that many are dumping them at nice discounts off face value. Newer stamps are not being collected in bulk like the older, and much lower priced, stamps were.
If you are selling on eBay, and you buy postage through eBay you get roughly a 10% to 15% discount off postage. You can buy older postage stamps from a dealer for at least 20% off face. That saves even more on postage. On packages, you can fit alot of 20 cent stamps to pay the current postage.
- The oldest stamp I ever used for postage was a 3 cent Columbian.
- Peter, I'm not sure. Germany invalidated the pre-Euro stamps, but it was reported here last year, by Kelly, I think, that pre-Euro stamps were still being used. I haven't seen pre-Euro stamps from Germany. I have relatives in Germany who send mail to my mother, as do some of her friends there. I guess you can try to use pre-Euro Italian stamps. All they can tell you is that they are no good and you have to use Euro-valued stamps. It might be more that the pre-Euro stamps are being tolerated, but I wouldn't know how they are being valued as regards to postage costs.
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All decimal stamps from Canada and the provinces / colonies are still valid for postage. The pence issues are not. That means you cannot use #1, the 3p beaver as postage. 
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"I have received mail from the UK that has stamps with KG VI."
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Per this article, 1 pound stamps from 1971 or earlier with QEII are still valid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamp_demonetization
Mike in NC / meostamps
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Doh! I forgot about the pound values.
In that same article, there is mention that Hong Kong stamps could be used after the 1997 handover to China 'for some years', since there were some in the hands of Hong Kong people.
The covers that I have seen where this extension was exceeded, show the stamp(s) struck through by pen and a framed handstamp with the words 'Stamp Off' applied. Which is a very strange choice of instructional marking.
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""I have received mail from the UK that has stamps with KG VI."
These were actually invalid. Like Canada, any decimal currency stamps can be used but anything with pounds, shillings and pence (£.s.d.), not."
Obviously there are plenty of postal workers around the world who don't know about invalid stamps.
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For most (if not all) pre-Euro currencies stamps are invalid,although some countries accepted them for some time.Dual value stamps as far as I know are still valid.
I have the impression that they were quite lax for a time provided that sufficient stamps were affixed.
The problem is of course that as currencies have moved up or down it is difficult to calculate the correct rate. Does one use current rate or the rate at time of converting to Euro? Hence with the passage of time the calculations are too difficult, and it easier to devalue the stamp.
I don't know whether it was allowed to exchange the old currency stamps at the post office for Euro stamps in the same way as bank notes.
Malcolm
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Take a look at this cover that I received today:
This sure does beg the question of is this valid use of the old Italian postage stamps in September 2017?
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I see 1971 on a couple of the stamps.
What is the oldest one?
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I think the airmail stamp (bottom right) is the oldest.
As far as I can see there are two euro currency stamps on this letter. They are probably enough for posting this letter. All the rest might just be there to create a colourful collage but they are still valid for postage. 1 Euro = 1,936 Lire and a letter from Italy to the USA costs 2.20 euros... time to do some counting.
See previous discussion
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Thanks, Jan. I tried to find that other discussion, but couldn't.
Any way...
Sally, Jan is correct. The air mail stamp at the lower right was issued in 1945.
The two stamps in Euro denominations equal 1.21 Euros.
The older stamps in Lire total 1,618.20 Lire, which is less than 1 Euro. Looks like the package was short-paid about 300 Lire.
It took exactly four weeks to arrive.
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I just looked at Ningpo's post about the "Lira". I was searching for "Lire" (misspelling on my part). That's why I couldn't find it.
It also looks like we bought from the same seller!
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here's the older discussion: https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=13498
in it, it was decided that Lira were still valid.
however, in this discussion, Malcolm says they are not, at least not in most member countries.
Lira are NOT valid as currency in Italy, although they may be exchanged for euros at the central bank.
David
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It may be that in individual countries they may still be valid. However the general rule is that stamps are demonetised when currencies are changed.Even in the UK when decimalisation was introduced only multiples of £1 were permitted after a brief changeover period - and when the 1/2p was withdrawn the stamps denominated in 1/2p were only valid in pairs.
As I said in my original post there is usually a period of grace for a time to allow "old" stamps to be used up.
It has to be said too that in some countries, some prices are quoted in euros and the pre-euro value.
I have seen property prices in Spain quoted in Euros and pesetas, but I have not seen anything else quoted in both currencies.
Bearing in mind the difficulties in calculating the conversion from lira to euro I am astonished that Italy still allows it. However sometimes I think Italy is a bit lukewarm about the Euro ( and recently about the EU in general ).
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
20 Jan 2015
11:11:24am
As I was applying postage to an envelope this morning, it suddenly struck me that I was using 80+ year old stamps to mail the letter! I do not remember the exact date from which US postage stamps remain valid, but I believe it is from the mid-1860s (Michael####, help me here). This made me wonder if there are any other postage issuing entities which have lengthy postal continuity and stability comparable to the US. I am guessing that Canada would be among the number, but due to currency conversions, changing governments, and other mitigating factors, I wonder how many others (and which ones they might be)?
All comments solicited and appreciated.
Bobby
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
the last time that US stamps were demonetized was August 1861 (from an April 1861 edict), all with the idea of denying confederate states the opportunity to redeem federal stamps for federal cash
there are some restrictions on more recent US stamps, such as on Special Delivery stamps. they are not technically demonetized, but there are restrictions.
There are also restrictions on pre-cancelled (or service inscribed) stamps, but they were issued with those restrictions, so their value and usage haven't changed
David
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12:04:21pm
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
The last I knew, Canadian stamps are all still valid for postage as are stamps from Newfoundland. The other provinces, the stamps are no longer valid.
I have received mail from the UK that has stamps with KG VI.
Non-Euro using European countries I have seen mail with older stamps from the past 10-20 years.
Euro-using European countries I sometimes see older Euro-denominated stamps, especially from Germany.
I have received mail from China (People's Republic) with stamps that were 10-20 years old.
Modern only from Caribbean Islands if commemoratives were used, slightly older if definitives were used (like going back to the previous definitive set).
You just don't see that much mail from anywhere with stamps used for postage anymore.
Friends who have visited countries in South America and Caribbean islands have brought me back a few older stamps that they said they bought at a local post office. So, the older stamps are out there. They just aren't being used.
I used to get alot of international mail. Not so much anymore. Those I listed above were from what I saw from the last couple of years. Now that I think about it, I have seen some older stamps on mail from Australia too.
In the past, I never saw older stamps used on mail from Russia, Belarus, Singapore, Thailand, South Africa, Mexico and Israel. I used to see older stamps on mail from the United Nations in New York, but that has since changed.
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
As far as I know, Canadian stamps from any period can be used for postage. That includes Newfoundland, which didn't join Canada until 1949. I have received at least one mailing from a dealer that was franked with Newfie stamps.
I don't know about the other pre-Confederation entities — Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, British Columbia, & Vancouver Island, Vancouver Island, and British Columbia, not that it would make sense to use any of those classic stamps as postage unless they were so badly damaged as to be useless for a collection. I once had a mint, low-value Canada Victoria Jubilee stamp issued in 1897; that someone had torn the stamp into narrow strips, back and forth, so that if you held it by one corner, it would stretch into a long zig-zag strip. I certainly didn't want it for my collection, so I used it for postage.
Bob
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
Interesting... I just moved two damaged but unused 1932 Washington Bicentennial stamps from my collection to my "postage pile." 83-year old stamps as postage!
Also curious if and how the Forever stamps play into all of this.
Steve
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01:08:43pm
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
"Euro-using European countries I sometimes see older Euro-denominated stamps, especially from Germany."
Michael, does this statement mean that for Euro-using European countries, you cannot use their pre-Euro denominated stamps? For example, when I'm in Italy, may I use any lire denominated stamps to mail back home?
Peter
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
"Also curious if and how the Forever stamps play into all of this."
if the collecting bug is as big today as it was in the 40s and 50s, the USPS will have one huge piper's bill to pay; but, alas and huzzah, there's no danger of that.
I still receive lots of the first forever stamps, remember the liberty bell, on incoming mail, so people are getting an extra dime's worth (issued in April 2007 for 39c, rising to 41c the next month).
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01:56:02pm
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
- Dave, the Liberty Bell stamp is still available from the Fulfillment Center, at least as of the USPS 2014 winter catalog.
There is a flood of older US stamps on the market as older and baby-boomer collectors are passing on. Dealers have so much of it that many are dumping them at nice discounts off face value. Newer stamps are not being collected in bulk like the older, and much lower priced, stamps were.
If you are selling on eBay, and you buy postage through eBay you get roughly a 10% to 15% discount off postage. You can buy older postage stamps from a dealer for at least 20% off face. That saves even more on postage. On packages, you can fit alot of 20 cent stamps to pay the current postage.
- The oldest stamp I ever used for postage was a 3 cent Columbian.
- Peter, I'm not sure. Germany invalidated the pre-Euro stamps, but it was reported here last year, by Kelly, I think, that pre-Euro stamps were still being used. I haven't seen pre-Euro stamps from Germany. I have relatives in Germany who send mail to my mother, as do some of her friends there. I guess you can try to use pre-Euro Italian stamps. All they can tell you is that they are no good and you have to use Euro-valued stamps. It might be more that the pre-Euro stamps are being tolerated, but I wouldn't know how they are being valued as regards to postage costs.
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
All decimal stamps from Canada and the provinces / colonies are still valid for postage. The pence issues are not. That means you cannot use #1, the 3p beaver as postage.
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
"I have received mail from the UK that has stamps with KG VI."
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
Per this article, 1 pound stamps from 1971 or earlier with QEII are still valid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamp_demonetization
Mike in NC / meostamps
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
Doh! I forgot about the pound values.
In that same article, there is mention that Hong Kong stamps could be used after the 1997 handover to China 'for some years', since there were some in the hands of Hong Kong people.
The covers that I have seen where this extension was exceeded, show the stamp(s) struck through by pen and a framed handstamp with the words 'Stamp Off' applied. Which is a very strange choice of instructional marking.
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11:14:25pm
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
""I have received mail from the UK that has stamps with KG VI."
These were actually invalid. Like Canada, any decimal currency stamps can be used but anything with pounds, shillings and pence (£.s.d.), not."
Obviously there are plenty of postal workers around the world who don't know about invalid stamps.
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07:26:39am
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
For most (if not all) pre-Euro currencies stamps are invalid,although some countries accepted them for some time.Dual value stamps as far as I know are still valid.
I have the impression that they were quite lax for a time provided that sufficient stamps were affixed.
The problem is of course that as currencies have moved up or down it is difficult to calculate the correct rate. Does one use current rate or the rate at time of converting to Euro? Hence with the passage of time the calculations are too difficult, and it easier to devalue the stamp.
I don't know whether it was allowed to exchange the old currency stamps at the post office for Euro stamps in the same way as bank notes.
Malcolm
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11:48:25pm
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
Take a look at this cover that I received today:
This sure does beg the question of is this valid use of the old Italian postage stamps in September 2017?
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
I see 1971 on a couple of the stamps.
What is the oldest one?
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Approvals
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
I think the airmail stamp (bottom right) is the oldest.
As far as I can see there are two euro currency stamps on this letter. They are probably enough for posting this letter. All the rest might just be there to create a colourful collage but they are still valid for postage. 1 Euro = 1,936 Lire and a letter from Italy to the USA costs 2.20 euros... time to do some counting.
See previous discussion
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11:48:19am
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
Thanks, Jan. I tried to find that other discussion, but couldn't.
Any way...
Sally, Jan is correct. The air mail stamp at the lower right was issued in 1945.
The two stamps in Euro denominations equal 1.21 Euros.
The older stamps in Lire total 1,618.20 Lire, which is less than 1 Euro. Looks like the package was short-paid about 300 Lire.
It took exactly four weeks to arrive.
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11:51:36am
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
I just looked at Ningpo's post about the "Lira". I was searching for "Lire" (misspelling on my part). That's why I couldn't find it.
It also looks like we bought from the same seller!
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re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
here's the older discussion: https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=13498
in it, it was decided that Lira were still valid.
however, in this discussion, Malcolm says they are not, at least not in most member countries.
Lira are NOT valid as currency in Italy, although they may be exchanged for euros at the central bank.
David
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03:07:38pm
re: Length of time postage stamps valid from date of issue in different countries
It may be that in individual countries they may still be valid. However the general rule is that stamps are demonetised when currencies are changed.Even in the UK when decimalisation was introduced only multiples of £1 were permitted after a brief changeover period - and when the 1/2p was withdrawn the stamps denominated in 1/2p were only valid in pairs.
As I said in my original post there is usually a period of grace for a time to allow "old" stamps to be used up.
It has to be said too that in some countries, some prices are quoted in euros and the pre-euro value.
I have seen property prices in Spain quoted in Euros and pesetas, but I have not seen anything else quoted in both currencies.
Bearing in mind the difficulties in calculating the conversion from lira to euro I am astonished that Italy still allows it. However sometimes I think Italy is a bit lukewarm about the Euro ( and recently about the EU in general ).
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