Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Now here are the requirements for a Boy Scouts of America Stamp Collecting Merit Badge:
"Requirements
1. Do the following:
a. Discuss how you can better understand people, places, institutions, history, and geography as a result of collecting stamps.
b. Briefly describe some aspects of the history, growth, and development of the United States postal system. Tell how it is different from postal systems in other countries.
2. Define topical stamp collecting. Name and describe three other types of stamp collections.
1. Show at least ONE example of each of the following:
a. Perforated and imperforate stamps
b. Mint and used stamps
c. Sheet, booklet, and coil stamps
d. Numbers on plate block, booklet, or coil, or marginal markings
e. Overprint and surcharge
f. Metered mail
g. Definitive, commemorative, semipostal, and airmail stamps
h. Cancellation and postmark
i. First day cover
j. Postal stationery (aerogramme, stamped envelope, and postal card)
4. Do the following:
a. Demonstrate the use of ONE standard catalog for several different stamp issues. Explain why catalog value can vary from the corresponding purchase price.
b. Explain the meaning of the term condition as used to describe a stamp. Show examples that illustrate the different factors that affect a stamp's value.
5. Demonstrate the use of at least THREE of the following stamp collector's tools:
a. Stamp tongs
b. Water and tray
c. Magnifiers
d. Hinges and stamp mounts
e. Perforation gauge
f. Glassine envelopes and cover sleeves
g. Watermark fluid
6. Do the following:
a. Show a stamp album and how to mount stamps with or without hinges. Show at least ONE page that displays several stamps.
b. Discuss at least THREE ways you can help to preserve stamps, covers, and albums in first-class condition.
7. Do at least TWO of the following:
a. Design a stamp, cancellation, or cachet.
b. Visit a post office, stamp club, or stamp show with an experienced collector. Explain what you saw and learned.
c. Write a review of an interesting article from a stamp newspaper, magazine, book, or website (with your parent's permission).
d. Research and report on a famous stamp-related personality or the history behind a particular stamp.
e. Describe the steps taken to produce a stamp. Include the methods of printing, types of paper, perforation styles, and how they are gummed.
f. Prepare a two- to three-page display involving stamps. Using ingenuity, as well as clippings, drawings, etc., tell a story about the stamps and how they relate to history, geography, or a favorite topic of yours.
8. Mount and show, in a purchased or homemade album, ONE of the following:
a. A collection of 250 or more different stamps from at least 15 countries.
b. A collection of a stamp from each of 50 different countries, mounted on maps to show the location of each.
c. A collection of 100 or more different stamps from either one country or a group of closely related countries.
d. A collection of 75 or more different stamps on a single topic. (Some interesting topics are: Scouting, birds, insects, the Olympics, sports, flowers, animals, ships, holidays, trains, famous people, space, and medicine.) Stamps may be from different countries.
e. A collection of postal items discovered in your mail by monitoring it over a period of 30 days. Include at least five different types listed in requirement 3."
I remember well the Stamp Collecting Merit Badge test I took in the early 1950s. The postmaster at Fort Bayard, New Mexico administered it. I was proud to have passed it — with flying colours, I might add!
Here's what the current stamp collector's merit badge looks like; it's very similar to the one I earned:
More details about my merit badge test are included in my web page, Remembering Fort Bayard….
Members of Stamporama know well the educational values of stamp collecting, not to mention its recreational values. I used stamps with primary students to teach various skills in numeration, colour discrimination, measurement, and reading comprehension. We played games with stamps which emphasized development of fine motor skills. And, of course, history and geography were naturally a component of the lessons, along with vocabulary development and even appreciation of intrinsic and extrinsic values. It's hard to imagine that Canadian Cub Scouts learn much of anything by "earning" a Canadian Collector's Badge.
Now here's a question: How many members of Stamporama, right now, could pass the BSA Stamp Collecting Merit Badge test? I'm not sure I could answer some of those questions!
Bob
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Keep in mind you're comparing two different age groups. Merit badges are for boys aged 11 to 17.
Younger US Scouts have easier requirements too. For example, Bears (3rd-graders) don't have a collecting badge, but can use the "Collecting Things" electives to complete their Bear badge or arrow points.
"22. COLLECTING THINGS
a. Start a stamp collection. You can get information about stamp collecting at any U.S. post office.
b. Mount and display a collection of emblems, coins, or other items to show at a pack meeting. This can be any kind of collection. Every time you show a different kind of collection, it counts as one requirement.
c. Start your own library. Keep your own books and pamphlets in order by subject. List the title, author, and subject of each on an index card and keep the cards in a file box, or use a computer program to store the information."
Chris
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Years ago, when I was an Assistant Scout Master in a Boy Scout Troop, I could not get one single scout interested in the stamp collecting merit badge. I found several who were interested in the railroading merit badge, but not one completed it.
The requirements for the badges are out of date, and should be revised. The ways and means of stamp collecting and railroading (including the modeling aspect) have dramatically changed since those requirements were written probably 50 or so years ago.
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Sometimes I feel like I've been misplaced in time! It's hard to imagine, but it's been 25 years since I last sponsored a school stamp club. That was in a large high school in Prince George, BC. It was a small group of a dozen or maybe 15 students, but they were enthusiastic. I'd also had stamp clubs in my two previous schools. The students were generally "misfits" in that they weren't the most popular students, or the best students. Nor were they members of school athletic teams or other clubs. Stamp collecting obviously met some of their needs, but the era of youth collectors was coming to an end.
Between 2001 and 2009, I was heavily involved in organizing VANPEX (VANcouver Philatelic Exhibition). I can recall only a dozen or so exhibits mounted by young people. One was a member of our club for a year before he disappeared, and two were members of the youth branch of the Edmonton Stamp Club, which thrived under the leadership of John Powell, and came to an abrupt end when John died in 1995. All of the other youth exhibitors were from a stamp club in Calcutta.
Charles Verge, at the time the president of the American Association of Philatelic Exhibitors, was chief judge at one VANPEX in the mid-1990s. He was also keynote speaker at our banquet. One thing he said has stuck with me. To paraphrase: "Forget trying to get youth involved in collecting. It's not going to happen. Baby Boomers, many of whom collected stamps when they were young, are the candidates most likely to become involved in collecting in retirement." I think he was right. The great majority of new members of my own stamp club, the BC Philatelic Society, are retired men and some women.
Bob
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Interesting that they direct kids to "any US Post Office" for information about stamp collecting. None of the post offices around me could/would be any help at all....
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"Forget trying to get youth involved in collecting. It's not going to happen."
As much as I wish otherwise, I have to agree. Postage stamps are no longer part of popular culture. Even the Post Office doesn't use postage stamps unless specifically requested!
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We talk about getting kids involved today, but let's look back 30 years. Even in 1985, I was the only kid in the entire school who showed interest in the Ben Franklin stamp club, sponsored by our philatelist Principal. Yes, I got first (and last) pick at the club mixtures, so that was cool. But try as I did, none of my friends were ever interested.
I've never felt that the Gen X to present generation had a real connection to stamps or stamp collecting. The families with children and some disposable income in the 1950s-60s (Baby to late Baby boomers) were those encouraging and getting their kids hooked.
I've seen many childhood collections started by baby boomer kids, and there is a definite influence from stamp collecting parents - those active in the 30s and 40s. Kids today do not have the familial mentoring opportunities, because the parents themselves do not know stamps.
If my children show interest in what Daddy is doing, I will certainly spend the time to encourage them. I didn't become geography champ at Madison County High by playing Nintendo. 
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I've had the opportunity to monitor children's collecting fads in the UK for a few decades now, and my observations accord broadly with those noted above. I'm talking about children up to the age of 11 only.
Playground 'crazes' come and go (and reappear) but always seem based upon what is commercially available and easily acquired. Trading cards have been popular for at least twenty years and very possibly more. Like stamps, they are potentially information-heavy and can be used not only to trade but also to play basic trading games (thus periodically causing friction when played 'for keeps'). Like stamp packets of yore, they are bought at easily-accessible outlets, and also (I regret to say) like stamps an artificial demand is created by withholding or limiting certain 'issues'. Their subjects are most popularly football or fantasy figures, and they are seldom collected by girls. Attempts to appeal to that market by featuring supposedly 'girly' subjects (fairy, horse) invariably fail.
Other collectibles have included 'pogs', small circular patterned discs, information-free but also in recognisable sets or series from which single items are limited. They were used for play (I forget exactly how) and were popular with both girls and boys.
'Gogos' were small, plastic, coloured variform shapes, obviously akin to knucklebones, which were collected randomly and could be played by tossing against a wall to see which one remained closest to it. No gender bias here, either.
'Loombands' are a recent craze, coloured rubber bands woven together and sold as wrist bracelets; alternatively instructions or kits can be bought from which to create your own. I have not seen boys collect these in any great numbers.
What can we deduce from this? The urge to collect is clearly still there, and is exploited by canny operators. Trading cards come with their own albums, and completism is encouraged. They resemble stamps in some respects, and have (I suggest) taken over from them: they have the advantage that they can be played as well as traded. They are sturdy enough to be used outdoors, whereas stamp-collecting is an indoor pursuit. At junior school in the UK, children are not usually allowed indoors in their own time.
I do not know how much information is retained from all that appears on trading cards: it is specific information, unlike that of a stamp, which had to be researched (with the help, for example, of a Monty Wedd, a well-informed parent, or that obsolete resource, a children's encyclopedia).
I know of few children who have collected stamps, despite encouragement to do so at various times in my career. Oddly enough, the two I remember best were both girls, one to whom I bequeathed my 'Movaleaf' springback stamp album, the other whose mother had taken up the hobby. I ran a stamp club after school in the 1990s, but gave it up after a couple of terms when it became obvious that parents were using it as a free baby-sitting service. In my last year of teaching (in the final couple of weeks) I gave away several hundred stamps to the children in my class in an effort to drum up interest; this was fleetingly successful (when I encountered two of them at Stampex!), but it was noticeable that stamps were of interest only in class time, never at playtimes. I had often used stamps in history or geography lessons to illustrate people or places.
Children make their own rules; adults can suggest or encourage but they cannot force the issue. Maybe in decades to come some of those I taught will come back, in their middle- or old-age, to stamp-collecting. I hope so, but I do not think it will ever return as the popular children's hobby it once was.
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Can I be controversial? ( I usually am !!)
The barrier to kids collecting stamps is commitment ! It requires systematic,consistent and long term application to pursue stamp collecting to a satisfactory or meaningful conclusion.Todays social mores do not encourage these attributes to anything except education ( formal) or employment. Even meaningful application to sports are practiced by a minority ( except as spectators).
We have to accept, regrettably, that collecting in general only occurs to people if they either are materially satisfied, or have reached a stage that life in general, and materialism in particular are no longer sufficient for their needs.
This means than from now and into the future stamp collecting will be an adult occupation.The best we can due is to try to instil such basic curiosity, that when the adult reaches the state I mention above, stamp collecting will be his choice of activity
Malcolm
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I think it's a matter of exposure. Exposing children to different things will help to encourage their imaginations. Letting them "play" with stamps for a few minutes when they are young (don't burn them out by making them sit at a desk for hours like we do working on our collections) may help kindle that fire.
Show them how the hobby excites you. They may catch that enthusiasm too. Don't be judgmental towards them regarding how they collect stamps. Let them be. Give them small tips on how to collect, but let them find their way the way they want to collect. I'm trying to figure out why my 7 year old grandson wants to fill an entire stock book full of the 4 cent purple Lincoln stamp. He likes Lincoln, he says. So be it.
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" I'm trying to figure out why my 7 year old grandson wants to fill an entire stock book full of the 4 cent purple Lincoln stamp. He likes Lincoln, he says. So be it."
I have stock books full of 1 cent green Franklins... I like Franklin, so be it!
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Well, ( 7 year old grandson wants to fill an entire stock book full of the 4 cent purple Lincoln stamp) If they had been girlie pink I would have started worrying. Purple is good, one of the American honours is a Purple Heart is it not.
I seem to recall back in the late 50's collecting masses of 3d Wildings for no reason other than to fill pages. It was not part of my actual collection, just an accumulation.
Vic
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05:41:16pm
Do the girl scouts have a stamp collecting badge? Or do they just have ones for selling thin mints. (THESE DO NOT MAKE YOU THIN) 
I probably could pass the boy scout badge test, especially the ones where you can pick 3 out of 8
I was one of those outcast kids, ignored by other kids and generally thought to be weird. (Still a weirdo, but proud of it now!) Never had much of an interest in video games and took up "old fashioned" hobbies. Needlework, reading and stamp collecting. I'm really grateful I was not popular, and never ran with the crowd. I think that it being an outcast allowed for developing interests that were truly my own and uninfluenced but what others did or thought.
Guthrum! I remember pogs! Never had any though, but some of the neighbors did.
Josh sits and looks at stamps with me. He likes cars and planes of course. Right now he is really big on collecting sports cards. I think that is a good hobby for an almost 8 year old, and could transition nicely to also collecting stamps. 
When asked what he wanted for his birthday he said. "Baseball Cards and Legos" So grateful he didn't want video games. How many parents can say that their kid didn't want video games for their birthday?
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Here is a link to the Boy Scout requirements to earn the stamp collecting merit badge:
Boy Scout stamp collecting merit badge
How many stamp collectors do you think could earn this badge?
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Here is a copy of my BSA Stamp Collecting Merit Badge that I earned in the early 1960s.
As I remember it, even then there was some confusion about what a scout had to do in order to qualify for this badge. I had a Stamp Collecting Merit Badge booklet; I don’t recall where I got it, but I dutifully used its check list to ensure that I had met all of the requirements. I rode my bike to the examiners house one afternoon after school, with my collection and whatever else was need in my back pack. I did not, however, bring along that booklet.
After a bit of small talk, the examiner pulled out his own book of merit badge requirements. His was a thick book that seemed to have contained the requirements for every merit badge offered by the BSA. Needless to say, the list of requirements he had were completely different than the ones I had followed. He was quite gracious about it, allowing me to ride back home to get the aforementioned Stamp Collecting Merit Badge booklet that I used. After returning to his home, I had a very successful session and as you can see from the picture, was successful in every respect.
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I tried to get the merit badges for stamp collecting and model railroading. They denied me the badges saying that since I was already involved with the hobbies I was disqualified. The badges were to be earned "from scratch". I quit the Boy Scouts.
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Michael,
That just seems wrong. I was a stamp collector well before I was a boy scout. The idea was to articulate a certain level of expertise in the subject matter, not to make converts of scouts that were clueless about the hobby.
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Well, the idea behind merit badges was/is to expose boys to new vocations and to introduce them to members of their community who are active in those fields. If you're already quite proficient in the subject, then you earn nothing of value in completing that badge except for a tiny round piece of cloth.
There is nothing (except leaders who misunderstand) preventing boys from earning badges they are already proficient in (I got my high school teachers to sign off many badges that had been properly covered in class myself), but philosophically their time would be better spent learning something new.
Chris
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10:55:31pm
Why shouldn't a person get a merit badge for something they already are doing. It is merely symbolic of having learned about the subject. Does it matter if you did the learning before or during scouting?
It is like punishing someone for learning on their own initiative rather then rewarding them.
IMHO
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The denial of a stamp collecting merit badge for Michael (who clearly was so psychologically damaged that he has to remain in Texas!) -- 
-- seems to have reflected the idea that philately consists of a finite body of knowledge, whereas any collector with even modest experience knows that he or she will never, ever learn everything that there is to learn about our hobby. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, philately is fraught with known unknowns. Or is that unknown unknowns. unknown knowns? Who knows? 
Bob
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I was very active when growing up. I was involved in sports in school, I bicycled all over the place, hiked long distances with friends, family had a boat that we took up and down the Hudson River and beyond, swimming, etc. Plenty of merit badges that I had proficiency in, but wasn't allowed to get. Boy Scouts to me was a waste of time.
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I will never understand rules whose intent (or effect) is to diminish self-regard and success. It there isn't room for honoring an achievement accomplished outside an existing tent, the tent is the wrong size or configuration.
Michael, I hereby bequeath you the SOR merit badge, first class, for mastery of things philatelic. I'll need one of our more talented artists to create the badge itself, but it is yours no matter the form.
Bob, I know that Canadian tongue of yours is decidedly in cheek about all things Rumsfeldian, but, for others, the big Rummy used the unknown unknowns to explain away a myriad of failures he helped to create by closing his ears to those who knew what was known and tried to explain it to him. They were military men talking about military matters, and the best of them got the boot for their troubles. Soon their names and counsel were forgotton, and what had been known, by some, became unknown to Rummy. Generals Zinni and Shinseki, I hereby bequeath unto you the SOR merit badge, first class, for speaking truth to power, whose design includes three monkies with most orifices closed.
David, who never was a boy scout
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09:42:01am
Doubt I would have qualified for Canadian scouting, dumbed down or smartened-up. My membership in "cub scouts" was terminated when I was 10 for failure to recognize the authority of my den mother (also my cousin - boy did I get a whipping for that one). Maybe that is why I starting collecting stamps shortly thereafter; no one to answer to, boss me around or make unreasonable demands upon my time.
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Perhaps the difference between my experience and Michael’s (and others) was either time or place. I also knew how to swim before I earned my swimming merit badge, etc.
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I obviously cannot speak for Canadian or US scouting, But I was involved, as a Cub Scout,Scout,Senior Scout ( somewhat similar to the US Explorer ) and some 20 years as an adult (some if this in a professional capacity).
The UK name for Merit Badge is Proficiency Badge. As the name implies this is recognition of a defined level of Proficiency in a given subject. This level is made more comprehensive in each stage of the age ranges- it is not a given that this should be started from scratch,and indeed in some subjects,particularly in the older age ranges, it is unlikely the 3 years in the age group would allow the level of proficiency to be achieved from scratch. For most subjects earned in the Senior section it was a requirement to have ( or to reach ) the level of the previous age-range badge on the same subject in addition to the higher expertise of the older age-range.
The problem with starting from scratch is that it encourages a young person to take up an activity purely to earn the badge and thus become a number collector. That is not the object of the exercise - it is aiming to produce a well-rounded individual. This is why the higher cumulative scouting awards required the earning some of a number of "grouped" badges so that only a limited number of hobby-based subjects were permitted together with a number of "technical(scouting skills)" and "service" awards. Do we really want a holder of a previously-gained Red Cross certificate to be denied a First Aid award?-particularly when the said award is compulsory for the highest aweard in UK Scouting(Queen's Scout).
Note these comments apply to the time I was involved in Scouts from the 1960s to the early 1990s, but despite modernisation I doubt that the principles have changed much.
Malcolm
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For some time I've been aware that Boy Scouts in Canada do not offer a Stamp Collecting Merit Badge per se, but a "Collector Badge". In fact, the Collector Badge is available only to the youngest scouts, the Cub Scouts, ages 8 - 10. Here are the requirements, which apparently don't require any "merit" at all!:
Now here are the requirements for a Boy Scouts of America Stamp Collecting Merit Badge:
"Requirements
1. Do the following:
a. Discuss how you can better understand people, places, institutions, history, and geography as a result of collecting stamps.
b. Briefly describe some aspects of the history, growth, and development of the United States postal system. Tell how it is different from postal systems in other countries.
2. Define topical stamp collecting. Name and describe three other types of stamp collections.
1. Show at least ONE example of each of the following:
a. Perforated and imperforate stamps
b. Mint and used stamps
c. Sheet, booklet, and coil stamps
d. Numbers on plate block, booklet, or coil, or marginal markings
e. Overprint and surcharge
f. Metered mail
g. Definitive, commemorative, semipostal, and airmail stamps
h. Cancellation and postmark
i. First day cover
j. Postal stationery (aerogramme, stamped envelope, and postal card)
4. Do the following:
a. Demonstrate the use of ONE standard catalog for several different stamp issues. Explain why catalog value can vary from the corresponding purchase price.
b. Explain the meaning of the term condition as used to describe a stamp. Show examples that illustrate the different factors that affect a stamp's value.
5. Demonstrate the use of at least THREE of the following stamp collector's tools:
a. Stamp tongs
b. Water and tray
c. Magnifiers
d. Hinges and stamp mounts
e. Perforation gauge
f. Glassine envelopes and cover sleeves
g. Watermark fluid
6. Do the following:
a. Show a stamp album and how to mount stamps with or without hinges. Show at least ONE page that displays several stamps.
b. Discuss at least THREE ways you can help to preserve stamps, covers, and albums in first-class condition.
7. Do at least TWO of the following:
a. Design a stamp, cancellation, or cachet.
b. Visit a post office, stamp club, or stamp show with an experienced collector. Explain what you saw and learned.
c. Write a review of an interesting article from a stamp newspaper, magazine, book, or website (with your parent's permission).
d. Research and report on a famous stamp-related personality or the history behind a particular stamp.
e. Describe the steps taken to produce a stamp. Include the methods of printing, types of paper, perforation styles, and how they are gummed.
f. Prepare a two- to three-page display involving stamps. Using ingenuity, as well as clippings, drawings, etc., tell a story about the stamps and how they relate to history, geography, or a favorite topic of yours.
8. Mount and show, in a purchased or homemade album, ONE of the following:
a. A collection of 250 or more different stamps from at least 15 countries.
b. A collection of a stamp from each of 50 different countries, mounted on maps to show the location of each.
c. A collection of 100 or more different stamps from either one country or a group of closely related countries.
d. A collection of 75 or more different stamps on a single topic. (Some interesting topics are: Scouting, birds, insects, the Olympics, sports, flowers, animals, ships, holidays, trains, famous people, space, and medicine.) Stamps may be from different countries.
e. A collection of postal items discovered in your mail by monitoring it over a period of 30 days. Include at least five different types listed in requirement 3."
I remember well the Stamp Collecting Merit Badge test I took in the early 1950s. The postmaster at Fort Bayard, New Mexico administered it. I was proud to have passed it — with flying colours, I might add!
Here's what the current stamp collector's merit badge looks like; it's very similar to the one I earned:
More details about my merit badge test are included in my web page, Remembering Fort Bayard….
Members of Stamporama know well the educational values of stamp collecting, not to mention its recreational values. I used stamps with primary students to teach various skills in numeration, colour discrimination, measurement, and reading comprehension. We played games with stamps which emphasized development of fine motor skills. And, of course, history and geography were naturally a component of the lessons, along with vocabulary development and even appreciation of intrinsic and extrinsic values. It's hard to imagine that Canadian Cub Scouts learn much of anything by "earning" a Canadian Collector's Badge.
Now here's a question: How many members of Stamporama, right now, could pass the BSA Stamp Collecting Merit Badge test? I'm not sure I could answer some of those questions!
Bob
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Keep in mind you're comparing two different age groups. Merit badges are for boys aged 11 to 17.
Younger US Scouts have easier requirements too. For example, Bears (3rd-graders) don't have a collecting badge, but can use the "Collecting Things" electives to complete their Bear badge or arrow points.
"22. COLLECTING THINGS
a. Start a stamp collection. You can get information about stamp collecting at any U.S. post office.
b. Mount and display a collection of emblems, coins, or other items to show at a pack meeting. This can be any kind of collection. Every time you show a different kind of collection, it counts as one requirement.
c. Start your own library. Keep your own books and pamphlets in order by subject. List the title, author, and subject of each on an index card and keep the cards in a file box, or use a computer program to store the information."
Chris
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09:41:13pm
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Years ago, when I was an Assistant Scout Master in a Boy Scout Troop, I could not get one single scout interested in the stamp collecting merit badge. I found several who were interested in the railroading merit badge, but not one completed it.
The requirements for the badges are out of date, and should be revised. The ways and means of stamp collecting and railroading (including the modeling aspect) have dramatically changed since those requirements were written probably 50 or so years ago.
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Sometimes I feel like I've been misplaced in time! It's hard to imagine, but it's been 25 years since I last sponsored a school stamp club. That was in a large high school in Prince George, BC. It was a small group of a dozen or maybe 15 students, but they were enthusiastic. I'd also had stamp clubs in my two previous schools. The students were generally "misfits" in that they weren't the most popular students, or the best students. Nor were they members of school athletic teams or other clubs. Stamp collecting obviously met some of their needs, but the era of youth collectors was coming to an end.
Between 2001 and 2009, I was heavily involved in organizing VANPEX (VANcouver Philatelic Exhibition). I can recall only a dozen or so exhibits mounted by young people. One was a member of our club for a year before he disappeared, and two were members of the youth branch of the Edmonton Stamp Club, which thrived under the leadership of John Powell, and came to an abrupt end when John died in 1995. All of the other youth exhibitors were from a stamp club in Calcutta.
Charles Verge, at the time the president of the American Association of Philatelic Exhibitors, was chief judge at one VANPEX in the mid-1990s. He was also keynote speaker at our banquet. One thing he said has stuck with me. To paraphrase: "Forget trying to get youth involved in collecting. It's not going to happen. Baby Boomers, many of whom collected stamps when they were young, are the candidates most likely to become involved in collecting in retirement." I think he was right. The great majority of new members of my own stamp club, the BC Philatelic Society, are retired men and some women.
Bob
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Interesting that they direct kids to "any US Post Office" for information about stamp collecting. None of the post offices around me could/would be any help at all....
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
"Forget trying to get youth involved in collecting. It's not going to happen."
As much as I wish otherwise, I have to agree. Postage stamps are no longer part of popular culture. Even the Post Office doesn't use postage stamps unless specifically requested!
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
We talk about getting kids involved today, but let's look back 30 years. Even in 1985, I was the only kid in the entire school who showed interest in the Ben Franklin stamp club, sponsored by our philatelist Principal. Yes, I got first (and last) pick at the club mixtures, so that was cool. But try as I did, none of my friends were ever interested.
I've never felt that the Gen X to present generation had a real connection to stamps or stamp collecting. The families with children and some disposable income in the 1950s-60s (Baby to late Baby boomers) were those encouraging and getting their kids hooked.
I've seen many childhood collections started by baby boomer kids, and there is a definite influence from stamp collecting parents - those active in the 30s and 40s. Kids today do not have the familial mentoring opportunities, because the parents themselves do not know stamps.
If my children show interest in what Daddy is doing, I will certainly spend the time to encourage them. I didn't become geography champ at Madison County High by playing Nintendo.
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
I've had the opportunity to monitor children's collecting fads in the UK for a few decades now, and my observations accord broadly with those noted above. I'm talking about children up to the age of 11 only.
Playground 'crazes' come and go (and reappear) but always seem based upon what is commercially available and easily acquired. Trading cards have been popular for at least twenty years and very possibly more. Like stamps, they are potentially information-heavy and can be used not only to trade but also to play basic trading games (thus periodically causing friction when played 'for keeps'). Like stamp packets of yore, they are bought at easily-accessible outlets, and also (I regret to say) like stamps an artificial demand is created by withholding or limiting certain 'issues'. Their subjects are most popularly football or fantasy figures, and they are seldom collected by girls. Attempts to appeal to that market by featuring supposedly 'girly' subjects (fairy, horse) invariably fail.
Other collectibles have included 'pogs', small circular patterned discs, information-free but also in recognisable sets or series from which single items are limited. They were used for play (I forget exactly how) and were popular with both girls and boys.
'Gogos' were small, plastic, coloured variform shapes, obviously akin to knucklebones, which were collected randomly and could be played by tossing against a wall to see which one remained closest to it. No gender bias here, either.
'Loombands' are a recent craze, coloured rubber bands woven together and sold as wrist bracelets; alternatively instructions or kits can be bought from which to create your own. I have not seen boys collect these in any great numbers.
What can we deduce from this? The urge to collect is clearly still there, and is exploited by canny operators. Trading cards come with their own albums, and completism is encouraged. They resemble stamps in some respects, and have (I suggest) taken over from them: they have the advantage that they can be played as well as traded. They are sturdy enough to be used outdoors, whereas stamp-collecting is an indoor pursuit. At junior school in the UK, children are not usually allowed indoors in their own time.
I do not know how much information is retained from all that appears on trading cards: it is specific information, unlike that of a stamp, which had to be researched (with the help, for example, of a Monty Wedd, a well-informed parent, or that obsolete resource, a children's encyclopedia).
I know of few children who have collected stamps, despite encouragement to do so at various times in my career. Oddly enough, the two I remember best were both girls, one to whom I bequeathed my 'Movaleaf' springback stamp album, the other whose mother had taken up the hobby. I ran a stamp club after school in the 1990s, but gave it up after a couple of terms when it became obvious that parents were using it as a free baby-sitting service. In my last year of teaching (in the final couple of weeks) I gave away several hundred stamps to the children in my class in an effort to drum up interest; this was fleetingly successful (when I encountered two of them at Stampex!), but it was noticeable that stamps were of interest only in class time, never at playtimes. I had often used stamps in history or geography lessons to illustrate people or places.
Children make their own rules; adults can suggest or encourage but they cannot force the issue. Maybe in decades to come some of those I taught will come back, in their middle- or old-age, to stamp-collecting. I hope so, but I do not think it will ever return as the popular children's hobby it once was.
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05:32:50am
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Can I be controversial? ( I usually am !!)
The barrier to kids collecting stamps is commitment ! It requires systematic,consistent and long term application to pursue stamp collecting to a satisfactory or meaningful conclusion.Todays social mores do not encourage these attributes to anything except education ( formal) or employment. Even meaningful application to sports are practiced by a minority ( except as spectators).
We have to accept, regrettably, that collecting in general only occurs to people if they either are materially satisfied, or have reached a stage that life in general, and materialism in particular are no longer sufficient for their needs.
This means than from now and into the future stamp collecting will be an adult occupation.The best we can due is to try to instil such basic curiosity, that when the adult reaches the state I mention above, stamp collecting will be his choice of activity
Malcolm
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01:31:26pm
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
I think it's a matter of exposure. Exposing children to different things will help to encourage their imaginations. Letting them "play" with stamps for a few minutes when they are young (don't burn them out by making them sit at a desk for hours like we do working on our collections) may help kindle that fire.
Show them how the hobby excites you. They may catch that enthusiasm too. Don't be judgmental towards them regarding how they collect stamps. Let them be. Give them small tips on how to collect, but let them find their way the way they want to collect. I'm trying to figure out why my 7 year old grandson wants to fill an entire stock book full of the 4 cent purple Lincoln stamp. He likes Lincoln, he says. So be it.
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
" I'm trying to figure out why my 7 year old grandson wants to fill an entire stock book full of the 4 cent purple Lincoln stamp. He likes Lincoln, he says. So be it."
I have stock books full of 1 cent green Franklins... I like Franklin, so be it!
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Well, ( 7 year old grandson wants to fill an entire stock book full of the 4 cent purple Lincoln stamp) If they had been girlie pink I would have started worrying. Purple is good, one of the American honours is a Purple Heart is it not.
I seem to recall back in the late 50's collecting masses of 3d Wildings for no reason other than to fill pages. It was not part of my actual collection, just an accumulation.
Vic
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Wanting to bring the joy of stamp collecting to younger generations
31 May 2015
05:41:16pm
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Do the girl scouts have a stamp collecting badge? Or do they just have ones for selling thin mints. (THESE DO NOT MAKE YOU THIN)
I probably could pass the boy scout badge test, especially the ones where you can pick 3 out of 8
I was one of those outcast kids, ignored by other kids and generally thought to be weird. (Still a weirdo, but proud of it now!) Never had much of an interest in video games and took up "old fashioned" hobbies. Needlework, reading and stamp collecting. I'm really grateful I was not popular, and never ran with the crowd. I think that it being an outcast allowed for developing interests that were truly my own and uninfluenced but what others did or thought.
Guthrum! I remember pogs! Never had any though, but some of the neighbors did.
Josh sits and looks at stamps with me. He likes cars and planes of course. Right now he is really big on collecting sports cards. I think that is a good hobby for an almost 8 year old, and could transition nicely to also collecting stamps. When asked what he wanted for his birthday he said. "Baseball Cards and Legos" So grateful he didn't want video games. How many parents can say that their kid didn't want video games for their birthday?
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09:40:49pm
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Here is a link to the Boy Scout requirements to earn the stamp collecting merit badge:
Boy Scout stamp collecting merit badge
How many stamp collectors do you think could earn this badge?
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Here is a copy of my BSA Stamp Collecting Merit Badge that I earned in the early 1960s.
As I remember it, even then there was some confusion about what a scout had to do in order to qualify for this badge. I had a Stamp Collecting Merit Badge booklet; I don’t recall where I got it, but I dutifully used its check list to ensure that I had met all of the requirements. I rode my bike to the examiners house one afternoon after school, with my collection and whatever else was need in my back pack. I did not, however, bring along that booklet.
After a bit of small talk, the examiner pulled out his own book of merit badge requirements. His was a thick book that seemed to have contained the requirements for every merit badge offered by the BSA. Needless to say, the list of requirements he had were completely different than the ones I had followed. He was quite gracious about it, allowing me to ride back home to get the aforementioned Stamp Collecting Merit Badge booklet that I used. After returning to his home, I had a very successful session and as you can see from the picture, was successful in every respect.
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05:16:44pm
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
I tried to get the merit badges for stamp collecting and model railroading. They denied me the badges saying that since I was already involved with the hobbies I was disqualified. The badges were to be earned "from scratch". I quit the Boy Scouts.
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Michael,
That just seems wrong. I was a stamp collector well before I was a boy scout. The idea was to articulate a certain level of expertise in the subject matter, not to make converts of scouts that were clueless about the hobby.
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Well, the idea behind merit badges was/is to expose boys to new vocations and to introduce them to members of their community who are active in those fields. If you're already quite proficient in the subject, then you earn nothing of value in completing that badge except for a tiny round piece of cloth.
There is nothing (except leaders who misunderstand) preventing boys from earning badges they are already proficient in (I got my high school teachers to sign off many badges that had been properly covered in class myself), but philosophically their time would be better spent learning something new.
Chris
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Wanting to bring the joy of stamp collecting to younger generations
01 Jun 2015
10:55:31pm
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Why shouldn't a person get a merit badge for something they already are doing. It is merely symbolic of having learned about the subject. Does it matter if you did the learning before or during scouting?
It is like punishing someone for learning on their own initiative rather then rewarding them.
IMHO
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
The denial of a stamp collecting merit badge for Michael (who clearly was so psychologically damaged that he has to remain in Texas!) -- -- seems to have reflected the idea that philately consists of a finite body of knowledge, whereas any collector with even modest experience knows that he or she will never, ever learn everything that there is to learn about our hobby. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, philately is fraught with known unknowns. Or is that unknown unknowns. unknown knowns? Who knows?
Bob
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12:59:35am
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
I was very active when growing up. I was involved in sports in school, I bicycled all over the place, hiked long distances with friends, family had a boat that we took up and down the Hudson River and beyond, swimming, etc. Plenty of merit badges that I had proficiency in, but wasn't allowed to get. Boy Scouts to me was a waste of time.
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
I will never understand rules whose intent (or effect) is to diminish self-regard and success. It there isn't room for honoring an achievement accomplished outside an existing tent, the tent is the wrong size or configuration.
Michael, I hereby bequeath you the SOR merit badge, first class, for mastery of things philatelic. I'll need one of our more talented artists to create the badge itself, but it is yours no matter the form.
Bob, I know that Canadian tongue of yours is decidedly in cheek about all things Rumsfeldian, but, for others, the big Rummy used the unknown unknowns to explain away a myriad of failures he helped to create by closing his ears to those who knew what was known and tried to explain it to him. They were military men talking about military matters, and the best of them got the boot for their troubles. Soon their names and counsel were forgotton, and what had been known, by some, became unknown to Rummy. Generals Zinni and Shinseki, I hereby bequeath unto you the SOR merit badge, first class, for speaking truth to power, whose design includes three monkies with most orifices closed.
David, who never was a boy scout
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
02 Jun 2015
09:42:01am
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Doubt I would have qualified for Canadian scouting, dumbed down or smartened-up. My membership in "cub scouts" was terminated when I was 10 for failure to recognize the authority of my den mother (also my cousin - boy did I get a whipping for that one). Maybe that is why I starting collecting stamps shortly thereafter; no one to answer to, boss me around or make unreasonable demands upon my time.
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re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
Perhaps the difference between my experience and Michael’s (and others) was either time or place. I also knew how to swim before I earned my swimming merit badge, etc.
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05:35:23am
re: The dumbing down of Canadian scouting
I obviously cannot speak for Canadian or US scouting, But I was involved, as a Cub Scout,Scout,Senior Scout ( somewhat similar to the US Explorer ) and some 20 years as an adult (some if this in a professional capacity).
The UK name for Merit Badge is Proficiency Badge. As the name implies this is recognition of a defined level of Proficiency in a given subject. This level is made more comprehensive in each stage of the age ranges- it is not a given that this should be started from scratch,and indeed in some subjects,particularly in the older age ranges, it is unlikely the 3 years in the age group would allow the level of proficiency to be achieved from scratch. For most subjects earned in the Senior section it was a requirement to have ( or to reach ) the level of the previous age-range badge on the same subject in addition to the higher expertise of the older age-range.
The problem with starting from scratch is that it encourages a young person to take up an activity purely to earn the badge and thus become a number collector. That is not the object of the exercise - it is aiming to produce a well-rounded individual. This is why the higher cumulative scouting awards required the earning some of a number of "grouped" badges so that only a limited number of hobby-based subjects were permitted together with a number of "technical(scouting skills)" and "service" awards. Do we really want a holder of a previously-gained Red Cross certificate to be denied a First Aid award?-particularly when the said award is compulsory for the highest aweard in UK Scouting(Queen's Scout).
Note these comments apply to the time I was involved in Scouts from the 1960s to the early 1990s, but despite modernisation I doubt that the principles have changed much.
Malcolm
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