Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
A few questions arise:
1. Is the information gathered by Stanley Gibbons actually identical to information gathered by Scott (or Michel, or wherever) - i.e. are all catalogues receiving the same information from the stamp-issuing entity? (The online Russian catalogue to which I subscribe - nestor.minsk.by - omits the missing engravers as well.)
2. Does a similar situation apply in respect of other countries - i.e. we are told some of the engravers, but not all?
3. Is it because, in the Soviet Union at least, we have evidence that individual engravers were not encouraged to identify themselves, the idea being that the work was a corporate effort by a team? (That said, there are several sets engraved by a team of four or more engravers, all duly assigned by name to whichever stamp was their work.)
I think it is unlikely that the designer and engraver are one and the same person: the skills are too specific and I have no evidence of where this might be the case.
I am quite prepared to have an "engraver unknown" section in my album, but before I print out all the pages for it, I'd like to know if there's any chance of further identification!
All information and comment welcome - there may even be someone else out there who collects by engraver!
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A quick scan of Michel's Soviet Union listing revealed no engravers' names at all. For other countries this is probably the same. I only checked Sweden because I know hundreds of stamps from that country were engraved by Slania.
A simple, down to earth reason for this is that stamps are consumer items, not pieces of art. And it is not customary to have consumer items signed by their designers. Only when a coffee machine or chair becomes a design classic we learn that it was designed by Alessi or Eames or whoever.
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Fair points, Jansimon.
It occurs to me that details of stamp issues are sent in the first instance to the UPU. In which direction they get from there to Messrs Scott, Gibbons, Michel et al I am not sure. (i.e. do the UPU circulate, or do catalogues apply?)
In the case of the USSR, the individual engravers are seldom mentioned (in Gibbons) before 1958, and seldom omitted after that date, which suggests some sort of definite policy at work - but whether that policy emanated from the Strand (Gibbons deciding they want to know) or from Moscow (DIEZPO deciding it should be known) is not clear.
I think the engravers would take issue with the pragmatic view that stamps are not pieces of art! You can tell from Lydia Mayorova's memoir - even in Google Translate - that she remained disappointed that her work was not allowed to be more widely known.
Whether Slania (or his people/company/workshop) publicised his work in order to continue receiving commissions, or whether the commissions kept on coming with no effort on his part to advertise himself, might throw some light on whether engravers saw themselves as anonymous workhorses or artists worthy of their own identity.
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Is engraving art, or is it a craft? I think the latter, especially when the engraver makes sure another person's design is etched into a plate of copper. Therefore I do not think engravers create a work of art, they only realize it.
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I'm preparing my collection of USSR engraved stamps. About 75% of these are by engravers listed (alongside the designers) in the Stanley Gibbons catalogue - the remainder are not.
A few questions arise:
1. Is the information gathered by Stanley Gibbons actually identical to information gathered by Scott (or Michel, or wherever) - i.e. are all catalogues receiving the same information from the stamp-issuing entity? (The online Russian catalogue to which I subscribe - nestor.minsk.by - omits the missing engravers as well.)
2. Does a similar situation apply in respect of other countries - i.e. we are told some of the engravers, but not all?
3. Is it because, in the Soviet Union at least, we have evidence that individual engravers were not encouraged to identify themselves, the idea being that the work was a corporate effort by a team? (That said, there are several sets engraved by a team of four or more engravers, all duly assigned by name to whichever stamp was their work.)
I think it is unlikely that the designer and engraver are one and the same person: the skills are too specific and I have no evidence of where this might be the case.
I am quite prepared to have an "engraver unknown" section in my album, but before I print out all the pages for it, I'd like to know if there's any chance of further identification!
All information and comment welcome - there may even be someone else out there who collects by engraver!
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re: Engravers - do we know who they are?
A quick scan of Michel's Soviet Union listing revealed no engravers' names at all. For other countries this is probably the same. I only checked Sweden because I know hundreds of stamps from that country were engraved by Slania.
A simple, down to earth reason for this is that stamps are consumer items, not pieces of art. And it is not customary to have consumer items signed by their designers. Only when a coffee machine or chair becomes a design classic we learn that it was designed by Alessi or Eames or whoever.
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re: Engravers - do we know who they are?
Fair points, Jansimon.
It occurs to me that details of stamp issues are sent in the first instance to the UPU. In which direction they get from there to Messrs Scott, Gibbons, Michel et al I am not sure. (i.e. do the UPU circulate, or do catalogues apply?)
In the case of the USSR, the individual engravers are seldom mentioned (in Gibbons) before 1958, and seldom omitted after that date, which suggests some sort of definite policy at work - but whether that policy emanated from the Strand (Gibbons deciding they want to know) or from Moscow (DIEZPO deciding it should be known) is not clear.
I think the engravers would take issue with the pragmatic view that stamps are not pieces of art! You can tell from Lydia Mayorova's memoir - even in Google Translate - that she remained disappointed that her work was not allowed to be more widely known.
Whether Slania (or his people/company/workshop) publicised his work in order to continue receiving commissions, or whether the commissions kept on coming with no effort on his part to advertise himself, might throw some light on whether engravers saw themselves as anonymous workhorses or artists worthy of their own identity.
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this post
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re: Engravers - do we know who they are?
Is engraving art, or is it a craft? I think the latter, especially when the engraver makes sure another person's design is etched into a plate of copper. Therefore I do not think engravers create a work of art, they only realize it.
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