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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

 

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suziboyer

18 Jan 2016
03:52:49pm
I am trying to work out a new watermark detector and so far I have it working on my Australian states stamps.
I pretty much only have British Commonwealth stamps - but what are some stamps that you guys consider hard to watermark and would use something like a signoscope for or some other special tool? or that at least would be a good test for a new watermarking tool?
I am trying to come up with something simple that would be cheaper than a signoscope and eliminate toxic, flammable chemicals.


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tomiseksj
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18 Jan 2016
04:17:13pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

U.S. single line watermarks can some times be a challenge, as can finding watermarks on stamps on cover/piece.

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cocollectibles

18 Jan 2016
04:32:33pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

I find colored paper, especially red, hard to watermark using Clarity. Interestingly, I got so frustrated with a stamp on red paper that I thought of holding it up a strong light and rotating it. I found the watermark that way! Sometimes the easier solution is the cheapest. But alas, it doesn't work for all colored paper.

Another difficulty comes up with obliterator cancels, such as found on many QV issues; they can be so heavy that it is almost impossible to WM the stamp.

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suziboyer

18 Jan 2016
04:58:07pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Thank you both - I will look up what US stamps have single line watermarks, and will take a look at your other suggestions.
I am not sure if I can fix the issues with heavily cancelled stamps nor stamps with heavy hinge marks, which I find equally hard to watermark. But I will see how the new method works.

Thanks!

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TuskenRaider
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18 Jan 2016
05:36:43pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Hi Suzi;

Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico as some of the definitives are rather small. So they only show a small area of the watermark. In addition some were printed using several watermarks, so not just two to pick from.

Just thinkin'....
TuskenRaider

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18 Jan 2016
07:29:51pm

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re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Yellow Washington-Franklin issues can be difficult, especially the earlier issues.

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khj
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18 Jan 2016
07:39:22pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Webpaper picked what I consider to be one of the toughest (yellow W-Fs). Add to that a heavy cancel, and you have the recipe for futility.

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pedroguy
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18 Jan 2016
09:20:38pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Take a look at

http://retroreveal.org/


(Modified by Moderator on 2016-01-18 21:43:35)

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

18 Jan 2016
11:40:52pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

I think the hardest US stamp to see the watermark on is a used 381. That is a single-line watermarked 10c yellow Washington 3rd Bureau. There is a double-line watermark version (338) that is easier to spot. Fortunately there is no un-watermarked version of that stamp because sometimes I just can't see ANYTHING, especially on a used stamp, but even mint is tough.

I have a mint 381 I have attempted to find the watermark on no less than half a dozen times, always to no avail. Used copies of 381 are only $2.00, so it's not expensive to practice on.

Lars

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

19 Jan 2016
12:13:01am
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Pedroguy,

I tried that and came up empty using maximum resolution on my scanner and exporting as TIF. Is a photo or scan better? I used a black background. Would white be better?

Lars

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mbo1142
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19 Jan 2016
08:13:20am
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

One year ago today, I posted the following information regarding finding watermarks. Curious to know if anyone has tried using this method, and if so did it help?

"I agree with everyone re; finding the WM on the colored W/F. Following is an idea I picked up at a seminar during the last World Stamp Show in Washington.

Try using a colored filter. If you’re really serious about this, you may want to try a photographic or scientific supply house to get filters specifically designed to remove light of a specific color. I obtained a complete set of colored filter samples from a store that sells lighting for stage shows. Alternately, colored cellophane wrapping paper, for example the kind that fruit baskets come in, often does the job. Either way, you will want to use a filter of the complimentary color of the stamp in question. For example, you would want to use a blue filter for the difficult orange stamp, a purple filter for the yellow stamp, and a red to reddish violet filter for the olive green stamp. The filter should be translucent enough to let plenty of light through and yet block the color of light reflected from the ink of the stamp.

This doesn't work every time, but I have been able to find both the single and double line WM on the Yellow, Orange, and Green W/F. Another way, but a little more expensive is to obtain a block of those stamps. The WM is easier to find. And it goes without saying if used, the lighter the postmark the better."

Mel

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AntoniusRa
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The truth is within and only you can reveal it

20 Jan 2016
01:43:26am
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

I've also found that Yellow stamps are the hardest to see watermarks and not just U.S. Right after the stamp is placed in fluid the watermark shows the best and tends to fade with time. When checking watermarks from countries such as Brazil that have many similar types, I use the scanner. Place some fluid on the scanner glass then put the stamp face up in the fluid and a Black plastic card on top of stamp and scan. It will often show difficult watermarks better than looking at the stamp in tray. For comparing different watermarks it is the best way I've found. I would think using a filter may add even more clarity

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Croman66
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20 Jan 2016
01:58:08pm
re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

definately U.S. single line watermarks as sometimes only a small part of the watermark is actually on the stamp, hard to see especially on cancelled stamps

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Author/Postings
suziboyer

18 Jan 2016
03:52:49pm

I am trying to work out a new watermark detector and so far I have it working on my Australian states stamps.
I pretty much only have British Commonwealth stamps - but what are some stamps that you guys consider hard to watermark and would use something like a signoscope for or some other special tool? or that at least would be a good test for a new watermarking tool?
I am trying to come up with something simple that would be cheaper than a signoscope and eliminate toxic, flammable chemicals.


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tomiseksj

18 Jan 2016
04:17:13pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

U.S. single line watermarks can some times be a challenge, as can finding watermarks on stamps on cover/piece.

Like
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this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards ...
cocollectibles

18 Jan 2016
04:32:33pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

I find colored paper, especially red, hard to watermark using Clarity. Interestingly, I got so frustrated with a stamp on red paper that I thought of holding it up a strong light and rotating it. I found the watermark that way! Sometimes the easier solution is the cheapest. But alas, it doesn't work for all colored paper.

Another difficulty comes up with obliterator cancels, such as found on many QV issues; they can be so heavy that it is almost impossible to WM the stamp.

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Login to Like
this post

"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
suziboyer

18 Jan 2016
04:58:07pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Thank you both - I will look up what US stamps have single line watermarks, and will take a look at your other suggestions.
I am not sure if I can fix the issues with heavily cancelled stamps nor stamps with heavy hinge marks, which I find equally hard to watermark. But I will see how the new method works.

Thanks!

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TuskenRaider

18 Jan 2016
05:36:43pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Hi Suzi;

Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico as some of the definitives are rather small. So they only show a small area of the watermark. In addition some were printed using several watermarks, so not just two to pick from.

Just thinkin'....
TuskenRaider

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www.webstore.com/sto ...
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

18 Jan 2016
07:29:51pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Yellow Washington-Franklin issues can be difficult, especially the earlier issues.

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www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
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khj

18 Jan 2016
07:39:22pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Webpaper picked what I consider to be one of the toughest (yellow W-Fs). Add to that a heavy cancel, and you have the recipe for futility.

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pedroguy

18 Jan 2016
09:20:38pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Take a look at

http://retroreveal.org/


(Modified by Moderator on 2016-01-18 21:43:35)

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Jan 2016
11:40:52pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

I think the hardest US stamp to see the watermark on is a used 381. That is a single-line watermarked 10c yellow Washington 3rd Bureau. There is a double-line watermark version (338) that is easier to spot. Fortunately there is no un-watermarked version of that stamp because sometimes I just can't see ANYTHING, especially on a used stamp, but even mint is tough.

I have a mint 381 I have attempted to find the watermark on no less than half a dozen times, always to no avail. Used copies of 381 are only $2.00, so it's not expensive to practice on.

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
19 Jan 2016
12:13:01am

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

Pedroguy,

I tried that and came up empty using maximum resolution on my scanner and exporting as TIF. Is a photo or scan better? I used a black background. Would white be better?

Lars

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this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
19 Jan 2016
08:13:20am

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

One year ago today, I posted the following information regarding finding watermarks. Curious to know if anyone has tried using this method, and if so did it help?

"I agree with everyone re; finding the WM on the colored W/F. Following is an idea I picked up at a seminar during the last World Stamp Show in Washington.

Try using a colored filter. If you’re really serious about this, you may want to try a photographic or scientific supply house to get filters specifically designed to remove light of a specific color. I obtained a complete set of colored filter samples from a store that sells lighting for stage shows. Alternately, colored cellophane wrapping paper, for example the kind that fruit baskets come in, often does the job. Either way, you will want to use a filter of the complimentary color of the stamp in question. For example, you would want to use a blue filter for the difficult orange stamp, a purple filter for the yellow stamp, and a red to reddish violet filter for the olive green stamp. The filter should be translucent enough to let plenty of light through and yet block the color of light reflected from the ink of the stamp.

This doesn't work every time, but I have been able to find both the single and double line WM on the Yellow, Orange, and Green W/F. Another way, but a little more expensive is to obtain a block of those stamps. The WM is easier to find. And it goes without saying if used, the lighter the postmark the better."

Mel

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AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
20 Jan 2016
01:43:26am

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

I've also found that Yellow stamps are the hardest to see watermarks and not just U.S. Right after the stamp is placed in fluid the watermark shows the best and tends to fade with time. When checking watermarks from countries such as Brazil that have many similar types, I use the scanner. Place some fluid on the scanner glass then put the stamp face up in the fluid and a Black plastic card on top of stamp and scan. It will often show difficult watermarks better than looking at the stamp in tray. For comparing different watermarks it is the best way I've found. I would think using a filter may add even more clarity

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Croman66

If I was a stamp I would be a C15
20 Jan 2016
01:58:08pm

re: Working on a new way to see watermarks- what are some hard to watermark stamps?

definately U.S. single line watermarks as sometimes only a small part of the watermark is actually on the stamp, hard to see especially on cancelled stamps

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"If you ain't first.....your last."
        

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