Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Please be advised that all souvenir sheets from Germany issued in 1937 are now deemed to violate the eBay (US) Hateful and Discriminatory policy and must be removed from listings--or else. I took mine off last night.
I was able to speak with a U.S. rep and she reached out to the the Trust and Safety department but unfortunately her emailed reply was still vague--she informed me that yes they were forbidden--no details etc. On our phone conversation, I had pointed out the eBay policy clearly states that stamps are okay--and gave her the Scott Postage Stamp name with Germany B102, etc. listings to provide the Trust and Safety department with those details. I even mentioned that I removed these stamps for sale to Germany, Austria, Italy and France--to be safe. Of course these particular stamps are for sale on those sites in their hundreds.
I guess I'm just venting but also wanted to pass on the new part of this unfortunate policy.
Bruce
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Political correctness is cowardice in the face of the loss of common sense.
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Michael,
Great quote-is it original with you?
Dan C
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Speaking of great quotes:
"{The decision by eBay as a... } rational for-profit corporation in a capitalist system ... has far less to do with politics and far more with striking a balance between doing what is needed to attract one lucrative customer group that outweighs the potential loss of another that is less lucrative."
Or as one famous person put it...
"Success is the sole ... judge of right and wrong. "
The same person who said ...
"Universal education is the most corroding and disintegrating poison ... "
The person quoted quite famously ordered the burning of books because he knew that keeping people ignorant of history, opinion and fact that was "controversial" (i.e. not in keeping with his socio-politically motivated world view) would allow for an easier repetition of historical "evils".
Burning books? Banning stamps? Not overly far removed. And if eventually the political-correctness gendarmes come to my door to confiscate any of my German stamps with Nazi-related images, at least it will not have deprived me of the opportunity to have used them as an educational tool. A chance to not bury the uncomfortable past, but to create an important conversation with my children to remind them of the words spoken to me by the grandmother they never got to know...
"Never forget David. Only then, never again will it be allowed to happen."
Dave.
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If eBay, vast and sprawling as it is, had a policy that made sense then Anglophile's marketing savvy also might make sense.
However...they do not. There will unlikely be any effort to remove identical stamps for sale. This is a feel good effort that covers their ass while they continue to allow NAZI items many that actually are forbidden to be sold. eBay can point to the nature of the sprawl, begging understanding, while producing a list of items that were removed thus proving to inquiring minds that eBay does indeed act as best they can when in fact they do not act to remove all of these listings.
In the case of the stamps, this is an arbitrary decision made by in all likelihood by one person that runs contrary to eBay's printed rule: "Allowed--stamps." Seems pretty black and white. Perhaps eBay should alter the rule to read: No stamps from Germany between the years 1933-45. And then, act on it rather than comb thru a few listings to hold up as a policy.
Bruce
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In my former life, I occasionally lectured on Conflict Resolution. Deep down there are some conflicts that are never really resolved.
Most things pass from Politics/Conflict to History.
Arguably some things dont....Nazism might be considered such a case. It may have been defeated but it is still around. Hence the fear in central Europe leading to legislation is somewhat different to British Isles, Scandanavia and USA.
In most contexts the stamps illustrated are "history" as the Vendor correctly sees it. It is certainly likely that some buyers are differently motivated but I dont think we can legislate for the context that a Buyer might see.
I certainly have items (not German) in my collections of stamps, postcards, memorabalia etc which some people would (rightly in their view) see as grossly offensive. I take the view that I am not personally offended by anything I own.
I was once told my Fidel Castro tshirt was offensive.
I take the view that it isnt but I would not wear it in USA as clearly it would offend.
Going back to the Hitler stamps....if I was selling such an item, I would publish a disclaimer saying that "I realise the item could offend but is offered in the context of a genuine German stamp issue. It does not in any way reflect my world view"
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This will pass. Ebay has done this stuff before and after awhile- when they have satisfied the PC crowd- they gradually will relax this.
There are groups of self appointed vigilantes out there- well intentioned- but with utterly no ideas of stamps or collecting who patrol Ebay and other such venues and target listings like this for 'promoting hate'. They do not know what they are looking at. They only see Der Fuhrer's face and assume it is neo Nazi stuff. Some of these groups also harass legitimate websites with information about the Third Reich area and pollute them with harmful malware. Ebay probably got hit with a slew of organized complaining and threats of boycott and took the easy way out.
This needs to get publicity in the mainstream philatelic press. The APS and Linn's need to publicize this draconian policy.
Followup- I just looked at Ebay listings for this area. No sign of any purge of these items. I found several listings for these sheets with similar cancels. Is the OP sure he did not misunderstand? Sometimes it's just one little person at Ebay..
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Stampme,
Are all Hitler-head stamps forbidden now on EBAY, or just the souvenir sheets that you referenced?
Are other Nazi-era stamps forbidden, or just Hitler-head stamps?
I haven't listed on EBAY in years, but did list some Germany Hitler-head stamps one time. I had a person email me and demanded that I remove those stamps from my listings as she was offended by their appearance. That left me rather conflicted, but I ended up leaving the listings up and ignored her demand.
I have noticed that Nazi-era stamps from immediate post-war Austria are listed by German sellers on Delcampe, but apparently to meet German laws regarding selling Hitler-related material, black rectangles were placed over the face of Hitler on the overprinted stamps by the seller (done graphically by computer, not actual defacement of the stamps). I didn't check the German stamp listings, but I suspect the same practice is followed there.
If this practice by EBAY is carried out to its illogical conclusion, no stamps can be placed up for sale from any country that ever had a dictator or carried out policies that would be deemed by today's standards to be "bad". Would pre-Civil War USA stamps be banned because the USA had legal slavery at that time? Would Confederate States stamps be banned because of the presence of slavery in the Confederate States? Would USA stamps then be banned up until the 1960's because of segregation in general? Or because of the genocidal policies by the USA government against the Native American population? And on and on with every country in the world. It just makes no sense.
As Levamen stated, it is much better to know about this era and what actually happened and why it was allowed to happen rather than to cover it up and be ignorant.
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Someone probably pressed the Report Item button on your item and Ebay took action. Perhaps its the slogan on the souvenir sheet that got the ball rolling. There's no reason others cannot list their souvenir sheets if Ebay's policy remains unchanged.
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Hello All,
I do not know whether all stamps picturing Hitler are now "banned" on eBay. I reached out one more time, today, with the expectation that I could get some kind of clarity on the vague response that the Hitler sheets were banned and the prohibition notice was the correct one.
Here is the eBay online policy regarding offensive items as it pertains to Nazi stamps:
"Nazi and Nazi-related:
ALLOWED
Stamps, letters, and envelopes displaying Nazi postmarks (must comply with the currency and stamp policy)
Currency issued by the Nazi German government, including military scripts
Historically accurate WWII military model kits that have Nazi symbols
NOT ALLOWED
Items that are not permitted include, but are not limited to:
Historical Holocaust-related items, including reproductions such as:
Uniforms and personal belongings of concentration camp prisoners
Jewish identification (armbands, Star of David)
Holocaust photos that depict dead bodies, executions, or other violent or degrading scenes
Nazi-issued documents (passports, travel papers)
Historical Nazi-related items, including reproductions such as:
Uniforms, uniform components, weapons, or other items that bear Nazi symbols, whether visible or covered
Listings in which images are edited or cropped to try and hide Nazi symbols
Denazified items (items that originally had Nazi symbols that have been removed)
1936 Olympic medals
Items that were owned by, affiliated with, or books written by Nazi leaders such as:
Joseph Goebbels
Hermann Goering
Rudolf Hess
Reinhard Heydrich
Heinrich Himmler
Adolf Hitler
Media identified as Nazi propaganda or that otherwise promote hatred or racial supremacy including historic and current items"
The souvenir sheets are clearly stamps which are allowed but, as has been surmised, it is likely that one person is not interpreting the eBay policy correctly and making the incorrect call. Unfortunately, oftentimes, people (representatives) tend to fall in line, so to speak, and follow the flawed leader.
The Germans, and other Europeans, publish the paragraph mentioned that states the stamps are just stamps from that era and not intended as fodder for the Neo Nazis--I paraphrase.
If items are forbidden here, covering them up will not excuse the seller from the rule nor will placing that statement in the listing description.
In my situation, it was not a shopper but rather the eBay system representative going through the listings, pulling some out, perhaps to fill a CYA* quota?
Bruce
* Cover Your Ass
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"Someone probably pressed the Report Item button on your item and Ebay took action. Perhaps its the slogan on the souvenir sheet that got the ball rolling. There's no reason others cannot list their souvenir sheets if Ebay's policy remains unchanged."
You are probably correct that someone reported the auction. Watching eBay boards forever, I've learned that in many of these cases where objectionable or fake items were reported, the reporter was a competitor selling the same things.
As are as eBay being able to manage restrictions, read the below article. eBay just bought an image recognition technology company.
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y16/m10/i06/s01
Note that ecomercebytes is excellent if you are following online market news. Hit the subscribe button in the upper left cover, you'll get a daily email with the latest happenings. I've received it for years.
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NO, it was not someone who reported the souvenir sheets. The rep informed me that it was the eBay Trust and Safety department which periodically combs the listings for violations--not in any logical manner of course.
Bruce
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I just noticed there was a message on my phone from eBay.
It was someone from their Trust And Safety department.
He basically said that the two items were removed for sensitivity reasons because they portrayed Adolf Hitler.
So, that would mean that all stamps with Hitler's picture, according to this explanation, must be removed.
I think the message was left before I called eBay again, today.
Bruce
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I'm wondering if they don't think souvenir sheets are stamps. To someone who doesn't know this area, the souvenir sheet may look like a souvenir program or other document, rather than like a stamp-related item. (Indeed, they may be thinking very narrowly: stamps only, not related philatelic items.)
Just speculating here, but I can certainly understand your frustration.
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So long as there is an Ebay, this will never end. It will go back and forth, one week it will be one way the next the other.
Yes I agree it was some internal thing. The OP was just unlucky enough to have his listing pulled by some lowly Ebay minion trying to impress his supervisors.
Whenever I have listing this sort of thing I have always included a sentence or two to the effect that the item is being offered as an historical relic only and is in no way intended to promote any racial or political ideology. That usually seems to satisfy the Ebay police.
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"Great quote-is it original with you?"
Yes, thanks.
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"Here is the eBay online policy regarding offensive items as it pertains to Nazi stamps:
"Nazi and Nazi-related:
NOT ALLOWED
...
...
1936 Olympic medals
...
...
"
So Jesse Owens' medals would be banned, should they hypothetically appear on eBay ?
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I just searched ebay for these kind of stamps, and many listings came up in the search.
Obviously they are not being consistent regarding enforcement.
Seems to me some clever programmer could come up with an algorithm that would not allow listings that contain this material in the first place. That being said, their policy makes no sense at all when applied to stamp collecting.
Adam
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Snick1946: You are at the mercy of a random selection process versus a printed rule that speaks to the issue with clarity but is flippantly ignored. Your printed blurb, regrettably, has had nothing to do with being selected for a removal of material. It is a lucky fluke that none has been removed.
While the issue of the 1936 Olympic Medals is also foolish nevertheless the rules clearly ban such material so there can be no doubt or opinion by an eBay rep unlike this issue with the stamps.
The rules state that stamps are allowed versus the opinion of various reps who create their own interpretations and true to corporate form, will not bend even if it means acknowledging that the stated corporate is actually correct and their opinion is wrong.
Bruce
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Update: I reached out one more time and spoke with a different customer rep from eBay.
She said that the allowed stamps seemed pretty straightforward so she forwarded the removal action to the stamp policy people who would make a decision on their policy for me, providing clarity if necessary.
Keep in mind:
The first rep stated that she thought because Hitler was on the stamps, that caused the prohibition.
The Trust and Safety person she forwarded the issue to confirmed that the stamps were banned with no other explanation.
A person called my house and re-confirmed the ban that because Hitler was depicted on the stamps, they were banned.
Today, the second person called the house, apologized for the removal and stated that the stamp policy department concurred the souvenir sheets were placed on the banned list by error. She further stated that all stamps from that era are allowed. She told me I could relist the items.
I did request that she send me an email with all that information she provided confirmed. She did. I printed it out for future reference.
It pays to be persistent. They are going back up.
Bruce
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I hope you weren't charged a fee for the relisting.
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I have just done a search on Ebay's UK Site there are at least 200 Hitler Head stamps plus lots more Third Reich stamps including a dozen copies of this miniature sheet including copies from the USA
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Getting your listing banned on eBay is the luck of the draw.
They don't have enough staff to read every auction, so they probably depend on things like keyword search. I posted earlier that they have purchased an image recognition company, so they maybe able to flag Hitler heads and swastikas in the future.
The number one way auctions get banned is by a member report. In many cases those reports are made by a competitor, wishing to get rid of competing auctions.
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Nope, no fee charged. I am grateful the eBay person sent me the email I requested, verifying that removal was an error, that such stamps and other Nazi era stamps are allowed. The email states that Hitler stamps among others are allowed to be sold on the German ebay site so that in the future should this happen again, I have proof that stamps were pulled by error; some sane people reviewed the issue and verified that stamps from Nazi Germany could be sold.
This time I was not turned in by a competitor. The rep told me that an eBay person did not flag the stamps but rather an eBay program they use did that but the person who did the actual review dropped the ball.
Bruce
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Blaming the algorithm is the new "my dog ate my homework".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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I just went on the Dutch ebay (ebay.nl ) and the Hitler stuff is still being sold!
So, if you are in the market for these items, just go to another country;s Ebay. Or, list it without the "H" name -- like instead of 'Cuba" use the word "Havanna".
Jopie
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That's a nice card Phil. Very envious!
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"... Did you have this in Auction or Fixed Price, and how much were you asking? ..."
Way to focus, Dave!
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I have to say that I have a problem with some of the other Nazi items that e-bay choose to ban - in that they are out of touch with reality.
Mein Kampf is available to genuine students if they make the effort to find it - many of the other items are legitimate areas of study and in themselves not liable to convert or inflame those other than people predisposed to that point of view ( who no doubt have their own methods of obtaining material).
It can be argued that overly graphic pictures of holocaust victims should be banned on the basis of bad taste ( and the effect on any surviving victims) rather than political content.
Documents of a racist nature 80 years old is not the same as current material inciting racist, terrorist, or religious hatred now, which arguably make a case for banning. I have to say however that I am of the opinion that blanket censorship of material is abhorrent, and that the only basis for censorship is that an individual image or document is so vile as to be offensive to every right-thinking person.
There is very little on their list which is not freely available on TV, in museums and in every public library, and while there will always be a minority of crazies, there is absolutely no evidence that the availability of such material has put millions of anti-semites on the streets of Leicester ( or anywhere else for that matter).
I find it very ironic that that those who scream for censorship of such material, are actually trying to use the very mechanisms that the extreme right used to suppress their opponents.
Besides which you don't make the obnoxious go away by pretending that it never existed.
Malcolm
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Could an active trade in Nazi memorabilia actually contribute to a return of Nazism?
It seems so unlikely ... maybe it just scratches their silly itch?
Will model car building lead to a resurgence of automobile manufacturing in the US?
How about model railroading?
Does pornography lead to more live sex with real people?
One of my kids has suggested that the Nazis took themselves so seriously (Thousand Year Reich, etc) that reducing them to movie/cartoon villains and Halloween party costumes is the revenge most likely to get them spinning in their graves.
I am inclined to let the Nazi fetishists buy & sell to their hearts' content.
OTOH, any public activity gives permission to other people to join in that activity, so perhaps an eBay ban is best.
Glad its not my decision to make.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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09:42:52am
Hello All,
Please be advised that all souvenir sheets from Germany issued in 1937 are now deemed to violate the eBay (US) Hateful and Discriminatory policy and must be removed from listings--or else. I took mine off last night.
I was able to speak with a U.S. rep and she reached out to the the Trust and Safety department but unfortunately her emailed reply was still vague--she informed me that yes they were forbidden--no details etc. On our phone conversation, I had pointed out the eBay policy clearly states that stamps are okay--and gave her the Scott Postage Stamp name with Germany B102, etc. listings to provide the Trust and Safety department with those details. I even mentioned that I removed these stamps for sale to Germany, Austria, Italy and France--to be safe. Of course these particular stamps are for sale on those sites in their hundreds.
I guess I'm just venting but also wanted to pass on the new part of this unfortunate policy.
Bruce
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10:03:14am
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Political correctness is cowardice in the face of the loss of common sense.
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Michael,
Great quote-is it original with you?
Dan C
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Speaking of great quotes:
"{The decision by eBay as a... } rational for-profit corporation in a capitalist system ... has far less to do with politics and far more with striking a balance between doing what is needed to attract one lucrative customer group that outweighs the potential loss of another that is less lucrative."
Or as one famous person put it...
"Success is the sole ... judge of right and wrong. "
The same person who said ...
"Universal education is the most corroding and disintegrating poison ... "
The person quoted quite famously ordered the burning of books because he knew that keeping people ignorant of history, opinion and fact that was "controversial" (i.e. not in keeping with his socio-politically motivated world view) would allow for an easier repetition of historical "evils".
Burning books? Banning stamps? Not overly far removed. And if eventually the political-correctness gendarmes come to my door to confiscate any of my German stamps with Nazi-related images, at least it will not have deprived me of the opportunity to have used them as an educational tool. A chance to not bury the uncomfortable past, but to create an important conversation with my children to remind them of the words spoken to me by the grandmother they never got to know...
"Never forget David. Only then, never again will it be allowed to happen."
Dave.
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12:03:05pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
If eBay, vast and sprawling as it is, had a policy that made sense then Anglophile's marketing savvy also might make sense.
However...they do not. There will unlikely be any effort to remove identical stamps for sale. This is a feel good effort that covers their ass while they continue to allow NAZI items many that actually are forbidden to be sold. eBay can point to the nature of the sprawl, begging understanding, while producing a list of items that were removed thus proving to inquiring minds that eBay does indeed act as best they can when in fact they do not act to remove all of these listings.
In the case of the stamps, this is an arbitrary decision made by in all likelihood by one person that runs contrary to eBay's printed rule: "Allowed--stamps." Seems pretty black and white. Perhaps eBay should alter the rule to read: No stamps from Germany between the years 1933-45. And then, act on it rather than comb thru a few listings to hold up as a policy.
Bruce
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12:12:20pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
In my former life, I occasionally lectured on Conflict Resolution. Deep down there are some conflicts that are never really resolved.
Most things pass from Politics/Conflict to History.
Arguably some things dont....Nazism might be considered such a case. It may have been defeated but it is still around. Hence the fear in central Europe leading to legislation is somewhat different to British Isles, Scandanavia and USA.
In most contexts the stamps illustrated are "history" as the Vendor correctly sees it. It is certainly likely that some buyers are differently motivated but I dont think we can legislate for the context that a Buyer might see.
I certainly have items (not German) in my collections of stamps, postcards, memorabalia etc which some people would (rightly in their view) see as grossly offensive. I take the view that I am not personally offended by anything I own.
I was once told my Fidel Castro tshirt was offensive.
I take the view that it isnt but I would not wear it in USA as clearly it would offend.
Going back to the Hitler stamps....if I was selling such an item, I would publish a disclaimer saying that "I realise the item could offend but is offered in the context of a genuine German stamp issue. It does not in any way reflect my world view"
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
This will pass. Ebay has done this stuff before and after awhile- when they have satisfied the PC crowd- they gradually will relax this.
There are groups of self appointed vigilantes out there- well intentioned- but with utterly no ideas of stamps or collecting who patrol Ebay and other such venues and target listings like this for 'promoting hate'. They do not know what they are looking at. They only see Der Fuhrer's face and assume it is neo Nazi stuff. Some of these groups also harass legitimate websites with information about the Third Reich area and pollute them with harmful malware. Ebay probably got hit with a slew of organized complaining and threats of boycott and took the easy way out.
This needs to get publicity in the mainstream philatelic press. The APS and Linn's need to publicize this draconian policy.
Followup- I just looked at Ebay listings for this area. No sign of any purge of these items. I found several listings for these sheets with similar cancels. Is the OP sure he did not misunderstand? Sometimes it's just one little person at Ebay..
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Stampme,
Are all Hitler-head stamps forbidden now on EBAY, or just the souvenir sheets that you referenced?
Are other Nazi-era stamps forbidden, or just Hitler-head stamps?
I haven't listed on EBAY in years, but did list some Germany Hitler-head stamps one time. I had a person email me and demanded that I remove those stamps from my listings as she was offended by their appearance. That left me rather conflicted, but I ended up leaving the listings up and ignored her demand.
I have noticed that Nazi-era stamps from immediate post-war Austria are listed by German sellers on Delcampe, but apparently to meet German laws regarding selling Hitler-related material, black rectangles were placed over the face of Hitler on the overprinted stamps by the seller (done graphically by computer, not actual defacement of the stamps). I didn't check the German stamp listings, but I suspect the same practice is followed there.
If this practice by EBAY is carried out to its illogical conclusion, no stamps can be placed up for sale from any country that ever had a dictator or carried out policies that would be deemed by today's standards to be "bad". Would pre-Civil War USA stamps be banned because the USA had legal slavery at that time? Would Confederate States stamps be banned because of the presence of slavery in the Confederate States? Would USA stamps then be banned up until the 1960's because of segregation in general? Or because of the genocidal policies by the USA government against the Native American population? And on and on with every country in the world. It just makes no sense.
As Levamen stated, it is much better to know about this era and what actually happened and why it was allowed to happen rather than to cover it up and be ignorant.
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Someone probably pressed the Report Item button on your item and Ebay took action. Perhaps its the slogan on the souvenir sheet that got the ball rolling. There's no reason others cannot list their souvenir sheets if Ebay's policy remains unchanged.
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01:41:24pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Hello All,
I do not know whether all stamps picturing Hitler are now "banned" on eBay. I reached out one more time, today, with the expectation that I could get some kind of clarity on the vague response that the Hitler sheets were banned and the prohibition notice was the correct one.
Here is the eBay online policy regarding offensive items as it pertains to Nazi stamps:
"Nazi and Nazi-related:
ALLOWED
Stamps, letters, and envelopes displaying Nazi postmarks (must comply with the currency and stamp policy)
Currency issued by the Nazi German government, including military scripts
Historically accurate WWII military model kits that have Nazi symbols
NOT ALLOWED
Items that are not permitted include, but are not limited to:
Historical Holocaust-related items, including reproductions such as:
Uniforms and personal belongings of concentration camp prisoners
Jewish identification (armbands, Star of David)
Holocaust photos that depict dead bodies, executions, or other violent or degrading scenes
Nazi-issued documents (passports, travel papers)
Historical Nazi-related items, including reproductions such as:
Uniforms, uniform components, weapons, or other items that bear Nazi symbols, whether visible or covered
Listings in which images are edited or cropped to try and hide Nazi symbols
Denazified items (items that originally had Nazi symbols that have been removed)
1936 Olympic medals
Items that were owned by, affiliated with, or books written by Nazi leaders such as:
Joseph Goebbels
Hermann Goering
Rudolf Hess
Reinhard Heydrich
Heinrich Himmler
Adolf Hitler
Media identified as Nazi propaganda or that otherwise promote hatred or racial supremacy including historic and current items"
The souvenir sheets are clearly stamps which are allowed but, as has been surmised, it is likely that one person is not interpreting the eBay policy correctly and making the incorrect call. Unfortunately, oftentimes, people (representatives) tend to fall in line, so to speak, and follow the flawed leader.
The Germans, and other Europeans, publish the paragraph mentioned that states the stamps are just stamps from that era and not intended as fodder for the Neo Nazis--I paraphrase.
If items are forbidden here, covering them up will not excuse the seller from the rule nor will placing that statement in the listing description.
In my situation, it was not a shopper but rather the eBay system representative going through the listings, pulling some out, perhaps to fill a CYA* quota?
Bruce
* Cover Your Ass
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
"Someone probably pressed the Report Item button on your item and Ebay took action. Perhaps its the slogan on the souvenir sheet that got the ball rolling. There's no reason others cannot list their souvenir sheets if Ebay's policy remains unchanged."
You are probably correct that someone reported the auction. Watching eBay boards forever, I've learned that in many of these cases where objectionable or fake items were reported, the reporter was a competitor selling the same things.
As are as eBay being able to manage restrictions, read the below article. eBay just bought an image recognition technology company.
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y16/m10/i06/s01
Note that ecomercebytes is excellent if you are following online market news. Hit the subscribe button in the upper left cover, you'll get a daily email with the latest happenings. I've received it for years.
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01:47:41pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
NO, it was not someone who reported the souvenir sheets. The rep informed me that it was the eBay Trust and Safety department which periodically combs the listings for violations--not in any logical manner of course.
Bruce
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02:14:42pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
I just noticed there was a message on my phone from eBay.
It was someone from their Trust And Safety department.
He basically said that the two items were removed for sensitivity reasons because they portrayed Adolf Hitler.
So, that would mean that all stamps with Hitler's picture, according to this explanation, must be removed.
I think the message was left before I called eBay again, today.
Bruce
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
I'm wondering if they don't think souvenir sheets are stamps. To someone who doesn't know this area, the souvenir sheet may look like a souvenir program or other document, rather than like a stamp-related item. (Indeed, they may be thinking very narrowly: stamps only, not related philatelic items.)
Just speculating here, but I can certainly understand your frustration.
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
So long as there is an Ebay, this will never end. It will go back and forth, one week it will be one way the next the other.
Yes I agree it was some internal thing. The OP was just unlucky enough to have his listing pulled by some lowly Ebay minion trying to impress his supervisors.
Whenever I have listing this sort of thing I have always included a sentence or two to the effect that the item is being offered as an historical relic only and is in no way intended to promote any racial or political ideology. That usually seems to satisfy the Ebay police.
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03:39:13pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
"Great quote-is it original with you?"
Yes, thanks.
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
"Here is the eBay online policy regarding offensive items as it pertains to Nazi stamps:
"Nazi and Nazi-related:
NOT ALLOWED
...
...
1936 Olympic medals
...
...
"
So Jesse Owens' medals would be banned, should they hypothetically appear on eBay ?
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
I just searched ebay for these kind of stamps, and many listings came up in the search.
Obviously they are not being consistent regarding enforcement.
Seems to me some clever programmer could come up with an algorithm that would not allow listings that contain this material in the first place. That being said, their policy makes no sense at all when applied to stamp collecting.
Adam
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04:39:42pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Snick1946: You are at the mercy of a random selection process versus a printed rule that speaks to the issue with clarity but is flippantly ignored. Your printed blurb, regrettably, has had nothing to do with being selected for a removal of material. It is a lucky fluke that none has been removed.
While the issue of the 1936 Olympic Medals is also foolish nevertheless the rules clearly ban such material so there can be no doubt or opinion by an eBay rep unlike this issue with the stamps.
The rules state that stamps are allowed versus the opinion of various reps who create their own interpretations and true to corporate form, will not bend even if it means acknowledging that the stated corporate is actually correct and their opinion is wrong.
Bruce
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11:43:36am
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Update: I reached out one more time and spoke with a different customer rep from eBay.
She said that the allowed stamps seemed pretty straightforward so she forwarded the removal action to the stamp policy people who would make a decision on their policy for me, providing clarity if necessary.
Keep in mind:
The first rep stated that she thought because Hitler was on the stamps, that caused the prohibition.
The Trust and Safety person she forwarded the issue to confirmed that the stamps were banned with no other explanation.
A person called my house and re-confirmed the ban that because Hitler was depicted on the stamps, they were banned.
Today, the second person called the house, apologized for the removal and stated that the stamp policy department concurred the souvenir sheets were placed on the banned list by error. She further stated that all stamps from that era are allowed. She told me I could relist the items.
I did request that she send me an email with all that information she provided confirmed. She did. I printed it out for future reference.
It pays to be persistent. They are going back up.
Bruce
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02:23:40pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
I hope you weren't charged a fee for the relisting.
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
I have just done a search on Ebay's UK Site there are at least 200 Hitler Head stamps plus lots more Third Reich stamps including a dozen copies of this miniature sheet including copies from the USA
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Getting your listing banned on eBay is the luck of the draw.
They don't have enough staff to read every auction, so they probably depend on things like keyword search. I posted earlier that they have purchased an image recognition company, so they maybe able to flag Hitler heads and swastikas in the future.
The number one way auctions get banned is by a member report. In many cases those reports are made by a competitor, wishing to get rid of competing auctions.
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02:43:49pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Nope, no fee charged. I am grateful the eBay person sent me the email I requested, verifying that removal was an error, that such stamps and other Nazi era stamps are allowed. The email states that Hitler stamps among others are allowed to be sold on the German ebay site so that in the future should this happen again, I have proof that stamps were pulled by error; some sane people reviewed the issue and verified that stamps from Nazi Germany could be sold.
This time I was not turned in by a competitor. The rep told me that an eBay person did not flag the stamps but rather an eBay program they use did that but the person who did the actual review dropped the ball.
Bruce
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Blaming the algorithm is the new "my dog ate my homework".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
I just went on the Dutch ebay (ebay.nl ) and the Hitler stuff is still being sold!
So, if you are in the market for these items, just go to another country;s Ebay. Or, list it without the "H" name -- like instead of 'Cuba" use the word "Havanna".
Jopie
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
That's a nice card Phil. Very envious!
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
"... Did you have this in Auction or Fixed Price, and how much were you asking? ..."
Way to focus, Dave!
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12:04:03pm
re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
I have to say that I have a problem with some of the other Nazi items that e-bay choose to ban - in that they are out of touch with reality.
Mein Kampf is available to genuine students if they make the effort to find it - many of the other items are legitimate areas of study and in themselves not liable to convert or inflame those other than people predisposed to that point of view ( who no doubt have their own methods of obtaining material).
It can be argued that overly graphic pictures of holocaust victims should be banned on the basis of bad taste ( and the effect on any surviving victims) rather than political content.
Documents of a racist nature 80 years old is not the same as current material inciting racist, terrorist, or religious hatred now, which arguably make a case for banning. I have to say however that I am of the opinion that blanket censorship of material is abhorrent, and that the only basis for censorship is that an individual image or document is so vile as to be offensive to every right-thinking person.
There is very little on their list which is not freely available on TV, in museums and in every public library, and while there will always be a minority of crazies, there is absolutely no evidence that the availability of such material has put millions of anti-semites on the streets of Leicester ( or anywhere else for that matter).
I find it very ironic that that those who scream for censorship of such material, are actually trying to use the very mechanisms that the extreme right used to suppress their opponents.
Besides which you don't make the obnoxious go away by pretending that it never existed.
Malcolm
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re: HATEFUL DISCRIMINATORY EBAY NEW UPDATE
Could an active trade in Nazi memorabilia actually contribute to a return of Nazism?
It seems so unlikely ... maybe it just scratches their silly itch?
Will model car building lead to a resurgence of automobile manufacturing in the US?
How about model railroading?
Does pornography lead to more live sex with real people?
One of my kids has suggested that the Nazis took themselves so seriously (Thousand Year Reich, etc) that reducing them to movie/cartoon villains and Halloween party costumes is the revenge most likely to get them spinning in their graves.
I am inclined to let the Nazi fetishists buy & sell to their hearts' content.
OTOH, any public activity gives permission to other people to join in that activity, so perhaps an eBay ban is best.
Glad its not my decision to make.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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