Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I had a few items in my cart today when I noted the seller had less than 100% feedback so I checked on it. Seven negs in the past few months. Most seemed the usual annoying stuff that people post. This seller posted replies in all caps and among other things called buyers 'Dumb Ass' not to say stupid and ignorant. I proceeded to empty my cart. As annoying as some of these people can be there is no excuse for behavior like this.
I have to wonder how many sales this guy has lost since indulging himself in this stuff. Possibly he doesn't care. But he ought to. Sad.
Login to Like
this post
Agreed but with that said you never know what games are being played behind the scenes. For example, it is fairly common for the badly flawed eBay feedback system to be used as a form of retribution. There are cases where a buyer will intentionally leave negative feedback for;
- some previous transaction(s) that left them angry
- ‘payback’ for some comment made in a forum like this one
- revenge due to completely unrelated dispute(s) like the taking of a parking space, trade show disagreements, or even difference between people who thought someone was coming on to their spouse
- axes being grind over silly stuff going on in social media world
The system is badly designed and implemented; does anyone really think that any seller can have 10,000+ transactions without a single negative experience? Obviously folks are working around the system. Others are abusing it for various agendas. And of course you can go buy an existing eBay account with perfect feedbacks which totally undermines the value of it.
eBay has a myopic view of the feedback system; they need buyers to be very, very confident. Without this then their entire business model fails. So the feedback system is a marketing tool for them to build buyer confidence. Anything negative is counter to their marketing objectives.
Due to all of the above, the feedback system reflects very little about the true nature of a seller, their transaction history, or their actual reputation. This sucks for the honest sellers who try to use it correctly.
I think buyers have to avoid using sellers they know nothing about. You have to do as much discovery on an unknown seller as you do in understanding the stamp you are buying. You have to do far more than simply looking at a broken rating system. Buying online from an unknown seller is like buying stamps from a person selling them out of trunk of his car at a flea market. You have no idea who they are, whether or not you have any recourse, and no idea if you will ever see them again. eBay may back you as a buyer in some ways but I have an email box full of horror stories where people have lost plenty of money with no chance of recovery or recourse.
Study the buyers, ask questions of other hobbyists in forum like this, and do your diligence not only on the stamp but also the seller. Do not be lured or seduced into what appears to be a 'bargain' from an unknown seller.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Don, agree with much of what you say. I take a mixed approach, if I am spending serious money (for me that is in excess of twenty bucks) I tend to avoid sellers not previously known to me. If I see what looks like good buy or something I feel I must try to have I tend to take a chance but only after checking out their feedback, as imperfect as that system is.
I tend to disregard one negative or even more if the volume of sales is high. When I see seven negatives in a 12 month period that tells me there might be some systemic issue with this seller. And to back off if what I am considering can be easily found someplace else.
Login to Like
this post
Understood, but I have seen that many negative feedbacks given simply due to retribution. Bill Weiss had a heck of a time because he was exposing and angered one of the unethical sellers. Since the seller had 40-50 eBay accounts, it was easy for him to make a number of purchases under various names and then use the feedback to completely trash Bill's feedback rating.
So anyone simply looking at just the feedback would assume that Bill was a poor seller when the opposite was true. I think the system is unreliable and it's only real value is a small (very small) piece of the puzzle. Having fellow hobbyists weight in (like in this forum), where folks have more than a handful of words to voice an opinion, and not being swayed by eBay's self-serving marketing schemes helps a lot. Ditto if the seller also has memberships in some of the better organizations like APS or ASDA.
There are plenty of good online sellers for US stamp collectors like Clark Frazier or Ken Srail. Sellers like them have good deals on good material that will hold it value in the future.
But the trouble is the quality seller like them don't represent the 'treasure hunting' that a lot of collector fall prey to. You know, when our ego gets the better of us and let us think that we can spot a 'treasure' in some listing by an unknown seller. Unethical sellers count on this to suck in the unexpecting.
Don
Edit: The impact of the eBay rating system abuse cannot be underestimated. There is a very large number of quality sellers and dealers who refuse to even participate in forums like this because they know that they will become a target for retribution. So instead they stay completely silent and do not participate at all.
Login to Like
this post
Good reply, thanks.
In this case nobody forced this seller to use all caps or to call someone what he did. That was childish and speaks to some deficiency in him. Retribution may well have been involved but you can always get your point across without making yourself look bad like this.
I have received just one negative since I began using Ebay in 2001. That was on an item I bought, non philatelic and left by a guy who just loved doing that to buyers. I only got one neutral on a sale and tht was also non philatelic. I was selling a lot of Play station games, one of them had the CD missing and rather than letting me know the buyer dinged me. He was a newbie and apologized but the damage, such as it was, was done. I still have 100%.
Login to Like
this post
"Edit: The impact of the eBay rating system abuse cannot be underestimated. There is a very large number of quality sellers and dealers who refuse to even participate in forums like this because they know that they will become a target for retribution. So instead they stay completely silent and do not participate at all. "
True. When I sold on eBay, I did so with a name nobody in my hobbies would connect with me to keep things separate.
If you are into keeping up on eBay and other on-line venues, I learn a lot on this website: http://www.ecommercebytes.com/. I get a daily blog email from them that tells me what's going on.
I've learned a lot about buyer scams, which are a lot more prevalent with buyers of consumer type merchandise. Also, those who complain about sellers are often sellers from the same categories hoping to cancel out the competition.
One thing I'd like to make folks aware of is the invasion of Chinese sellers masquerading as US sellers. Through some international trade mishap, these sellers can mail something to you cheaper than US sellers can. They sell merchandise that simply doesn't work. I got some USB cords that both my phone and computer instantly rejected with a warning that they would damage my electronics. If you complain back to the seller, they tell you to send it back for a refund since they know it would cost you more than you paid. Bad situation.
I needed a pair of washer nozzles for my Pt Cruiser, and there were tons of Buy It Nows, showing the source as China. I went with one that had an American flag on the photo of the product, and said they were in Secaucus, New Jersey. Once I paid, Paypal informed me I sent a payment to China. Beware!
Login to Like
this post
It's been said before, but.. if you sell on Ebay for heaven's sake, please try to control what you say to those few folks who leave you bad feedback. Remember that the negative response you leave is permanent and you cannot withdraw it once posted. As justified as you think it is try to avoid profanity and typing in all caps.
I had a few items in my cart today when I noted the seller had less than 100% feedback so I checked on it. Seven negs in the past few months. Most seemed the usual annoying stuff that people post. This seller posted replies in all caps and among other things called buyers 'Dumb Ass' not to say stupid and ignorant. I proceeded to empty my cart. As annoying as some of these people can be there is no excuse for behavior like this.
I have to wonder how many sales this guy has lost since indulging himself in this stuff. Possibly he doesn't care. But he ought to. Sad.
Login to Like
this post
re: An Ebay Sale that Never Happened
Agreed but with that said you never know what games are being played behind the scenes. For example, it is fairly common for the badly flawed eBay feedback system to be used as a form of retribution. There are cases where a buyer will intentionally leave negative feedback for;
- some previous transaction(s) that left them angry
- ‘payback’ for some comment made in a forum like this one
- revenge due to completely unrelated dispute(s) like the taking of a parking space, trade show disagreements, or even difference between people who thought someone was coming on to their spouse
- axes being grind over silly stuff going on in social media world
The system is badly designed and implemented; does anyone really think that any seller can have 10,000+ transactions without a single negative experience? Obviously folks are working around the system. Others are abusing it for various agendas. And of course you can go buy an existing eBay account with perfect feedbacks which totally undermines the value of it.
eBay has a myopic view of the feedback system; they need buyers to be very, very confident. Without this then their entire business model fails. So the feedback system is a marketing tool for them to build buyer confidence. Anything negative is counter to their marketing objectives.
Due to all of the above, the feedback system reflects very little about the true nature of a seller, their transaction history, or their actual reputation. This sucks for the honest sellers who try to use it correctly.
I think buyers have to avoid using sellers they know nothing about. You have to do as much discovery on an unknown seller as you do in understanding the stamp you are buying. You have to do far more than simply looking at a broken rating system. Buying online from an unknown seller is like buying stamps from a person selling them out of trunk of his car at a flea market. You have no idea who they are, whether or not you have any recourse, and no idea if you will ever see them again. eBay may back you as a buyer in some ways but I have an email box full of horror stories where people have lost plenty of money with no chance of recovery or recourse.
Study the buyers, ask questions of other hobbyists in forum like this, and do your diligence not only on the stamp but also the seller. Do not be lured or seduced into what appears to be a 'bargain' from an unknown seller.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: An Ebay Sale that Never Happened
Don, agree with much of what you say. I take a mixed approach, if I am spending serious money (for me that is in excess of twenty bucks) I tend to avoid sellers not previously known to me. If I see what looks like good buy or something I feel I must try to have I tend to take a chance but only after checking out their feedback, as imperfect as that system is.
I tend to disregard one negative or even more if the volume of sales is high. When I see seven negatives in a 12 month period that tells me there might be some systemic issue with this seller. And to back off if what I am considering can be easily found someplace else.
Login to Like
this post
re: An Ebay Sale that Never Happened
Understood, but I have seen that many negative feedbacks given simply due to retribution. Bill Weiss had a heck of a time because he was exposing and angered one of the unethical sellers. Since the seller had 40-50 eBay accounts, it was easy for him to make a number of purchases under various names and then use the feedback to completely trash Bill's feedback rating.
So anyone simply looking at just the feedback would assume that Bill was a poor seller when the opposite was true. I think the system is unreliable and it's only real value is a small (very small) piece of the puzzle. Having fellow hobbyists weight in (like in this forum), where folks have more than a handful of words to voice an opinion, and not being swayed by eBay's self-serving marketing schemes helps a lot. Ditto if the seller also has memberships in some of the better organizations like APS or ASDA.
There are plenty of good online sellers for US stamp collectors like Clark Frazier or Ken Srail. Sellers like them have good deals on good material that will hold it value in the future.
But the trouble is the quality seller like them don't represent the 'treasure hunting' that a lot of collector fall prey to. You know, when our ego gets the better of us and let us think that we can spot a 'treasure' in some listing by an unknown seller. Unethical sellers count on this to suck in the unexpecting.
Don
Edit: The impact of the eBay rating system abuse cannot be underestimated. There is a very large number of quality sellers and dealers who refuse to even participate in forums like this because they know that they will become a target for retribution. So instead they stay completely silent and do not participate at all.
Login to Like
this post
re: An Ebay Sale that Never Happened
Good reply, thanks.
In this case nobody forced this seller to use all caps or to call someone what he did. That was childish and speaks to some deficiency in him. Retribution may well have been involved but you can always get your point across without making yourself look bad like this.
I have received just one negative since I began using Ebay in 2001. That was on an item I bought, non philatelic and left by a guy who just loved doing that to buyers. I only got one neutral on a sale and tht was also non philatelic. I was selling a lot of Play station games, one of them had the CD missing and rather than letting me know the buyer dinged me. He was a newbie and apologized but the damage, such as it was, was done. I still have 100%.
Login to Like
this post
re: An Ebay Sale that Never Happened
"Edit: The impact of the eBay rating system abuse cannot be underestimated. There is a very large number of quality sellers and dealers who refuse to even participate in forums like this because they know that they will become a target for retribution. So instead they stay completely silent and do not participate at all. "
True. When I sold on eBay, I did so with a name nobody in my hobbies would connect with me to keep things separate.
If you are into keeping up on eBay and other on-line venues, I learn a lot on this website: http://www.ecommercebytes.com/. I get a daily blog email from them that tells me what's going on.
I've learned a lot about buyer scams, which are a lot more prevalent with buyers of consumer type merchandise. Also, those who complain about sellers are often sellers from the same categories hoping to cancel out the competition.
One thing I'd like to make folks aware of is the invasion of Chinese sellers masquerading as US sellers. Through some international trade mishap, these sellers can mail something to you cheaper than US sellers can. They sell merchandise that simply doesn't work. I got some USB cords that both my phone and computer instantly rejected with a warning that they would damage my electronics. If you complain back to the seller, they tell you to send it back for a refund since they know it would cost you more than you paid. Bad situation.
I needed a pair of washer nozzles for my Pt Cruiser, and there were tons of Buy It Nows, showing the source as China. I went with one that had an American flag on the photo of the product, and said they were in Secaucus, New Jersey. Once I paid, Paypal informed me I sent a payment to China. Beware!
Login to Like
this post