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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

 

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Snick1946
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APS Life Member

05 Jun 2017
10:47:45am
Has anyone else had any experience with this firm, based in Denmark?

I admit to cross posting here. I had an active thread on another forum about a situation with my receiving unsolicited merchandise from them with an invoice for over $100 US. I have by now sent five messages to them with no response. The invoice is now past due, and If others have had any luck in resolving issues dealing with them, I'd like to know how you did it.

I am not going to repeat the whole sorry story here, unless asked. This has me terribly worried. Any input welcomed.
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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Jun 2017
11:30:28am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

They seem well respected so not sure what the problem is - they have been in business over 50 years.

They are members of both the International Federation of Stamp Dealers Associations (IFSDA) and The International Association of Publishers of Stamp Catalogues, Albums, and Philatelic Magazines (ASCAT). If problems persist you might reach out to either or both of these organizations. Their President is a board member of IFSDA.

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Snick1946
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05 Jun 2017
11:49:32am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

That was my concern, that I would be effectively prevented from future orders if an unpaid debt is showing on my account. And the fact that would be on their record, no matter if unjustified.

I will accept the apparent majority feeling that my concerns are unwarranted. Thanks for replies.

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scb
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Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!

05 Jun 2017
11:59:43am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

They are legit and good. I would also add that European Union has got MUCH tighter consumer rights legislation than US, and it heavily protects the buyer. So it is very unlikely they would try any foul play what is just mere pittance for them (they are the largest stamp dealer in Northern hemisphere, possibly even globally).

If you contacted them through email, then the most likely option is that your email was marked as spam and auto-deleted without you or them receiving any kind of acknowledgedment . It happens much more frequently than ISPs (like AOL or RoadRunner or Yahoo) like to admit, and there is very little either you or NordFrim can do to fix it.

If you want to get the issue solved, give their customer service a call. +45 64821256 (Monday-Thursday 08:00 AM until 04:30 PM CET, Friday 08:00 AM until 03:30 PM CET).


-k-

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Dakota
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05 Jun 2017
01:24:29pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I have had positive experiences in my past dealings with Nordfrim. I am getting ready to make another purchase from them.

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GMOUKEH

05 Jun 2017
04:02:11pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I dealt with them many times, they are trustful / respectful company, one time I purchase Yvert catalog of middle east and delay in delivery, I contact with them (many emails) and sent another copy without any extra payment. their defect as I think are no good response system to your emails, and they send the purchases with standard mail (without tracking number), that creates misunderstanding usually.

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Snick1946
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06 Jun 2017
10:59:51am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Absolutely my last comment.

My last contact with them was in an online chat with one of their staff. We were visiting rather well until I explained why I was messaging and gave her the order #. Once she knew it involved supplements she clearly wanted to end the conversation. I wanted to ask a follow up question but she had hung up already, no goodbye, nothing.

They must be getting a lot of these. Wanna bet this is the last time they will do this sort of thing?

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michael78651

06 Jun 2017
11:10:42am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

As probably many of you do, I too get advertisements from this company. I had been considering whether to one day order from them or not. I have found the discussion to be enlightening. Thanks.

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stampmanjack

APS Life Member

07 Jun 2017
01:50:12am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

A friend of mine in New Jersey and I have been ordering from them and we are both very happy. Their on line catalogs are great with prices in euros, pounds and dollars and besides there big catalog that comes with Linn's, I get email offers almost every day. I find their lots and prices to be excellent. I collect both North and South Korea and they recently had a large lot of mint North Korea wit a huge number of stamps and souvenir sheets for $72. I ordered it and the cat on it was $1400.

My only problem with them is their shipping costs. It is $6 to $50, $17 from $50 to $175 and free over $175. $50 is $6 andr $51 is $17 so you have to watch. A couple of times, I have picked out $52 and had to scale back to avoid the larger postage charge. My friend and I quite often combine orders to get the free postage over $175.

Their first day cover lots are great. My friend has gotten a lot of nice Greenland, Aland and Faroes from them and I get what she doesn't need which makes it a double benefit for us.
stampmanjack

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khj
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07 Jun 2017
02:54:34am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I am going to add a little more detail here that has not been stated, so that readers will better understand the specific situation and know how to avoid the cause of the original problem.

An album was purchased online. At the very end of the description on the purchasing page it states that the buyer is also subscribing to supplements. This was not stated in the print catalog that the buyer originally looked at.

I made the following points:

-- the automatic subscription is put at the end of a long description of the product, and not in a separate paragraph where it is conspicuous (in my opinion, this is a poor business practice for this particular product; and courts have ruled time and time again that these types of simple automatic subscription clauses are considered deceptive and not enforceable unless they are conscipious and/or separately agreed to)

-- there is no price stated for the supplements (they don't tell you what they are going to charge you)

-- there is no opt-out provision

-- the supplements were sent ~1 year later to the buyer with no warning or preliminary billing statement

I think Nordfrim has probably realized they made a mistake in signing people up for automatic supplement subscriptions in this manner and shipping them without notice (what if the person moved since then?!?). Given their sales revenue, they are likely just writing off the loss and ignoring complaints to save time and further expense.

I think it was good of the OP to bring this up (although I wished the specific purchase details were given) so that others will be aware of the possibility of being signed up for automatic supplements when they buy an album from Nordfrim. I don't know if they are still doing this. In other words, the problem is pretty specific, rather than a problem with the entire company.

I do agree with Anglophile, just to let it go -- you've made the good faith effort to let Nordfrim know. Go back and enjoy your stamps. The only thing you have to do is just check your credit card statement to make sure they didn't charge you -- something we are all supposed to do anyway).

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Snick1946
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APS Life Member

07 Jun 2017
02:05:23pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Indeed I am no longer worried as before.Once I made the contact via the chat function with someone there who couldn't gt off fast enough, I sort of knew I had nothing to worry about. I have decided that come what may, i will no longer be purchasing these from them, thus no worries about this being brought up if I order again. . The short term price is a bargain. Long term, it is not. I bought albums for Iceland, Sweden and Denmark. I have not opened the packages as yet but got five supplements. For Denmark and Sweden they sent what look to be supplements for ATM stamps. Something i do not collect and for which I purchased no pages with the original order.

I may not be alone in from time to time moving my collection around to try different albums. The idea that you will be using an album for decades may apply to some but not to others.

Thanks to all responding. It is amusing- wonder what they lost doing this dumb deal?

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khj
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07 Jun 2017
04:48:02pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I'm sure somebody there thought it was a good idea at the time...

Laughing

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michael78651

07 Jun 2017
05:02:39pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

They used to say to conserve water don't flush after each use...that idea went down the drain rather quickly...

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scb
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Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!

08 Jun 2017
03:01:17am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I did some digging of old NordFrim catalogs here (have been their customers for a LONG time, and rarely throw stuff out), and it seems that the subscription type switch occurred few years back.

In older mail order catalogs there is always a BIG note (usually with bright yellow background) 'pre-subscribe to annual supplements', in recent print catalogs there is a somewhat non-notable single line statement in style 'you will receive annual supplements until you cancel them out'.

IMHO it is clearly stated in recent mail order catalogs, but easily sinks in with all the other text if you don't read it with care.

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Image Not Found

One thing that comes to mind in here is 'cultural clash'... In Europe we have got something known as '14 day policy' regarding remote sales (mail order, online sales, telephone sales, door-to-door etc). Basically it is a right to cancel and return any remote order within 14 days from receival, for any reason and with no justification, with (usually the) seller paying all the fees. Maybe something as such not exists in the US, but here in Europe it is somewhat widely used.

But in all scenarios it doesn't justify the poor customer service communications.


"I'm sure somebody there thought it was a good idea at the time..."



This is a subscription society we live in, and part of me loves it whereas the other part hates it Clown

-k-
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khj
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08 Jun 2017
09:54:38am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Indeed, I agree that automatic subscription renewals can be beneficial. I also appreciate you digging through some of your Nordfrim catalogs to provide info on this matter, scb.

I am curious, and am asking this question without the benefit of a Nordfrim catalog.

The issue the OP had was that he simply purchased a country album online. One year later, they sent him the supplements.

I'm looking at the catalog snippets provided, and to be honest, I would have come to the conclusion that the subscription is something I have to sign up for and then it would automatically renew each year. Especially since it say "Temporarily sold out" next to that footnote on page 9.

So to make sure I understand everything clearly -- if I order an album from Nordfrim, I will automatically be signed up for a supplement subscription that continues until I request it to be stopped. If I don't want the subscription, I should contact Nordfrim immediately after I buy a country album and cancel the subscription? I'm also assuming that I have to do that each time I order a country album from them, even if I'm ordering a Part I country album? I realize nobody here is responsible for Nordfrim customer service so I'm not expecting an answer, and I appreciate the catalog snippets. I was just going through my mind things I might need to look into if I ever ordered a country album from them...

I find this rather interesting. Sorry if I sounded very critical at first. I do realize that different cultures/regions do/expect things differently, and there is often a good reason.

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khj
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08 Jun 2017
10:56:41am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

One of my points in the other forum was that no supplement price was ever stated, whether free or $100. I realize that you can't always predict the price one year from now, especially since several countries have new issues quantities that can vary considerably from year to year. But it does imply a certain amount of trust that they won't be charging you something ridiculous (at least in the US).

I wasn't aware of the 14-day right of full return in Europe that is written into law. In the US, it's pretty much whatever the company policy states -- except if the item is not as described.

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scb
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Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!

08 Jun 2017
01:52:50pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

"So to make sure I understand everything clearly -- if I order an album from Nordfrim, I will automatically be signed up for a supplement subscription that continues until I request it to be stopped. If I don't want the subscription, I should contact Nordfrim immediately after I buy a country album and cancel the subscription? I'm also assuming that I have to do that each time I order a country album from them, even if I'm ordering a Part I country album?"



Yep, yep, and yep IMO. But of course that is just my personal view, for official stand you'd have to contact Nordfrim representatives.


"I find this rather interesting. Sorry if I sounded very critical at first. I do realize that different cultures/regions do/expect things differently, and there is often a good reason."



Couldn't agree more with you... Likely this is number one reason why US companies never succeed in Europe, and vice versa. The regional business culture is simply too alien.

For example if I would have any issues with NordFrim (or any other European stamp supplier), I would have at first tried to contact the company in question, and if that would have failed to provide a working solution, then I would have contacted either the local or Danish Consumer Authority and asked for advice. They have no legal power, but their job is to monitor that business follow the governing consumer rights, provide free councilling, and if necessary report misbehavior to legal bodies.

In general we Europeans are warned that the 'world out there' has no consumer rights like we know, and buying from US, Asia etc. is 'wild wild west' that you do at your own responsibility... But when buying from Europe, things don't work like that. Even the Americans get same level of protection as we Europeans, because any business registered here must follow the governing legislation (thus I am slightly 'shocked' by original posters story).


"In scb's top image, of the bottom of page 9, if this is the current language, puts the company in a very poor position. To me, it communicates that if you buy an album, you automatically get supplements annually for free. Nothing is said about "subscription" or payment of any kind. It sounds like they are included in the original purchase."



Now that you say it... Rolling On The Floor Laughing

But of course the legislation here is Europe is very much different. Though the starting point of European consumer legislation is to 'protect the customer in all situations', there is also a rule that 'if the offer is too good to be true, then the customer should have realized it and asked for clarification if in doubt'. Common sense, what would the world be without it.

-k-


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khj
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08 Jun 2017
02:25:32pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Thanks for the detailed reply -k- !

k

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Blaamand
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WW collector at heart

09 Jun 2017
09:31:08pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Interesting discussion and valid inputs.

As to answer the question in the OP - I'll share mine. I've done business with Nordfrim and have experienced excellent service and prompt response from them. Always friendly and they have tailor suited their delivery time etc just as I have asked them to. They were instructed not to deliver a pallet full of albums at my front door when I myself was in Brazil (as I suspect my wife would not appreciate it too much Crying). The delivery came when I was home, exactly as requested - and with no shipping cost at all.
And the best part is that their pricing is far better than any others, at least where I live. I am involved in new dealings with them right now, and it is nothing but pleasure as I see it. Sorry for you that had this bad experience tough.

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ClayMorgan
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11 Jun 2017
11:08:36am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I have been looking at placing an order from Nordfrim, but have not done so yet.

My similar experience - though certainly not $100 worth of experience - is Mystic.

It seems every time I buy supplies from them they send me a very small selection on approval, unsolicited.

I've never returned them, never paid for them, and have never had a problem ordering more stuff. Of course, their selection might be worth a buck or two...

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Snick1946
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APS Life Member

11 Jun 2017
01:36:35pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I managed to get Mystic to stop doing that. I place maybe one order year with them, usually to get the annual supplement for the album or maybe an extra binder.

Usually about six months later they start sending out the letters asking if I want to sell my collection. Someone there must think they're the only game in town.

Biggest problem is the large volume of mailings I get from them. A new catalog yearly or so is fine. But, every week? I must have 25 catalogs from them I will need to recycle soon. Have tried giving them away, leaving them in publc places, etc. They are coming faster than I can keep up.

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Snick1946
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26 Jun 2017
10:33:24am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I more or less forced a reply out of Nordfrim, left a very negative review of them on a consumer review website on which someone from them had left responses. Sure enough I got this reply posted on that site today:

"Thank you very much for your review. We highly appreciate your feedback.

We have looked into the matter and we are very sorry that it was not clearly evident that supplements automatically are sent when purchasing pre-printed albums. We have updated the article descriptions for pre-printed albums on our website as well as in our brochures to avoid similar misunderstandings.

We are very sorry for any inconvenience caused in this matter. It is my understanding that the supplements have been credited on your account and we hereby confirm that you no longer are signed up to receive supplements. We hope you are satisfied with the solution. "

Well yes I am, thank you. I don't owe them anything presently and can keep the supplements. Gosh, they still couldn't even send me a direct reply.

I still find it incredulous that this company apparently wants to consign buyers of their wares to a lifetime of involuntary servitude of getting and paying for supplements. I have never heard of such a thing until now. I doubt it is sustainable for long.

I posted this with the idea to warn off others who might be taken in by what looks like bargain prices. Decide for yourself, just know what you are getting into if you buy from them. Case closed.

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michael78651

26 Jun 2017
11:45:24am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

"I still find it incredulous that this company apparently wants to consign buyers of their wares to a lifetime of involuntary servitude of getting and paying for supplements. I have never heard of such a thing until now."



That is the growing tactic with magazine subscriptions, and other retail merchants. Get the first year, for only a few months for free, or at a low cost, and then the subscription auto-renews annually at a much higher price. The subscriber has to proactively notify the subscription service for the magazine to cancel, or else it renews.

Mystic usually puts in their ads and order forms that "a group of interesting stamps will be sent on approval with your order". When I see that from any dealer, I write a note that they are not to send approvals, and if they do, I will not return them.

As I say so often in the auctions here, be sure to read the terms of sale. Merchants are getting sneaky with different ways to put money in their coffers. When you send in an order, you have agreed to the terms, including any future "backdoor" purchases. I don't agree with those practices as I believe them to be underhanded as merchants know that many people don't read the terms of sale.
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malcolm197

09 Jul 2017
11:57:46am
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

As you know the UK is negotiating an exit from the European Union.

However the ethos which governs many of the consumer laws promulgated by said EU was alive and well prior to our joining, and will no doubt continue long after we have left ( if in fact we ever do ). Consumerism is embedded in our DNA,, and we are much wedded to the idea of small and medium businesses rather than large multinationals ( Coca Cola et al take note !).

The statutory body of Trading Standards ( and incidentally in other circumstances, of the Health and Safety Executive ) are capable of applying pressure on traders, and there is a vociferous body of amateur organisations and individuals,newspaper and TV programmes ready to take up cudgels on our behalf.

When allegations of sharp practice come to light the negative publicity does wonders. The downside of this is that occasionally allegations of doubtful merit are sometimes aired to the detriment of the innocent. If you are not careful a sort of "lynch law" can be created- and sometimes said newspapers/TV programmes are not as careful as they could. Never let the facts get in the way of boosting circulation !

Malcolm

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Snick1946
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06 Nov 2017
05:40:01pm
re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

A few months back I decided to send Nordfrim an order, just to see if they would try to bill me for the supplements alluded to. They didn't. I have since sent several orders for Lighthouse albums and now note on my last order (over $500) they have me set up on open account! I can make payments on larger purchases. I am careful not to order anything that obligates me for supplements.

My bad experience before may have been an analomy. Just felt I ought to post something good after all the bad.

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
05 Jun 2017
10:47:45am

Has anyone else had any experience with this firm, based in Denmark?

I admit to cross posting here. I had an active thread on another forum about a situation with my receiving unsolicited merchandise from them with an invoice for over $100 US. I have by now sent five messages to them with no response. The invoice is now past due, and If others have had any luck in resolving issues dealing with them, I'd like to know how you did it.

I am not going to repeat the whole sorry story here, unless asked. This has me terribly worried. Any input welcomed.

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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Jun 2017
11:30:28am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

They seem well respected so not sure what the problem is - they have been in business over 50 years.

They are members of both the International Federation of Stamp Dealers Associations (IFSDA) and The International Association of Publishers of Stamp Catalogues, Albums, and Philatelic Magazines (ASCAT). If problems persist you might reach out to either or both of these organizations. Their President is a board member of IFSDA.

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
05 Jun 2017
11:49:32am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

That was my concern, that I would be effectively prevented from future orders if an unpaid debt is showing on my account. And the fact that would be on their record, no matter if unjustified.

I will accept the apparent majority feeling that my concerns are unwarranted. Thanks for replies.

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scb

Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!
05 Jun 2017
11:59:43am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

They are legit and good. I would also add that European Union has got MUCH tighter consumer rights legislation than US, and it heavily protects the buyer. So it is very unlikely they would try any foul play what is just mere pittance for them (they are the largest stamp dealer in Northern hemisphere, possibly even globally).

If you contacted them through email, then the most likely option is that your email was marked as spam and auto-deleted without you or them receiving any kind of acknowledgedment . It happens much more frequently than ISPs (like AOL or RoadRunner or Yahoo) like to admit, and there is very little either you or NordFrim can do to fix it.

If you want to get the issue solved, give their customer service a call. +45 64821256 (Monday-Thursday 08:00 AM until 04:30 PM CET, Friday 08:00 AM until 03:30 PM CET).


-k-

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Dakota

05 Jun 2017
01:24:29pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I have had positive experiences in my past dealings with Nordfrim. I am getting ready to make another purchase from them.

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GMOUKEH

05 Jun 2017
04:02:11pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I dealt with them many times, they are trustful / respectful company, one time I purchase Yvert catalog of middle east and delay in delivery, I contact with them (many emails) and sent another copy without any extra payment. their defect as I think are no good response system to your emails, and they send the purchases with standard mail (without tracking number), that creates misunderstanding usually.

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
06 Jun 2017
10:59:51am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Absolutely my last comment.

My last contact with them was in an online chat with one of their staff. We were visiting rather well until I explained why I was messaging and gave her the order #. Once she knew it involved supplements she clearly wanted to end the conversation. I wanted to ask a follow up question but she had hung up already, no goodbye, nothing.

They must be getting a lot of these. Wanna bet this is the last time they will do this sort of thing?

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michael78651

06 Jun 2017
11:10:42am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

As probably many of you do, I too get advertisements from this company. I had been considering whether to one day order from them or not. I have found the discussion to be enlightening. Thanks.

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stampmanjack

APS Life Member

07 Jun 2017
01:50:12am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

A friend of mine in New Jersey and I have been ordering from them and we are both very happy. Their on line catalogs are great with prices in euros, pounds and dollars and besides there big catalog that comes with Linn's, I get email offers almost every day. I find their lots and prices to be excellent. I collect both North and South Korea and they recently had a large lot of mint North Korea wit a huge number of stamps and souvenir sheets for $72. I ordered it and the cat on it was $1400.

My only problem with them is their shipping costs. It is $6 to $50, $17 from $50 to $175 and free over $175. $50 is $6 andr $51 is $17 so you have to watch. A couple of times, I have picked out $52 and had to scale back to avoid the larger postage charge. My friend and I quite often combine orders to get the free postage over $175.

Their first day cover lots are great. My friend has gotten a lot of nice Greenland, Aland and Faroes from them and I get what she doesn't need which makes it a double benefit for us.
stampmanjack

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khj

07 Jun 2017
02:54:34am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I am going to add a little more detail here that has not been stated, so that readers will better understand the specific situation and know how to avoid the cause of the original problem.

An album was purchased online. At the very end of the description on the purchasing page it states that the buyer is also subscribing to supplements. This was not stated in the print catalog that the buyer originally looked at.

I made the following points:

-- the automatic subscription is put at the end of a long description of the product, and not in a separate paragraph where it is conspicuous (in my opinion, this is a poor business practice for this particular product; and courts have ruled time and time again that these types of simple automatic subscription clauses are considered deceptive and not enforceable unless they are conscipious and/or separately agreed to)

-- there is no price stated for the supplements (they don't tell you what they are going to charge you)

-- there is no opt-out provision

-- the supplements were sent ~1 year later to the buyer with no warning or preliminary billing statement

I think Nordfrim has probably realized they made a mistake in signing people up for automatic supplement subscriptions in this manner and shipping them without notice (what if the person moved since then?!?). Given their sales revenue, they are likely just writing off the loss and ignoring complaints to save time and further expense.

I think it was good of the OP to bring this up (although I wished the specific purchase details were given) so that others will be aware of the possibility of being signed up for automatic supplements when they buy an album from Nordfrim. I don't know if they are still doing this. In other words, the problem is pretty specific, rather than a problem with the entire company.

I do agree with Anglophile, just to let it go -- you've made the good faith effort to let Nordfrim know. Go back and enjoy your stamps. The only thing you have to do is just check your credit card statement to make sure they didn't charge you -- something we are all supposed to do anyway).

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
07 Jun 2017
02:05:23pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Indeed I am no longer worried as before.Once I made the contact via the chat function with someone there who couldn't gt off fast enough, I sort of knew I had nothing to worry about. I have decided that come what may, i will no longer be purchasing these from them, thus no worries about this being brought up if I order again. . The short term price is a bargain. Long term, it is not. I bought albums for Iceland, Sweden and Denmark. I have not opened the packages as yet but got five supplements. For Denmark and Sweden they sent what look to be supplements for ATM stamps. Something i do not collect and for which I purchased no pages with the original order.

I may not be alone in from time to time moving my collection around to try different albums. The idea that you will be using an album for decades may apply to some but not to others.

Thanks to all responding. It is amusing- wonder what they lost doing this dumb deal?

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khj

07 Jun 2017
04:48:02pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I'm sure somebody there thought it was a good idea at the time...

Laughing

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michael78651

07 Jun 2017
05:02:39pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

They used to say to conserve water don't flush after each use...that idea went down the drain rather quickly...

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scb

Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!
08 Jun 2017
03:01:17am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I did some digging of old NordFrim catalogs here (have been their customers for a LONG time, and rarely throw stuff out), and it seems that the subscription type switch occurred few years back.

In older mail order catalogs there is always a BIG note (usually with bright yellow background) 'pre-subscribe to annual supplements', in recent print catalogs there is a somewhat non-notable single line statement in style 'you will receive annual supplements until you cancel them out'.

IMHO it is clearly stated in recent mail order catalogs, but easily sinks in with all the other text if you don't read it with care.

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One thing that comes to mind in here is 'cultural clash'... In Europe we have got something known as '14 day policy' regarding remote sales (mail order, online sales, telephone sales, door-to-door etc). Basically it is a right to cancel and return any remote order within 14 days from receival, for any reason and with no justification, with (usually the) seller paying all the fees. Maybe something as such not exists in the US, but here in Europe it is somewhat widely used.

But in all scenarios it doesn't justify the poor customer service communications.


"I'm sure somebody there thought it was a good idea at the time..."



This is a subscription society we live in, and part of me loves it whereas the other part hates it Clown

-k-
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khj

08 Jun 2017
09:54:38am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Indeed, I agree that automatic subscription renewals can be beneficial. I also appreciate you digging through some of your Nordfrim catalogs to provide info on this matter, scb.

I am curious, and am asking this question without the benefit of a Nordfrim catalog.

The issue the OP had was that he simply purchased a country album online. One year later, they sent him the supplements.

I'm looking at the catalog snippets provided, and to be honest, I would have come to the conclusion that the subscription is something I have to sign up for and then it would automatically renew each year. Especially since it say "Temporarily sold out" next to that footnote on page 9.

So to make sure I understand everything clearly -- if I order an album from Nordfrim, I will automatically be signed up for a supplement subscription that continues until I request it to be stopped. If I don't want the subscription, I should contact Nordfrim immediately after I buy a country album and cancel the subscription? I'm also assuming that I have to do that each time I order a country album from them, even if I'm ordering a Part I country album? I realize nobody here is responsible for Nordfrim customer service so I'm not expecting an answer, and I appreciate the catalog snippets. I was just going through my mind things I might need to look into if I ever ordered a country album from them...

I find this rather interesting. Sorry if I sounded very critical at first. I do realize that different cultures/regions do/expect things differently, and there is often a good reason.

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khj

08 Jun 2017
10:56:41am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

One of my points in the other forum was that no supplement price was ever stated, whether free or $100. I realize that you can't always predict the price one year from now, especially since several countries have new issues quantities that can vary considerably from year to year. But it does imply a certain amount of trust that they won't be charging you something ridiculous (at least in the US).

I wasn't aware of the 14-day right of full return in Europe that is written into law. In the US, it's pretty much whatever the company policy states -- except if the item is not as described.

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scb

Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!
08 Jun 2017
01:52:50pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

"So to make sure I understand everything clearly -- if I order an album from Nordfrim, I will automatically be signed up for a supplement subscription that continues until I request it to be stopped. If I don't want the subscription, I should contact Nordfrim immediately after I buy a country album and cancel the subscription? I'm also assuming that I have to do that each time I order a country album from them, even if I'm ordering a Part I country album?"



Yep, yep, and yep IMO. But of course that is just my personal view, for official stand you'd have to contact Nordfrim representatives.


"I find this rather interesting. Sorry if I sounded very critical at first. I do realize that different cultures/regions do/expect things differently, and there is often a good reason."



Couldn't agree more with you... Likely this is number one reason why US companies never succeed in Europe, and vice versa. The regional business culture is simply too alien.

For example if I would have any issues with NordFrim (or any other European stamp supplier), I would have at first tried to contact the company in question, and if that would have failed to provide a working solution, then I would have contacted either the local or Danish Consumer Authority and asked for advice. They have no legal power, but their job is to monitor that business follow the governing consumer rights, provide free councilling, and if necessary report misbehavior to legal bodies.

In general we Europeans are warned that the 'world out there' has no consumer rights like we know, and buying from US, Asia etc. is 'wild wild west' that you do at your own responsibility... But when buying from Europe, things don't work like that. Even the Americans get same level of protection as we Europeans, because any business registered here must follow the governing legislation (thus I am slightly 'shocked' by original posters story).


"In scb's top image, of the bottom of page 9, if this is the current language, puts the company in a very poor position. To me, it communicates that if you buy an album, you automatically get supplements annually for free. Nothing is said about "subscription" or payment of any kind. It sounds like they are included in the original purchase."



Now that you say it... Rolling On The Floor Laughing

But of course the legislation here is Europe is very much different. Though the starting point of European consumer legislation is to 'protect the customer in all situations', there is also a rule that 'if the offer is too good to be true, then the customer should have realized it and asked for clarification if in doubt'. Common sense, what would the world be without it.

-k-


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khj

08 Jun 2017
02:25:32pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Thanks for the detailed reply -k- !

k

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Blaamand

WW collector at heart
09 Jun 2017
09:31:08pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

Interesting discussion and valid inputs.

As to answer the question in the OP - I'll share mine. I've done business with Nordfrim and have experienced excellent service and prompt response from them. Always friendly and they have tailor suited their delivery time etc just as I have asked them to. They were instructed not to deliver a pallet full of albums at my front door when I myself was in Brazil (as I suspect my wife would not appreciate it too much Crying). The delivery came when I was home, exactly as requested - and with no shipping cost at all.
And the best part is that their pricing is far better than any others, at least where I live. I am involved in new dealings with them right now, and it is nothing but pleasure as I see it. Sorry for you that had this bad experience tough.

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ClayMorgan

Member APS.
11 Jun 2017
11:08:36am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I have been looking at placing an order from Nordfrim, but have not done so yet.

My similar experience - though certainly not $100 worth of experience - is Mystic.

It seems every time I buy supplies from them they send me a very small selection on approval, unsolicited.

I've never returned them, never paid for them, and have never had a problem ordering more stuff. Of course, their selection might be worth a buck or two...

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
11 Jun 2017
01:36:35pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I managed to get Mystic to stop doing that. I place maybe one order year with them, usually to get the annual supplement for the album or maybe an extra binder.

Usually about six months later they start sending out the letters asking if I want to sell my collection. Someone there must think they're the only game in town.

Biggest problem is the large volume of mailings I get from them. A new catalog yearly or so is fine. But, every week? I must have 25 catalogs from them I will need to recycle soon. Have tried giving them away, leaving them in publc places, etc. They are coming faster than I can keep up.

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
26 Jun 2017
10:33:24am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

I more or less forced a reply out of Nordfrim, left a very negative review of them on a consumer review website on which someone from them had left responses. Sure enough I got this reply posted on that site today:

"Thank you very much for your review. We highly appreciate your feedback.

We have looked into the matter and we are very sorry that it was not clearly evident that supplements automatically are sent when purchasing pre-printed albums. We have updated the article descriptions for pre-printed albums on our website as well as in our brochures to avoid similar misunderstandings.

We are very sorry for any inconvenience caused in this matter. It is my understanding that the supplements have been credited on your account and we hereby confirm that you no longer are signed up to receive supplements. We hope you are satisfied with the solution. "

Well yes I am, thank you. I don't owe them anything presently and can keep the supplements. Gosh, they still couldn't even send me a direct reply.

I still find it incredulous that this company apparently wants to consign buyers of their wares to a lifetime of involuntary servitude of getting and paying for supplements. I have never heard of such a thing until now. I doubt it is sustainable for long.

I posted this with the idea to warn off others who might be taken in by what looks like bargain prices. Decide for yourself, just know what you are getting into if you buy from them. Case closed.

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michael78651

26 Jun 2017
11:45:24am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

"I still find it incredulous that this company apparently wants to consign buyers of their wares to a lifetime of involuntary servitude of getting and paying for supplements. I have never heard of such a thing until now."



That is the growing tactic with magazine subscriptions, and other retail merchants. Get the first year, for only a few months for free, or at a low cost, and then the subscription auto-renews annually at a much higher price. The subscriber has to proactively notify the subscription service for the magazine to cancel, or else it renews.

Mystic usually puts in their ads and order forms that "a group of interesting stamps will be sent on approval with your order". When I see that from any dealer, I write a note that they are not to send approvals, and if they do, I will not return them.

As I say so often in the auctions here, be sure to read the terms of sale. Merchants are getting sneaky with different ways to put money in their coffers. When you send in an order, you have agreed to the terms, including any future "backdoor" purchases. I don't agree with those practices as I believe them to be underhanded as merchants know that many people don't read the terms of sale.
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malcolm197

09 Jul 2017
11:57:46am

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

As you know the UK is negotiating an exit from the European Union.

However the ethos which governs many of the consumer laws promulgated by said EU was alive and well prior to our joining, and will no doubt continue long after we have left ( if in fact we ever do ). Consumerism is embedded in our DNA,, and we are much wedded to the idea of small and medium businesses rather than large multinationals ( Coca Cola et al take note !).

The statutory body of Trading Standards ( and incidentally in other circumstances, of the Health and Safety Executive ) are capable of applying pressure on traders, and there is a vociferous body of amateur organisations and individuals,newspaper and TV programmes ready to take up cudgels on our behalf.

When allegations of sharp practice come to light the negative publicity does wonders. The downside of this is that occasionally allegations of doubtful merit are sometimes aired to the detriment of the innocent. If you are not careful a sort of "lynch law" can be created- and sometimes said newspapers/TV programmes are not as careful as they could. Never let the facts get in the way of boosting circulation !

Malcolm

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Snick1946

APS Life Member
06 Nov 2017
05:40:01pm

re: Nordfrim- Anyone Care to Share Experiences?

A few months back I decided to send Nordfrim an order, just to see if they would try to bill me for the supplements alluded to. They didn't. I have since sent several orders for Lighthouse albums and now note on my last order (over $500) they have me set up on open account! I can make payments on larger purchases. I am careful not to order anything that obligates me for supplements.

My bad experience before may have been an analomy. Just felt I ought to post something good after all the bad.

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