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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

 

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dell4c

13 Nov 2017
09:54:34pm

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I understand from a forum post that the pre cancels from French colonies pre independence are listed in that catalog. I would to get a list of them and the stamps they occurred on. I will gladly pay you for your effort. Please contact me via the message system here to arrange details

Thanks

Bob

(Modified by Moderator on 2017-11-15 09:26:18)
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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

14 Nov 2017
01:41:16am

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Bob: From my Y&T 2007 catalog, the relevant page for Early France Precancelled Stamps.
I am posting it here because it may be of value to other interested France collectors.
2007 prices are all in Euros. As you can see, the 1893 series stamps are pretty expensive, hard to get...and need certificates (lots of counterfeit overprints on core legitimate stamps...same rule applies to all the other expensive precancelled, especially the 1920-21 stamps).
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

14 Nov 2017
02:40:04am

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I believe Bob is looking for the colonies, not for continental France. Still nice to see how expensive and rare these precancels must be. I only know the half circle affranchi type, which is pretty common.

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StampCollector
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14 Nov 2017
12:03:51pm

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

My 2006 Yvert & Tellier comes with euro pricing, this must be an old catalog otherwise those
prices are out of this world.

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rjan
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14 Nov 2017
06:07:30pm
re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I only recall pre-obliteres (pre-cancels) for Algeria in my 2013 Y&T French Colonies. But I only deal with African colonies. There are 19 listed, all on definitive issues. I can send/post a scan if you desire.

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rjan
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14 Nov 2017
06:14:11pm
re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Just reviewed Y&T catalog closer and noted 8 pre-obliteres from Tunisia.

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

14 Nov 2017
07:23:49pm

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

This is my Y&t vs Scott list (need to be double checked..done a while ago):
Algeria- Precancelled stamps
Description Y&T Scott

1924-26
4c 1 4
5c 2 6
15c Lined sower 3 9
15c Pasteur 4 10
20c Sower 5 12
30c Sower 6 15
35c Sower 7 17
45c Pasteur 8 19

1926-39
10c Door 9 37
15c Tower 10 38
20c Tower 11 39
25c Tower 12 41
45c Mosque 13 48

1944-45
30c on 15c 14 187

Arms 1947-49
2.50F 15 216
4F 16 219

Arms 1956-58
1F 17 274
5F 18 277

Postage Due 1944
T 0.50 on 20c 19 J27


rrr....

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dell4c

14 Nov 2017
10:09:39pm

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Thanks Guys!!!

That is exactly what I was looking for.

Its great to have folks like the group on here to help out when you need information.


Bob

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dell4c

15 Nov 2017
08:35:52pm

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Here's what I have come up with - thanks for all the help

I think there is one correction needed for your list rrraphy - the 45 pasture is Scott #21 in my 2011 Scott not# 19.


I've made up the attached pages to go with my Steiner albums, Now to find the stamps Happy

Bob

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

15 Nov 2017
11:34:18pm

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Yes, thanks for the correction.
Nice layout.

Your last line of the Algeria Pre cancels has Scott #219 twice. There are 4 "arms" precancels.

The Tunisia 1929 10c on 30c is Sc number 120 I believe.

rrr...

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dell4c

16 Nov 2017
10:36:43am

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

The two copies of 219 are because I found that it has 2 different precancel overprints. It appears that it and 274 and 277 have a smaller precancel with the top of the circle (over the A) pointing right and lower on the stamp. On all the others and on another 217 the overprint is a little larger and the circle points up to the left.


And thanks for catching my error on the Tunisia 120.

Bob

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

23 Nov 2017
01:38:06pm

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

The joys of completing a new page...
(Caveat: Now I need a precancel 35c Scott #17, for my main Algeria collection, as I raided my album page to finish this one...).
Thanks Bob for the use of the template.
rrr....

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dell4c

23 Nov 2017
03:50:59pm

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re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I am jealous - you completed the Algeria Page way ahead of me Surprise

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dollhaus

23 Nov 2017
04:46:38pm
re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I really wonder if the postage due stamp is a true precancel. Y&T does not list it in its 'preobliteres' list but does give the stamp a regular listing in Postage Dues (No. 28) with the note (translated) 'Precanceled stamp from 1938-41 surcharged:'

It looks like Algeria, in 1944, felt there was a need for a 50 centime PD and did not have one - the then-current series had a 30c and a 60c, but no 50c. Some change in postage rates may have triggered this. They looked for a quick solution and decided to overprint some available stamps and chose the 20c precancel (large stock on hand?). The overprint was a large 'T' (for 'Taxe a Percevoir', I assume) and 0.50. In 1947, a new PD series came out, and this one had a 50c.

Does the overprint in effect cancel the precancel and make this a regular PD stamp? Was the precancel feature ever used for this stamp? Was it used just like all the other PD stamps of the time? If it was used in the same manner as all the other PDs, it seems that calling it a precancel would be a misnomer.

Just food for thought.

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Author/Postings
dell4c

13 Nov 2017
09:54:34pm

Approvals

I understand from a forum post that the pre cancels from French colonies pre independence are listed in that catalog. I would to get a list of them and the stamps they occurred on. I will gladly pay you for your effort. Please contact me via the message system here to arrange details

Thanks

Bob

(Modified by Moderator on 2017-11-15 09:26:18)

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
14 Nov 2017
01:41:16am

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Bob: From my Y&T 2007 catalog, the relevant page for Early France Precancelled Stamps.
I am posting it here because it may be of value to other interested France collectors.
2007 prices are all in Euros. As you can see, the 1893 series stamps are pretty expensive, hard to get...and need certificates (lots of counterfeit overprints on core legitimate stamps...same rule applies to all the other expensive precancelled, especially the 1920-21 stamps).
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
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Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
14 Nov 2017
02:40:04am

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I believe Bob is looking for the colonies, not for continental France. Still nice to see how expensive and rare these precancels must be. I only know the half circle affranchi type, which is pretty common.

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StampCollector

14 Nov 2017
12:03:51pm

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

My 2006 Yvert & Tellier comes with euro pricing, this must be an old catalog otherwise those
prices are out of this world.

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colnect.com/en/colle ...
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rjan

14 Nov 2017
06:07:30pm

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I only recall pre-obliteres (pre-cancels) for Algeria in my 2013 Y&T French Colonies. But I only deal with African colonies. There are 19 listed, all on definitive issues. I can send/post a scan if you desire.

Like
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this post
Members Picture
rjan

14 Nov 2017
06:14:11pm

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Just reviewed Y&T catalog closer and noted 8 pre-obliteres from Tunisia.

Like
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this post
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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
14 Nov 2017
07:23:49pm

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

This is my Y&t vs Scott list (need to be double checked..done a while ago):
Algeria- Precancelled stamps
Description Y&T Scott

1924-26
4c 1 4
5c 2 6
15c Lined sower 3 9
15c Pasteur 4 10
20c Sower 5 12
30c Sower 6 15
35c Sower 7 17
45c Pasteur 8 19

1926-39
10c Door 9 37
15c Tower 10 38
20c Tower 11 39
25c Tower 12 41
45c Mosque 13 48

1944-45
30c on 15c 14 187

Arms 1947-49
2.50F 15 216
4F 16 219

Arms 1956-58
1F 17 274
5F 18 277

Postage Due 1944
T 0.50 on 20c 19 J27


rrr....

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
dell4c

14 Nov 2017
10:09:39pm

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Thanks Guys!!!

That is exactly what I was looking for.

Its great to have folks like the group on here to help out when you need information.


Bob

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this post
dell4c

15 Nov 2017
08:35:52pm

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Here's what I have come up with - thanks for all the help

I think there is one correction needed for your list rrraphy - the 45 pasture is Scott #21 in my 2011 Scott not# 19.


I've made up the attached pages to go with my Steiner albums, Now to find the stamps Happy

Bob

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
15 Nov 2017
11:34:18pm

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

Yes, thanks for the correction.
Nice layout.

Your last line of the Algeria Pre cancels has Scott #219 twice. There are 4 "arms" precancels.

The Tunisia 1929 10c on 30c is Sc number 120 I believe.

rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
dell4c

16 Nov 2017
10:36:43am

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

The two copies of 219 are because I found that it has 2 different precancel overprints. It appears that it and 274 and 277 have a smaller precancel with the top of the circle (over the A) pointing right and lower on the stamp. On all the others and on another 217 the overprint is a little larger and the circle points up to the left.


And thanks for catching my error on the Tunisia 120.

Bob

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
23 Nov 2017
01:38:06pm

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

The joys of completing a new page...
(Caveat: Now I need a precancel 35c Scott #17, for my main Algeria collection, as I raided my album page to finish this one...).
Thanks Bob for the use of the template.
rrr....

Image Not Found

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this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
dell4c

23 Nov 2017
03:50:59pm

Approvals

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I am jealous - you completed the Algeria Page way ahead of me Surprise

Like
Login to Like
this post
dollhaus

23 Nov 2017
04:46:38pm

re: Looking for someone with a Yvert and tellier catalog

I really wonder if the postage due stamp is a true precancel. Y&T does not list it in its 'preobliteres' list but does give the stamp a regular listing in Postage Dues (No. 28) with the note (translated) 'Precanceled stamp from 1938-41 surcharged:'

It looks like Algeria, in 1944, felt there was a need for a 50 centime PD and did not have one - the then-current series had a 30c and a 60c, but no 50c. Some change in postage rates may have triggered this. They looked for a quick solution and decided to overprint some available stamps and chose the 20c precancel (large stock on hand?). The overprint was a large 'T' (for 'Taxe a Percevoir', I assume) and 0.50. In 1947, a new PD series came out, and this one had a 50c.

Does the overprint in effect cancel the precancel and make this a regular PD stamp? Was the precancel feature ever used for this stamp? Was it used just like all the other PD stamps of the time? If it was used in the same manner as all the other PDs, it seems that calling it a precancel would be a misnomer.

Just food for thought.

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likes this post.
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