Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
04:00:20am
To me a perfect SOTN would have virtually the entire circular cancellation on the stamp near center. The cancel ought to be clear enough that the place f cancelation as well as the date readable. An acceptable Sotn would have most of the cancellation on the stamp and meet the aforementioned legibility standard, except of course where nineteenth century fancy cancellers were standard.
Lately I have seen some stamps described as Sotns where barely half the circular cancel is on the stamp. And I think I remember a few weeks ago seeing a stamp with it being described as an SOTN that had little more than a quarter of the cancel on the stamp.
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I can't see a debate here, just sellers adding a nice searchable "SOTN" to their listings.
These are SOTN. Anything else isn't.
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"Pardon my ignorance" but I assume that SOTN is an acronim for something.
Please explain for us, the great unwashed and uneducated masses.
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It is the title - socked on the nose!
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As said on numerous occasions, we are separated by a common language!!
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It's always been SON to me also. I have only very rarely seen it abbreviated as SOTN.
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According to "The Stamp Collector's Encyclopedia" by R.J. Sutton:
"'Socked on the nose' is a USA colloquialism defining a stamp with a centered, legible, and full town and date cancel."
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I learned it as SOTN - Socked On The Nose - from Pat Herst.
As the OP says, that's not SOTSOTF (Socked On The Side Of The Face), or BOTE (Boxed On The Ear).
When the CDS is part-on part-off, the correct descriptor is "tied".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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An eBay search for "SON" in the stamps category yielded 9,228 items. A search for "SOTN" returned 9,230. I couldn't have made that up if I tried!
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11:39:00pm
That is what I thought.
Then here are sellers on SoR that do not understand that any thing less is false advertising, akin to putting up a stamp MNH that has a hinge still firmly attached, or a perf 11 x 10 that is clearly perf 8.
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"An eBay search for "SON" in the stamps category yielded 9,228 items. A search for "SOTN" returned 9,230. I couldn't have made that up if I tried!"
That is so awesome!
Did we just decide that tie goes to the runner? (Which really isn't a rule after all).
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Charlie, stamp terminology has been bastardized so much over the centuries of collecting that the hobby terminology means different things to each collector despite what the different catalogs (which are rather consistent with each other) describe/define. In addition, many people don't take the time to read the catalogs beyond the catalog numbers and values.
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10:17:41am
" ... many people don't take the time to read the catalogs
beyond the catalog numbers and values. ..."
Don't I know that. If newbies were to read the intros
I bet half the questions being asked would be answered.
Fortunately most of the mis-identified SOTNs seem to be
very inexpensive stamps that are hardly worth worrying about.
I just wondered what other members thought about it.
And perhaps some members having read the discussion
will be more particular in their descriptions.
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"... An eBay search for "SON" in the stamps category yielded 9,228 items ..."
CAUTION: homonyms may be closer than they appear.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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I think these qualify.
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yes, dealers will try anything to sell! I agree with the definition of SOTN, anything less is just a cancelled stamp. I also like them to be in the proper time period. With us all using up the vast hoard of old mint stamps, having 1950s commemoratives with 2018 postmarks on them just don't work for me!
My peeve.. dealers who list every old cover as "small town cancel".... Jersey City and Newark, NJ are not small towns. Geographically challenged dealers!
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12:31:08am
For many years the postal authorities have shown
their complete ignorance for what a collector may want.
That is because they consider their mission moving the
mail swiftly and efficiently, not satisfying collectors.
We can see examples all over the world of agencies who,
to satisfy collection fads, reverse those goals, the
worst being quite a few who print cancelled stamps
strictly for collectors and stamps that rarely get a
genuine cancellation, making their issues little more
than Jam Jar Labels and contrived collector trinkets.
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When they ignore us, they're cads.
When they cater to us, they're thieves.
Where's Goldilocks, now that we need her?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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In memory of Charlie Jensen, who took leave of us six months ago, here is an undoubtedly socked-on-the-nose cancel on a GB Machin which is as good as they come!
JTH
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Its great to see posts from folks like Charlie Jensen and Ikey Pikey who are no longer with us. They are not forgotten.
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"Its great to see posts from folks like Charlie Jensen and Ikey Pikey who are no longer with us. They are not forgotten."
Many thanks to Jthurd for reviving the thread with such nice memories and to Phil for adding to them. Both Charlie and Ikey Pikey were special 'stamp buddies' of mine. Charlie for the many years he sent me the USA Flag issues both Mint and Used in exchange for Machins. I always had the feeling he was more generous. We had some very nice interactions on a GB Stamp Group.
Ikey Pikey and I had many email exchanges about Israel, the Hebrew language and the stamps. He visited me on a trip to the Holy Land and we sat on my porch sipping tea and exchanging views.
Both are such fond memories of our departed friends.
But in keeping with the thread topic and to remember another dear friend, I'll post an example of a SON (or SOTN if you prefer) cancel from long ago........
I sold this example to David Dennis back in 2012 and I remember him being thrilled to receive it. I remember David too for the many exchanges and sales made between us. A great guy.
Rest in Peace guys.
Londonbus1
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Michael, how could i forget David Dennis...he stopped at our place twice in his travels..here is a picture with him and Sneaky and myself at Sneakys place in Cape Cod. Sneaky was a grand guy also.
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From my Collection: Mexico, Imperial Eagle of Maximilian I - Third Period, District 225-1864 - "VERACRUZ" used with Schatzkés Postmark: Sub-District: "SOLEDAD" with manuscript data, February 5, 1865. (This stamp is not the classic CDS, but it have the necessary data).
Regards,
Rodolfo
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Just found this one from Sweden in a still have to sort box.
.....
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I too remember David Dennis very fondly. We were in the Medicine Hat Coin and Stamp Club together and he was the one who introduced me to Stamporama. I purchased most of his collection upon his passing.
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From my Collection: Chile, Christopher Columbus, 50c., Red Brown, 1900-01 Issue, Perf. Rouletted, Unwmk., Type I. CDS Postmark: "VALPARAISO - CHILE", April 14, 1903.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria 1867-80 Issue, Three Pence Rose (CE) - Plate 8 with CDS. - "BLAYDON 'ON' TYNE", June 18, 1872. Scott 49a and SG103, Wmk.25
Great Britain, Queen Victoria 1867-80 Issue, Three Pence Rose (CE) - Plate 7 with CDS. - "MANCHESTER ROYAL EXCHANGE", May 14, 1872. Scott 49a and SG103, Wmk.25
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"Blaydon on Tyne" What a name! Love it
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Blaydon is famous in the North East of England. Its in the Newcastle/Gateshead area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PrMaVjH ...
The song is a favourite of Newcastle United Fans.
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"ernieinjax - "Blaydon on Tyne" What a name! Love it"
Yes, I agree with you, it is a nice and attractive name.
@Brechinite: Thanks for the information!
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For those interested in the Manchester Royal Exchange have a look at:-
http://www.revealinghistories.org.uk/why ...
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I like this one from Jersey
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From my Collection: 6d, Pink & Violet South Africa Revenue, King George V - 1913 Issue, very rich and fresh color!. Duty Stamp with CDS "INLAND REVENUE, UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA" 260 (Tax Office?), June 23, 1914.
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Here's a nice SON cancel on Sweden Scott# 153
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Does this count? I much prefer cancellations that don't obliterate portraits on stamps.
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Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1867 Issue, Six Pence - Plate 9 - (KE) with Wing margin and used with CDS "ATHERSTONE", March 21, 1872, rich color.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 2sh6p. Lilac, (BE), 1883 Issue with CDS: "Bishopsgate Street Without. E.C.", April 21, 1899. Scott #96 and SG179.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1878 Issue, VFU, Ten Shillings, Plate 1, (AA), Greenish Gray - Wmk. 26, Sc.74 / SG128, used with CDS ""DUBLIN SORTING OFFICE" - February 7, 1879".
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Kind of an interesting SON when you take a closer look at it.
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Of my last acquisitions now my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1881 Issue, VFU, One Penny, Lilac, (14 dots) - Wmk. 30, Sc.88 - SG171, used with CDS "RICHMOND - SURREY", October 31, 1881.
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Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1884 Issue, VFU, Four pence, Carmine Rose, (No letters), Plate (Were made Plate 1 and 2) - Wmk. 23, Sc.26a - SG66. Use with CDS Postmark "LONDON E.C. 5", October 15, 1858.
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From my Collection: Ceylon, Queen Victoria, 1899 Issue, VFU, 6c. Rose & Black, Strip of Three - Wmk. 2, Sc.134 - SG259 with CDS ""LINDULLA", July 16, 1902. (Now Sri Lanka - Lindula).
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Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1872-73 Issue, VFU, Six Pence, Plate 11, (OF) - Wmk. 25, Sc.59a (Deep Brown) - SG122 (Deep Chestnut), used with CDS "BIRMINGHAM TELEGRAPH OFFICE", May 21, 1872.
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A nice 10 pounder I caught in a box of kiloware with cancel from Alcester Warwickshire.
.....
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Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1872-73 Issue, VFU, Six Pence, (OD) - Wmk. 25, Sc.59 (Brown) - SG122a (Chestnut), used with CDS "LIVERPOOL - EXCHANGE", October 24, 1872.
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From my Collection: Australia - Mercury and Hemispheres, October 22, 1937 Issue, 1sh6p Violet Brown, used with CDS, "G.P.O. SYDNEY - N.S.W. AUST.", (JE?) June 6, 1941 - Scott No. C5.
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Seems to me a SON cancel should have the entire cancel on the stamp. Is this true, or is it up to each collector to decide.
The last posting some of the cancel does not show on the stamp!
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I've never come across the assertion that the entire cancel has to fit on the stamp in order to be considered to be SON/SOTN.
A collector would be free to limit himself or herself to such examples, of course, but that would be personal choice.
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From My British Collection:
-Ari 
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From my Collection - Mexico, Mail Coach stamp with CDS, "CERTIFICACION INERNACIONAL - MEXICO, D.F.", April 4, 1899. This type of Postmark are very difficult and scarce due to their little use. Regularly the name of the region or province was placed at the top.
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USA Scott #3786
One of my best SONs. Too bad the print quality is so poor.
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I do like this penny red with a London cancel.
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05:53:23pm
This one is close enough and I've never posted a SON before. #70d with certificate. Pale grey violet with a small thin and a blue postmark.
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A nice one for sure!
-Ari
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11:28:31am
Yeah, I like it too. I like the look of blue (and red) cancels and it's a really nice Baltimore MD cancel! As far as being a SOtN cancel, that's debatable, but it's close enough for me! I've got a few red precancels that are probably legit, but even if they aren't they look great!
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I must be blind, sorry I don't see any red cancel, please ad an arrow pointing to the red?
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11:40:08am
Sorry!! I should have been more clear - I said I liked red cancels, not that this one had one. That's why I put it in brackets but I guess I should have said "OR red", less confusing! It's obvious that this stamp has a blue cancel, not a red one. If anyone else was confused, I'm sorry and I apologize!
Do you ever feel that things are just going too fast? Got to slow down and think when I post something!
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Sorry, my mistake!
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Here is a nice red CDS socked-on-the-nose red cancel on a blue stamp -- the 15p "double-headed" Machin issued for the 150th anniversary of the 1840 penny black.
JTH
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Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1865, Four Pence Vermillion. Plate 12 - Used with CDS - "ALTON", May 12, 1873. Scott No.43 - SG94
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@rtvstamps
Do you know what the "B" stands for?
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I believe the "B" is for the district that P-O serves in its local area.
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That's a nice "ALTON" CDS.
There are a several Altons in England but this is probably from Alton in Hampshire which is by far the largest.
This office probably had multiple handstamps in use and this "B" would be just a way of identifying an individual handstamp.
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Correct!. In the publication of "REGISTRATION DISTRICTS IN HAMPSHIRE" Alton belonged to the District of Hampshire, but the latter shared the District with Berkshire partially until January 11, 1879; then the "B" must be from the Berkshire District.
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I knew that as I had done a lot of research on British cancels and what they mean for an article I'd written awhile ago...
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I'm not convinced about this suggested use of the "B" but I'm very happy to learn.
I see the reference to registration districts as a red herring. I don't believe these had any postal significance.
Does anyone have a reference documenting this Alton CDS and any specific purpose it may have had?
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I suspect it's just a "B", perhaps the second clerk/window, or some other such internal reason.
So here's a thought. If there is a "B" there would certainly be at least one more letter code, right? Will it be an "A", or an "H"? I'm betting on "A".
(If someone does post an "H" I'm not giving up. I'll redouble my (nonexistent) search efforts to come up with the missing "A" through "G" cancelers.)
And to steer us back on track, here is a little French Morocco number with quite a lot going on, including a fairly well-socked Casablanca cancel:
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Hi cjd,
I agree.
Maybe there was an "A" version if two handstamps were issued at once?
Maybe there was initially only one handstamp, without any letter at all?
Many nineteenth century British handstamps had an additional letter or number used to identify the specific handstamps.
I've seen these referred to as "hammer numbers" (as the cancelling device often looked like a hammer with a wooden handle).
I've also seen these referred to as "index numbers" and other terms.
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F-5 & W-47 I think this is a code for an area... 
Oh also they are both semi-SOTN by the way!
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From Hendy's The History of the Postmarks of the British Isles (1909):
When we get to GB squared-circle postmarks, I believe you also start to see some time codes, as well.
And back on track:
Hong Kong with a Treaty Port cancel from Amoy, 17 December 1914.
ETA: 1914
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Alright, I'll give you that, though what about the digit codes?
W-47 is a time stamp too?
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I have some of that information too, but it's a bit confusing, as @Pennyblk mentions, in the case of the W, what? Does the board (below) go up to the M and everything else?
Postal directors allowed the use of codes for specific service conditions. Many brands have codes on the date stamp. In many cases, and in the case of numerical codes, these identified the brand itself, that is, the office. When the codes are letters, they normally identify the time of receipt or sending.
From 1857 onwards, automatic cancelling machines began to be used in London, and within a few years they spread to many other offices in the United Kingdom. Sometimes the codes corresponded to the machine that printed them. Codes varied from year to year and were often different depending on the office that used them. Sometimes combinations used between 1893 and 1895 were used, consisting of two letters, the first indicating the hour, the second the minutes.
Resource: Sociedad Filatélica de Madrid
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Collect British Postmarks, now published by Gibbons, identifies where in the squared-circle cancel a letter or number functioning as the hammer identifier is found. When it is above the date, sometimes it is the left letter or number, and sometimes it is the right letter or number.
Though they have several pages of tables, they also strongly recommend consulting Collecting British Squared Circle Postmarks by Cohen, et al. I don't have that.
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I recommend the book Collect British Postmarks from Stanley Gibbons as a good starting point for understanding British postmarks.
It is well organised with lots of good illustrations. It also has a bibliography listing many other books that cover specific areas in much more detail.
For example, for the "squared circle" style of postmark as used in the two Birmingham and Hastings examples here, it has a short chapter of eight dense pages on the main types, a list of the relevant offices and some related styles of postmarks.
This recommends, for much more detail, the book, Collecting British Squared Circle Postmarks by S. Cohen, M. Barette and D.G. Rosenblat (1987 plus later supplements).
I see cjd has already posted most of this!
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Socked on the foal's nose.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1897-92 Issue, 10p Scarlet & Lilac, used with CDS - "POOLE" January 4, 1897, (Number "4" on the date is inverted). Scott No.121b - SG210b, Shade.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1867-80, 1sh. Green. Plate 6 - Used with CDS - "MANCHESTER - STOCK EXCHANGE", October 16, 1872. Scott No.54 - SG117.
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It almost looks like they did this on purpose, no?
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That's a good one Flash.
"It almost looks like they did this on purpose, no?"
I may be way off with this but it seems like the European countries produce a higher percentage of SON cancels than the US, especially the Germanic countries. It's almost like, they're aiming for a higher degree of efficacy, "I must get the full cancel centered on the stamp."
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Machine cancels in Germany usually have the date part on the right, and if the stamp is of the right size and has not been placed too far from the edge of the envelope or postcard, a "bullseye cancel" has been a very likely occurrence.
The new inkjet cancels with the waves (actually, they are supposed to represent a flag) are of a somewhat different size and often aren't that legible, so that proper SOTN will become more rare in the future.
Martin
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The Circus and Audrey Hepburn are my two favorites. Beyond SON to downright artistic!
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1880-81 Issue, Four Pence Gray Brown, (NA), Plate 17 - Wmk. 30, used with CDS - "LIVERPOOL" August 5, 1882 - Sc.84 - SG160.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1884 Issue, Five Shillings, Carmine Rose, (EA) - Wmk. 31 (Anchor), used with CDS - "GRIMSBY" November 29, 1890 - Sc.108 - SG180.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1867 - Watermarked spray of rose, 1sh. Green, Plate 6 - Used with CDS - "NEWPORT - PEMBROKE", August 20, 1872. 8,400,000 stamps were issued between 20th March 1872 - 15th October 1872. Scott No.54 - SG117.
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Hi
I'm not saying you are wrong, but 8,400,000 stamps were issued between 20th March 1872 - 15th October 1872, seems like like alot?
Issued to who, the post offices?
Surely 8,400,000 stamps were not sold during that period?
Just me thinking out loud!
What do you think?
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The most important companies responsible for printing stamps in the Victorian era were De la Rue and Perkins, Bacon & Co..
Information from Stanley Gibbons Publication
You are questioning Stanley Gibbons, not me.
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1882 - Watermarked Anchor (there are two anchors watermarks on the stamp), £5.00, Plate 1 - White paper - Used with CDS in "MANCHESTER ACCOUNTS", July 23, 1897. 246,826 stamps were issued between January or February 1882. Scott No.93 - SG137.
My stamp has slight flaws but it's still very pretty!
Additional notes:
Earliest date of use 21st March 1882.
Issued Plate 1 - 246,826 stamps.
This total is shared with SG133, approximately 50% were on white paper and 50% on blued paper
Resources: theswedishtiger and Stanley Gibbons / Great Britain / Numbers Issueed 1840-1910.
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Nice
What are the very lite words I see "STAMP", suggest running thru ImageSeluth!
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On the stamp?
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02:05:23pm
It's, I believe, a watermark added to the image to help protect it from abuse by others. Many people do this and with the quality of Rodolfo's material it's a great idea!
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Abuse?
What kind of abuse are you suggesting, and why?
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02:32:00pm
If you take a photo and someone else uses it without acknowledgement it could be considered abuse. I sometimes use an image of something I found on line and usually try to acknowledge where I got it from. If I bought an item I sometimes use the seller's image until the stamp arrives. I probably shouldn't do that but I have never had a problem with using the image. I usually let the seller know what I have done and no one has complained yet. But if I posted an image of a valuable item I would probably be a bit ticked if someone passed it of as an image of one of their own items. I don't know all the legalities but if a seller uses a watermark on their image I would not copy and re-show the image without permission. It has something to do with copyright and we should be careful what we do! IMHO!!
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Forgive me for my potential ignorance here. What copyright infringement would one try to protect with such a mark on an image or photo of a stamp? I don't see the value in being concerned about a photo or image of a stamp. Unless one is to protect the original piece of property for insurance against theft of an extremely valuable item. Then I can see the value of doing so. What says you SOR experts?
Jeremy
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03:38:10pm
"I don't see the value in being concerned about a photo or image of a stamp."
To be perfectly honest, neither do I. The question is sort of this - If we own an object do we also own the images of this object? We're sort of getting into all of this fungible token stuff that I never did understand. I would get a little ticked if someone used an image I posted without giving credit, but only a little!! I don't really see the big deal! But maybe others do.
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I can see this morph to the original topic getting deep in the weeds here. Maybe a new thread should be started with regard to the subject of ( Adding a Watermark To The Image/Photo of a Stamp ) in order to protect the integrity of the OP authored by Charlie. May he RIP. I think that would be the decent thing to do.
Jeremy
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If one has a valuable stamp collection that requires insurance it is extremely wise to scan the stamp(s) with a watermark as proof of ownership if the stamp(s) are stolen or a claim has to be made with ones insurance company.
Simples!
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I see the watermark (RTV/Stamps) on my stamp caused a stir. I can't believe it! I posted that image by mistake because I used it for other purposes. It's now been corrected and the image is clean. I'm sorry for causing this. What intrigues me most is that not a single comment was directed at the stamp. 
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It is interesting how far in the weeds it went, but plenty of us saw and admired the stamp and the story. Thanks for posting!
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It IS a nice stamp. One i cannot afford.
Was too busy trying to preserve this thread!!
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Thank you very much for your kind comments!
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From my Collection: Mexico, Coat of Arms (Eagle) with CDS, "OFICINA CORREOS / MAZATLAN" date: November 12, 1910, 8 days before to the start of the independence of Mexico!.
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United States of America, Scott number R175r Series 1898 Revenue Stamp with 99% CDS cancel from The Provident Life & Trust Company of Philadelphia using the Quaker dating system
See scans
Close up see arrows, this image enhanced
From my personal collection
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1862. Four Pence Vermilion. Used with complete CDS - "ST. MARTIN S. LE. GRAND - E.C", May 18, 1872. Scott #46, Plate 12
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United States of America, Scott number R3c, Series 1862 Revenue stamps with almost complete socked on the nose cancel
See Scan
I wonder if this proprietary cancels has more letters than any other cancel?
Comments?
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From my Collection, Leona Vicario, August 25, 1912 - Used during the Mexican Revolution.
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United States of America, Scott number R135. Series 1871 revenue stamps
See scan
Image enhanced
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From my Collection: Mauritius Islands, Coat Of Arms1895-1904 Issue, VFU, 6c, Vio & Scar, Red, Wmk. 2, Sc.104 - SG168. Use with CDS "MAURITIUS" January 19, 1907.
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United States of America, Scott Number R152a Series Revenues with fancty SON
See scan
Comments?
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From my Collection: Trinidad & Tobago, 4c. Red, Memorial Park / King George VI, used with CDS - "G.P.O. PORT OF SPAIN - TRINIDAD", July 10, 1944 - Scott No. 53A.
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United States of America, Scott number R161 from Series 1898 Revenue Stamps
See scan
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All of these are lovely examples.
It is a pleasure to see them.
JTH
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From my Collection: French Colony, New Caledonia, 20c. Brown, Landscape, 1905-28 Issue. Used with CDS "THIO - NOUVELLE CALEDONIE", May 22, 1922.
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United States of America, Scott number R168
See scan
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From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1867-80 Issue, VFU, Three Pence, Rose, (RB), Plate 6 - Wmk. 25, Sc.49 - SG103. Use with CDS Postmark "GUERNSEY" - (From Channel Islands), September 23, 1871.
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United States of America Scott number R155 with fancy cancel, dated 1 July 1898
See Scan
Comments?
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From my Collection - Germany Empire, 1905 Issue - Germania stamps with CDS, used in "HAMBURG", January 14, 1905.
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United States of America Scott number R172, from series 1898 Revenue stamps, dated Sep 25 1899
See scan, 100% CDS & SON
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From my Collection: Mexico, 1896 Transportation Mail Issue, 10c. Rose, Wove paper with irregular Pin perfs. 12 and Wmk.152. CDS "MEXICO, D.F. - February 27, 1896", cancellation at 7:00 p.m.. Now the Post Offices close at 3:00 p.m. Offices close at 3:00 p.m.
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United States of America, Scott number R173r
100% SON & 100% CDS
Cancel date Sep 28 1898
See scan
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From my Collection - Mexico, Transport Mail Issue (Mulitas) 1896-97, 3c. Orange Brown with CDS "NOMBRE DE DIOS / DURANGO", November 23, 1897. 7 PM. Irregular perfs., Postmarks "NOMBRE DE DIOS" with inverted watermarj are very scarce and difficult to obtain!.
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United States of America, Scott Number R189p, Series of 1900 Revenues Stamps
100% SON & 100% CDS
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From my Collection: Imperial Eagle of Maximilian I of Mexico. 1 real without District name, consignation and Date. Early Plate, used in Tampico in November 27, 1864 during the French Intervention. Stamps used without marks are scarce and can be identified with the Postmark
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Should we let this form rest in peace now?
it is taking too long to load.
it also has mainly been rtv and 1899 now.
That is fine, I think it is getting long though. You both post cool stuff by the way!
I think we should start a SOTN 2 thread.
Thoughts?
Ari
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Hola amigo,
I've always posted here discreetly, and when a philatelist friend posted their image, I'd give them a little time to show their stamp and then post another one of mine, all fine... until "someone" came along who bothered me. When I post an image, they immediately post theirs, so I do the same. I've seen that gentleman from 1899 bother anyone he wants, and others don't tolerate it. That gentleman has even questioned some of my posts. I base my comments on information from trusted libraries and I don't make anything up.
Well, PhilatelistMag20, you're right, I fell for his stupid game; I won't post anything again and I won't respond to anything, especially not to that annoying gentleman! 
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United States of America, Scott number R188p
See scan
100% SON & 100% CDS
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rtv, mi amigo!
I mesaged you, please see.
AS of today, there is anew thread...
SOTN 2
I hope that you will post on their.
Everyone should be able to show their stamps, its part of the reason Sites like StampoRama exist!!
Try it out.
-Ari
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06:33:48pm
"I won't post anything again and I won't respond to anything, especially not to that annoying gentleman!"
I hope you continue posting. Your material is fantastic and I enjoy looking at it! I am also fed up with the garbage 1899 has been tossing our way and am trying very hard to ignore him. I have tried to strike back and got warned about it. So my suggestion is this - ignore his posts and just maybe he'll go away!! Several people have cut back on their posts lately and that's hurting this site. Hang in there, put up with the foolishness and maybe things will improve. You can always hope!!!
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I must say WOW!!! ladies and gentleman. All of these personal attacks in response to how long the thread is getting and who is making contributions of their material as subject matter
This is all uncalled for.
Jeremy
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Nov 2018
04:00:20am
I've noticed something lately and wonder what do the members feel is the definition of a Sotn?
To me a perfect SOTN would have virtually the entire circular cancellation on the stamp near center. The cancel ought to be clear enough that the place f cancelation as well as the date readable. An acceptable Sotn would have most of the cancellation on the stamp and meet the aforementioned legibility standard, except of course where nineteenth century fancy cancellers were standard.
Lately I have seen some stamps described as Sotns where barely half the circular cancel is on the stamp. And I think I remember a few weeks ago seeing a stamp with it being described as an SOTN that had little more than a quarter of the cancel on the stamp.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I can't see a debate here, just sellers adding a nice searchable "SOTN" to their listings.
These are SOTN. Anything else isn't.
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02:50:03pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
"Pardon my ignorance" but I assume that SOTN is an acronim for something.
Please explain for us, the great unwashed and uneducated masses.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
It is the title - socked on the nose!
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03:21:46pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
As said on numerous occasions, we are separated by a common language!!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
It's always been SON to me also. I have only very rarely seen it abbreviated as SOTN.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
According to "The Stamp Collector's Encyclopedia" by R.J. Sutton:
"'Socked on the nose' is a USA colloquialism defining a stamp with a centered, legible, and full town and date cancel."
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I learned it as SOTN - Socked On The Nose - from Pat Herst.
As the OP says, that's not SOTSOTF (Socked On The Side Of The Face), or BOTE (Boxed On The Ear).
When the CDS is part-on part-off, the correct descriptor is "tied".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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09:50:49pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
An eBay search for "SON" in the stamps category yielded 9,228 items. A search for "SOTN" returned 9,230. I couldn't have made that up if I tried!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Nov 2018
11:39:00pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
That is what I thought.
Then here are sellers on SoR that do not understand that any thing less is false advertising, akin to putting up a stamp MNH that has a hinge still firmly attached, or a perf 11 x 10 that is clearly perf 8.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
"An eBay search for "SON" in the stamps category yielded 9,228 items. A search for "SOTN" returned 9,230. I couldn't have made that up if I tried!"
That is so awesome!
Did we just decide that tie goes to the runner? (Which really isn't a rule after all).
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Charlie, stamp terminology has been bastardized so much over the centuries of collecting that the hobby terminology means different things to each collector despite what the different catalogs (which are rather consistent with each other) describe/define. In addition, many people don't take the time to read the catalogs beyond the catalog numbers and values.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
06 Nov 2018
10:17:41am
re: Socked on the nose ???
" ... many people don't take the time to read the catalogs
beyond the catalog numbers and values. ..."
Don't I know that. If newbies were to read the intros
I bet half the questions being asked would be answered.
Fortunately most of the mis-identified SOTNs seem to be
very inexpensive stamps that are hardly worth worrying about.
I just wondered what other members thought about it.
And perhaps some members having read the discussion
will be more particular in their descriptions.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
"... An eBay search for "SON" in the stamps category yielded 9,228 items ..."
CAUTION: homonyms may be closer than they appear.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I think these qualify.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
yes, dealers will try anything to sell! I agree with the definition of SOTN, anything less is just a cancelled stamp. I also like them to be in the proper time period. With us all using up the vast hoard of old mint stamps, having 1950s commemoratives with 2018 postmarks on them just don't work for me!
My peeve.. dealers who list every old cover as "small town cancel".... Jersey City and Newark, NJ are not small towns. Geographically challenged dealers!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Nov 2018
12:31:08am
re: Socked on the nose ???
For many years the postal authorities have shown
their complete ignorance for what a collector may want.
That is because they consider their mission moving the
mail swiftly and efficiently, not satisfying collectors.
We can see examples all over the world of agencies who,
to satisfy collection fads, reverse those goals, the
worst being quite a few who print cancelled stamps
strictly for collectors and stamps that rarely get a
genuine cancellation, making their issues little more
than Jam Jar Labels and contrived collector trinkets.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
When they ignore us, they're cads.
When they cater to us, they're thieves.
Where's Goldilocks, now that we need her?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: Socked on the nose ???
In memory of Charlie Jensen, who took leave of us six months ago, here is an undoubtedly socked-on-the-nose cancel on a GB Machin which is as good as they come!
JTH
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Its great to see posts from folks like Charlie Jensen and Ikey Pikey who are no longer with us. They are not forgotten.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
"Its great to see posts from folks like Charlie Jensen and Ikey Pikey who are no longer with us. They are not forgotten."
Many thanks to Jthurd for reviving the thread with such nice memories and to Phil for adding to them. Both Charlie and Ikey Pikey were special 'stamp buddies' of mine. Charlie for the many years he sent me the USA Flag issues both Mint and Used in exchange for Machins. I always had the feeling he was more generous. We had some very nice interactions on a GB Stamp Group.
Ikey Pikey and I had many email exchanges about Israel, the Hebrew language and the stamps. He visited me on a trip to the Holy Land and we sat on my porch sipping tea and exchanging views.
Both are such fond memories of our departed friends.
But in keeping with the thread topic and to remember another dear friend, I'll post an example of a SON (or SOTN if you prefer) cancel from long ago........
I sold this example to David Dennis back in 2012 and I remember him being thrilled to receive it. I remember David too for the many exchanges and sales made between us. A great guy.
Rest in Peace guys.
Londonbus1
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Michael, how could i forget David Dennis...he stopped at our place twice in his travels..here is a picture with him and Sneaky and myself at Sneakys place in Cape Cod. Sneaky was a grand guy also.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Mexico, Imperial Eagle of Maximilian I - Third Period, District 225-1864 - "VERACRUZ" used with Schatzkés Postmark: Sub-District: "SOLEDAD" with manuscript data, February 5, 1865. (This stamp is not the classic CDS, but it have the necessary data).
Regards,
Rodolfo
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Just found this one from Sweden in a still have to sort box.
.....
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I too remember David Dennis very fondly. We were in the Medicine Hat Coin and Stamp Club together and he was the one who introduced me to Stamporama. I purchased most of his collection upon his passing.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Chile, Christopher Columbus, 50c., Red Brown, 1900-01 Issue, Perf. Rouletted, Unwmk., Type I. CDS Postmark: "VALPARAISO - CHILE", April 14, 1903.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria 1867-80 Issue, Three Pence Rose (CE) - Plate 8 with CDS. - "BLAYDON 'ON' TYNE", June 18, 1872. Scott 49a and SG103, Wmk.25
Great Britain, Queen Victoria 1867-80 Issue, Three Pence Rose (CE) - Plate 7 with CDS. - "MANCHESTER ROYAL EXCHANGE", May 14, 1872. Scott 49a and SG103, Wmk.25
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re: Socked on the nose ???
"Blaydon on Tyne" What a name! Love it
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04:44:34am
re: Socked on the nose ???
Blaydon is famous in the North East of England. Its in the Newcastle/Gateshead area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PrMaVjH ...
The song is a favourite of Newcastle United Fans.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
"ernieinjax - "Blaydon on Tyne" What a name! Love it"
Yes, I agree with you, it is a nice and attractive name.
@Brechinite: Thanks for the information!
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12:00:28pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
For those interested in the Manchester Royal Exchange have a look at:-
http://www.revealinghistories.org.uk/why ...
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I like this one from Jersey
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: 6d, Pink & Violet South Africa Revenue, King George V - 1913 Issue, very rich and fresh color!. Duty Stamp with CDS "INLAND REVENUE, UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA" 260 (Tax Office?), June 23, 1914.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Here's a nice SON cancel on Sweden Scott# 153
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Does this count? I much prefer cancellations that don't obliterate portraits on stamps.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1867 Issue, Six Pence - Plate 9 - (KE) with Wing margin and used with CDS "ATHERSTONE", March 21, 1872, rich color.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 2sh6p. Lilac, (BE), 1883 Issue with CDS: "Bishopsgate Street Without. E.C.", April 21, 1899. Scott #96 and SG179.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1878 Issue, VFU, Ten Shillings, Plate 1, (AA), Greenish Gray - Wmk. 26, Sc.74 / SG128, used with CDS ""DUBLIN SORTING OFFICE" - February 7, 1879".
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Kind of an interesting SON when you take a closer look at it.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Of my last acquisitions now my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1881 Issue, VFU, One Penny, Lilac, (14 dots) - Wmk. 30, Sc.88 - SG171, used with CDS "RICHMOND - SURREY", October 31, 1881.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1884 Issue, VFU, Four pence, Carmine Rose, (No letters), Plate (Were made Plate 1 and 2) - Wmk. 23, Sc.26a - SG66. Use with CDS Postmark "LONDON E.C. 5", October 15, 1858.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Ceylon, Queen Victoria, 1899 Issue, VFU, 6c. Rose & Black, Strip of Three - Wmk. 2, Sc.134 - SG259 with CDS ""LINDULLA", July 16, 1902. (Now Sri Lanka - Lindula).
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1872-73 Issue, VFU, Six Pence, Plate 11, (OF) - Wmk. 25, Sc.59a (Deep Brown) - SG122 (Deep Chestnut), used with CDS "BIRMINGHAM TELEGRAPH OFFICE", May 21, 1872.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
A nice 10 pounder I caught in a box of kiloware with cancel from Alcester Warwickshire.
.....
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1872-73 Issue, VFU, Six Pence, (OD) - Wmk. 25, Sc.59 (Brown) - SG122a (Chestnut), used with CDS "LIVERPOOL - EXCHANGE", October 24, 1872.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Australia - Mercury and Hemispheres, October 22, 1937 Issue, 1sh6p Violet Brown, used with CDS, "G.P.O. SYDNEY - N.S.W. AUST.", (JE?) June 6, 1941 - Scott No. C5.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Seems to me a SON cancel should have the entire cancel on the stamp. Is this true, or is it up to each collector to decide.
The last posting some of the cancel does not show on the stamp!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I've never come across the assertion that the entire cancel has to fit on the stamp in order to be considered to be SON/SOTN.
A collector would be free to limit himself or herself to such examples, of course, but that would be personal choice.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From My British Collection:
-Ari
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection - Mexico, Mail Coach stamp with CDS, "CERTIFICACION INERNACIONAL - MEXICO, D.F.", April 4, 1899. This type of Postmark are very difficult and scarce due to their little use. Regularly the name of the region or province was placed at the top.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
USA Scott #3786
One of my best SONs. Too bad the print quality is so poor.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I do like this penny red with a London cancel.
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
11 Feb 2025
05:53:23pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
This one is close enough and I've never posted a SON before. #70d with certificate. Pale grey violet with a small thin and a blue postmark.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
A nice one for sure!
-Ari
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Feb 2025
11:28:31am
re: Socked on the nose ???
Yeah, I like it too. I like the look of blue (and red) cancels and it's a really nice Baltimore MD cancel! As far as being a SOtN cancel, that's debatable, but it's close enough for me! I've got a few red precancels that are probably legit, but even if they aren't they look great!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I must be blind, sorry I don't see any red cancel, please ad an arrow pointing to the red?
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Feb 2025
11:40:08am
re: Socked on the nose ???
Sorry!! I should have been more clear - I said I liked red cancels, not that this one had one. That's why I put it in brackets but I guess I should have said "OR red", less confusing! It's obvious that this stamp has a blue cancel, not a red one. If anyone else was confused, I'm sorry and I apologize!
Do you ever feel that things are just going too fast? Got to slow down and think when I post something!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Here is a nice red CDS socked-on-the-nose red cancel on a blue stamp -- the 15p "double-headed" Machin issued for the 150th anniversary of the 1840 penny black.
JTH
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Now in my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1865, Four Pence Vermillion. Plate 12 - Used with CDS - "ALTON", May 12, 1873. Scott No.43 - SG94
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re: Socked on the nose ???
@rtvstamps
Do you know what the "B" stands for?
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I believe the "B" is for the district that P-O serves in its local area.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
That's a nice "ALTON" CDS.
There are a several Altons in England but this is probably from Alton in Hampshire which is by far the largest.
This office probably had multiple handstamps in use and this "B" would be just a way of identifying an individual handstamp.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Correct!. In the publication of "REGISTRATION DISTRICTS IN HAMPSHIRE" Alton belonged to the District of Hampshire, but the latter shared the District with Berkshire partially until January 11, 1879; then the "B" must be from the Berkshire District.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I knew that as I had done a lot of research on British cancels and what they mean for an article I'd written awhile ago...
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I'm not convinced about this suggested use of the "B" but I'm very happy to learn.
I see the reference to registration districts as a red herring. I don't believe these had any postal significance.
Does anyone have a reference documenting this Alton CDS and any specific purpose it may have had?
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I suspect it's just a "B", perhaps the second clerk/window, or some other such internal reason.
So here's a thought. If there is a "B" there would certainly be at least one more letter code, right? Will it be an "A", or an "H"? I'm betting on "A".
(If someone does post an "H" I'm not giving up. I'll redouble my (nonexistent) search efforts to come up with the missing "A" through "G" cancelers.)
And to steer us back on track, here is a little French Morocco number with quite a lot going on, including a fairly well-socked Casablanca cancel:
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Hi cjd,
I agree.
Maybe there was an "A" version if two handstamps were issued at once?
Maybe there was initially only one handstamp, without any letter at all?
Many nineteenth century British handstamps had an additional letter or number used to identify the specific handstamps.
I've seen these referred to as "hammer numbers" (as the cancelling device often looked like a hammer with a wooden handle).
I've also seen these referred to as "index numbers" and other terms.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
F-5 & W-47 I think this is a code for an area...
Oh also they are both semi-SOTN by the way!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From Hendy's The History of the Postmarks of the British Isles (1909):
When we get to GB squared-circle postmarks, I believe you also start to see some time codes, as well.
And back on track:
Hong Kong with a Treaty Port cancel from Amoy, 17 December 1914.
ETA: 1914
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Alright, I'll give you that, though what about the digit codes?
W-47 is a time stamp too?
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I have some of that information too, but it's a bit confusing, as @Pennyblk mentions, in the case of the W, what? Does the board (below) go up to the M and everything else?
Postal directors allowed the use of codes for specific service conditions. Many brands have codes on the date stamp. In many cases, and in the case of numerical codes, these identified the brand itself, that is, the office. When the codes are letters, they normally identify the time of receipt or sending.
From 1857 onwards, automatic cancelling machines began to be used in London, and within a few years they spread to many other offices in the United Kingdom. Sometimes the codes corresponded to the machine that printed them. Codes varied from year to year and were often different depending on the office that used them. Sometimes combinations used between 1893 and 1895 were used, consisting of two letters, the first indicating the hour, the second the minutes.
Resource: Sociedad Filatélica de Madrid
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Collect British Postmarks, now published by Gibbons, identifies where in the squared-circle cancel a letter or number functioning as the hammer identifier is found. When it is above the date, sometimes it is the left letter or number, and sometimes it is the right letter or number.
Though they have several pages of tables, they also strongly recommend consulting Collecting British Squared Circle Postmarks by Cohen, et al. I don't have that.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I recommend the book Collect British Postmarks from Stanley Gibbons as a good starting point for understanding British postmarks.
It is well organised with lots of good illustrations. It also has a bibliography listing many other books that cover specific areas in much more detail.
For example, for the "squared circle" style of postmark as used in the two Birmingham and Hastings examples here, it has a short chapter of eight dense pages on the main types, a list of the relevant offices and some related styles of postmarks.
This recommends, for much more detail, the book, Collecting British Squared Circle Postmarks by S. Cohen, M. Barette and D.G. Rosenblat (1987 plus later supplements).
I see cjd has already posted most of this!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Socked on the foal's nose.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1897-92 Issue, 10p Scarlet & Lilac, used with CDS - "POOLE" January 4, 1897, (Number "4" on the date is inverted). Scott No.121b - SG210b, Shade.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1867-80, 1sh. Green. Plate 6 - Used with CDS - "MANCHESTER - STOCK EXCHANGE", October 16, 1872. Scott No.54 - SG117.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
It almost looks like they did this on purpose, no?
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re: Socked on the nose ???
That's a good one Flash.
"It almost looks like they did this on purpose, no?"
I may be way off with this but it seems like the European countries produce a higher percentage of SON cancels than the US, especially the Germanic countries. It's almost like, they're aiming for a higher degree of efficacy, "I must get the full cancel centered on the stamp."
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Machine cancels in Germany usually have the date part on the right, and if the stamp is of the right size and has not been placed too far from the edge of the envelope or postcard, a "bullseye cancel" has been a very likely occurrence.
The new inkjet cancels with the waves (actually, they are supposed to represent a flag) are of a somewhat different size and often aren't that legible, so that proper SOTN will become more rare in the future.
Martin
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re: Socked on the nose ???
The Circus and Audrey Hepburn are my two favorites. Beyond SON to downright artistic!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1880-81 Issue, Four Pence Gray Brown, (NA), Plate 17 - Wmk. 30, used with CDS - "LIVERPOOL" August 5, 1882 - Sc.84 - SG160.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1884 Issue, Five Shillings, Carmine Rose, (EA) - Wmk. 31 (Anchor), used with CDS - "GRIMSBY" November 29, 1890 - Sc.108 - SG180.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1867 - Watermarked spray of rose, 1sh. Green, Plate 6 - Used with CDS - "NEWPORT - PEMBROKE", August 20, 1872. 8,400,000 stamps were issued between 20th March 1872 - 15th October 1872. Scott No.54 - SG117.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Hi
I'm not saying you are wrong, but 8,400,000 stamps were issued between 20th March 1872 - 15th October 1872, seems like like alot?
Issued to who, the post offices?
Surely 8,400,000 stamps were not sold during that period?
Just me thinking out loud!
What do you think?
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re: Socked on the nose ???
The most important companies responsible for printing stamps in the Victorian era were De la Rue and Perkins, Bacon & Co..
Information from Stanley Gibbons Publication
You are questioning Stanley Gibbons, not me.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1882 - Watermarked Anchor (there are two anchors watermarks on the stamp), £5.00, Plate 1 - White paper - Used with CDS in "MANCHESTER ACCOUNTS", July 23, 1897. 246,826 stamps were issued between January or February 1882. Scott No.93 - SG137.
My stamp has slight flaws but it's still very pretty!
Additional notes:
Earliest date of use 21st March 1882.
Issued Plate 1 - 246,826 stamps.
This total is shared with SG133, approximately 50% were on white paper and 50% on blued paper
Resources: theswedishtiger and Stanley Gibbons / Great Britain / Numbers Issueed 1840-1910.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Nice
What are the very lite words I see "STAMP", suggest running thru ImageSeluth!
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jun 2025
02:05:23pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
It's, I believe, a watermark added to the image to help protect it from abuse by others. Many people do this and with the quality of Rodolfo's material it's a great idea!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Abuse?
What kind of abuse are you suggesting, and why?
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jun 2025
02:32:00pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
If you take a photo and someone else uses it without acknowledgement it could be considered abuse. I sometimes use an image of something I found on line and usually try to acknowledge where I got it from. If I bought an item I sometimes use the seller's image until the stamp arrives. I probably shouldn't do that but I have never had a problem with using the image. I usually let the seller know what I have done and no one has complained yet. But if I posted an image of a valuable item I would probably be a bit ticked if someone passed it of as an image of one of their own items. I don't know all the legalities but if a seller uses a watermark on their image I would not copy and re-show the image without permission. It has something to do with copyright and we should be careful what we do! IMHO!!
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03:22:33pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
Forgive me for my potential ignorance here. What copyright infringement would one try to protect with such a mark on an image or photo of a stamp? I don't see the value in being concerned about a photo or image of a stamp. Unless one is to protect the original piece of property for insurance against theft of an extremely valuable item. Then I can see the value of doing so. What says you SOR experts?
Jeremy
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jun 2025
03:38:10pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
"I don't see the value in being concerned about a photo or image of a stamp."
To be perfectly honest, neither do I. The question is sort of this - If we own an object do we also own the images of this object? We're sort of getting into all of this fungible token stuff that I never did understand. I would get a little ticked if someone used an image I posted without giving credit, but only a little!! I don't really see the big deal! But maybe others do.
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03:47:40pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
I can see this morph to the original topic getting deep in the weeds here. Maybe a new thread should be started with regard to the subject of ( Adding a Watermark To The Image/Photo of a Stamp ) in order to protect the integrity of the OP authored by Charlie. May he RIP. I think that would be the decent thing to do.
Jeremy
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05:48:58pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
If one has a valuable stamp collection that requires insurance it is extremely wise to scan the stamp(s) with a watermark as proof of ownership if the stamp(s) are stolen or a claim has to be made with ones insurance company.
Simples!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
I see the watermark (RTV/Stamps) on my stamp caused a stir. I can't believe it! I posted that image by mistake because I used it for other purposes. It's now been corrected and the image is clean. I'm sorry for causing this. What intrigues me most is that not a single comment was directed at the stamp.
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08:08:58am
re: Socked on the nose ???
It is interesting how far in the weeds it went, but plenty of us saw and admired the stamp and the story. Thanks for posting!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
It IS a nice stamp. One i cannot afford.
Was too busy trying to preserve this thread!!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Thank you very much for your kind comments!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Mexico, Coat of Arms (Eagle) with CDS, "OFICINA CORREOS / MAZATLAN" date: November 12, 1910, 8 days before to the start of the independence of Mexico!.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott number R175r Series 1898 Revenue Stamp with 99% CDS cancel from The Provident Life & Trust Company of Philadelphia using the Quaker dating system
See scans
Close up see arrows, this image enhanced
From my personal collection
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, Issue 1862. Four Pence Vermilion. Used with complete CDS - "ST. MARTIN S. LE. GRAND - E.C", May 18, 1872. Scott #46, Plate 12
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott number R3c, Series 1862 Revenue stamps with almost complete socked on the nose cancel
See Scan
I wonder if this proprietary cancels has more letters than any other cancel?
Comments?
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection, Leona Vicario, August 25, 1912 - Used during the Mexican Revolution.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott number R135. Series 1871 revenue stamps
See scan
Image enhanced
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Mauritius Islands, Coat Of Arms1895-1904 Issue, VFU, 6c, Vio & Scar, Red, Wmk. 2, Sc.104 - SG168. Use with CDS "MAURITIUS" January 19, 1907.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott Number R152a Series Revenues with fancty SON
See scan
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Trinidad & Tobago, 4c. Red, Memorial Park / King George VI, used with CDS - "G.P.O. PORT OF SPAIN - TRINIDAD", July 10, 1944 - Scott No. 53A.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott number R161 from Series 1898 Revenue Stamps
See scan
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re: Socked on the nose ???
All of these are lovely examples.
It is a pleasure to see them.
JTH
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: French Colony, New Caledonia, 20c. Brown, Landscape, 1905-28 Issue. Used with CDS "THIO - NOUVELLE CALEDONIE", May 22, 1922.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott number R168
See scan
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Great Britain, Queen Victoria, 1867-80 Issue, VFU, Three Pence, Rose, (RB), Plate 6 - Wmk. 25, Sc.49 - SG103. Use with CDS Postmark "GUERNSEY" - (From Channel Islands), September 23, 1871.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America Scott number R155 with fancy cancel, dated 1 July 1898
See Scan
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection - Germany Empire, 1905 Issue - Germania stamps with CDS, used in "HAMBURG", January 14, 1905.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America Scott number R172, from series 1898 Revenue stamps, dated Sep 25 1899
See scan, 100% CDS & SON
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Mexico, 1896 Transportation Mail Issue, 10c. Rose, Wove paper with irregular Pin perfs. 12 and Wmk.152. CDS "MEXICO, D.F. - February 27, 1896", cancellation at 7:00 p.m.. Now the Post Offices close at 3:00 p.m. Offices close at 3:00 p.m.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott number R173r
100% SON & 100% CDS
Cancel date Sep 28 1898
See scan
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection - Mexico, Transport Mail Issue (Mulitas) 1896-97, 3c. Orange Brown with CDS "NOMBRE DE DIOS / DURANGO", November 23, 1897. 7 PM. Irregular perfs., Postmarks "NOMBRE DE DIOS" with inverted watermarj are very scarce and difficult to obtain!.
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott Number R189p, Series of 1900 Revenues Stamps
100% SON & 100% CDS
See scan
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re: Socked on the nose ???
From my Collection: Imperial Eagle of Maximilian I of Mexico. 1 real without District name, consignation and Date. Early Plate, used in Tampico in November 27, 1864 during the French Intervention. Stamps used without marks are scarce and can be identified with the Postmark
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Should we let this form rest in peace now?
it is taking too long to load.
it also has mainly been rtv and 1899 now.
That is fine, I think it is getting long though. You both post cool stuff by the way!
I think we should start a SOTN 2 thread.
Thoughts?
Ari
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re: Socked on the nose ???
Hola amigo,
I've always posted here discreetly, and when a philatelist friend posted their image, I'd give them a little time to show their stamp and then post another one of mine, all fine... until "someone" came along who bothered me. When I post an image, they immediately post theirs, so I do the same. I've seen that gentleman from 1899 bother anyone he wants, and others don't tolerate it. That gentleman has even questioned some of my posts. I base my comments on information from trusted libraries and I don't make anything up.
Well, PhilatelistMag20, you're right, I fell for his stupid game; I won't post anything again and I won't respond to anything, especially not to that annoying gentleman!
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re: Socked on the nose ???
United States of America, Scott number R188p
See scan
100% SON & 100% CDS
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re: Socked on the nose ???
rtv, mi amigo!
I mesaged you, please see.
AS of today, there is anew thread...
SOTN 2
I hope that you will post on their.
Everyone should be able to show their stamps, its part of the reason Sites like StampoRama exist!!
Try it out.
-Ari
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
28 Jun 2025
06:33:48pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
"I won't post anything again and I won't respond to anything, especially not to that annoying gentleman!"
I hope you continue posting. Your material is fantastic and I enjoy looking at it! I am also fed up with the garbage 1899 has been tossing our way and am trying very hard to ignore him. I have tried to strike back and got warned about it. So my suggestion is this - ignore his posts and just maybe he'll go away!! Several people have cut back on their posts lately and that's hurting this site. Hang in there, put up with the foolishness and maybe things will improve. You can always hope!!!
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07:30:17pm
re: Socked on the nose ???
I must say WOW!!! ladies and gentleman. All of these personal attacks in response to how long the thread is getting and who is making contributions of their material as subject matter
This is all uncalled for.
Jeremy
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