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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

 

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keesindy
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09 Feb 2019
12:37:40pm
(If admin thinks this post would be better in either the Germany or China topics, please feel free to relocate it.)

This postal card was in my possession briefly back in 2002. I have never tried to decipher the information on the card or research the history of the German concession at Kiautschou.

The cancel over the indicium includes TSINGTAU TSINANFU. The other cancel is TSINGTAU, KIAUTSCHOU.

I am sure others can add considerably more to the story behind this card.

Tom

Image Not Found

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PhilaStore

09 Feb 2019
01:29:09pm
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

the oval cancellation is a railroad cancel the other one a regular post office cancel you need to check the date on the 2 cancels the round one probably a receiving cancellation. Card was mailed from TSINANFU to TSINGTAU both towns are on the island Kiautschou

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dollhaus

09 Feb 2019
03:44:20pm
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

The German leased territory of Kiautschau around a bay in China included the city Tsingtao (now Qingdao). The Germans built a railroad to Tsinanfu (now Jinan) and opened concessions in Tsinanfu, which was still Chinese territory. The RR was finished in 1904.

Could the cancel with both names be railway related? Kiautschau had its own stamps, but maybe not postal stationery since the generic Offices in China type was used.

Spent a day in Qingdao several years ago. Fascinating city - it's Chinese of course, but there are many German-built buildins still there. On a couple of steets, you think you're in Bavaria, not China. One of the largest of the German buildings is the original Tsingtao Brewery - trust the Germans to get the important buildings done first. Don't know if any active brewing still goes on there. Tsingtao Beer is exported to the US, and you can probably find it in a well-stocked beer section. It's reall pretty good.

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HockeyNut
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14 May 2020
04:14:16am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

As stated by PhilaStore and dollhaus :

Schantung - Bahn

The Shandong-Bahn, (in German literature also Schantung- or Shantung-Bahn), is a railway line in China,
which connects Qingdao with the provincial capital Jinan in the Chinese province of Sh?nd?ng, about 400 km west.

Image Not Found

Map of the railway line of the Schantung Railway between Tsingtau and Tsinanfu from 1912

The postalcard above is posted to Dr. Kösters, Tringtan
Address : Catholic mission house.

And you can find almost anything on Google :Applause

Image Not Found


So Dr. Kösters was a Pastor at the Mission House (says this addressbook from 1910).


P.S.
The postcard is from German post office abroad China and NOT from Kiautschou.

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philb
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14 May 2020
07:44:33pm

Auctions
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

What a great card...back when the internet was a new world ..my wife found me a postcard at a fleamarket from German New Guinea with a seapost cancel..i showed it on the net and one fellow said...thats a $225 card. I said send me $150 and its yours...he did.

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"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
HockeyNut
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18 May 2020
04:02:57am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Saw this seal of the Schantung railway on Wikipedia

Image Not Found

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gerom

23 Sep 2020
08:53:13am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

You may have already found the answer, but the postal cancellation on the railway is similar to the one in the catalog I received a few days ago.
It doesn't look very good but you can compare it with the one in the catalog.

Image Not Found

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HockeyNut
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23 Sep 2020
09:11:10am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

He Gerom,

How is the Catalog called?
Maybe an ISBN number?
Picture of the front side?

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gerom

23 Sep 2020
10:31:19am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Hi HockeyNut,
The catalog is part of a very, very nice batch of books donated by a member of the "stampcommunity".
It took 3 months to reach me and when I had no hope they arrived last week.
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

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phos45
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24 Sep 2020
10:54:59am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

This is a german SPO-dater introduced in 1886 to the Far East and rare on old Koban. - The oval bilingual one is considered a private marking done by some philatelic minded staff of the Imperial Maritime Customs - it is not a postmark. - There was a chinese p.o. in Tsingtau from 1899, which used tombstone postmark
Image Not Found

Image Not Found

the japanese marines overan Tsingtao using rabbits to breach the german minefield. Garrison surrendered after exhausting ammunition.

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machinstudygroup.blogspot.ca
gerom

25 Sep 2020
06:23:27am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

I found in the catalog this type of cancellation, but quoted only for application on DR or DP China stamps.
With the letter "a" the quota is very high (1000/4000 Euro on stamp / cover).
I did not find any reference for application on Japanese stamps.
Image Not Found

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Linus
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25 Sep 2020
09:38:36am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

This cancel is also found on Hong Kong stamps:

(image from eBay, not my stamp)

Image Not Found

This one below is from my collection:

Image Not Found


Regards,

Linus

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HockeyNut
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25 Sep 2020
09:39:36am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Gerom,

Thanks for all the info of that catalog. Thumbs Up Applause

Those other catalogs are very interesting too.
I own the one from Horst Landmann.

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gerom

25 Sep 2020
11:09:41am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

HockeyNut,
Not knowing German I have a hard time translating comments from catalogs.
For example, with the cancellation of Linus (with letter "e"), a whole list appears in the catalog. I couldn't find what the word before the time period represents. Is it the name of the ship carrying the correspondence?
Image Not Found

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HockeyNut
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26 Sep 2020
01:26:08pm
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Yep,

That are all ship names.

But be carefull a lot of those names are used many times in different periods.

For example : SCHARNHORST

Großer Kreuzer SMS Scharnhorst (1906–1914), Kaiserliche Marine
Image Not Found
SMS_Scharnhorst photo by Arthur Renard

Schlachtschiff Scharnhorst (1936-1943), Deutsche Kriegsmarine
Image Not Found

Schlachtschiff Scharnhorst photo Bundesarchiv DVM 10

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HockeyNut
Members Picture


26 Sep 2020
01:36:53pm
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Another example : GNEISENAU

Armored cruiser SMS Gneisenau (1906 - 1914) Kaiserliche Marine
Image Not Found
SMS Gneisenau photographer UNKNOWN

Schlachtschiff Gneisenau (1936-1945) Deutsche Kriegsmarine
Image Not Found
Schlachtschiff Gneisenau photo BundesArchiv DVM 10

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HockeyNut
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26 Sep 2020
01:46:48pm
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

"This cancel is also found on Hong Kong stamps:

(image from eBay, not my stamp)

This one below is from my collection:

Regards,

Linus"



His picture shows :
PREISE GELTEN AUF MARKEN DES DEUTSCHES REICHES

What Gerom is trying to say is that the prices in that catalog are only valid when the cancelations are on GERMAN stamps.

So on NON-german stamps there are other prices, but the catalog does not mention them.

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gerom

27 Sep 2020
03:00:16am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Thank you HockeyNut.
Of course I also searched for the names in the catalog post and found an excellent site: "norwayheritage"
Print-screen with” SCHARNHORST : Purchase a copy?

Image Not Found??.

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HockeyNut
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27 Sep 2020
08:06:55am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

And so now Linus can see that the Hong Kong Stamp he found on eBay was cancelled at the SMS Hamburg

Image Not Found

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Linus
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27 Sep 2020
11:49:35am
re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Nice picture, HockeyNut, thanks for sharing. I will add some additional info in regards to the use of these cancellations on Hong Kong adhesives.

In my small, personal, philatelic library, I have this book by Colonel Francis Webb:

Image Not Found

On page 363 of this book, the German mailboat service is explained as to the usage of these cancellations on Hong Kong stamps, but it did not explain in detail what the small letter in the cancel was used for, but now I know. Covers with these cancels on Hong Kong stamps are not common.

Linus


Image Not Found

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
keesindy

09 Feb 2019
12:37:40pm

(If admin thinks this post would be better in either the Germany or China topics, please feel free to relocate it.)

This postal card was in my possession briefly back in 2002. I have never tried to decipher the information on the card or research the history of the German concession at Kiautschou.

The cancel over the indicium includes TSINGTAU TSINANFU. The other cancel is TSINGTAU, KIAUTSCHOU.

I am sure others can add considerably more to the story behind this card.

Tom

Image Not Found

Like 
5 Members
like this post.
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"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
PhilaStore

09 Feb 2019
01:29:09pm

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

the oval cancellation is a railroad cancel the other one a regular post office cancel you need to check the date on the 2 cancels the round one probably a receiving cancellation. Card was mailed from TSINANFU to TSINGTAU both towns are on the island Kiautschou

Like 
6 Members
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dollhaus

09 Feb 2019
03:44:20pm

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

The German leased territory of Kiautschau around a bay in China included the city Tsingtao (now Qingdao). The Germans built a railroad to Tsinanfu (now Jinan) and opened concessions in Tsinanfu, which was still Chinese territory. The RR was finished in 1904.

Could the cancel with both names be railway related? Kiautschau had its own stamps, but maybe not postal stationery since the generic Offices in China type was used.

Spent a day in Qingdao several years ago. Fascinating city - it's Chinese of course, but there are many German-built buildins still there. On a couple of steets, you think you're in Bavaria, not China. One of the largest of the German buildings is the original Tsingtao Brewery - trust the Germans to get the important buildings done first. Don't know if any active brewing still goes on there. Tsingtao Beer is exported to the US, and you can probably find it in a well-stocked beer section. It's reall pretty good.

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
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Members Picture
HockeyNut

14 May 2020
04:14:16am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

As stated by PhilaStore and dollhaus :

Schantung - Bahn

The Shandong-Bahn, (in German literature also Schantung- or Shantung-Bahn), is a railway line in China,
which connects Qingdao with the provincial capital Jinan in the Chinese province of Sh?nd?ng, about 400 km west.

Image Not Found

Map of the railway line of the Schantung Railway between Tsingtau and Tsinanfu from 1912

The postalcard above is posted to Dr. Kösters, Tringtan
Address : Catholic mission house.

And you can find almost anything on Google :Applause

Image Not Found


So Dr. Kösters was a Pastor at the Mission House (says this addressbook from 1910).


P.S.
The postcard is from German post office abroad China and NOT from Kiautschou.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
philb

14 May 2020
07:44:33pm

Auctions

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

What a great card...back when the internet was a new world ..my wife found me a postcard at a fleamarket from German New Guinea with a seapost cancel..i showed it on the net and one fellow said...thats a $225 card. I said send me $150 and its yours...he did.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
Members Picture
HockeyNut

18 May 2020
04:02:57am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Saw this seal of the Schantung railway on Wikipedia

Image Not Found

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this post
gerom

23 Sep 2020
08:53:13am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

You may have already found the answer, but the postal cancellation on the railway is similar to the one in the catalog I received a few days ago.
It doesn't look very good but you can compare it with the one in the catalog.

Image Not Found

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
HockeyNut

23 Sep 2020
09:11:10am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

He Gerom,

How is the Catalog called?
Maybe an ISBN number?
Picture of the front side?

Like
Login to Like
this post
gerom

23 Sep 2020
10:31:19am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Hi HockeyNut,
The catalog is part of a very, very nice batch of books donated by a member of the "stampcommunity".
It took 3 months to reach me and when I had no hope they arrived last week.
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
phos45

24 Sep 2020
10:54:59am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

This is a german SPO-dater introduced in 1886 to the Far East and rare on old Koban. - The oval bilingual one is considered a private marking done by some philatelic minded staff of the Imperial Maritime Customs - it is not a postmark. - There was a chinese p.o. in Tsingtau from 1899, which used tombstone postmark
Image Not Found

Image Not Found

the japanese marines overan Tsingtao using rabbits to breach the german minefield. Garrison surrendered after exhausting ammunition.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

machinstudygroup.blo ...
gerom

25 Sep 2020
06:23:27am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

I found in the catalog this type of cancellation, but quoted only for application on DR or DP China stamps.
With the letter "a" the quota is very high (1000/4000 Euro on stamp / cover).
I did not find any reference for application on Japanese stamps.
Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Linus

25 Sep 2020
09:38:36am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

This cancel is also found on Hong Kong stamps:

(image from eBay, not my stamp)

Image Not Found

This one below is from my collection:

Image Not Found


Regards,

Linus

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this post
Members Picture
HockeyNut

25 Sep 2020
09:39:36am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Gerom,

Thanks for all the info of that catalog. Thumbs Up Applause

Those other catalogs are very interesting too.
I own the one from Horst Landmann.

Like
Login to Like
this post
gerom

25 Sep 2020
11:09:41am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

HockeyNut,
Not knowing German I have a hard time translating comments from catalogs.
For example, with the cancellation of Linus (with letter "e"), a whole list appears in the catalog. I couldn't find what the word before the time period represents. Is it the name of the ship carrying the correspondence?
Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
HockeyNut

26 Sep 2020
01:26:08pm

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Yep,

That are all ship names.

But be carefull a lot of those names are used many times in different periods.

For example : SCHARNHORST

Großer Kreuzer SMS Scharnhorst (1906–1914), Kaiserliche Marine
Image Not Found
SMS_Scharnhorst photo by Arthur Renard

Schlachtschiff Scharnhorst (1936-1943), Deutsche Kriegsmarine
Image Not Found

Schlachtschiff Scharnhorst photo Bundesarchiv DVM 10

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
HockeyNut

26 Sep 2020
01:36:53pm

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Another example : GNEISENAU

Armored cruiser SMS Gneisenau (1906 - 1914) Kaiserliche Marine
Image Not Found
SMS Gneisenau photographer UNKNOWN

Schlachtschiff Gneisenau (1936-1945) Deutsche Kriegsmarine
Image Not Found
Schlachtschiff Gneisenau photo BundesArchiv DVM 10

Like
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this post
Members Picture
HockeyNut

26 Sep 2020
01:46:48pm

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

"This cancel is also found on Hong Kong stamps:

(image from eBay, not my stamp)

This one below is from my collection:

Regards,

Linus"



His picture shows :
PREISE GELTEN AUF MARKEN DES DEUTSCHES REICHES

What Gerom is trying to say is that the prices in that catalog are only valid when the cancelations are on GERMAN stamps.

So on NON-german stamps there are other prices, but the catalog does not mention them.

Like
Login to Like
this post
gerom

27 Sep 2020
03:00:16am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Thank you HockeyNut.
Of course I also searched for the names in the catalog post and found an excellent site: "norwayheritage"
Print-screen with” SCHARNHORST : Purchase a copy?

Image Not Found??.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
HockeyNut

27 Sep 2020
08:06:55am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

And so now Linus can see that the Hong Kong Stamp he found on eBay was cancelled at the SMS Hamburg

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Linus

27 Sep 2020
11:49:35am

re: German postal card with (1905?) CHINA overprint from Tsingtau, Kiautschou

Nice picture, HockeyNut, thanks for sharing. I will add some additional info in regards to the use of these cancellations on Hong Kong adhesives.

In my small, personal, philatelic library, I have this book by Colonel Francis Webb:

Image Not Found

On page 363 of this book, the German mailboat service is explained as to the usage of these cancellations on Hong Kong stamps, but it did not explain in detail what the small letter in the cancel was used for, but now I know. Covers with these cancels on Hong Kong stamps are not common.

Linus


Image Not Found

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
        

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