Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
REMEMBER THE RULES:
1. No Offices Abroad, Local Stamps, or Occupation stamps. Those go in last section.
2. All dates are stamp issuing dates (although Smithsonian was quite inconsistent, I tried to clean that up).
3. This is MY example of an expansion, for your consideration and comment. You may decide to go a totally different route. That's OK, and please tell us why.
The biggest question here is where to draw the line between Asia and Oceania. I propose making the dividing line between West Papau Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.
This will get us started:
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Hi Lars,
Here are a few thoughts on the Oceania pages:
Australia
- I suggest splitting Tasmania into two, Van Diemen's Land and Tasmania to reflect the change of name of the colony.
Christmas Island
- Politically this is Australian but the islands lie south west of Java.
Cocos Islands
- The same is true for the Cocos Islands which lie even further west.
Papua New Guinea
- There's a typo "PAPAU" in the heading.
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"I suggest splitting Tasmania into two, Van Diemen's Land and Tasmania to reflect the change of name of the colony"
I have really struggled with this sort of thing. I certainly don't want to include every mind-numbing variation of East-European Communist states or Central American Banana Republics, but I also don't want to miss out on fundamental changes when the name doesn't change at all (like Cuba). I will add this to the list for future research, but thanks for pointing this out.
As far as Cocos Islands and Christmas Island are concerned, I think you raise a very good point. That's why, contradictory to what Smithsonian did, I felt compelled to split Asia from Oceania on a cultural/political basis instead of a geographic basis. I put Cocos Islands and Christmas Island in Oceania and West Irian in Asia. I may revisit Cyprus in Asia and Greenland in America some day, but, Yes, I did intentionally depart from Smithsonian here, mainly for the reasons you highlighted.
Thanks for catching the "PAPAU" misspelling. I had hoped it was a Smithsonian misprint, but alas, it was me. I have marked it for correction.
Here is the next batch of pages:
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Hi Lars,
Guam:
Is this the first main entry we've seen which doesn't currently issue its own stamps?
As far as I know the Northern Mariana Islands don't issue stamps either.
Whilst Guam is geographically in the Marianas island group, the German Marianas stamps are not a predecessor of Guam as Guam was acquired by the United States from Spain before Spain sold the other islands to Germany.
Perhaps a new title such as US Territories in Micronesia with no current stamps but two predecessors would work?
Or two separate items, each with no current stamp, but each with one predecessor?
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"Is this the first main entry we've seen which doesn't currently issue its own stamps?"
The only other one I can think of is Hawaii, and I will post those pages next. (EDIT: Also Danish West Indies, Guadeloupe, Martinique, and Puerto Rico in North America; French Guiana in South America; Reunion in Africa; Graham Land, King Edward VII Land, Victoria Land, South Orkneys, and South Shetlands in Antarctica).
As far as Guam, it appears that Smithsonian intended that we use Scott 1-6 issued 1899 while Mariana was under Spanish Dominion, and that's why they only have 1899 for the year. But that still doesn't explain why Guam is there. Hawaii is a bit different since it is now a state instead of a territory, but you're right, it's awkward at best how they are treated. I will have to give this some thought. I really don't want to move Hawaii to North America as a precedent country of the US! Anybody else have any ideas?
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Hi Lars,
A couple of follow-up comments:
"The only other one I can think of is Hawaii, and I will post those pages next. (EDIT: Also Danish West Indies, Guadeloupe, Martinique, and Puerto Rico in North America; French Guiana in South America; Reunion in Africa; Graham Land, King Edward VII Land, Victoria Land, South Orkneys, and South Shetlands in Antarctica)."
Agreed, although some of these are predecessors of territories that still issue stamps.
"As far as Guam, it appears that Smithsonian intended that we use Scott 1-6 issued 1899 while Mariana was under Spanish Dominion, and that's why they only have 1899 for the year. "
Thanks, I completely forgot about the Spanish Marianas stamps!
You could keep Guam on its own and add the (German) Marianas as a new main entity with the Spanish Marianas as a predecessor.
Cook Islands:
You may wish to split the Cook Islands into three periods:
- British Protectorate
- New Zealand territory from 1901
- Self-government from 1965
The islands of Aitutaki and Penrhyn are both part of the Cook Islands which issue their own stamps (rather like Aland in Finland).
Niue:
I would suggest "New Zealand Territory" as the description for the earlier period.
This started with the request from the island for British annexation and a brief protectorate was followed by transfer of the territory to New Zealand.
Tonga:
It's interesting that the Smithsonian have also included Niuafo'ou (Tin Can Island), the most northerly Tongan island.
Tuvalu:
At least the didn't include stamps issued for Funafuti, Nanumaga and all the other islands!
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Nigel,
I'm tired and it's time for bed for me, but I do want to make one parting point:
""The only other one I can think of is Hawaii, and I will post those pages next. (EDIT: Also Danish West Indies, Guadeloupe, Martinique, and Puerto Rico in North America; French Guiana in South America; Reunion in Africa; Graham Land, King Edward VII Land, Victoria Land, South Orkneys, and South Shetlands in Antarctica).""
Your reply was :
"Agreed, although some of these are predecessors of territories that still issue stamps."
Yes for some, but not most. Don't we need a coherent policy for identifying and dealing with orphans?
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Hi Lars,
I agree and I think you already have a model for this in Guam, Puerto Rico, Danish West Indies and Hawaii.
I suggest the same would make sense for each of the Mariana Islands, Reunion and French Guiana (with predecessor Inini).
I would see Graham Land, the South Shetlands and the South Orkneys to be predecessors of the the British Antarctic Territory.
Similarly, I would see Victoria Land and King Edward VII Land stamps to be possible predecessors of the Ross Dependency although they were only used on one expedition each.
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Well here's Antarctica:
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Hi Lars,
Nice to see all the Antarctic stamps together!
I would set out the British Territories to reflect the current situation:
1. Falkland Islands
2. South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands with two predecessors:
- Falkland Islands Dependencies
- South Georgia
After the British Antarctic Territory was created South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands were the only constituents of the Falkland Islands Dependencies.
3. British Antarctic Territory with three predecessors:
- Graham Land
- South Orkneys
- South Shetlands
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I see where you are going with this and I like it. Let me give this some more thought. I would like to find a way to get all of those 1944 Falkland Dependencies together. I may have to bend a rule or two to do it. 
I also need to talk myself into moving Falkland Islands out of South America!
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Here is my first cut at an expanded Smithsonian "One For Every Country" Collection.
REMEMBER THE RULES:
1. No Offices Abroad, Local Stamps, or Occupation stamps. Those go in last section.
2. All dates are stamp issuing dates (although Smithsonian was quite inconsistent, I tried to clean that up).
3. This is MY example of an expansion, for your consideration and comment. You may decide to go a totally different route. That's OK, and please tell us why.
The biggest question here is where to draw the line between Asia and Oceania. I propose making the dividing line between West Papau Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.
This will get us started:
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Hi Lars,
Here are a few thoughts on the Oceania pages:
Australia
- I suggest splitting Tasmania into two, Van Diemen's Land and Tasmania to reflect the change of name of the colony.
Christmas Island
- Politically this is Australian but the islands lie south west of Java.
Cocos Islands
- The same is true for the Cocos Islands which lie even further west.
Papua New Guinea
- There's a typo "PAPAU" in the heading.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
"I suggest splitting Tasmania into two, Van Diemen's Land and Tasmania to reflect the change of name of the colony"
I have really struggled with this sort of thing. I certainly don't want to include every mind-numbing variation of East-European Communist states or Central American Banana Republics, but I also don't want to miss out on fundamental changes when the name doesn't change at all (like Cuba). I will add this to the list for future research, but thanks for pointing this out.
As far as Cocos Islands and Christmas Island are concerned, I think you raise a very good point. That's why, contradictory to what Smithsonian did, I felt compelled to split Asia from Oceania on a cultural/political basis instead of a geographic basis. I put Cocos Islands and Christmas Island in Oceania and West Irian in Asia. I may revisit Cyprus in Asia and Greenland in America some day, but, Yes, I did intentionally depart from Smithsonian here, mainly for the reasons you highlighted.
Thanks for catching the "PAPAU" misspelling. I had hoped it was a Smithsonian misprint, but alas, it was me. I have marked it for correction.
Here is the next batch of pages:
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Hi Lars,
Guam:
Is this the first main entry we've seen which doesn't currently issue its own stamps?
As far as I know the Northern Mariana Islands don't issue stamps either.
Whilst Guam is geographically in the Marianas island group, the German Marianas stamps are not a predecessor of Guam as Guam was acquired by the United States from Spain before Spain sold the other islands to Germany.
Perhaps a new title such as US Territories in Micronesia with no current stamps but two predecessors would work?
Or two separate items, each with no current stamp, but each with one predecessor?
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
"Is this the first main entry we've seen which doesn't currently issue its own stamps?"
The only other one I can think of is Hawaii, and I will post those pages next. (EDIT: Also Danish West Indies, Guadeloupe, Martinique, and Puerto Rico in North America; French Guiana in South America; Reunion in Africa; Graham Land, King Edward VII Land, Victoria Land, South Orkneys, and South Shetlands in Antarctica).
As far as Guam, it appears that Smithsonian intended that we use Scott 1-6 issued 1899 while Mariana was under Spanish Dominion, and that's why they only have 1899 for the year. But that still doesn't explain why Guam is there. Hawaii is a bit different since it is now a state instead of a territory, but you're right, it's awkward at best how they are treated. I will have to give this some thought. I really don't want to move Hawaii to North America as a precedent country of the US! Anybody else have any ideas?
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Hi Lars,
A couple of follow-up comments:
"The only other one I can think of is Hawaii, and I will post those pages next. (EDIT: Also Danish West Indies, Guadeloupe, Martinique, and Puerto Rico in North America; French Guiana in South America; Reunion in Africa; Graham Land, King Edward VII Land, Victoria Land, South Orkneys, and South Shetlands in Antarctica)."
Agreed, although some of these are predecessors of territories that still issue stamps.
"As far as Guam, it appears that Smithsonian intended that we use Scott 1-6 issued 1899 while Mariana was under Spanish Dominion, and that's why they only have 1899 for the year. "
Thanks, I completely forgot about the Spanish Marianas stamps!
You could keep Guam on its own and add the (German) Marianas as a new main entity with the Spanish Marianas as a predecessor.
Cook Islands:
You may wish to split the Cook Islands into three periods:
- British Protectorate
- New Zealand territory from 1901
- Self-government from 1965
The islands of Aitutaki and Penrhyn are both part of the Cook Islands which issue their own stamps (rather like Aland in Finland).
Niue:
I would suggest "New Zealand Territory" as the description for the earlier period.
This started with the request from the island for British annexation and a brief protectorate was followed by transfer of the territory to New Zealand.
Tonga:
It's interesting that the Smithsonian have also included Niuafo'ou (Tin Can Island), the most northerly Tongan island.
Tuvalu:
At least the didn't include stamps issued for Funafuti, Nanumaga and all the other islands!
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Nigel,
I'm tired and it's time for bed for me, but I do want to make one parting point:
""The only other one I can think of is Hawaii, and I will post those pages next. (EDIT: Also Danish West Indies, Guadeloupe, Martinique, and Puerto Rico in North America; French Guiana in South America; Reunion in Africa; Graham Land, King Edward VII Land, Victoria Land, South Orkneys, and South Shetlands in Antarctica).""
Your reply was :
"Agreed, although some of these are predecessors of territories that still issue stamps."
Yes for some, but not most. Don't we need a coherent policy for identifying and dealing with orphans?
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Hi Lars,
I agree and I think you already have a model for this in Guam, Puerto Rico, Danish West Indies and Hawaii.
I suggest the same would make sense for each of the Mariana Islands, Reunion and French Guiana (with predecessor Inini).
I would see Graham Land, the South Shetlands and the South Orkneys to be predecessors of the the British Antarctic Territory.
Similarly, I would see Victoria Land and King Edward VII Land stamps to be possible predecessors of the Ross Dependency although they were only used on one expedition each.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Well here's Antarctica:
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
Hi Lars,
Nice to see all the Antarctic stamps together!
I would set out the British Territories to reflect the current situation:
1. Falkland Islands
2. South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands with two predecessors:
- Falkland Islands Dependencies
- South Georgia
After the British Antarctic Territory was created South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands were the only constituents of the Falkland Islands Dependencies.
3. British Antarctic Territory with three predecessors:
- Graham Land
- South Orkneys
- South Shetlands
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Oceania and Antarctica)
I see where you are going with this and I like it. Let me give this some more thought. I would like to find a way to get all of those 1944 Falkland Dependencies together. I may have to bend a rule or two to do it.
I also need to talk myself into moving Falkland Islands out of South America!
Login to Like
this post