Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
"Do people over charge on E-Bay?
Is it me or do people over charge on E-Bay by like 2-3X the stamp worth.I've been looking some Souvenir Sheets for my U.S. Collection and I've seen people charge between $10-$20 for a $6 souvenir sheet.Do they think stamp collectors are idiots or something I guess they never heard of a pricing Catalogue?"
I wonder if we are having some of the same problem here? I see as of late a flood of material (just a few sellers) that, to me, is over priced. And it does not sell, but reappears on auctions regularly. Do some of you feel the same way, and should a stamp club selling platform be managed differently than a commercial site? I know Ian is going to object to my tinkering with "free market", and yes, eventually a lack of successful sales may deter the seller, but it is clutter now and it does make the search for what you need more difficult, especially when a large percentage of the auction posts seem to fall under this label. And as of late, I have not had a lot of free time, so I feel a bit frustrated by this flood of material I have to skip repeatedly! A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?
Are we monitoring somehow to Auctions to avoid the relisting of items that don't sell? I know it is not easy!
Any words of wisdom?
rrr...
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Didn't we have a limit on how often you could relist an item and if you relisted you had to reduce the price?
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Well said. Takes ages to scroll through those same items from the same people, night after night after night. There's more than one person doing it too. Seems to me it's like someone saying "Look at my collection. You can look but you cannot afford it". Well even if I could afford it, I would never buy from it. Put simply, it's overpriced. secondly, I want to buy from sellers who also have a record of buying items, not just selling items. It shows me that they collect stamps, rather than just dispose of stamps.
Some of them don't even accept PayPal, which makes paying extremely difficult. I think a limit should apply to sellers constantly relisting the same item(s) without any significant reduction in the minimum bidding price.
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06:41:00pm
I agree with you, there are a couple (no more than that) who are a fair bit overpriced. I still occasionally pick up the odd stamp from them if it's something I really want. I know I shouldn't do it, especially since most sellers stick to very reasonable prices. Some dealers sell at less than 10% CV where some others are well over 50% on a regular basis. I don't really want to mention names, but I've picked up some great stuff on SoR and there are even a few E-Bay dealers I buy from regularly who are also very fair. Also remember some people are selling on several online sources at the same time at fair prices on all sites. But there are a couple of dealers who are very optimistic and maybe we should just ignore their stuff, but again, they do have the right to try, just as we have to right to ignore them!!
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There is an option to exclude particular sellers from the listing though I find its a bit cumbersome to use. I sympathize with anyone who would be assigned the task of deciding what constitutes a fair price.
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rrraphy:- I will not disappoint you by saying let the market decide!!
HOWEVER
Why are the buyers not educating themselves on how to use the various search functions available on Stamporama???
I have said the following in the past so I shall repeat it.
When a Seller lists an item here it depends on several factors whether the item sells or not:-
a) What the item is.
b) What price it is.
c) What time of day it is listed.
d) What day of the week it is listed.
e) Who is actually watching when the item is listed.
f) Who is actually watching for the 24 hours it is classified as "All New Items"
g) What time of day the item ends.
h) What day of the week the item ends.
i) Who is actually watching when the item ends.
j) Who is actually watching for the 24 hours the item is classified as "Closing in 24 Hours"
k) Who actually finds that item during the whole period it is listed.
Experienced sellers know beyond reasonable doubt that all these variable factors are in play for EVERY item that is listed. In other words it is a lottery for the seller whether he sells an item or not.
"A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?"
Limit the numbers and you reduce the choice for members. Statistics prove that the total number of items listed on the Auctions has never exceeded 6000 (Which is equal to 50-60 Approval Books).
The system we currently have works reasonably well, it is simple to use both from the sellers point of view and the buyers. You can buy stamps from 5 Cents to Tens of Dollars.
You will NEVER please all the members all of the time.
Humans can be complex, illogical, self centred, self important, I know better than all, do it my way and do it NOW.
OR
Tolerant, respectful, knowledgeable, helpful, logical, unselfish, willing to see the other persons point of view.
As I said complex!!
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"Didn't we have a limit on how often you could relist an item and if you relisted you had to reduce the price?"
Philatelia:- The price reduction comes into play if the Seller relists an item using the Unsold/Relist button
BUT
I believe that a Seller can get round this by using the Bulk Uploader.
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'
One perfectly valid selling strategy is to post a high price, and wait for the guy who'll pay it ... whether out of ignorance, carelessness, desperation, convenience, or whimsy.
Another perfectly valid selling strategy is to decide that a nickel today is better than a dime tamara, and price the stuff to move.
Part of the problem for dealers is that collectors are not a homogeneous lot, even if they are mostly old white men. From filling holes to filling albums to filling stock books, needs vary ... as do means ... as do moods ...
I suspect many store/table dealers run a bit of a Dutch auction; if they get tired of seeing collectors look at something and hand it back, they lower the price.
I suspect that eCommerce dealers do not have the same tactile experience and, therefor, are more likely to sit firm & wait for Mr Right.
In any event, I do not think that we should try to legislate one sort of behavior over another ... for more reasons than I've got stamps.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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"A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?"
No. Will never happen.
"Didn't we have a limit on how often you could relist an item"
Yes, but we ran into serious programming problems, and so the restriction was removed.
"if you relisted you had to reduce the price? "
See Ian's comment.
"should a stamp club selling platform be managed differently than a commercial site?"
Yes. On Stamporama it is managed differently, and always has been.
"I see as of late a flood of material (just a few sellers) that, to me, is over priced."
As you said, to you it seems to be over-priced. Pricing is relative to each prospective buyer. A posted price may be too high, too low, or just right. It is for the buyer to decide what it is. If you don't like the price, either don't buy it, or contact the seller to see if you can negotiate a better price that you both can agree on, providing that there is no bid on the lot. Still, negotiations need to be reasonable. To try to negotiate a buy price of 50 cents for a $10.00 stamp is usually not realistic or fair to the seller.
We will not institute any policies that require sellers to sell at a certain price or discount. However, if you see fraudulent activity with serious over-pricing of a misrepresented common stamp (often seen on Ebay), we need to know about this right away so we can investigate. Fortunately this happens very rarely here. (Also, see Ian's comments.)
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The one thing about the auctions I do not understand is the number of stamps listed selling at 5 cents or thereabouts.
The time the seller takes to sort, catalogue, scan and then list is considerable in time costs and even electricity used. It is much more efficient to make up an Approval book.
I say I do not understand the reasoning but if it works for the seller and the seller enjoys what they are doing then that's OK. We are all allowed to work within the rules.
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An important point to remember is that any rule that cannot be automated by the forum software must be policed by a member. This pits member against member which can be extremely unpleasant for the person acting as the enforcer.
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I seldom bother looking through the new listings in the auctions. I know some sellers do not use the correct categories, but I look in the categories that I'm interested in, and the new items are always on top. I'm sure I bypass some things I may have wanted, but if it's not in the proper category, I'm not going to see it or buy it. -This happens with covers more than one would think.
Approval books on the other hand, are a step closer to my philatelic heaven. To be the first one going through a book on topic I seek, is grand! 
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As a person who has taken advantage of the auction function here on StampoRama over the last couple of months, I find all of the comments above interesting and helpful. I would like to add a wish of my own as well as answer several questions others have posted.
I would like to be able to post at least three pictures for an individual item. Although it would be rare that I would do this, it would be useful where I have an expert committee certificate for the stamp that is being offered for sale. Since I always post a picture of the front and the back of each stamp, the only option I have found to post a picture of the expert committee certificate is to do so in the "Stamp Auction Notes and Notices" comment section. Being able to post three (or preferably four or five) pictures for a single item would also allow me to post individual pictures of the scroll work from each side of early British stamps where a close-up picture of the plate number could be taken or on German stamps were Michel cataloged fly-speck close-ups can be pictured along with a picture of a normal stamp.
I listed a number of Austrian stamps for auction back in March, putting them up for a period of one or two weeks (I don't remember which). I noticed that all activity on each stamp took place very shortly after the auctions were posted or just before they closed with absolutely no activity in between. So when I started listing auctions again a few months ago I limited them for three days. They still seem to sell well, so this apparently is more than enough time to give those willing to purchase from the auctions time to do so.
Once an auction closes without a sale, I do not relist. That stamp then gets listed in my store on another site. Since I only list 25-30 auctions at a maximum each day, my open auction total never exceeds about one hundred stamps.
I have not been purchasing any stamps for the last several years. I have such a hoarding tendency when it comes to stamp purchases that I decided I just needed to stop. I have more than two rooms full of philatelic material lining the walls, with more overflowing into a couple of other areas. What I decided to do was slowly work through all this material at my own pace, listing everything for sale. While it may seem like I am only selling and not actually collecting, that is not actually the case. I realized a while back that I could form an electronic collection. Since I take a high quality picture of each individual stamp (at least I believe my stamp photos are high quality) and I save them by country and catalog number, I could keep these pictures as a record of my collection. I don't delete any pictures in case of returns, etc., so my stamp picture inventory is slowly growing. I have a digital backup of my data files take place automatically by third-party software, so I don't have to worry about theft, fire, or any other sort of damage (and this has saved me from hard-drive crashes). When I find time to do so in the future, I can place the best picture for each individual issue and save them into a separate file as my stamp collection, with only one picture for each stamp issue (for many stamps I have multiple copies).
I do sell a lot of material at a starting price of one cent or Buy-It-Now at three cents. These are for the common stamps that Scott lists at 25 cents. I auction them rather than use the Approval method because I like to show a picture of both front and back of each stamp. For many people this is not important, but for me it always was. When I was still purchasing stamps, I often received material where only the front of the stamp was pictured or where a group of stamps were pictured all clumped together. The poorly centered stamps, those with perforation issues, etc., where usually hidden away behind those that were more visually appealing. And I have received MINT-NEVER-HINGED items where the back of the stamp was heavily toned and once where it looked like the stamp had been dropped on the floor and then the castors on the chair had been rolled over it several times before it had been picked up again. So I list individually using the auction function so that each stamp can be sold individually with a clear picture of both the front and the back of each stamp shown. It is just way I would have prefered to have stamps offered for sale when I was purchasing individual stamps.
This is still my hobby. In my mind, hobbies are interesting activities that are meant to take up free time. My stamp auction hobby here on StampoRama takes up a lot of time each day and the return is minimal, but I am not doing this trying to make a living. For me it is fun and that is all that matters.
As mentioned by others, there are a lot of ways that one can collect. My way might be a bit unique but who other myself who should care?
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You could show the front and backs of stamps with an approval book. You could show the front of each stamp on the odd numbered pages, and the back of the stamps on the even numbered pages. For the pages showing the backs of the stamps, just inactivate each item number so that no one can purchase from the page. In the page comments section, notate what you did. For example, on the even numbered pages, you can state, "See the backs of the stamps on the next page", and on the odd numbered page state, "Backs of stamps listed on the previous page", or something like that. Maybe include the page numbers to avoid confusion. You just have to make sure that your book meets the minimum quantity for what you are offering in the book.
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"... I do not understand is the number of stamps listed selling at 5 cents or thereabouts ..."
For some sellers, the selling seems to be a social activity.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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I understand this is a discussion about Stamporama sellers overpricing. The OP offered a prior post about this sort of thing happening on Ebay.
Has anyone else scratched their head at some of the listings under the 'Supplies' category? Sellers offering Scott Specialty binders with cases at $70 and up? Other items listed at prices well above full retail? Same for mounts. Is this just sort of a convenience thing for some folks who don't want to take time to surf for decent buys?
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My part post
""... I do not understand is the number of stamps listed selling at 5 cents or thereabouts ..."
"
Ikeypikey's comment
"For some sellers, the selling seems to be a social activity."
My previous comment
" if it works for the seller and the seller enjoys what they are doing then that's OK. We are all allowed to work within the rules."
Context is everything.
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Snick1946:-
Price is in the eye of the seller or the buyer.
Micheal was right when he said
"Pricing is relative to each prospective buyer. A posted price may be too high, too low, or just right. It is for the buyer to decide what it is."
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Snick1946 - you need to look at how the listing is set up to sell. As an ebay seller I use different prices for the exact same stamp on Hipstamp, because a) I offer free postage on Ebay and b) I accept offers for everything. If the person selling the binder is offering free postage it is most certainly built into the price. Amazon spoiled people and they check the free postage box on ebay listings, never checking to see if the same thing is available with postage cheaper. I know this because people have bought things from me that surprised me (LP's) where there were cheaper choices out there to be bought. On my books and records I always add 2 pounds of media mail postage to the asking price and accept no offer that is less than half of what I am looking to get as a price. It's all about knowing what appeals to the buyers on the site you are selling on.
Greg
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04:13:57pm
"I would like to be able to post at least three pictures for an individual item."
You can include as many pictures in the description field of an item as you want.
Since the auction listing allows the use of HTML, all you have to do is place the images somewhere accessible on the internet (there is lots of cheap (or free) storage space around). Then include the HTML image tag in the description. I can't show an example of an image tag here, because the Discussion Board does not allow HTML, however, here is a guide here: https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_img.asp
Roy
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04:54:12pm
"Quote:
"A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?"
No. Will never happen."
Don't say "never". All it will take is 2 or 3 Bozos using the bulk listing tool to constantly relist unsalable stamps by the thousands, taking advantage of Stamporama's generous policies without regard to the "general good", and you will see how fast the policies change.
For years I have campaigned for a maximum listing ceiling of about 100 items per member, until a seller earns higher listing limits by exceeding minimum "sell-through" rates -- effectively, allowing the market to decide who is a seller that is actually useful to the membership. (Easily achieved with software -- no monitoring required.)
Allowing a member, who does nothing else on this site, to regularly relist 500+ items that exhibit a sell through rate of 2% is sheer nonsense.
In general, most of the membership is very good. We have many member sellers who have very high sell-through rates. Others with low sell-through rates tend to have low numbers of total listings, i.e. the market is telling them "we're not crazy about your stamps" and they aren't going "listing crazy".
We have two member sellers who are responsible for 40,000 auction listings so far in 2019, with only 455 sales between them! That is a 1.14% sell-through rate. The membership market is rejecting their material and they aren't listening.
Ok, you say, assuming 1 week listings, that represents 800 lots of stamps, of which only 8 on average sell per week. Given that the total number of lots is usually around 4,000, that is only 20% of the auction that is "wasted space". You might say "we can tolerate that".
But can we tolerate 10 more users like them who care about nothing but peddling their 98.86% unwanted merchandise on a free site?
Roy
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Roy, I agree with your position of having a merit system for sellers like you outlined.
In addition I am in favor of not permitting new members instant access to sell/buy until they have been a member for a while.
There are pros and cons to both of these items, and I understand both sides. The Management Team has and does discuss this from time to time. Thus far, the cons have outweighed the pros.
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Roy I am in total agreement, except that I think we have been very tolerant of the few sellers who repeatedly list items that don't sell. The rule (there was a rule) about not posting more than 3 times, and to drop prices 20% each time you repost ought to be enforced on the honor system, and failure to respect it should be enough to suspend listing privileges, after fair warnings. We are a club and mutual respect is a rule I consider essential.
rrr...
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Roy's comments make a lot of sense to me. There are always a few who exceed the bounds of common sense. I have never bought from the auctions generally from a postage vs price issue for a single small item. Nevertheless i do check it out from time to time and there are a couple of names that i immediately consign to the exclude bin. As pointed out as well that is the only place i ever see that name. Its an issue of small amount but i can see that if you were keen about the auctions it could quickly become very irritating.
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Looks like you guys are gearing up to run my BIN auctions out of town. A shame as collectors like the fact that they can sometimes wait a few weeks to buy something as it will be there for 8 weeks. The beauty is that they don't have to scan through approval books that don't tell you exactly to the stamp what is in them (a major gripe of mine). I guess I'll have to get another concept ready to go.......
As an aside I do monitor my percentages in regular auctions and BIN auctions. I chose 8 weeks as a max on a BIN auction as if there is no interest after 8 weeks, it is pointless to keep listing it. My BIN sales on a weekly basis are usually in the 20-30% range depending on who is buying. That often outpaces my new approval books the first week. I have considered lowering the prices on the group that is going to be rolled off, but they are already at 20% catalog value, as are all of my auctions. Of course you could raise the starting price to 60% CV and lower it week by week, and that may actually work as how many people can afford a Scott catalog to know? It may also make people think they are getting a bargain when they pick something up for less though it would be more than you were going to sell it for in the first place. Kind of like accepting best offers on Ebay. That may actually be a better idea than the one I originally had should the powers that be trash my BIN listings. Or perhaps setting things with a "real price" and a BIN price where the real price is in the title of the listing and the BIN price is the one that gets reduced. Will make my job of invoicing tougher as I will have to subtract from it but it solves the 20% reduction issue on a week by week basis. Decisions, decisions.
Greg
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Greg, what makes you think we're going to be changing the Auctions? I would never recommend to the others on the Management Team that we get rid of BINs.
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Michael, not getting rid of the BIN's but the not allowing auctions to run more than one week without lowering the price. That's how my Monday night BIN's are set up, with a spreadsheet, I have to remove all the sold items and then add my new ones to the sheet, deleting the unsold after 8 weeks. Certainly I could lower the prices by 20% after raising them on the sheet to 60% rather than 20% which they currently are. If need be I will do that but I am thinking it may just be easier to put the BIN price at 100% SCV and put the 20% price in the title line. Then I can just use a formula each week on the spreadsheet to lower the prices by 20%, and adjust the invoices to the real sale price. A pain, but if its got to be done that way I'll do it
Greg
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The price reduction in the auctions only happens when a seller manually relists an unsold auction lot. The Team is not discussing anything related to making changes in the auctions.
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Jings! Crivvens! Help Ma Boab!
This Topic on the discussion board has had very little movement from July to now.
Then rrraphy throws in a grenade then BINGO!!
Don't you just love it!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE186w91YVU
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Except that Ralph said
"I think we have been very tolerant of the few sellers who repeatedly list items that don't sell. The rule (there was a rule) about not posting more than 3 times, and to drop prices 20% each time you repost ought to be enforced on the honor system, and failure to respect it should be enough to suspend listing privileges, after fair warnings. We are a club and mutual respect is a rule I consider essential."
Sounds to me that he wants that enforced for those that are bulk uploading the same items week after week, manually changing the prices on the spreadsheet
Greg
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I said much earlier in this thread that selling in the auctions here is a lottery.
What does not sell in May can sell in August.
I listed some items two months ago, they didn't sell, I listed them again yesterday.
SURPRISE!...SURPRISE!
I have bids on some of them this morning.
Selling on here is a lottery.
Why?
There are a small number of members!
That's Life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKQlA1tZbvw
I ain't complaining!!
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Ian you are right about things selling that did not sell before. While I see it in approval books all the time, other than my BIN auctions, my auctions do not get relisted but are instead sent to other sites. It is however all about who is home, who is away, who has money to spend this week, who doesn't, who is online to see the auctions first, etc etc. You can go crazy trying to figure it out.
Greg
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As a relatively new member and recent convert to stamp collecting, I endorsed the original thoughts at the top of this thread. Certain members take over both the auction and the approval portals, and their prices are well above what others are offering the same items at. When I made my comments, I never bought of soundcrest, and can say that the people whom I was talking about have not yet joined this conversation. Probably because they do not take part in other activities on SoR.
I am of the opinion that if someone puts over 300 items on, let's just say the US auction site, and leaves them up for months on end with next to no sales, they should take them down and allow others prominence to sell things which actually move.
I owned and managed my own retail business for 30 years. If something was not selling in the window, it was either put in the stockroom, or discounted to get it out the door. It certainly was not kept in the window.
And to Michael who is in favour of restricting new members ability to post items for sale, what purpose will that serve? To my mind, and after checking my facts here, the biggest culprits have been members for over 10 years. New members feel intimidated by the same vendors dominating listings. Perhaps he should consider limiting the number of items a member can list over a period of time, or even ensure that every member is asked to either buy or sell a minimum number of items each month or year.
I can only speak for myself, but I am discouraged from looking through auctions because the same sellers dominate the listings, and I feel that items I want to auction will not be given prominence.
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"I can only speak for myself, but I am discouraged from looking through auctions because the same sellers dominate the listings, and I feel that items I want to auction will not be given prominence"
Gudgie:- Please do not feel intimidated.
ALL the sellers here were once "newbies".
If you list any items here you will have the same prominence as any one else. The New Items category will show your items for the same length of time as the rest of us. The Closing in 24 hours section will provide the same result. The majority of bids are laid down within the first 24 hours or during the last 24 hours of the auction.
There are certain days that appear to have many new items listed and many closing items.
There are also days where there are few new listings or closing items. (mostly Tuesday, Wednesday).
May I suggest that if you do list, do it as a group of 10 or 20, and when you list change the "Active" button to "place on hold" and when you have finished all your items click on the "Activate on Hold" button. This will list your items in a block, thus your items will be better "noticed".
It takes time and experimentation to find out what suits.
Please give it a try. Patience, perseverence, and a wee drop oil and you'll master it!
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"You can go crazy trying to figure it out."
Greg:- I can only say "Wibble, wibble, wibble. I am a small building in London called Norman and I live on the moon which is made of strawberry ice-cream!"
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Within 1 week of joining SoR I posted around 10 items, all different, in the approvals section. Within 24 hours these items had been removed by some still unknown person, and the reason given was unintelligible. To most others that would have been intimidating, but not to gudgie. Despite my request for an explanation, none was forthcoming. That to most others was intimidating. Not to gudgie
I did check out the sheriff's club. I did find that intimidating, so I gave up on that.
I tried again on SoR, putting up items both on auctions and approval, and they sold very very well. One springs to mind where 85% of items on 10 pages sold within 24 hours. That cheered me up. Those items I have put on have done really well, so I am not taking part in this discussion from a beginners viewpoint.
This discussion is about vendors using SoR to show off overpriced items, whether to overcharge members, or to glorify themselves and their collection. It's not about new members and whether they should be allowed to put items up for sale. If you want to encourage new members, contact them and offer continued contact. Since the day I joined, every person who has been in touch with me in any way, I have responded to at length, both seeking advice, and offering assistance. Maybe others should try that.
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Gudgie you presented some interesting ideas. Thank you for that.
As for your approval book, it was inactivated as told to you because the approval book did not comply with the minimum requirements for posting such a book. We love seeing new people join in the different areas here, but to do so, one has to take a moment to learn the rules. We can't have approval books that contain just a couple of stamps in them. I'm sure you can understand the reason why.
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to continue, sort of, with the hand grenade metaphor: wow, a blast from the past... or, like a claymore, tons of them
Yes, we have at least one seller who sells stuff that you can buy below face for amounts that are often at or above full CV. a few of the offerings are uncommon, but most of it is easily found and at discounted prices.
And there's tons of nickel and penny sellers.
The auctioneers and management have occasionally tried to rein in one or another of these practices, and usually get our heads handed to us for our trouble. I think we've learned to keep our regulatory hands to ourselves.
At the same time, Ralph initiated the Approval section in an effort to move more of the penny lots out of the auction. In its own way, it has been wildly successful, although it didn't necessarily accomplish that specific goal.
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"This discussion is about vendors using SoR to show off overpriced items, whether to overcharge members, or to glorify themselves and their collection."
That's some assumption.
Could it not be that the seller is not educated enough to realise they have put on "too high a price" and does not realise they are "overcharging"?
Here is a simple question
Seller A has listed a stamp at $10.00, Seller B has listed the same stamp at $20.00.
Which one is deliberately "Overcharging".
Answer.......NEITHER!!
I'll give you all a day to work out the reasoning!!
You can private message me with your responses if you like or post it on this thread!
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I agree with Roy's post. There are sellers who have monopolized the auctions. There are currently 639 auctions in United States and over 300 of them are one seller, and yes that overpriced stuff. That same seller has had 500-600 listings in the category at different times.
As said, it's easy for dealers to dump their entire Hip Stamp inventory here with the bulk uploader. Why because it's easy and free. If nothing sells, it's nothing ventured, nothing gained. If they make a few sales, they're happy.
In the meantime, as others said, people get tired of slogging through page after page of the same seller / over priced stuff. When I go in to look, I immediately exclude that seller, but many people aren't that computer savvy to know how to do it. Those are the people who then go away.
If this indeed is supposed to be a collector to collector medium for the fun of it, maybe eliminating this type of bulk seller is as easy as eliminating the bulk listing tool? Thoughts?
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Has anyone sent the overpriced sellers a message to inform them about the complaints from the membership? Maybe they are totally unaware that their pricing and/or listing practices are annoying the members. Perhaps they think everything is fine because they haven’t heard differently.
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Ian: Don't you love it?
"Then rrraphy throws in a grenade then BINGO!!"
I know it is easier to leave things untouched, but I for one always seek improvements (that others resist). And some times, it is good to shut up, and I have done that too.
My post referred to old similar remarks in a previous discussion, years ago, one posted by someone else, about ebay, and while ebay is impossible to deal with individually for any corrective measures, at least here at Stamporama, all the moderators and management have been SUPERBLY responsive to ideas, often responding the same day, always ready to change and also arguing to not rock the boat. (I understand that too, but Ian would hate it, if I did not, from time to time).
I did not want to suggest MY solution, but just to throw the subject open for discussion, and see if anyone else felt annoyed (Remark: it has been increasingly annoying to me, in Auctions, because of the volume of items that come under this topic, even if just initiated by one or two listers). I did not want to suggest any other "rule" related changes or blanket enforcement intervention, but for those few listers, I think we could intervene by enforcing selectively the rule for not listing more than 3 times..not mechanically rewriting software since it is technically complicated, by manually with a message asking for voluntary compliance. That is all. I know it puts the moderators in the spot and unfortunately not all members are civil, but it goes with the territory.
I think both Auctions and Approvals are gems here and work well. As a Club, we owe it to our members to avoid abuse of rule, and protect the inexperienced ones as we nurture their collecting skills, and this is different than a commercial site where the free market (and abuses) run rampant.
My experience, when I ran Approvals, is that most "faults" are due to ignorance of the rule, lack of computer skills, or missing out on a key reason why we do things a certain way. Most people here are quite nice to correct mistakes, and it is very rare that anyone has to be more forcefully "punished". Just sending a private message or two and explaining things, has almost always worked.
Someone mentioned the ability to block a name, but I was not aware of such a tool. It would work for me if we had it, but my objection when looking at 800 Auction items "newly listed" and 400+ fall under my categorization and probably have been listed again and again (I did not check). I takes skills and time to avoid the wasted energy and time scanning through them but most people don't know the software capabilities of Stamporama's platforms, or just give up...and some like me just eventually get annoyed and post.
Again, I was not planning to start a huge discussion of changes and limitations or rule enforcement, but just to see if we could reign in the few listers at fault.
rrr...
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"it's easy for dealers to dump their entire Hip Stamp inventory here with the bulk uploader"
I do believe this is against the site rules. You are not supposed to list stamps you are selling elsewhere. Michael? It's easy enough to check as the main spots are Ebay and Hip and if the images are identical.......
I can tell you from just doing my weekly BIN spreadsheet, checking it and rechecking it every week is a bit time consuming BUT I think I have put some very nice stamps into peoples collections. We're talking of maybe 150 items to check each week sometimes less depending on the prior weeks sales. To do an inventory dump and cross check it back week after week would take a considerable amount of time for what I think would be a very poor return on time spent. I find it hard to believe that anyone is doing that. I agree that running the same listings for 6-12 months or more is a bit much, but why penalize everyone for the actions of one?
Ralph how do you plan on enforcing that 3 and done rule? Does it mean that the stamps can never be listed again? Listed again in a month? 3 months? A year? I mentioned before that I can play the reduction game and adhere to a bulk lister rule by listing at 100% CV as a BIN and charging what the title says, not the price. More work for me but so be it
Why do you want penalize the collector who wants something now but cannot afford it and hopes that the stamp will still be there in 4-5 weeks? Is that fair? If I am the collector looking to buy something and you tell me that due to the rules I cannot, then I take offense to someone telling ME what I can buy and what i cannot buy. I can tell you with my 8 week BIN limit there have been stamps that were part of the next roll off, meaning that they would be gone the following week, that sold to collectors. Could they have afforded the stamps earlier? We don't know.
If you are going to implement any auction rule like this, the fairest way is to do it by percentage of auction lots sold. If you are listing 500 lots and have 2 sales week after week then something needs to be done to your listings.
For the slogging,perhaps part of the problem is the displaying of 30 records at a time. Is there is a way to change it to 100 or more? If there is, I could not find it.
Greg
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04:54:12pm
"For the slogging,perhaps part of the problem is the displaying of 30 records at a time. Is there is a way to change it to 100 or more? If there is, I could not find it."
Go to:
Home >> Members >> Edit Your membership information
Scroll down to the Auction section and you will see this:
Edit, click and it's done.
(not sure if there is an upper limit.)
Roy
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Here's how to exclude a specific seller from your auction list results.
1. Select that seller by highlighting their name (note I have scratched out names, not naming anyone, just how the screen came up)
2. Select "Exclude"
3. Hit "Refresh"
The list will no longer have that seller on it.
Note that in Step 2. you can also say "Display Only" and you will only see that seller's auctions. This is useful when you have purchased something from someone and you want to get your purchase amount up to maximize your postage costs.
When you are done, you will need to go back to Step 2 and select "Display All".
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Greg:
"Ralph how do you plan on enforcing that 3 and done rule? Does it mean that the stamps can never be listed again? Listed again in a month? "
I am only suggesting that we deal with the few abusers of the system (abuser..my interpretation) When you were software forced to lower prices by 20% every time you re-liste, it de facto enforced the 3 time limit re-listing rule, unless you just wanted to get rid of items at any price. Use of bulk loaders allow circumventing the re-posting and price reduction rule. But we can also operate on an HONOR system, and repeatedly abusing the rule could be handled, with warning, temporary(one or more time period) suspension(s), and eventually permanent. No one is suggesting checking every item and every seller.
The 3 time posting limit and 20% reduction in starting auction price were good conceptional ideas. Wish we had them, although for penny auctions I am all for not including them. It does not eliminate abuse, but it may help.
Nothing works better in my view than personal private intervention, although, as a moderator, you are possibly singled out for unpleasant verbal abuse (by a very few). Goes with the territory and I hope the moderator have a tough skin.
I moderate a neighborhood web site, and you learn to ignore the occasional abuse, or threats to report you to higher authorities
.rrr...
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rraphy said:-
"but just to see if we could reign in the few listers at fault."
I have always found that a quiet word in a "miscreants" ear works far better than making a song and dance about it.
Maybe even a question or making your concern known privately to the Management Team rather than "lobbing a grenade" which results in the opening of a "can of worms" is a better way to go.
Of course the simple solution is to remove the Bulk Uploader facility from the "miscreants" if they continue after their "bending" of the rules is brought to their attention.
Realistically all members should learn how to work the search, inclusive and exclusive systems available.
All members should remember to have patience, tolerance and understand that not everybody has their knowledge and experience.
Also that you will never have a system that is 100% perfect and the system we have covers most of the members needs.
Finally remember that stamporama is run by volunteers and it is only through the kindness of Roy that we have this club.
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Big thanks to rrraphy for raising what is a big irritation to me as a member of Stamporama. Likewise thanks to BenFranklin for showing me how to get rid of these pesky people when looking to buy stamps. And a big thanks to auctioneer for finally telling me why my initial attempt to put books up for approval were unceremoniously removed without explanation. Hopefully this thread will be as educational for others as it has been to me.
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Maybe they are anticipating a dramatic increase in stamp prices and trying to cash in early.
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Thanks Roy! I never knew you could change it. Ralph, as for penny auctions they all sell every week, 64 out of 64. Used to always be for a penny, so much so that I had cut them back here. Now many get 2 or 3 bids. Obviously people like them. Sure i could take them and lump them into approval books with no catalog numbers like most people do but I am totally opposed to doing that. It works for some but I just won't do that unless its a topical issue.
If it was all about making a buck, I would not sell stamps. Profit margin is not huge when you sell cheap and its probably a complete wash or a loss if you count up what does not sell.
Greg
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07:17:16pm
"Nothing works better in my view than personal private intervention, "
I strongly disagree. One always gets into the "grey zone", that area where the behaviour isn't egregious, but is annoying nonetheless. The extreme abuses are clear, the middle ones are not.
In my opinion, rational limits, that apply to everyone and that can be easily applied without rancor, opinion or other personal preference are the way to go. Telling someone that his goods are overpriced is inappropriate. Let the market tell him through lack of sales. And if you are going to use "lack of sales" as a measuring stick, then measure it!
Try this on for size:
(quantities and numbers are open for discussion -- these are my idea as an opening position)
a) all members are entitled to have 100 lots open at any given time (100 lot limit). Listings are subject to the other rules of the auction, but nobody will tell them "it's too expensive" or "your stuff is too cheap". Let them run their business/hobby, whatever it is to them any way they want.
As of yesterday, there were 35 active sellers, only 12 of which had over 100 lots open, so the other 23 sellers won't even notice this limit.
b) As sellers prove their experience and merit, they can request limit increases (click a button). The suggested rules for limit increases is:
First limit increase -- to 250 lots.
i) Experience -- Must have sold 250 lots in the last 6 months (if you aren't selling that much, why do you need more than 100 lots at a time?). Not measuring listed, only SOLD.
ii) have a sell through rate (# sold / # listed) over that 6 months over 20%. (Listings include relistings.) If you aren't selling more than 20% of your listings, you need to rethink your offerings (price, quality, content), and we (the membership) don't need to see an increase in offers until you work it out.
Second limit increase -- to 500 lots.
Reserved for our very best sellers.
Sales: 500 lots in the previous 6 months (they would already have had the benefit of the 250 lot limit
Sell through rate: 35% (If you're not selling a good portion of what you are listing, we don't need to see 500 lots at a time)
That's it. This is not a commercial site, we have a limited membership, so nobody needs more than 500 listings.
Please don't argue the mechanics of doing it. This is so simple it's ridiculous. One more field in the members area "Your Auction limit", one line of code in the listing process "Is limited exceeded? Yes? >> Stop". The metrics are available with a single database query.
The numbers I ran yesterday don't exactly match the measurements above, but they will do as an approximation for measuring the effect. The difference is that I ran the numbers for all of 2019, not "the last 6 months". However, given that, here was the impact:
12 sellers accounted for 3495 listings out of a total 4220 current listings.
Nobody had more than 500 lots.
4 sellers would have qualified for the 500 lot limit.
4 sellers would have qualified for the 250 lot limit
6 sellers out of the 12 who had more than 100 lots would have experienced restrictions to their listings by the application of these rules.
1 because he has sold only 8 items, but has almost 500 lots - a newbie -- did really well on sell through, but that's too quick growth.
1 because he has sold just under the 250 lots, but he will soon qualify for 250 lot increase
1 because his sell through rate is just over 1% - and the source of most of the complaints in this thread.
3 who are close to 500 lots each, but would qualify only for the 250 lot limit because of sell through rates between 20% and 34.9%
The net effect of applying these limits would be to reduce the number of current auction lots by about 1200 (from 4200 to 3000).
I would also propose, for simplicity's sake, that this measurement is not intended to be constantly reviewed in order change a sellers limit up and down. I would say that once a limit increase has been earned, it remains, subject to review and re-measurement only if the seller's behaviour or selling pattern changes markedly in a manner detrimental to the auction.
Please note this post is for discussion purposes only! It does not represent new auction policy.
Roy
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for the record; we did have a four and done policy on auctions at one point. We enforced it by using the PRESUMABLY unique picture label stored in the auction database.
Of course, some people use the same auction picture label for multiple images, thereby causing all sorts of unintended problems to the innocents who were caught in our four-layered web.
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I browse the auctions when I feel like it, I buy what I feel like buying. I hadn't even noticed there was a problem!
Just sitting here watching this unfold....
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"The extreme abuses are clear, the middle ones are not."
I'd suggest just dealing with the extreme abusers. I don't see a need to change the system.
Roy has access to the statistics and can point out the people who have posted huge amounts of auctions (mostly buy-it-now) and have had very low sell through rates.
Check to see if they are members of the community-- people who participate in the message boards, and do things other than just use the selling feature. Give community members some leeway.
And just can the few out and out abusers. Nothing lost!
By the way, the three main model car hobby boards don't allow any selling, and only one has a trading board. You know why!
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I have a problem with limits.
Namely it is obvious that someone could put up 100 lots at 10 cents sell 99 and his sales would be 99%. (Total Sales $9.99).
Someone could put up 100 lots at an average of $2 sell 15 out of the 100 and his unit sales would be 15%. (Total Sales $30).
Members sometimes moan about the "quality" of listings, that there is not enough better quality stamps.
My solution to the whole situation is LEAVE WELL ALONE!!
The system has worked reasonably well and if members do not want to trawl through the (to them) so called " Overpriced" stamps let them use the SEARCH SYSTEMS AVAILABLE PROPERLY.
Earlier in this post I asked this question:-
"Seller A has listed a stamp at $10.00, Seller B has listed the same stamp at $20.00.
Which one is deliberately "Overcharging".
Answer.......NEITHER!!"
The reasoning behind the answer is simple:-
NEITHER deliberately overcharged because Seller A used a catalogue from 2010 and Seller B used a catalogue from 2019!!!!
OR
Seller A Used the Scott Catalogue and Seller B used the Stanley Gibbons catalogue.
rrraphy. To Quote Colonel Jack O'Neill "Back At You".
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Dave:-
There is no problem its just one or two moaners.
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AS I said earlier since the 7th of August there have been 5 threads listed in this Topic of the Discussion Board, Six including this thread.
That shows the Auctions are running well and no action is needed on this subject.
This is my final word on the matter, I'm off to bed as its 01.45hrs.
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I resent being called a moaner.
I responded to this discussion by agreeing with a new thread originated by Roy Lingen, who happens to be the person by whose grace Stamporama exists. This thread is the first discussion in which I have posted a public contribution, and is a subject which has now generated well over 50 contributions in a fraction over 2 days. Does that make me a moaner?
I suspect this will be one of SoR's busiest threads ever. Brechinite is entitled to his opinion, but he should be more circumspect. Has anyone else noticed that in every post he makes the word power appears. Could it be that the power may have gone to his head?I
The election campaign is underway in the UK. Watch this space!!!!!!
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"enforcing selectively the rule for not listing more than 3 times"
THERE IS NO SUCH RULE!
@Gudgie - John, I owe you an apology. I have the copy of the private message that was supposed to be sent to you back on May 8 regarding the problem with your approval book. Why you did not receive it, I do not have a clue. The system shows it was not sent.
@Greg You are correct. Items offered for sale here cannot be offered for sale anywhere else.
I do have to say that we are not going to start looking at every web site that has stamps for sale to see if there is a violation of the rule. We will do that, if you all are willing to pay membership dues and buying and selling fees as well as giving us a nice salary to do all this work. That is not to say that selling the same items in multiple venues has not been discovered or reported. When it is discovered or reported, the matter is investigated, and the seller contacted. For those sellers who had a non-shipment complaint reported, and it was found that they had sold the same item elsewhere (usually at a higher price), those sellers were removed from Stamporama for violating the contract that they had with the buyers here.
I don't see how we have "abusers" of the sales platforms based on what has been stated in this thread. Has any seller violated any of the rules? I have not received any reports of this. There are no restrictions to how many items a person may list in the auctions, or how many times an item may be listed. There are no restrictions as to how a seller prices the items for sale. No one has alleged any fraudulent activity by any seller, so where is the abuse/violation of the rules?
People are calling for enforcement of the rules, but are stating rules supposedly being violated that simply do not exist. when we had a tight reign with stricter rules, people complained that we were too strict, and we were crucified for it. You can't have it both ways, folks. I suggest that reading the rules might be a good thing for people to do.
Why not put energy to better use? Write philatelic articles about aspects of the hobby that interest you that can be published on this site. Create articles and exhibits to share with fellow SOR members. Avoid sellers that you prefer not to buy from. Work on your stamp collection, and discuss what you are doing on the Discussion Boards. Stamp collecting is a hobby. A hobby is supposed to be relaxing.
Finally, do we really have to go through this same discussion every few months?
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Not funny how a discussion topic can expand well beyond its original purpose.
"I see as of late a flood of material (just a few sellers) that, to me, is over priced. And it does not sell, but reappears on auctions regularly. Do some of you feel the same way, and should a stamp club selling platform be managed differently than a commercial site? I know Ian is going to object to my tinkering with "free market""
The answer to this question is YES some members feel the same.
Ian, our absolute free market proponent, as always proposes doing nothing. We have had rule changes here before, and it is an on-going process that have improved everything over time as far as I can tell. If this topic returns to the discussion board again and again, as you pointed out, maybe there is something there.
Also Ian, (and sorry to all others here about the personal comment next), please, please do not be personally insulting, in British or American English, the words you use are insulting. Some may not be as thick skinned as I am. And don't tell me what to post and how to write my comments. If you don't like them, don't read them, or just disagree.
Michael, we did have a rule about limiting the number of reposts on auctions, as pointed by David T, which I guess we no longer have, but that is not what I was discussing. It is the flood of material that does not sell and that seems to clutter the Auction platform, and IF we should do something about it. It does bother me, but I was unsure if others felt the same.
Roy, thanks for your analysis and if there are simple (software) ways to improve the Auction experience, (which is being impacted), I am all for trying.
BenFranklin,
"I'd suggest just dealing with the extreme abusers. I don't see a need to change the system."
And Michael
"Why not put energy to better use? Write philatelic articles about aspects of the hobby that interest you that can be published on this site. Create articles and exhibits to share with fellow SOR members. "
As you know, I have done ALL of the above, and quite frankly it has elicited very few comments, and seemed a waste of time and energy here...enough so that I have put other such endeavors elsewhere. This however seems more interesting to folks, and is also what a discussion board is for.
rrr....
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"NEITHER deliberately overcharged because Seller A used a catalogue from 2010 and Seller B used a catalogue from 2019!!!!"
Not the answer I expected but also true. Something is only worth what some other person is willing to pay. I have had penny auctions sell for more than catalog value. Not often but it happens. I have also had regular auctions sell for almost catalog value. I currently have an auction elsewhere of a poster stamp of a submarine (USS Argonaut) that is in a bidding war and sits at $46. This for something that is not even a philatelic stamp. There is no real right price for a stamp. If a person wants to pay the price they will, if not they won't.
Greg
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Micheal posted these wise words
"Finally, do we really have to go through this same discussion every few months?"
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"Has anyone else noticed that in every post he makes the word power appears. Could it be that the power may have gone to his head?"
For those that do not know the line:-
"By the power vested in me, I hereby commandeer this vehicle and all those within, and that means you smart ass....Sheriff J.W. Pepper"
is from my favourite film "Live and Let Die". It reminds me of two fabulous weekends I spent in Birmingham and two members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police I knew in Alberta.
Since it has been taken entirely the wrong way I have now changed it. (See Below)
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"I have a problem with limits.
Namely it is obvious that someone could put up 100 lots at 10 cents sell 99 and his sales would be 99%. (Total Sales $9.99).
Someone could put up 100 lots at an average of $2 sell 15 out of the 100 and his unit sales would be 15%. (Total Sales $30)."
Agreed. A seller needs to have enough items for sale as to make for a reasonable sale for both parties.
As a buyer, when I find an auction item, before I bid I do two things. First I look at the postage and handling charge. Second I browse through the sellers other auctions to find other items I'd be interested in. I like to make my purchases worthwhile for both parties. After all, I'm paying a postage cost that may be too much for a single cheap item. And the seller is paying Paypal fees. I'd hate to do that to someone for a $2 purchase.
I have been an occasional seller. My last experience was in September. I posted 140 auctions for US first day covers. My sell through rate was 17% which only amounted to $15.25. Still, my largest sale to an individual was $6.85. So you do need to have a bunch of auctions running so that people have enough selection to find enough to purchase at once.
On the other end of the spectrum, I remember finding a 25 cent item I wanted, seeing a $2 postage charge. I searched the seller's auctions and found they didn't have $2 total worth of auctions for sale! Not worth anyone's time or effort.
Note that it was a lot of work to photo and post 140 auctions. Not worthwhile at all if you were doing this for financial gain. I was doing it for fun, and to get some of the old covers I've had for 40 years out and into collections. And the interactions were cordial and fun.
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I have thought long and hard whether I should add to this thread.
rrraphy and Others:- I agree with you.
It is annoying having to scroll through the same stamps night after night, but if you use the search functions available it is easily overcome (it only takes a couple of seconds).
But this is where we differ.
To any problem there are solutions, there are also consequences from each solution.
Whenever I see someone seeking an "improvement". I analyze it, work out the solutions, and work out the consequences.
Through doing that I knew how this thread would develop so I had to work out a stratagem to avoid the consequences.
I started with pointing out the lottery of selling here (and other sites). Suggested that people use the search functions available and how limits would reduce choice and we are ALL allowed to work within the rules.
There is no existing rule that forbids what is being done.
I threw in the joke about rrraphy "lobbing in a grenade".
I then showed how "overpricing" may not be deliberate.
Then the Limits came up (I knew at the very start of this thread they would, see my very first post). The consequence of limits is that it would make some members "More Equal than Others". To me the consequences of the introduction of such limits are morally unjustifiable especially as the "abusers" (not my word) were working within the rules. Therefore it could not be allowed to happen and I would and will use any stratagem to prevent any member becoming "More Equal than Others"or "Less Equal than Others"
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Hello Ian: I don't mind your "grenades" but they can hit bystanders (mine too)
Choice of words can also be consequential!
The main point of my post, apart from trying to relieve the annoyance from listings that come under my definition of "rule abuse" and "overpricing", is very simple, and I have stated it before (edited):
""I think both Auctions and Approvals are gems here and work well....(but) as a Club, we owe it to .............. protect the inexperienced ones (members) as we nurture their collecting skills, and this is different than a commercial site where the free market (and abuses) run rampant.""
So, that is ALL I was asking.
Is there a problem? Should we do something? IF and HOW ?
But whereas I don't care how ebay runs Auctions in a free for all market full of abuse, deceit and rule-bending, I do here, and I think it is our role.
We tackle defective stamps, but not pricing, and alas, the Auction relisting rule has fallen by the wayside. It is up to management (if and how).
Ok, point raised, objections and support discussed (heated discussion indicates passion), individual solutions and suggestions offered, the discussion board served its purpose, let us put it to rest, and throw it back to management.
rrr...
PS: In our SF stamp Club Auctions, we admonish and don't allow members to sell items that are defective (and are not described as such), to protect members who would not know otherwise, ( items cannot be checked easily due to format and time constraint). We do it here too.
Pricing is openly discussed, with SCV references, to protect beginners and establish a fair system. Also, items cannot be re-listed more than twice.
Seems to me that Stamporama as a Club has a similar responsibility.
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Pricing and "overpricing" are not easily defined as it is a personal viewpoint
The only fair way to avoid different prices is to stipulate the catalogue to be used and the % of catalogue value you can use.
This cannot be done on stamporama in its current form. Why?
Seller A listed his Set of Albania stamps on the first of the month At $10, to come off on the 8th of the month. On the 9th of the month he relists it using the Unsold/Relist button the price will be $10 - 20% = $8. (Some of us still work to this rule)
Seller B lists the same set on the 10th of the month and prices it at $10 to come off on the 17th of the month.
BINGO! You now have 2 identical sets of stamps up for auction at two different prices.
You see CONSEQUENCES.
Parts of the stamporama system I utterly DETEST. I know the solutions to these problems BUT I also know the consequences of implementing these solutions and which groups they would affect (either the members or the volunteers), but I would not dream of putting them forward for change.
As none of the things I detest are life threatening to me... I can live with them.
In conclusion
Don't just read the rules..... Absorb them, get to know the system, get it working for you........ OK you may have to adapt your own way of working but its the only system we have, thanks to the kindness of Roy and the Volunteers.
Change can be good.....Only it has to be the right change for the right reasons, within the rules and does not discriminate against any member.
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"... Only it has to be the right change for the right reasons, within the rules ..."
PMFJI: The rules are precisely what folks are proposing to change. That's okay.
That only a small number of people might be directly affected does not, in and of itself, prove that a change is wrong; there might only be a small number of people whose behavior needs trimming.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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If only a few people are causing this issue to be discussed again (and again!) then I agree with Ikey, “only a few people’s behavior needs to be trimmed.”
Just in case they are unaware, how about politely asking these folks to read this thread? That would not involve any rule changes and would eliminate the possibility that they are ignorant of the feelings of many of the members. That might be all it takes.
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If a person is outwith the rules then fine sanction them. If they are working within the rules then they should not be sanctioned.
Rule changes should not be detrimental to the few and forced by the many.
Rule changes should be analysed, possible consequences, both short term and long term should be considered only then should a decision to change or implement a rule take place.
Lets say a rule change takes place, 8 members are never heard from again because of it.
Well we changed one rule, lets change another, and this time 10 members vanish into the ether etc etc etc.
The main problem that this site has is its lack of members and it always will suffer from that problem.
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Not sure about overcharging but I think I often overpay, good job the wife doesn't see the paypal invoices.
But this is because I see the stamp that fills the gap and life is too short to wait for it to possibly come cheaper.
What I do find irritating are the sellers still putting up damaged stamps without noting such damage, maybe they cannot see the creases, tears, damaged perfs and nor can I until I increase the image size on my laptop.
As an example there are currently a few GB auction items from the same seller where in one offer there are 5 stamps, 3 with perf damage, 1 creased.
Second offer crease, tear, perf damage(4).
Third offer damaged corner and top perf damage.
OK I'm looking for this but maybe some folks don't, our brains all tend to fill in the gaps which is how we are easily fooled by fakes.
Hopefully the fact that there have been views, but no bids, will cause the seller to be more discerning in future.
Ah well, money comes, money goes and I can't take it with me when I get composted.
No offence intended to anyone.
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I am curious - those that say that the auctions are overpriced, do you buy from approval books? How do you know if the approval books are overpriced? I just took France as a random category and checked books from 9 sellers. None had Scott numbers. Do all these people have sets of catalogs and go through approval books to check Scott percentage?
Also the ebay critics - have you ever bought anything that you were not satisfied with and NOT gotten a refund? I had to refund a buyer the other day because a poem he THOUGHT was in a book was not. Not that he asked ahead of time mind you. Certainly there are faults with ebay but not providing an immediate refund is not one of them. I buy on ebay with 100% confidence in the sellers I deal with.
Greg
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06:09:49pm
Let's keep it simple, some of this is too complicated for me. I just saw a US stamp on SOR I didn't have so I looked it up in my 2016 US specialized to check the price. The most I like to pay, unless it is a very special copy, is about half of that value. This stamp was full CV, I passed, 'nuff said. I think that stamp, even though I'd love to pick it up, is over the price I'll usually pay. It would complete a page, so I was tempted, but there are some sellers (not many) who are way too close to CV and sometimes over it for almost every stamp they list. That to me is what this string should really be about. You can post your material for whatever you want but a few of you are too high for me. I don't care how many times you list it and many other things being discussed. All I care about is the price and I suppose, since I'm from Canada, the shipping comes into it as well. I have picked up some amazing stuff from some of you and will continue to do so!! Thanks!!
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Very well said Harvey. You put into words what I have been trying to get over since this thread began. I don't look too closely at the price of a stamp if we are talking a few cents. If it fills a gap, and it's less than the face value of the stamp, then I won't look up a catalogue or consult ebay, or hipstamp, or colnect, or any other. If I want it and can afford it, I will buy it.
The issue in this thread is some, well maybe we should actually say, one member sells items way over face value. For example, a sheet with a value of 3 dollars is currently up, with a minimum bid value of 15.75. The member currently has around 300 items up for sale all above face value. Not one of them has a bid, and, when the time runs out and they don't sell, they, or more like them, will immediately be relisted here for sale again at the same price. it is that practice which I find irritating. In my local stamp shop, mint stamps are routinely priced below 50% of face value.
And to sheepshanks, I wondered whether your comments applied to my current offerings, so I had a look. I can see you were talking about my lots, While I may not have your experience of checking stamps, I would say the stamps were scanned at very high resolution and great images shows all stamps accurately, and the lots are way below any catalogue price. While your comments are fair, you know I am just beginning to collect stamps. A word in my ear would have been nice. I will make mistakes, but a wise man once said "The man who never made a mistake, never made anything". I appreciate the info, and your comment will teach me lessons I won't forget.
And yes, I have received stamps from others on this site which may have been slightly less than perfect. But slight imperfection doesn't worry me. My wife of 40 years has been trying to smooth out my rough edges all that time. Perhaps it's rubbing off on me.
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Gudgie
Why not send a message to the person and tell them how you and others feel about their auction listings.
Everyone talks about it but does anyone message the offender(s)?
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Just to be clear. The people being discussed are not "offenders". They are not violating any rules. If they were, the Auctioneers would have interceded. Just because you do not like how someone is conducting business, does not mean that the seller is wrong.
If you want to contact a seller to discuss their business practices, remember to keep it civil. Also, if the seller states that they do not have to make any changes, because they are not breaking any rules, well, that is true, even if it isn't the best customer service that they can provide.
My opinion regarding sales, and I sell regularly at flea markets and hobby shows as well as other online sites, is that I sell things to sell. I do not bring/post things to sell just to put them on display, have little to no sales and take everything back home with me. However, at every venue where I sell, I see others who are "very proud" of what they have, and they simply occupy space (physical or electronic) and sell very little. Still, how they price is up to them. People who sell at too high a price just give everyone else an opportunity to sell more. Still, however, these people do sell something now and then.
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From OUR Auction Rules:
Unacceptable Listing Practices:
"
E1. The following listing practices are considered unacceptable, and may result in summary closure of an auction lot:
h. Items are not priced competitively compared to pricing of similar material for sale by others
i. Shipping and/or handling fees are excessive"
As a side comment because I don't know how to gage competitively priced here, given the size of our Club, but at stamp shows, almost all common US Sheets sell at face or even at a discount of face value. There are exceptions for some sheets of course, but modern (post WW2) sheets pretty much sell as I described.
I checked on Hipstamp and ebay. Most US sheets listed in Auctions start at a discount off face value, and for fixed price listings, typically they list within a +/-10% of the face value. (shipping always extra and unregulated on ebay)
And for "Gudgie" re :
"The issue in this thread is some, well maybe we should actually say, one member sells items way over face value. For example, a sheet with a value of 3 dollars is currently up, with a minimum bid value of 15.75. The member currently has around 300 items up for sale all above face value. Not one of them has a bid, and, when the time runs out and they don't sell, they, or more like them, will immediately be relisted here for sale again at the same price. it is that practice which I find irritating. In my local stamp shop, mint stamps are routinely priced below 50% of face value.
"
My very same feelings, but I am not even shopping for these US sheets, I just waste time as they clutter the Auction platform, and I am scanning for material I want.
rrr...
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"h. Items are not priced competitively compared to pricing of similar material for sale by others
i. Shipping and/or handling fees are excessive""
Finally somebody has read the rules.
The "offender" is still within the rules.
The important phrase within the rule is:-
compared to pricing of similar material for sale by others
Who else is selling U.S. Sheets or part sheets on this site? No One
Also if no one else has a particular stamp listed at a lower price technically the "offender" is not breaking the rule.
As I've said previously if you do not want to view a sellers items
use the various search facilities available.
Live with it!!
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Prices are based on whatever catalogue you use.
If seller A lists a stamp priced against Gibbons, seller B prices against Scott, and seller C prices against Michel, all of which will give different CV's, whose listing will be deemed to be not competitively priced? The high price or the low price?
Gudgie
" In my local stamp shop, mint stamps are routinely priced below 50% of face value"
Your local dealer is looking at going bust I think!
Gudgie
"you know I am just beginning to collect stamps"
If that's the case, with respect, trying to teach experienced sellers how to suck eggs is a bit rich.
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Seller pricing that is at or below catalog value for stamps in the condition as stated in the catalog for the catalog value is not considered "excessive".
Excessive shipping and handling fees is not, I believe, part of this discussion as that is easy to determine, i.e.: item price $0.01, shipping $25.00.
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I have been a member here since April 2015.
I have sold many, many, many, many stamps here during that time both on the Auction and Approval systems.
I am human so I can and do make mistakes.
How many members during that time have contacted me to say "Ian, you do realise that item XXXXX is "under priced"!!
I'll tell you.......NOT ONE!!!!!!
And I know that some items have been under priced!!!
So save me from the Hypocrisy.
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My local stamp shop appears to have been trading well for a considerable time, and most mint stamps on SoR are sold way under 50% of face value.
I would never ever attempt to tell experienced collectors now to collect stamps. My wife, the real collector in this house, won't even allow me to handle mint stamps, I am so clumsy. That is not, and never has been the issue here, despite crude efforts to deflect this thread.
Without checking back, I am certain at no time in this discussion, have I, or any supporting my point of view, called those who overcharge, "offenders". I for one accept they are breaking no rules.
I have communicated privately with the person involved and have entered discussion with him. Naturally, he disagreed with my views, but he did so in a pleasant, unargumentative, non-confrontational way. I respect his, and other people's views and will fight for their right to differ.
Finally, I put up 4 lots over the weekend. Sadly, it was brought to everyone's attention that 2 stamps were damaged, and perfs on others may have been less than perfect. I was unable to remove them last night, but, after checking how to do so, they have now been removed. The scans clearly showed the condition of the stamps. Those stamps will not be offered again. I apologise if this caused a problem to anyone. If anyone has received from me, any item which is not as described please contact me immediately.
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10:54:58am
We all know the person who "sells all the sheets". I don't collect, or want, sheets so I just skim through them. But I have bought other things from this seller and have been very happy with the material I bought. His prices are a bit higher than most but sometimes, if he has an item I have been searching for, I part with my money. His service is excellent, the quality of the material is top notch and he always communicates with me, the buyer. Actually the US stamp I mentioned earlier that was at CV was from another seller. The price was not exorbitant considering the beautiful condition of the stamp, just a bit higher than I wanted to pay. The only point I am concerned about is price and condition. If we are happy we buy, if we are unhappy we don't! Again, to quote Stan Lee, 'nuff said!
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Gudgie, I deliberately refrained from mentioning the seller by name as others are also not describing defects. The rule from the Auction sellers notes reads as follows.
"C8a. Reliance on images alone to show defects is not permitted. All lots of single stamps and sets of stamps must include, at a minimum, descriptions of all defects. This includes repairs, thins, creases, pulled or torn perforations, scuffs, tears, stains, extraneous writing or markings in ink or marker (other than owner/authentication marks), etc. For large stamp mixtures and collections it is permissible to describe only the overall condition of the lot."
I also appreciate that stamps I have purchased from you have not had defects and if I see any more items that I need of yours I will not hesitate to bid.
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Right now the United States category has 699 items listed. 473 of those are from the one seller in question. That leaves only 226 items from all other sellers combined.
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seeing nobody has posted since my last post, I now see that in the USA category, there are 941 items listed, 641 by the individual mentioned in my last post, and only 300 from all other sellers.
Since this thread peaked my interest, I decided to give auctions another try. On 11-14 I posted up 70 items. I tried to vary what I posted, so there's a mixture of plate blocks from different eras posted for sale at an average of a nickel over face each. There are lots of old mint commemorates and blocks at about face value. And a selection of older USA mint and used at what I felt were reasonable prices. I tried to match what others were posting.
As many said, the activity happens on the first day. I received four 25 cent bids on that day. And since then... crickets! My stuff is just sitting. Very few have even received a view.
My terms are very friendly, 55 cents for USA and $1.10 for international, which are the cost of a one ounce letter.
So am I doing something wrong? Or are there no buyers / viewers?
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My observations as a seller - While I have no proof, starting auctions over 20% CV are rarely successful. Most want to pay less than that. High catalog items don't sell well at auction. US rarely sells in either my stores or at auction. I have had some minor success of late with US, which surprised me. They were quite high in CV but were priced at 15-20% CV. Items under 50 cents as an opening bid will sell, but in US stamps, there are not a lot of stamps that fall into that category that people still need for their collections except for revenues. Others may have different opinions than I do, but thats how I see it looking at my sales
Greg
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02:47:16pm
I'll come back in with a comment. I bought several of the US stamps Greg is talking about and thought I should share my logic. I am at the stage with my 4 areas (Poland, Russia, US and Canada) where the majority of the stamps I'm looking for are more pricey. I try to stay under 30 - 40% CV, if possible, but some of these stamps are hard to find. Also, if the stamps have good centering or are MNH they should bring a higher value. So I check the quality of the stamp being offered which is why a clear photo is important to me. For a beautiful example of a stamp I really want, I might pay CV or more. I really don't want album fillers!!! Most of you are very precise about the stamps you offer and I have not been burned yet, but if the photo is not good I DON'T BID. I have picked up some great material from Greg and others out there - I really shouldn't name names. There are a couple of you who consistently charge high prices, but if the material is good I still buy. Maybe I shouldn't, but I judge by the quality and how hard some stamps are to find. I occasionally buy from a few specific dealers on E-Bay I have had good luck with and ignore stamps where it seems to good to be true. To sum up - I will spend more for good quality stamps. If I pass them by I may never see them again. Don't judge only by the price!!
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Joe you indeed have bought some nice stamps from me, but to be honest, you are one of the exceptions to the rule. I once offered some revenue issues that to the best of my knowledge there are less than a dozen known copies, and he told me that he would not pay over 10% catalog value, and I believe the catalog value is understated. I think more often than not, at least on this site, 20-25% is the going rate for auctions unless the buyer has no catalog. Some of the stuff I have seen with bids at half catalog amaze me. I think for the general collector, which you are not, price is the determining factor. I now I must get back to baking cookies for our churches holiday fair on Saturday......
Greg
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03:35:59pm
Greg, the next time I buy from you I expect you to toss in a few cookies - wrapped in plastic of course!
A little story: I bought a beautiful "used" copy of NS#4 for close to catalog value a few years ago. It was beautifully centered with nice margins - a real joy! It turned out to be a mint copy, no gum to speak of unfortunately, but worth at least twice the used value, with more gum and no hinge mark it would be even more. Sometimes if we pay a little more we get a little more!
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Joe, back in the day I ran a rather successful cookie business around Christmas. I was very close about 10 years or so ago, to becoming partners so to speak with a guy that owned a bakery in town. Sadly they did construction that closed down one of the main avenues into town, and the business dried up and closed in October. Had he made it through October and November, I probably would have worked along side him making cookies. I was a regular there and once he had me sample a chocolate chip cookie that his wife made. He asked me what i thought and I said ok, but mine were better. He didn't believe me. I brought in a sample and his eyes lit up. He said they would literally fly off the shelves - and they would have. I knew a guy who's Dad owned a bakery and he loved the cookies but advised me not to open a bakery. Its a long and hard day. I know from those many years ago that it is. I would get home from work at 6, eat and bake until 12 for most of December.This was back when we were in NYC in the early 1990's. Had more energy then - I think.
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Greg, I believe your observations since you are one of the more prominent sellers on the boards. I can say you are probably right about USA, a while back I posted an approval book of USA commemoratives. Used copies, 3 of each commemorative from the 1940s and 1950s. If it was successful I would have continued with the 1960s and 1970s. I thought there would be people with holes in their collections who would be able to fill them for a few cents each. I had no sales!
It does defy certain logic. There are new people joining SOR every day. I just counted 54 new members for the past 60 days, almost one a day! Some introduce themselves on the board as brand new or returning collectors. I was hoping that some of them would need the more common items to build their new collections.
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04:36:28pm
I joined in April of this year and have managed to fill many holes in my collection both old and new. I really don't see why the sellers here should have to give their stamps away. There is no reason why someone shouldn't be willing to pay at least 20% CV. I see stuff on other sites selling for much more than that. I've seen some very odd stuff on SOR. There are some of the sellers who try to auction an item for a certain price as a bid and have a BIN price of 1 cent more and the person bids rather than pay the extra cent to be sure of the item. I'm not saying that some of the buyers here are cheap skates, but that's insane. I think, for a good item, anyone should be willing to pay at least 20% CV, if not then start checking out yard sales!! My humble opinion, for the little bit it's worth.
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Harvey, I agree! When I started doing approval books, I'd salt the books with a few good items at a bargain to get people to go through them. I figured that once they were in the book, they'd buy a few additional items to get the order up to a reasonable level. Nope! Immediately upon placing the books, people would go through and just grab the good items! Total order less than a dollar.
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05:31:00pm
There are times when any of us go into a book and only find one thing we want - I don't cherry pick but there might only be one stamp we need. There was a Cuba book put on a little while ago and I found 54 items and then there was a book from Poland a little while ago that I only needed one item from. The books like the Cuba one are actually very stressful because you're trying to buy everything you want before someone else finds the book. I really wish that would happen more often, but it is tiring - you're there with your album or want list trying to find everything. The times when you only find a couple things are quite stressful as well because you keep hoping the next page will be better for you. The approval books, to me, are more fun than the auctions. But I still think you deserve more than pennies for your stuff.
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"But I still think you deserve more than pennies for your stuff."
Agreed. I collect New Jersey postmarks on full cover. I buy a lot of them on eBay. I'll pay $5 for a clean cover with clear cancel of any DPO I don't already have. I figure that someone found the cover for me, photographed and described it, posted the auction and is going to mail it to me. That service is certainly worth $5. I buy some covers for a lot less too.
A person I know looked at my NJ cover albums and sneered that there wasn't a cover worth a dollar there. He said I could find them in 10 cent boxes at shows. Yea, but I'd have to do all that searching!
And I've even reasoned out that I'll buy nice covers from current post offices. When I go on my postal runs, I average 10 covers per day, and run off a tank of gas. Figure 55 cents postage on each cover, and $3 worth of gas. Those covers cost me $3.55 each!
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I don't think I have bought too many "overpriced" items on SOR but then I don't really care what the price is if I want the item. I on occasion check catalogue value,but don't have a percentage limit when making a purchase on SOR. I have purchased/won 2046 lots since joining in November 2012 and in the last 120 days I have purchased 11 lots at $113.76, three at $20 and over one at $10 and over and three at $5 and over and four under $5, I wanted them so I bought them.
I have also purchased many items for under a buck and paid postage that equals the cost of the item or more and it does not bother me a bit.
As far as members selling gaziilions of "overpriced" stamps, if they are of no interest to me,the filter works well and I just move along nothing to see here.....
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I simply don't understand this whole thread. There is no such thing as overcharging short of a monopoly. If you don't like the price ~ move on. If you don't want to scroll through some particular seller - learn to use the filter. We ought to make a reality channel of the fighting philatelists ~ not sure how it would stand up against WAGtha christie, Prince Andrew or Rich Wives of Atlanta, but you could try to stick it to 'em.
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"... I simply don't understand this whole thread ..."
You and me both, sister.
Perhaps some buyers are thinking that the world owes them a bargain, especially if they are going to go thru all that work of looking for one.
"... I figure that someone found the cover for me, photographed and described it, posted the auction and is going to mail it to me ..."
You and me both, brother.
I routinely pay more for quarter-box items when I see them on SOR because, well, I didn't have to drag my self to some quarter box, paw my way through it, agonize over the stuff that might/not be worth a whole quarter ...
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Just recently I have been buying covers from the Netherlands Indies to add to my stamp collection .I would love to know how sellers price their covers I have purchased several nice covers and postcards at a few dollars each I see covers with the same stamps with sellers asking over $100 and more.
There are hundreds of covers on Hipstamps and Delcampe they can't be worth what is being asked for them?
Brian
PS haven't seen any on SOR though!!!!!
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The prices on approvals are so cheap here that sometimes i cant be bothered to click an item. Its easier to hit buy the page and move on ... I mean 1 to 10 cents a stamp ... would any of you actually work for those wages ... (i'll qualify that by saying north americans and europeans, because perhaps in some misbegotten places it might be worth it ) And lastly if the issue is one of supporting the cost of the site vs some person posting poorly price crap ~ ban or limit the individual ~ end of soap opera...
`
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I would consider doing the same if not for all the duplicates. I have no real system yet on want/ trade but that is a goal. I had stopped inventorying my spares but maybe need to restart.
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"I would love to know how sellers price their covers"
Brian, exactly why I don't sell covers here. I have no idea what to charge, and while there probably are specialized books for every county the cost would be enormous. As you said, there are people selling covers on ebay and Hip and I suspect they have no idea either. I have tried a couple of Japan and Monaco FDC at auction for 50 cents and got no takers or even looks, so my guess there is no interest. A shame as I have hundreds of covers. It's not even worth the time putting them into a book. Did that once as well a couple of years back and they did not sell that way either. Tried some older US FDC's at auction too. Nada.
Greg
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I really dont see how some sellers charging higher prices is bad for anyone. As long as people can sort by price this will actually benefit sellers who price their items more competitively. Oy vey. Let the market decide.
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"would any of you actually work for those wages"
Jings!....Crivvens!....Help Ma Boab!
Some of us have to. Just to be able to put gas in the Ferrari!....
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Jeremy will take care of you fat cats
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nlroberts1961:- Do you mean Jeremy Corbyn?
...................OR
Jeremy, The Sugar Puff Bear?
p.s. Probably before your time. Jeremy was before the Honey Monster.
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Why of course Brother Jeremy
I had no idea you lived in Sugar Puff Land But then maybe they are one and the same ...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgVQtGw80LY
Power To The People
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Daang now i'll have to sell 1500 stamps to buy the complete DVD collection 
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Approvals
I read this message about ebay, in a 2012 discussion. Still relevant, but here, at Stamporama?
"Do people over charge on E-Bay?
Is it me or do people over charge on E-Bay by like 2-3X the stamp worth.I've been looking some Souvenir Sheets for my U.S. Collection and I've seen people charge between $10-$20 for a $6 souvenir sheet.Do they think stamp collectors are idiots or something I guess they never heard of a pricing Catalogue?"
I wonder if we are having some of the same problem here? I see as of late a flood of material (just a few sellers) that, to me, is over priced. And it does not sell, but reappears on auctions regularly. Do some of you feel the same way, and should a stamp club selling platform be managed differently than a commercial site? I know Ian is going to object to my tinkering with "free market", and yes, eventually a lack of successful sales may deter the seller, but it is clutter now and it does make the search for what you need more difficult, especially when a large percentage of the auction posts seem to fall under this label. And as of late, I have not had a lot of free time, so I feel a bit frustrated by this flood of material I have to skip repeatedly! A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?
Are we monitoring somehow to Auctions to avoid the relisting of items that don't sell? I know it is not easy!
Any words of wisdom?
rrr...
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Didn't we have a limit on how often you could relist an item and if you relisted you had to reduce the price?
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06:39:46pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Well said. Takes ages to scroll through those same items from the same people, night after night after night. There's more than one person doing it too. Seems to me it's like someone saying "Look at my collection. You can look but you cannot afford it". Well even if I could afford it, I would never buy from it. Put simply, it's overpriced. secondly, I want to buy from sellers who also have a record of buying items, not just selling items. It shows me that they collect stamps, rather than just dispose of stamps.
Some of them don't even accept PayPal, which makes paying extremely difficult. I think a limit should apply to sellers constantly relisting the same item(s) without any significant reduction in the minimum bidding price.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Nov 2019
06:41:00pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I agree with you, there are a couple (no more than that) who are a fair bit overpriced. I still occasionally pick up the odd stamp from them if it's something I really want. I know I shouldn't do it, especially since most sellers stick to very reasonable prices. Some dealers sell at less than 10% CV where some others are well over 50% on a regular basis. I don't really want to mention names, but I've picked up some great stuff on SoR and there are even a few E-Bay dealers I buy from regularly who are also very fair. Also remember some people are selling on several online sources at the same time at fair prices on all sites. But there are a couple of dealers who are very optimistic and maybe we should just ignore their stuff, but again, they do have the right to try, just as we have to right to ignore them!!
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06:55:07pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
There is an option to exclude particular sellers from the listing though I find its a bit cumbersome to use. I sympathize with anyone who would be assigned the task of deciding what constitutes a fair price.
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07:53:05pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
rrraphy:- I will not disappoint you by saying let the market decide!!
HOWEVER
Why are the buyers not educating themselves on how to use the various search functions available on Stamporama???
I have said the following in the past so I shall repeat it.
When a Seller lists an item here it depends on several factors whether the item sells or not:-
a) What the item is.
b) What price it is.
c) What time of day it is listed.
d) What day of the week it is listed.
e) Who is actually watching when the item is listed.
f) Who is actually watching for the 24 hours it is classified as "All New Items"
g) What time of day the item ends.
h) What day of the week the item ends.
i) Who is actually watching when the item ends.
j) Who is actually watching for the 24 hours the item is classified as "Closing in 24 Hours"
k) Who actually finds that item during the whole period it is listed.
Experienced sellers know beyond reasonable doubt that all these variable factors are in play for EVERY item that is listed. In other words it is a lottery for the seller whether he sells an item or not.
"A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?"
Limit the numbers and you reduce the choice for members. Statistics prove that the total number of items listed on the Auctions has never exceeded 6000 (Which is equal to 50-60 Approval Books).
The system we currently have works reasonably well, it is simple to use both from the sellers point of view and the buyers. You can buy stamps from 5 Cents to Tens of Dollars.
You will NEVER please all the members all of the time.
Humans can be complex, illogical, self centred, self important, I know better than all, do it my way and do it NOW.
OR
Tolerant, respectful, knowledgeable, helpful, logical, unselfish, willing to see the other persons point of view.
As I said complex!!
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07:59:20pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"Didn't we have a limit on how often you could relist an item and if you relisted you had to reduce the price?"
Philatelia:- The price reduction comes into play if the Seller relists an item using the Unsold/Relist button
BUT
I believe that a Seller can get round this by using the Bulk Uploader.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
'
One perfectly valid selling strategy is to post a high price, and wait for the guy who'll pay it ... whether out of ignorance, carelessness, desperation, convenience, or whimsy.
Another perfectly valid selling strategy is to decide that a nickel today is better than a dime tamara, and price the stuff to move.
Part of the problem for dealers is that collectors are not a homogeneous lot, even if they are mostly old white men. From filling holes to filling albums to filling stock books, needs vary ... as do means ... as do moods ...
I suspect many store/table dealers run a bit of a Dutch auction; if they get tired of seeing collectors look at something and hand it back, they lower the price.
I suspect that eCommerce dealers do not have the same tactile experience and, therefor, are more likely to sit firm & wait for Mr Right.
In any event, I do not think that we should try to legislate one sort of behavior over another ... for more reasons than I've got stamps.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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01:00:54am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?"
No. Will never happen.
"Didn't we have a limit on how often you could relist an item"
Yes, but we ran into serious programming problems, and so the restriction was removed.
"if you relisted you had to reduce the price? "
See Ian's comment.
"should a stamp club selling platform be managed differently than a commercial site?"
Yes. On Stamporama it is managed differently, and always has been.
"I see as of late a flood of material (just a few sellers) that, to me, is over priced."
As you said, to you it seems to be over-priced. Pricing is relative to each prospective buyer. A posted price may be too high, too low, or just right. It is for the buyer to decide what it is. If you don't like the price, either don't buy it, or contact the seller to see if you can negotiate a better price that you both can agree on, providing that there is no bid on the lot. Still, negotiations need to be reasonable. To try to negotiate a buy price of 50 cents for a $10.00 stamp is usually not realistic or fair to the seller.
We will not institute any policies that require sellers to sell at a certain price or discount. However, if you see fraudulent activity with serious over-pricing of a misrepresented common stamp (often seen on Ebay), we need to know about this right away so we can investigate. Fortunately this happens very rarely here. (Also, see Ian's comments.)
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04:25:43am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
The one thing about the auctions I do not understand is the number of stamps listed selling at 5 cents or thereabouts.
The time the seller takes to sort, catalogue, scan and then list is considerable in time costs and even electricity used. It is much more efficient to make up an Approval book.
I say I do not understand the reasoning but if it works for the seller and the seller enjoys what they are doing then that's OK. We are all allowed to work within the rules.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
An important point to remember is that any rule that cannot be automated by the forum software must be policed by a member. This pits member against member which can be extremely unpleasant for the person acting as the enforcer.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I seldom bother looking through the new listings in the auctions. I know some sellers do not use the correct categories, but I look in the categories that I'm interested in, and the new items are always on top. I'm sure I bypass some things I may have wanted, but if it's not in the proper category, I'm not going to see it or buy it. -This happens with covers more than one would think.
Approval books on the other hand, are a step closer to my philatelic heaven. To be the first one going through a book on topic I seek, is grand!
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
As a person who has taken advantage of the auction function here on StampoRama over the last couple of months, I find all of the comments above interesting and helpful. I would like to add a wish of my own as well as answer several questions others have posted.
I would like to be able to post at least three pictures for an individual item. Although it would be rare that I would do this, it would be useful where I have an expert committee certificate for the stamp that is being offered for sale. Since I always post a picture of the front and the back of each stamp, the only option I have found to post a picture of the expert committee certificate is to do so in the "Stamp Auction Notes and Notices" comment section. Being able to post three (or preferably four or five) pictures for a single item would also allow me to post individual pictures of the scroll work from each side of early British stamps where a close-up picture of the plate number could be taken or on German stamps were Michel cataloged fly-speck close-ups can be pictured along with a picture of a normal stamp.
I listed a number of Austrian stamps for auction back in March, putting them up for a period of one or two weeks (I don't remember which). I noticed that all activity on each stamp took place very shortly after the auctions were posted or just before they closed with absolutely no activity in between. So when I started listing auctions again a few months ago I limited them for three days. They still seem to sell well, so this apparently is more than enough time to give those willing to purchase from the auctions time to do so.
Once an auction closes without a sale, I do not relist. That stamp then gets listed in my store on another site. Since I only list 25-30 auctions at a maximum each day, my open auction total never exceeds about one hundred stamps.
I have not been purchasing any stamps for the last several years. I have such a hoarding tendency when it comes to stamp purchases that I decided I just needed to stop. I have more than two rooms full of philatelic material lining the walls, with more overflowing into a couple of other areas. What I decided to do was slowly work through all this material at my own pace, listing everything for sale. While it may seem like I am only selling and not actually collecting, that is not actually the case. I realized a while back that I could form an electronic collection. Since I take a high quality picture of each individual stamp (at least I believe my stamp photos are high quality) and I save them by country and catalog number, I could keep these pictures as a record of my collection. I don't delete any pictures in case of returns, etc., so my stamp picture inventory is slowly growing. I have a digital backup of my data files take place automatically by third-party software, so I don't have to worry about theft, fire, or any other sort of damage (and this has saved me from hard-drive crashes). When I find time to do so in the future, I can place the best picture for each individual issue and save them into a separate file as my stamp collection, with only one picture for each stamp issue (for many stamps I have multiple copies).
I do sell a lot of material at a starting price of one cent or Buy-It-Now at three cents. These are for the common stamps that Scott lists at 25 cents. I auction them rather than use the Approval method because I like to show a picture of both front and back of each stamp. For many people this is not important, but for me it always was. When I was still purchasing stamps, I often received material where only the front of the stamp was pictured or where a group of stamps were pictured all clumped together. The poorly centered stamps, those with perforation issues, etc., where usually hidden away behind those that were more visually appealing. And I have received MINT-NEVER-HINGED items where the back of the stamp was heavily toned and once where it looked like the stamp had been dropped on the floor and then the castors on the chair had been rolled over it several times before it had been picked up again. So I list individually using the auction function so that each stamp can be sold individually with a clear picture of both the front and the back of each stamp shown. It is just way I would have prefered to have stamps offered for sale when I was purchasing individual stamps.
This is still my hobby. In my mind, hobbies are interesting activities that are meant to take up free time. My stamp auction hobby here on StampoRama takes up a lot of time each day and the return is minimal, but I am not doing this trying to make a living. For me it is fun and that is all that matters.
As mentioned by others, there are a lot of ways that one can collect. My way might be a bit unique but who other myself who should care?
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11:31:43am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
You could show the front and backs of stamps with an approval book. You could show the front of each stamp on the odd numbered pages, and the back of the stamps on the even numbered pages. For the pages showing the backs of the stamps, just inactivate each item number so that no one can purchase from the page. In the page comments section, notate what you did. For example, on the even numbered pages, you can state, "See the backs of the stamps on the next page", and on the odd numbered page state, "Backs of stamps listed on the previous page", or something like that. Maybe include the page numbers to avoid confusion. You just have to make sure that your book meets the minimum quantity for what you are offering in the book.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"... I do not understand is the number of stamps listed selling at 5 cents or thereabouts ..."
For some sellers, the selling seems to be a social activity.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I understand this is a discussion about Stamporama sellers overpricing. The OP offered a prior post about this sort of thing happening on Ebay.
Has anyone else scratched their head at some of the listings under the 'Supplies' category? Sellers offering Scott Specialty binders with cases at $70 and up? Other items listed at prices well above full retail? Same for mounts. Is this just sort of a convenience thing for some folks who don't want to take time to surf for decent buys?
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02:18:57pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
My part post
""... I do not understand is the number of stamps listed selling at 5 cents or thereabouts ..."
"
Ikeypikey's comment
"For some sellers, the selling seems to be a social activity."
My previous comment
" if it works for the seller and the seller enjoys what they are doing then that's OK. We are all allowed to work within the rules."
Context is everything.
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02:24:09pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Snick1946:-
Price is in the eye of the seller or the buyer.
Micheal was right when he said
"Pricing is relative to each prospective buyer. A posted price may be too high, too low, or just right. It is for the buyer to decide what it is."
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Snick1946 - you need to look at how the listing is set up to sell. As an ebay seller I use different prices for the exact same stamp on Hipstamp, because a) I offer free postage on Ebay and b) I accept offers for everything. If the person selling the binder is offering free postage it is most certainly built into the price. Amazon spoiled people and they check the free postage box on ebay listings, never checking to see if the same thing is available with postage cheaper. I know this because people have bought things from me that surprised me (LP's) where there were cheaper choices out there to be bought. On my books and records I always add 2 pounds of media mail postage to the asking price and accept no offer that is less than half of what I am looking to get as a price. It's all about knowing what appeals to the buyers on the site you are selling on.
Greg
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06 Nov 2019
04:13:57pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"I would like to be able to post at least three pictures for an individual item."
You can include as many pictures in the description field of an item as you want.
Since the auction listing allows the use of HTML, all you have to do is place the images somewhere accessible on the internet (there is lots of cheap (or free) storage space around). Then include the HTML image tag in the description. I can't show an example of an image tag here, because the Discussion Board does not allow HTML, however, here is a guide here: https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_img.asp
Roy
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06 Nov 2019
04:54:12pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"Quote:
"A possible solution: should we limit the number of items one can list on auction at any one time?"
No. Will never happen."
Don't say "never". All it will take is 2 or 3 Bozos using the bulk listing tool to constantly relist unsalable stamps by the thousands, taking advantage of Stamporama's generous policies without regard to the "general good", and you will see how fast the policies change.
For years I have campaigned for a maximum listing ceiling of about 100 items per member, until a seller earns higher listing limits by exceeding minimum "sell-through" rates -- effectively, allowing the market to decide who is a seller that is actually useful to the membership. (Easily achieved with software -- no monitoring required.)
Allowing a member, who does nothing else on this site, to regularly relist 500+ items that exhibit a sell through rate of 2% is sheer nonsense.
In general, most of the membership is very good. We have many member sellers who have very high sell-through rates. Others with low sell-through rates tend to have low numbers of total listings, i.e. the market is telling them "we're not crazy about your stamps" and they aren't going "listing crazy".
We have two member sellers who are responsible for 40,000 auction listings so far in 2019, with only 455 sales between them! That is a 1.14% sell-through rate. The membership market is rejecting their material and they aren't listening.
Ok, you say, assuming 1 week listings, that represents 800 lots of stamps, of which only 8 on average sell per week. Given that the total number of lots is usually around 4,000, that is only 20% of the auction that is "wasted space". You might say "we can tolerate that".
But can we tolerate 10 more users like them who care about nothing but peddling their 98.86% unwanted merchandise on a free site?
Roy
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05:28:39pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Roy, I agree with your position of having a merit system for sellers like you outlined.
In addition I am in favor of not permitting new members instant access to sell/buy until they have been a member for a while.
There are pros and cons to both of these items, and I understand both sides. The Management Team has and does discuss this from time to time. Thus far, the cons have outweighed the pros.
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Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Roy I am in total agreement, except that I think we have been very tolerant of the few sellers who repeatedly list items that don't sell. The rule (there was a rule) about not posting more than 3 times, and to drop prices 20% each time you repost ought to be enforced on the honor system, and failure to respect it should be enough to suspend listing privileges, after fair warnings. We are a club and mutual respect is a rule I consider essential.
rrr...
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10:49:32pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Roy's comments make a lot of sense to me. There are always a few who exceed the bounds of common sense. I have never bought from the auctions generally from a postage vs price issue for a single small item. Nevertheless i do check it out from time to time and there are a couple of names that i immediately consign to the exclude bin. As pointed out as well that is the only place i ever see that name. Its an issue of small amount but i can see that if you were keen about the auctions it could quickly become very irritating.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Looks like you guys are gearing up to run my BIN auctions out of town. A shame as collectors like the fact that they can sometimes wait a few weeks to buy something as it will be there for 8 weeks. The beauty is that they don't have to scan through approval books that don't tell you exactly to the stamp what is in them (a major gripe of mine). I guess I'll have to get another concept ready to go.......
As an aside I do monitor my percentages in regular auctions and BIN auctions. I chose 8 weeks as a max on a BIN auction as if there is no interest after 8 weeks, it is pointless to keep listing it. My BIN sales on a weekly basis are usually in the 20-30% range depending on who is buying. That often outpaces my new approval books the first week. I have considered lowering the prices on the group that is going to be rolled off, but they are already at 20% catalog value, as are all of my auctions. Of course you could raise the starting price to 60% CV and lower it week by week, and that may actually work as how many people can afford a Scott catalog to know? It may also make people think they are getting a bargain when they pick something up for less though it would be more than you were going to sell it for in the first place. Kind of like accepting best offers on Ebay. That may actually be a better idea than the one I originally had should the powers that be trash my BIN listings. Or perhaps setting things with a "real price" and a BIN price where the real price is in the title of the listing and the BIN price is the one that gets reduced. Will make my job of invoicing tougher as I will have to subtract from it but it solves the 20% reduction issue on a week by week basis. Decisions, decisions.
Greg
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04:33:05am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Greg, what makes you think we're going to be changing the Auctions? I would never recommend to the others on the Management Team that we get rid of BINs.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Michael, not getting rid of the BIN's but the not allowing auctions to run more than one week without lowering the price. That's how my Monday night BIN's are set up, with a spreadsheet, I have to remove all the sold items and then add my new ones to the sheet, deleting the unsold after 8 weeks. Certainly I could lower the prices by 20% after raising them on the sheet to 60% rather than 20% which they currently are. If need be I will do that but I am thinking it may just be easier to put the BIN price at 100% SCV and put the 20% price in the title line. Then I can just use a formula each week on the spreadsheet to lower the prices by 20%, and adjust the invoices to the real sale price. A pain, but if its got to be done that way I'll do it
Greg
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04:45:16am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
The price reduction in the auctions only happens when a seller manually relists an unsold auction lot. The Team is not discussing anything related to making changes in the auctions.
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05:27:50am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Jings! Crivvens! Help Ma Boab!
This Topic on the discussion board has had very little movement from July to now.
Then rrraphy throws in a grenade then BINGO!!
Don't you just love it!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE186w91YVU
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Except that Ralph said
"I think we have been very tolerant of the few sellers who repeatedly list items that don't sell. The rule (there was a rule) about not posting more than 3 times, and to drop prices 20% each time you repost ought to be enforced on the honor system, and failure to respect it should be enough to suspend listing privileges, after fair warnings. We are a club and mutual respect is a rule I consider essential."
Sounds to me that he wants that enforced for those that are bulk uploading the same items week after week, manually changing the prices on the spreadsheet
Greg
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05:49:02am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I said much earlier in this thread that selling in the auctions here is a lottery.
What does not sell in May can sell in August.
I listed some items two months ago, they didn't sell, I listed them again yesterday.
SURPRISE!...SURPRISE!
I have bids on some of them this morning.
Selling on here is a lottery.
Why?
There are a small number of members!
That's Life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKQlA1tZbvw
I ain't complaining!!
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Ian you are right about things selling that did not sell before. While I see it in approval books all the time, other than my BIN auctions, my auctions do not get relisted but are instead sent to other sites. It is however all about who is home, who is away, who has money to spend this week, who doesn't, who is online to see the auctions first, etc etc. You can go crazy trying to figure it out.
Greg
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09:38:21am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
As a relatively new member and recent convert to stamp collecting, I endorsed the original thoughts at the top of this thread. Certain members take over both the auction and the approval portals, and their prices are well above what others are offering the same items at. When I made my comments, I never bought of soundcrest, and can say that the people whom I was talking about have not yet joined this conversation. Probably because they do not take part in other activities on SoR.
I am of the opinion that if someone puts over 300 items on, let's just say the US auction site, and leaves them up for months on end with next to no sales, they should take them down and allow others prominence to sell things which actually move.
I owned and managed my own retail business for 30 years. If something was not selling in the window, it was either put in the stockroom, or discounted to get it out the door. It certainly was not kept in the window.
And to Michael who is in favour of restricting new members ability to post items for sale, what purpose will that serve? To my mind, and after checking my facts here, the biggest culprits have been members for over 10 years. New members feel intimidated by the same vendors dominating listings. Perhaps he should consider limiting the number of items a member can list over a period of time, or even ensure that every member is asked to either buy or sell a minimum number of items each month or year.
I can only speak for myself, but I am discouraged from looking through auctions because the same sellers dominate the listings, and I feel that items I want to auction will not be given prominence.
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10:29:25am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"I can only speak for myself, but I am discouraged from looking through auctions because the same sellers dominate the listings, and I feel that items I want to auction will not be given prominence"
Gudgie:- Please do not feel intimidated.
ALL the sellers here were once "newbies".
If you list any items here you will have the same prominence as any one else. The New Items category will show your items for the same length of time as the rest of us. The Closing in 24 hours section will provide the same result. The majority of bids are laid down within the first 24 hours or during the last 24 hours of the auction.
There are certain days that appear to have many new items listed and many closing items.
There are also days where there are few new listings or closing items. (mostly Tuesday, Wednesday).
May I suggest that if you do list, do it as a group of 10 or 20, and when you list change the "Active" button to "place on hold" and when you have finished all your items click on the "Activate on Hold" button. This will list your items in a block, thus your items will be better "noticed".
It takes time and experimentation to find out what suits.
Please give it a try. Patience, perseverence, and a wee drop oil and you'll master it!
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10:35:02am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"You can go crazy trying to figure it out."
Greg:- I can only say "Wibble, wibble, wibble. I am a small building in London called Norman and I live on the moon which is made of strawberry ice-cream!"
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11:49:11am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Within 1 week of joining SoR I posted around 10 items, all different, in the approvals section. Within 24 hours these items had been removed by some still unknown person, and the reason given was unintelligible. To most others that would have been intimidating, but not to gudgie. Despite my request for an explanation, none was forthcoming. That to most others was intimidating. Not to gudgie
I did check out the sheriff's club. I did find that intimidating, so I gave up on that.
I tried again on SoR, putting up items both on auctions and approval, and they sold very very well. One springs to mind where 85% of items on 10 pages sold within 24 hours. That cheered me up. Those items I have put on have done really well, so I am not taking part in this discussion from a beginners viewpoint.
This discussion is about vendors using SoR to show off overpriced items, whether to overcharge members, or to glorify themselves and their collection. It's not about new members and whether they should be allowed to put items up for sale. If you want to encourage new members, contact them and offer continued contact. Since the day I joined, every person who has been in touch with me in any way, I have responded to at length, both seeking advice, and offering assistance. Maybe others should try that.
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12:11:14pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Gudgie you presented some interesting ideas. Thank you for that.
As for your approval book, it was inactivated as told to you because the approval book did not comply with the minimum requirements for posting such a book. We love seeing new people join in the different areas here, but to do so, one has to take a moment to learn the rules. We can't have approval books that contain just a couple of stamps in them. I'm sure you can understand the reason why.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
to continue, sort of, with the hand grenade metaphor: wow, a blast from the past... or, like a claymore, tons of them
Yes, we have at least one seller who sells stuff that you can buy below face for amounts that are often at or above full CV. a few of the offerings are uncommon, but most of it is easily found and at discounted prices.
And there's tons of nickel and penny sellers.
The auctioneers and management have occasionally tried to rein in one or another of these practices, and usually get our heads handed to us for our trouble. I think we've learned to keep our regulatory hands to ourselves.
At the same time, Ralph initiated the Approval section in an effort to move more of the penny lots out of the auction. In its own way, it has been wildly successful, although it didn't necessarily accomplish that specific goal.
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02:11:59pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"This discussion is about vendors using SoR to show off overpriced items, whether to overcharge members, or to glorify themselves and their collection."
That's some assumption.
Could it not be that the seller is not educated enough to realise they have put on "too high a price" and does not realise they are "overcharging"?
Here is a simple question
Seller A has listed a stamp at $10.00, Seller B has listed the same stamp at $20.00.
Which one is deliberately "Overcharging".
Answer.......NEITHER!!
I'll give you all a day to work out the reasoning!!
You can private message me with your responses if you like or post it on this thread!
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I agree with Roy's post. There are sellers who have monopolized the auctions. There are currently 639 auctions in United States and over 300 of them are one seller, and yes that overpriced stuff. That same seller has had 500-600 listings in the category at different times.
As said, it's easy for dealers to dump their entire Hip Stamp inventory here with the bulk uploader. Why because it's easy and free. If nothing sells, it's nothing ventured, nothing gained. If they make a few sales, they're happy.
In the meantime, as others said, people get tired of slogging through page after page of the same seller / over priced stuff. When I go in to look, I immediately exclude that seller, but many people aren't that computer savvy to know how to do it. Those are the people who then go away.
If this indeed is supposed to be a collector to collector medium for the fun of it, maybe eliminating this type of bulk seller is as easy as eliminating the bulk listing tool? Thoughts?
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Has anyone sent the overpriced sellers a message to inform them about the complaints from the membership? Maybe they are totally unaware that their pricing and/or listing practices are annoying the members. Perhaps they think everything is fine because they haven’t heard differently.
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Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Ian: Don't you love it?
"Then rrraphy throws in a grenade then BINGO!!"
I know it is easier to leave things untouched, but I for one always seek improvements (that others resist). And some times, it is good to shut up, and I have done that too.
My post referred to old similar remarks in a previous discussion, years ago, one posted by someone else, about ebay, and while ebay is impossible to deal with individually for any corrective measures, at least here at Stamporama, all the moderators and management have been SUPERBLY responsive to ideas, often responding the same day, always ready to change and also arguing to not rock the boat. (I understand that too, but Ian would hate it, if I did not, from time to time).
I did not want to suggest MY solution, but just to throw the subject open for discussion, and see if anyone else felt annoyed (Remark: it has been increasingly annoying to me, in Auctions, because of the volume of items that come under this topic, even if just initiated by one or two listers). I did not want to suggest any other "rule" related changes or blanket enforcement intervention, but for those few listers, I think we could intervene by enforcing selectively the rule for not listing more than 3 times..not mechanically rewriting software since it is technically complicated, by manually with a message asking for voluntary compliance. That is all. I know it puts the moderators in the spot and unfortunately not all members are civil, but it goes with the territory.
I think both Auctions and Approvals are gems here and work well. As a Club, we owe it to our members to avoid abuse of rule, and protect the inexperienced ones as we nurture their collecting skills, and this is different than a commercial site where the free market (and abuses) run rampant.
My experience, when I ran Approvals, is that most "faults" are due to ignorance of the rule, lack of computer skills, or missing out on a key reason why we do things a certain way. Most people here are quite nice to correct mistakes, and it is very rare that anyone has to be more forcefully "punished". Just sending a private message or two and explaining things, has almost always worked.
Someone mentioned the ability to block a name, but I was not aware of such a tool. It would work for me if we had it, but my objection when looking at 800 Auction items "newly listed" and 400+ fall under my categorization and probably have been listed again and again (I did not check). I takes skills and time to avoid the wasted energy and time scanning through them but most people don't know the software capabilities of Stamporama's platforms, or just give up...and some like me just eventually get annoyed and post.
Again, I was not planning to start a huge discussion of changes and limitations or rule enforcement, but just to see if we could reign in the few listers at fault.
rrr...
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"it's easy for dealers to dump their entire Hip Stamp inventory here with the bulk uploader"
I do believe this is against the site rules. You are not supposed to list stamps you are selling elsewhere. Michael? It's easy enough to check as the main spots are Ebay and Hip and if the images are identical.......
I can tell you from just doing my weekly BIN spreadsheet, checking it and rechecking it every week is a bit time consuming BUT I think I have put some very nice stamps into peoples collections. We're talking of maybe 150 items to check each week sometimes less depending on the prior weeks sales. To do an inventory dump and cross check it back week after week would take a considerable amount of time for what I think would be a very poor return on time spent. I find it hard to believe that anyone is doing that. I agree that running the same listings for 6-12 months or more is a bit much, but why penalize everyone for the actions of one?
Ralph how do you plan on enforcing that 3 and done rule? Does it mean that the stamps can never be listed again? Listed again in a month? 3 months? A year? I mentioned before that I can play the reduction game and adhere to a bulk lister rule by listing at 100% CV as a BIN and charging what the title says, not the price. More work for me but so be it
Why do you want penalize the collector who wants something now but cannot afford it and hopes that the stamp will still be there in 4-5 weeks? Is that fair? If I am the collector looking to buy something and you tell me that due to the rules I cannot, then I take offense to someone telling ME what I can buy and what i cannot buy. I can tell you with my 8 week BIN limit there have been stamps that were part of the next roll off, meaning that they would be gone the following week, that sold to collectors. Could they have afforded the stamps earlier? We don't know.
If you are going to implement any auction rule like this, the fairest way is to do it by percentage of auction lots sold. If you are listing 500 lots and have 2 sales week after week then something needs to be done to your listings.
For the slogging,perhaps part of the problem is the displaying of 30 records at a time. Is there is a way to change it to 100 or more? If there is, I could not find it.
Greg
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07 Nov 2019
04:54:12pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"For the slogging,perhaps part of the problem is the displaying of 30 records at a time. Is there is a way to change it to 100 or more? If there is, I could not find it."
Go to:
Home >> Members >> Edit Your membership information
Scroll down to the Auction section and you will see this:
Edit, click and it's done.
(not sure if there is an upper limit.)
Roy
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Here's how to exclude a specific seller from your auction list results.
1. Select that seller by highlighting their name (note I have scratched out names, not naming anyone, just how the screen came up)
2. Select "Exclude"
3. Hit "Refresh"
The list will no longer have that seller on it.
Note that in Step 2. you can also say "Display Only" and you will only see that seller's auctions. This is useful when you have purchased something from someone and you want to get your purchase amount up to maximize your postage costs.
When you are done, you will need to go back to Step 2 and select "Display All".
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Greg:
"Ralph how do you plan on enforcing that 3 and done rule? Does it mean that the stamps can never be listed again? Listed again in a month? "
I am only suggesting that we deal with the few abusers of the system (abuser..my interpretation) When you were software forced to lower prices by 20% every time you re-liste, it de facto enforced the 3 time limit re-listing rule, unless you just wanted to get rid of items at any price. Use of bulk loaders allow circumventing the re-posting and price reduction rule. But we can also operate on an HONOR system, and repeatedly abusing the rule could be handled, with warning, temporary(one or more time period) suspension(s), and eventually permanent. No one is suggesting checking every item and every seller.
The 3 time posting limit and 20% reduction in starting auction price were good conceptional ideas. Wish we had them, although for penny auctions I am all for not including them. It does not eliminate abuse, but it may help.
Nothing works better in my view than personal private intervention, although, as a moderator, you are possibly singled out for unpleasant verbal abuse (by a very few). Goes with the territory and I hope the moderator have a tough skin.
I moderate a neighborhood web site, and you learn to ignore the occasional abuse, or threats to report you to higher authorities
.rrr...
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06:13:25pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
rraphy said:-
"but just to see if we could reign in the few listers at fault."
I have always found that a quiet word in a "miscreants" ear works far better than making a song and dance about it.
Maybe even a question or making your concern known privately to the Management Team rather than "lobbing a grenade" which results in the opening of a "can of worms" is a better way to go.
Of course the simple solution is to remove the Bulk Uploader facility from the "miscreants" if they continue after their "bending" of the rules is brought to their attention.
Realistically all members should learn how to work the search, inclusive and exclusive systems available.
All members should remember to have patience, tolerance and understand that not everybody has their knowledge and experience.
Also that you will never have a system that is 100% perfect and the system we have covers most of the members needs.
Finally remember that stamporama is run by volunteers and it is only through the kindness of Roy that we have this club.
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06:15:30pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Big thanks to rrraphy for raising what is a big irritation to me as a member of Stamporama. Likewise thanks to BenFranklin for showing me how to get rid of these pesky people when looking to buy stamps. And a big thanks to auctioneer for finally telling me why my initial attempt to put books up for approval were unceremoniously removed without explanation. Hopefully this thread will be as educational for others as it has been to me.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Maybe they are anticipating a dramatic increase in stamp prices and trying to cash in early.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Thanks Roy! I never knew you could change it. Ralph, as for penny auctions they all sell every week, 64 out of 64. Used to always be for a penny, so much so that I had cut them back here. Now many get 2 or 3 bids. Obviously people like them. Sure i could take them and lump them into approval books with no catalog numbers like most people do but I am totally opposed to doing that. It works for some but I just won't do that unless its a topical issue.
If it was all about making a buck, I would not sell stamps. Profit margin is not huge when you sell cheap and its probably a complete wash or a loss if you count up what does not sell.
Greg
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07 Nov 2019
07:17:16pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"Nothing works better in my view than personal private intervention, "
I strongly disagree. One always gets into the "grey zone", that area where the behaviour isn't egregious, but is annoying nonetheless. The extreme abuses are clear, the middle ones are not.
In my opinion, rational limits, that apply to everyone and that can be easily applied without rancor, opinion or other personal preference are the way to go. Telling someone that his goods are overpriced is inappropriate. Let the market tell him through lack of sales. And if you are going to use "lack of sales" as a measuring stick, then measure it!
Try this on for size:
(quantities and numbers are open for discussion -- these are my idea as an opening position)
a) all members are entitled to have 100 lots open at any given time (100 lot limit). Listings are subject to the other rules of the auction, but nobody will tell them "it's too expensive" or "your stuff is too cheap". Let them run their business/hobby, whatever it is to them any way they want.
As of yesterday, there were 35 active sellers, only 12 of which had over 100 lots open, so the other 23 sellers won't even notice this limit.
b) As sellers prove their experience and merit, they can request limit increases (click a button). The suggested rules for limit increases is:
First limit increase -- to 250 lots.
i) Experience -- Must have sold 250 lots in the last 6 months (if you aren't selling that much, why do you need more than 100 lots at a time?). Not measuring listed, only SOLD.
ii) have a sell through rate (# sold / # listed) over that 6 months over 20%. (Listings include relistings.) If you aren't selling more than 20% of your listings, you need to rethink your offerings (price, quality, content), and we (the membership) don't need to see an increase in offers until you work it out.
Second limit increase -- to 500 lots.
Reserved for our very best sellers.
Sales: 500 lots in the previous 6 months (they would already have had the benefit of the 250 lot limit
Sell through rate: 35% (If you're not selling a good portion of what you are listing, we don't need to see 500 lots at a time)
That's it. This is not a commercial site, we have a limited membership, so nobody needs more than 500 listings.
Please don't argue the mechanics of doing it. This is so simple it's ridiculous. One more field in the members area "Your Auction limit", one line of code in the listing process "Is limited exceeded? Yes? >> Stop". The metrics are available with a single database query.
The numbers I ran yesterday don't exactly match the measurements above, but they will do as an approximation for measuring the effect. The difference is that I ran the numbers for all of 2019, not "the last 6 months". However, given that, here was the impact:
12 sellers accounted for 3495 listings out of a total 4220 current listings.
Nobody had more than 500 lots.
4 sellers would have qualified for the 500 lot limit.
4 sellers would have qualified for the 250 lot limit
6 sellers out of the 12 who had more than 100 lots would have experienced restrictions to their listings by the application of these rules.
1 because he has sold only 8 items, but has almost 500 lots - a newbie -- did really well on sell through, but that's too quick growth.
1 because he has sold just under the 250 lots, but he will soon qualify for 250 lot increase
1 because his sell through rate is just over 1% - and the source of most of the complaints in this thread.
3 who are close to 500 lots each, but would qualify only for the 250 lot limit because of sell through rates between 20% and 34.9%
The net effect of applying these limits would be to reduce the number of current auction lots by about 1200 (from 4200 to 3000).
I would also propose, for simplicity's sake, that this measurement is not intended to be constantly reviewed in order change a sellers limit up and down. I would say that once a limit increase has been earned, it remains, subject to review and re-measurement only if the seller's behaviour or selling pattern changes markedly in a manner detrimental to the auction.
Please note this post is for discussion purposes only! It does not represent new auction policy.
Roy
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
for the record; we did have a four and done policy on auctions at one point. We enforced it by using the PRESUMABLY unique picture label stored in the auction database.
Of course, some people use the same auction picture label for multiple images, thereby causing all sorts of unintended problems to the innocents who were caught in our four-layered web.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I browse the auctions when I feel like it, I buy what I feel like buying. I hadn't even noticed there was a problem!
Just sitting here watching this unfold....
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"The extreme abuses are clear, the middle ones are not."
I'd suggest just dealing with the extreme abusers. I don't see a need to change the system.
Roy has access to the statistics and can point out the people who have posted huge amounts of auctions (mostly buy-it-now) and have had very low sell through rates.
Check to see if they are members of the community-- people who participate in the message boards, and do things other than just use the selling feature. Give community members some leeway.
And just can the few out and out abusers. Nothing lost!
By the way, the three main model car hobby boards don't allow any selling, and only one has a trading board. You know why!
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08:26:23pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I have a problem with limits.
Namely it is obvious that someone could put up 100 lots at 10 cents sell 99 and his sales would be 99%. (Total Sales $9.99).
Someone could put up 100 lots at an average of $2 sell 15 out of the 100 and his unit sales would be 15%. (Total Sales $30).
Members sometimes moan about the "quality" of listings, that there is not enough better quality stamps.
My solution to the whole situation is LEAVE WELL ALONE!!
The system has worked reasonably well and if members do not want to trawl through the (to them) so called " Overpriced" stamps let them use the SEARCH SYSTEMS AVAILABLE PROPERLY.
Earlier in this post I asked this question:-
"Seller A has listed a stamp at $10.00, Seller B has listed the same stamp at $20.00.
Which one is deliberately "Overcharging".
Answer.......NEITHER!!"
The reasoning behind the answer is simple:-
NEITHER deliberately overcharged because Seller A used a catalogue from 2010 and Seller B used a catalogue from 2019!!!!
OR
Seller A Used the Scott Catalogue and Seller B used the Stanley Gibbons catalogue.
rrraphy. To Quote Colonel Jack O'Neill "Back At You".
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08:31:33pm
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Dave:-
There is no problem its just one or two moaners.
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08:47:46pm
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
AS I said earlier since the 7th of August there have been 5 threads listed in this Topic of the Discussion Board, Six including this thread.
That shows the Auctions are running well and no action is needed on this subject.
This is my final word on the matter, I'm off to bed as its 01.45hrs.
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10:39:11pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I resent being called a moaner.
I responded to this discussion by agreeing with a new thread originated by Roy Lingen, who happens to be the person by whose grace Stamporama exists. This thread is the first discussion in which I have posted a public contribution, and is a subject which has now generated well over 50 contributions in a fraction over 2 days. Does that make me a moaner?
I suspect this will be one of SoR's busiest threads ever. Brechinite is entitled to his opinion, but he should be more circumspect. Has anyone else noticed that in every post he makes the word power appears. Could it be that the power may have gone to his head?I
The election campaign is underway in the UK. Watch this space!!!!!!
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12:20:58am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"enforcing selectively the rule for not listing more than 3 times"
THERE IS NO SUCH RULE!
@Gudgie - John, I owe you an apology. I have the copy of the private message that was supposed to be sent to you back on May 8 regarding the problem with your approval book. Why you did not receive it, I do not have a clue. The system shows it was not sent.
@Greg You are correct. Items offered for sale here cannot be offered for sale anywhere else.
I do have to say that we are not going to start looking at every web site that has stamps for sale to see if there is a violation of the rule. We will do that, if you all are willing to pay membership dues and buying and selling fees as well as giving us a nice salary to do all this work. That is not to say that selling the same items in multiple venues has not been discovered or reported. When it is discovered or reported, the matter is investigated, and the seller contacted. For those sellers who had a non-shipment complaint reported, and it was found that they had sold the same item elsewhere (usually at a higher price), those sellers were removed from Stamporama for violating the contract that they had with the buyers here.
I don't see how we have "abusers" of the sales platforms based on what has been stated in this thread. Has any seller violated any of the rules? I have not received any reports of this. There are no restrictions to how many items a person may list in the auctions, or how many times an item may be listed. There are no restrictions as to how a seller prices the items for sale. No one has alleged any fraudulent activity by any seller, so where is the abuse/violation of the rules?
People are calling for enforcement of the rules, but are stating rules supposedly being violated that simply do not exist. when we had a tight reign with stricter rules, people complained that we were too strict, and we were crucified for it. You can't have it both ways, folks. I suggest that reading the rules might be a good thing for people to do.
Why not put energy to better use? Write philatelic articles about aspects of the hobby that interest you that can be published on this site. Create articles and exhibits to share with fellow SOR members. Avoid sellers that you prefer not to buy from. Work on your stamp collection, and discuss what you are doing on the Discussion Boards. Stamp collecting is a hobby. A hobby is supposed to be relaxing.
Finally, do we really have to go through this same discussion every few months?
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Not funny how a discussion topic can expand well beyond its original purpose.
"I see as of late a flood of material (just a few sellers) that, to me, is over priced. And it does not sell, but reappears on auctions regularly. Do some of you feel the same way, and should a stamp club selling platform be managed differently than a commercial site? I know Ian is going to object to my tinkering with "free market""
The answer to this question is YES some members feel the same.
Ian, our absolute free market proponent, as always proposes doing nothing. We have had rule changes here before, and it is an on-going process that have improved everything over time as far as I can tell. If this topic returns to the discussion board again and again, as you pointed out, maybe there is something there.
Also Ian, (and sorry to all others here about the personal comment next), please, please do not be personally insulting, in British or American English, the words you use are insulting. Some may not be as thick skinned as I am. And don't tell me what to post and how to write my comments. If you don't like them, don't read them, or just disagree.
Michael, we did have a rule about limiting the number of reposts on auctions, as pointed by David T, which I guess we no longer have, but that is not what I was discussing. It is the flood of material that does not sell and that seems to clutter the Auction platform, and IF we should do something about it. It does bother me, but I was unsure if others felt the same.
Roy, thanks for your analysis and if there are simple (software) ways to improve the Auction experience, (which is being impacted), I am all for trying.
BenFranklin,
"I'd suggest just dealing with the extreme abusers. I don't see a need to change the system."
And Michael
"Why not put energy to better use? Write philatelic articles about aspects of the hobby that interest you that can be published on this site. Create articles and exhibits to share with fellow SOR members. "
As you know, I have done ALL of the above, and quite frankly it has elicited very few comments, and seemed a waste of time and energy here...enough so that I have put other such endeavors elsewhere. This however seems more interesting to folks, and is also what a discussion board is for.
rrr....
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"NEITHER deliberately overcharged because Seller A used a catalogue from 2010 and Seller B used a catalogue from 2019!!!!"
Not the answer I expected but also true. Something is only worth what some other person is willing to pay. I have had penny auctions sell for more than catalog value. Not often but it happens. I have also had regular auctions sell for almost catalog value. I currently have an auction elsewhere of a poster stamp of a submarine (USS Argonaut) that is in a bidding war and sits at $46. This for something that is not even a philatelic stamp. There is no real right price for a stamp. If a person wants to pay the price they will, if not they won't.
Greg
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04:35:00am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Micheal posted these wise words
"Finally, do we really have to go through this same discussion every few months?"
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09:03:14am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"Has anyone else noticed that in every post he makes the word power appears. Could it be that the power may have gone to his head?"
For those that do not know the line:-
"By the power vested in me, I hereby commandeer this vehicle and all those within, and that means you smart ass....Sheriff J.W. Pepper"
is from my favourite film "Live and Let Die". It reminds me of two fabulous weekends I spent in Birmingham and two members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police I knew in Alberta.
Since it has been taken entirely the wrong way I have now changed it. (See Below)
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"I have a problem with limits.
Namely it is obvious that someone could put up 100 lots at 10 cents sell 99 and his sales would be 99%. (Total Sales $9.99).
Someone could put up 100 lots at an average of $2 sell 15 out of the 100 and his unit sales would be 15%. (Total Sales $30)."
Agreed. A seller needs to have enough items for sale as to make for a reasonable sale for both parties.
As a buyer, when I find an auction item, before I bid I do two things. First I look at the postage and handling charge. Second I browse through the sellers other auctions to find other items I'd be interested in. I like to make my purchases worthwhile for both parties. After all, I'm paying a postage cost that may be too much for a single cheap item. And the seller is paying Paypal fees. I'd hate to do that to someone for a $2 purchase.
I have been an occasional seller. My last experience was in September. I posted 140 auctions for US first day covers. My sell through rate was 17% which only amounted to $15.25. Still, my largest sale to an individual was $6.85. So you do need to have a bunch of auctions running so that people have enough selection to find enough to purchase at once.
On the other end of the spectrum, I remember finding a 25 cent item I wanted, seeing a $2 postage charge. I searched the seller's auctions and found they didn't have $2 total worth of auctions for sale! Not worth anyone's time or effort.
Note that it was a lot of work to photo and post 140 auctions. Not worthwhile at all if you were doing this for financial gain. I was doing it for fun, and to get some of the old covers I've had for 40 years out and into collections. And the interactions were cordial and fun.
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09:40:04am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I have thought long and hard whether I should add to this thread.
rrraphy and Others:- I agree with you.
It is annoying having to scroll through the same stamps night after night, but if you use the search functions available it is easily overcome (it only takes a couple of seconds).
But this is where we differ.
To any problem there are solutions, there are also consequences from each solution.
Whenever I see someone seeking an "improvement". I analyze it, work out the solutions, and work out the consequences.
Through doing that I knew how this thread would develop so I had to work out a stratagem to avoid the consequences.
I started with pointing out the lottery of selling here (and other sites). Suggested that people use the search functions available and how limits would reduce choice and we are ALL allowed to work within the rules.
There is no existing rule that forbids what is being done.
I threw in the joke about rrraphy "lobbing in a grenade".
I then showed how "overpricing" may not be deliberate.
Then the Limits came up (I knew at the very start of this thread they would, see my very first post). The consequence of limits is that it would make some members "More Equal than Others". To me the consequences of the introduction of such limits are morally unjustifiable especially as the "abusers" (not my word) were working within the rules. Therefore it could not be allowed to happen and I would and will use any stratagem to prevent any member becoming "More Equal than Others"or "Less Equal than Others"
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Hello Ian: I don't mind your "grenades" but they can hit bystanders (mine too)
Choice of words can also be consequential!
The main point of my post, apart from trying to relieve the annoyance from listings that come under my definition of "rule abuse" and "overpricing", is very simple, and I have stated it before (edited):
""I think both Auctions and Approvals are gems here and work well....(but) as a Club, we owe it to .............. protect the inexperienced ones (members) as we nurture their collecting skills, and this is different than a commercial site where the free market (and abuses) run rampant.""
So, that is ALL I was asking.
Is there a problem? Should we do something? IF and HOW ?
But whereas I don't care how ebay runs Auctions in a free for all market full of abuse, deceit and rule-bending, I do here, and I think it is our role.
We tackle defective stamps, but not pricing, and alas, the Auction relisting rule has fallen by the wayside. It is up to management (if and how).
Ok, point raised, objections and support discussed (heated discussion indicates passion), individual solutions and suggestions offered, the discussion board served its purpose, let us put it to rest, and throw it back to management.
rrr...
PS: In our SF stamp Club Auctions, we admonish and don't allow members to sell items that are defective (and are not described as such), to protect members who would not know otherwise, ( items cannot be checked easily due to format and time constraint). We do it here too.
Pricing is openly discussed, with SCV references, to protect beginners and establish a fair system. Also, items cannot be re-listed more than twice.
Seems to me that Stamporama as a Club has a similar responsibility.
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03:11:34pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Pricing and "overpricing" are not easily defined as it is a personal viewpoint
The only fair way to avoid different prices is to stipulate the catalogue to be used and the % of catalogue value you can use.
This cannot be done on stamporama in its current form. Why?
Seller A listed his Set of Albania stamps on the first of the month At $10, to come off on the 8th of the month. On the 9th of the month he relists it using the Unsold/Relist button the price will be $10 - 20% = $8. (Some of us still work to this rule)
Seller B lists the same set on the 10th of the month and prices it at $10 to come off on the 17th of the month.
BINGO! You now have 2 identical sets of stamps up for auction at two different prices.
You see CONSEQUENCES.
Parts of the stamporama system I utterly DETEST. I know the solutions to these problems BUT I also know the consequences of implementing these solutions and which groups they would affect (either the members or the volunteers), but I would not dream of putting them forward for change.
As none of the things I detest are life threatening to me... I can live with them.
In conclusion
Don't just read the rules..... Absorb them, get to know the system, get it working for you........ OK you may have to adapt your own way of working but its the only system we have, thanks to the kindness of Roy and the Volunteers.
Change can be good.....Only it has to be the right change for the right reasons, within the rules and does not discriminate against any member.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"... Only it has to be the right change for the right reasons, within the rules ..."
PMFJI: The rules are precisely what folks are proposing to change. That's okay.
That only a small number of people might be directly affected does not, in and of itself, prove that a change is wrong; there might only be a small number of people whose behavior needs trimming.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
If only a few people are causing this issue to be discussed again (and again!) then I agree with Ikey, “only a few people’s behavior needs to be trimmed.”
Just in case they are unaware, how about politely asking these folks to read this thread? That would not involve any rule changes and would eliminate the possibility that they are ignorant of the feelings of many of the members. That might be all it takes.
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04:05:02pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
If a person is outwith the rules then fine sanction them. If they are working within the rules then they should not be sanctioned.
Rule changes should not be detrimental to the few and forced by the many.
Rule changes should be analysed, possible consequences, both short term and long term should be considered only then should a decision to change or implement a rule take place.
Lets say a rule change takes place, 8 members are never heard from again because of it.
Well we changed one rule, lets change another, and this time 10 members vanish into the ether etc etc etc.
The main problem that this site has is its lack of members and it always will suffer from that problem.
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Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Not sure about overcharging but I think I often overpay, good job the wife doesn't see the paypal invoices.
But this is because I see the stamp that fills the gap and life is too short to wait for it to possibly come cheaper.
What I do find irritating are the sellers still putting up damaged stamps without noting such damage, maybe they cannot see the creases, tears, damaged perfs and nor can I until I increase the image size on my laptop.
As an example there are currently a few GB auction items from the same seller where in one offer there are 5 stamps, 3 with perf damage, 1 creased.
Second offer crease, tear, perf damage(4).
Third offer damaged corner and top perf damage.
OK I'm looking for this but maybe some folks don't, our brains all tend to fill in the gaps which is how we are easily fooled by fakes.
Hopefully the fact that there have been views, but no bids, will cause the seller to be more discerning in future.
Ah well, money comes, money goes and I can't take it with me when I get composted.
No offence intended to anyone.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I am curious - those that say that the auctions are overpriced, do you buy from approval books? How do you know if the approval books are overpriced? I just took France as a random category and checked books from 9 sellers. None had Scott numbers. Do all these people have sets of catalogs and go through approval books to check Scott percentage?
Also the ebay critics - have you ever bought anything that you were not satisfied with and NOT gotten a refund? I had to refund a buyer the other day because a poem he THOUGHT was in a book was not. Not that he asked ahead of time mind you. Certainly there are faults with ebay but not providing an immediate refund is not one of them. I buy on ebay with 100% confidence in the sellers I deal with.
Greg
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
11 Nov 2019
06:09:49pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Let's keep it simple, some of this is too complicated for me. I just saw a US stamp on SOR I didn't have so I looked it up in my 2016 US specialized to check the price. The most I like to pay, unless it is a very special copy, is about half of that value. This stamp was full CV, I passed, 'nuff said. I think that stamp, even though I'd love to pick it up, is over the price I'll usually pay. It would complete a page, so I was tempted, but there are some sellers (not many) who are way too close to CV and sometimes over it for almost every stamp they list. That to me is what this string should really be about. You can post your material for whatever you want but a few of you are too high for me. I don't care how many times you list it and many other things being discussed. All I care about is the price and I suppose, since I'm from Canada, the shipping comes into it as well. I have picked up some amazing stuff from some of you and will continue to do so!! Thanks!!
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11:21:52pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Very well said Harvey. You put into words what I have been trying to get over since this thread began. I don't look too closely at the price of a stamp if we are talking a few cents. If it fills a gap, and it's less than the face value of the stamp, then I won't look up a catalogue or consult ebay, or hipstamp, or colnect, or any other. If I want it and can afford it, I will buy it.
The issue in this thread is some, well maybe we should actually say, one member sells items way over face value. For example, a sheet with a value of 3 dollars is currently up, with a minimum bid value of 15.75. The member currently has around 300 items up for sale all above face value. Not one of them has a bid, and, when the time runs out and they don't sell, they, or more like them, will immediately be relisted here for sale again at the same price. it is that practice which I find irritating. In my local stamp shop, mint stamps are routinely priced below 50% of face value.
And to sheepshanks, I wondered whether your comments applied to my current offerings, so I had a look. I can see you were talking about my lots, While I may not have your experience of checking stamps, I would say the stamps were scanned at very high resolution and great images shows all stamps accurately, and the lots are way below any catalogue price. While your comments are fair, you know I am just beginning to collect stamps. A word in my ear would have been nice. I will make mistakes, but a wise man once said "The man who never made a mistake, never made anything". I appreciate the info, and your comment will teach me lessons I won't forget.
And yes, I have received stamps from others on this site which may have been slightly less than perfect. But slight imperfection doesn't worry me. My wife of 40 years has been trying to smooth out my rough edges all that time. Perhaps it's rubbing off on me.
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12:07:25am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Just to be clear. The people being discussed are not "offenders". They are not violating any rules. If they were, the Auctioneers would have interceded. Just because you do not like how someone is conducting business, does not mean that the seller is wrong.
If you want to contact a seller to discuss their business practices, remember to keep it civil. Also, if the seller states that they do not have to make any changes, because they are not breaking any rules, well, that is true, even if it isn't the best customer service that they can provide.
My opinion regarding sales, and I sell regularly at flea markets and hobby shows as well as other online sites, is that I sell things to sell. I do not bring/post things to sell just to put them on display, have little to no sales and take everything back home with me. However, at every venue where I sell, I see others who are "very proud" of what they have, and they simply occupy space (physical or electronic) and sell very little. Still, how they price is up to them. People who sell at too high a price just give everyone else an opportunity to sell more. Still, however, these people do sell something now and then.
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Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
From OUR Auction Rules:
Unacceptable Listing Practices:
"
E1. The following listing practices are considered unacceptable, and may result in summary closure of an auction lot:
h. Items are not priced competitively compared to pricing of similar material for sale by others
i. Shipping and/or handling fees are excessive"
As a side comment because I don't know how to gage competitively priced here, given the size of our Club, but at stamp shows, almost all common US Sheets sell at face or even at a discount of face value. There are exceptions for some sheets of course, but modern (post WW2) sheets pretty much sell as I described.
I checked on Hipstamp and ebay. Most US sheets listed in Auctions start at a discount off face value, and for fixed price listings, typically they list within a +/-10% of the face value. (shipping always extra and unregulated on ebay)
And for "Gudgie" re :
"The issue in this thread is some, well maybe we should actually say, one member sells items way over face value. For example, a sheet with a value of 3 dollars is currently up, with a minimum bid value of 15.75. The member currently has around 300 items up for sale all above face value. Not one of them has a bid, and, when the time runs out and they don't sell, they, or more like them, will immediately be relisted here for sale again at the same price. it is that practice which I find irritating. In my local stamp shop, mint stamps are routinely priced below 50% of face value.
"
My very same feelings, but I am not even shopping for these US sheets, I just waste time as they clutter the Auction platform, and I am scanning for material I want.
rrr...
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02:44:14am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"h. Items are not priced competitively compared to pricing of similar material for sale by others
i. Shipping and/or handling fees are excessive""
Finally somebody has read the rules.
The "offender" is still within the rules.
The important phrase within the rule is:-
compared to pricing of similar material for sale by others
Who else is selling U.S. Sheets or part sheets on this site? No One
Also if no one else has a particular stamp listed at a lower price technically the "offender" is not breaking the rule.
As I've said previously if you do not want to view a sellers items
use the various search facilities available.
Live with it!!
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Prices are based on whatever catalogue you use.
If seller A lists a stamp priced against Gibbons, seller B prices against Scott, and seller C prices against Michel, all of which will give different CV's, whose listing will be deemed to be not competitively priced? The high price or the low price?
Gudgie
" In my local stamp shop, mint stamps are routinely priced below 50% of face value"
Your local dealer is looking at going bust I think!
Gudgie
"you know I am just beginning to collect stamps"
If that's the case, with respect, trying to teach experienced sellers how to suck eggs is a bit rich.
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04:42:21am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Seller pricing that is at or below catalog value for stamps in the condition as stated in the catalog for the catalog value is not considered "excessive".
Excessive shipping and handling fees is not, I believe, part of this discussion as that is easy to determine, i.e.: item price $0.01, shipping $25.00.
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09:38:53am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I have been a member here since April 2015.
I have sold many, many, many, many stamps here during that time both on the Auction and Approval systems.
I am human so I can and do make mistakes.
How many members during that time have contacted me to say "Ian, you do realise that item XXXXX is "under priced"!!
I'll tell you.......NOT ONE!!!!!!
And I know that some items have been under priced!!!
So save me from the Hypocrisy.
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10:30:28am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
My local stamp shop appears to have been trading well for a considerable time, and most mint stamps on SoR are sold way under 50% of face value.
I would never ever attempt to tell experienced collectors now to collect stamps. My wife, the real collector in this house, won't even allow me to handle mint stamps, I am so clumsy. That is not, and never has been the issue here, despite crude efforts to deflect this thread.
Without checking back, I am certain at no time in this discussion, have I, or any supporting my point of view, called those who overcharge, "offenders". I for one accept they are breaking no rules.
I have communicated privately with the person involved and have entered discussion with him. Naturally, he disagreed with my views, but he did so in a pleasant, unargumentative, non-confrontational way. I respect his, and other people's views and will fight for their right to differ.
Finally, I put up 4 lots over the weekend. Sadly, it was brought to everyone's attention that 2 stamps were damaged, and perfs on others may have been less than perfect. I was unable to remove them last night, but, after checking how to do so, they have now been removed. The scans clearly showed the condition of the stamps. Those stamps will not be offered again. I apologise if this caused a problem to anyone. If anyone has received from me, any item which is not as described please contact me immediately.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Nov 2019
10:54:58am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
We all know the person who "sells all the sheets". I don't collect, or want, sheets so I just skim through them. But I have bought other things from this seller and have been very happy with the material I bought. His prices are a bit higher than most but sometimes, if he has an item I have been searching for, I part with my money. His service is excellent, the quality of the material is top notch and he always communicates with me, the buyer. Actually the US stamp I mentioned earlier that was at CV was from another seller. The price was not exorbitant considering the beautiful condition of the stamp, just a bit higher than I wanted to pay. The only point I am concerned about is price and condition. If we are happy we buy, if we are unhappy we don't! Again, to quote Stan Lee, 'nuff said!
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Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Gudgie, I deliberately refrained from mentioning the seller by name as others are also not describing defects. The rule from the Auction sellers notes reads as follows.
"C8a. Reliance on images alone to show defects is not permitted. All lots of single stamps and sets of stamps must include, at a minimum, descriptions of all defects. This includes repairs, thins, creases, pulled or torn perforations, scuffs, tears, stains, extraneous writing or markings in ink or marker (other than owner/authentication marks), etc. For large stamp mixtures and collections it is permissible to describe only the overall condition of the lot."
I also appreciate that stamps I have purchased from you have not had defects and if I see any more items that I need of yours I will not hesitate to bid.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Right now the United States category has 699 items listed. 473 of those are from the one seller in question. That leaves only 226 items from all other sellers combined.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
seeing nobody has posted since my last post, I now see that in the USA category, there are 941 items listed, 641 by the individual mentioned in my last post, and only 300 from all other sellers.
Since this thread peaked my interest, I decided to give auctions another try. On 11-14 I posted up 70 items. I tried to vary what I posted, so there's a mixture of plate blocks from different eras posted for sale at an average of a nickel over face each. There are lots of old mint commemorates and blocks at about face value. And a selection of older USA mint and used at what I felt were reasonable prices. I tried to match what others were posting.
As many said, the activity happens on the first day. I received four 25 cent bids on that day. And since then... crickets! My stuff is just sitting. Very few have even received a view.
My terms are very friendly, 55 cents for USA and $1.10 for international, which are the cost of a one ounce letter.
So am I doing something wrong? Or are there no buyers / viewers?
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
My observations as a seller - While I have no proof, starting auctions over 20% CV are rarely successful. Most want to pay less than that. High catalog items don't sell well at auction. US rarely sells in either my stores or at auction. I have had some minor success of late with US, which surprised me. They were quite high in CV but were priced at 15-20% CV. Items under 50 cents as an opening bid will sell, but in US stamps, there are not a lot of stamps that fall into that category that people still need for their collections except for revenues. Others may have different opinions than I do, but thats how I see it looking at my sales
Greg
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
21 Nov 2019
02:47:16pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I'll come back in with a comment. I bought several of the US stamps Greg is talking about and thought I should share my logic. I am at the stage with my 4 areas (Poland, Russia, US and Canada) where the majority of the stamps I'm looking for are more pricey. I try to stay under 30 - 40% CV, if possible, but some of these stamps are hard to find. Also, if the stamps have good centering or are MNH they should bring a higher value. So I check the quality of the stamp being offered which is why a clear photo is important to me. For a beautiful example of a stamp I really want, I might pay CV or more. I really don't want album fillers!!! Most of you are very precise about the stamps you offer and I have not been burned yet, but if the photo is not good I DON'T BID. I have picked up some great material from Greg and others out there - I really shouldn't name names. There are a couple of you who consistently charge high prices, but if the material is good I still buy. Maybe I shouldn't, but I judge by the quality and how hard some stamps are to find. I occasionally buy from a few specific dealers on E-Bay I have had good luck with and ignore stamps where it seems to good to be true. To sum up - I will spend more for good quality stamps. If I pass them by I may never see them again. Don't judge only by the price!!
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Joe you indeed have bought some nice stamps from me, but to be honest, you are one of the exceptions to the rule. I once offered some revenue issues that to the best of my knowledge there are less than a dozen known copies, and he told me that he would not pay over 10% catalog value, and I believe the catalog value is understated. I think more often than not, at least on this site, 20-25% is the going rate for auctions unless the buyer has no catalog. Some of the stuff I have seen with bids at half catalog amaze me. I think for the general collector, which you are not, price is the determining factor. I now I must get back to baking cookies for our churches holiday fair on Saturday......
Greg
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
21 Nov 2019
03:35:59pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Greg, the next time I buy from you I expect you to toss in a few cookies - wrapped in plastic of course!
A little story: I bought a beautiful "used" copy of NS#4 for close to catalog value a few years ago. It was beautifully centered with nice margins - a real joy! It turned out to be a mint copy, no gum to speak of unfortunately, but worth at least twice the used value, with more gum and no hinge mark it would be even more. Sometimes if we pay a little more we get a little more!
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Joe, back in the day I ran a rather successful cookie business around Christmas. I was very close about 10 years or so ago, to becoming partners so to speak with a guy that owned a bakery in town. Sadly they did construction that closed down one of the main avenues into town, and the business dried up and closed in October. Had he made it through October and November, I probably would have worked along side him making cookies. I was a regular there and once he had me sample a chocolate chip cookie that his wife made. He asked me what i thought and I said ok, but mine were better. He didn't believe me. I brought in a sample and his eyes lit up. He said they would literally fly off the shelves - and they would have. I knew a guy who's Dad owned a bakery and he loved the cookies but advised me not to open a bakery. Its a long and hard day. I know from those many years ago that it is. I would get home from work at 6, eat and bake until 12 for most of December.This was back when we were in NYC in the early 1990's. Had more energy then - I think.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Greg, I believe your observations since you are one of the more prominent sellers on the boards. I can say you are probably right about USA, a while back I posted an approval book of USA commemoratives. Used copies, 3 of each commemorative from the 1940s and 1950s. If it was successful I would have continued with the 1960s and 1970s. I thought there would be people with holes in their collections who would be able to fill them for a few cents each. I had no sales!
It does defy certain logic. There are new people joining SOR every day. I just counted 54 new members for the past 60 days, almost one a day! Some introduce themselves on the board as brand new or returning collectors. I was hoping that some of them would need the more common items to build their new collections.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
22 Nov 2019
04:36:28pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I joined in April of this year and have managed to fill many holes in my collection both old and new. I really don't see why the sellers here should have to give their stamps away. There is no reason why someone shouldn't be willing to pay at least 20% CV. I see stuff on other sites selling for much more than that. I've seen some very odd stuff on SOR. There are some of the sellers who try to auction an item for a certain price as a bid and have a BIN price of 1 cent more and the person bids rather than pay the extra cent to be sure of the item. I'm not saying that some of the buyers here are cheap skates, but that's insane. I think, for a good item, anyone should be willing to pay at least 20% CV, if not then start checking out yard sales!! My humble opinion, for the little bit it's worth.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Harvey, I agree! When I started doing approval books, I'd salt the books with a few good items at a bargain to get people to go through them. I figured that once they were in the book, they'd buy a few additional items to get the order up to a reasonable level. Nope! Immediately upon placing the books, people would go through and just grab the good items! Total order less than a dollar.
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22 Nov 2019
05:31:00pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
There are times when any of us go into a book and only find one thing we want - I don't cherry pick but there might only be one stamp we need. There was a Cuba book put on a little while ago and I found 54 items and then there was a book from Poland a little while ago that I only needed one item from. The books like the Cuba one are actually very stressful because you're trying to buy everything you want before someone else finds the book. I really wish that would happen more often, but it is tiring - you're there with your album or want list trying to find everything. The times when you only find a couple things are quite stressful as well because you keep hoping the next page will be better for you. The approval books, to me, are more fun than the auctions. But I still think you deserve more than pennies for your stuff.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"But I still think you deserve more than pennies for your stuff."
Agreed. I collect New Jersey postmarks on full cover. I buy a lot of them on eBay. I'll pay $5 for a clean cover with clear cancel of any DPO I don't already have. I figure that someone found the cover for me, photographed and described it, posted the auction and is going to mail it to me. That service is certainly worth $5. I buy some covers for a lot less too.
A person I know looked at my NJ cover albums and sneered that there wasn't a cover worth a dollar there. He said I could find them in 10 cent boxes at shows. Yea, but I'd have to do all that searching!
And I've even reasoned out that I'll buy nice covers from current post offices. When I go on my postal runs, I average 10 covers per day, and run off a tank of gas. Figure 55 cents postage on each cover, and $3 worth of gas. Those covers cost me $3.55 each!
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I don't think I have bought too many "overpriced" items on SOR but then I don't really care what the price is if I want the item. I on occasion check catalogue value,but don't have a percentage limit when making a purchase on SOR. I have purchased/won 2046 lots since joining in November 2012 and in the last 120 days I have purchased 11 lots at $113.76, three at $20 and over one at $10 and over and three at $5 and over and four under $5, I wanted them so I bought them.
I have also purchased many items for under a buck and paid postage that equals the cost of the item or more and it does not bother me a bit.
As far as members selling gaziilions of "overpriced" stamps, if they are of no interest to me,the filter works well and I just move along nothing to see here.....
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12:02:24am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I simply don't understand this whole thread. There is no such thing as overcharging short of a monopoly. If you don't like the price ~ move on. If you don't want to scroll through some particular seller - learn to use the filter. We ought to make a reality channel of the fighting philatelists ~ not sure how it would stand up against WAGtha christie, Prince Andrew or Rich Wives of Atlanta, but you could try to stick it to 'em.
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"... I simply don't understand this whole thread ..."
You and me both, sister.
Perhaps some buyers are thinking that the world owes them a bargain, especially if they are going to go thru all that work of looking for one.
"... I figure that someone found the cover for me, photographed and described it, posted the auction and is going to mail it to me ..."
You and me both, brother.
I routinely pay more for quarter-box items when I see them on SOR because, well, I didn't have to drag my self to some quarter box, paw my way through it, agonize over the stuff that might/not be worth a whole quarter ...
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Auctions
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Just recently I have been buying covers from the Netherlands Indies to add to my stamp collection .I would love to know how sellers price their covers I have purchased several nice covers and postcards at a few dollars each I see covers with the same stamps with sellers asking over $100 and more.
There are hundreds of covers on Hipstamps and Delcampe they can't be worth what is being asked for them?
Brian
PS haven't seen any on SOR though!!!!!
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01:20:52am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
The prices on approvals are so cheap here that sometimes i cant be bothered to click an item. Its easier to hit buy the page and move on ... I mean 1 to 10 cents a stamp ... would any of you actually work for those wages ... (i'll qualify that by saying north americans and europeans, because perhaps in some misbegotten places it might be worth it ) And lastly if the issue is one of supporting the cost of the site vs some person posting poorly price crap ~ ban or limit the individual ~ end of soap opera...
`
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re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I would consider doing the same if not for all the duplicates. I have no real system yet on want/ trade but that is a goal. I had stopped inventorying my spares but maybe need to restart.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"I would love to know how sellers price their covers"
Brian, exactly why I don't sell covers here. I have no idea what to charge, and while there probably are specialized books for every county the cost would be enormous. As you said, there are people selling covers on ebay and Hip and I suspect they have no idea either. I have tried a couple of Japan and Monaco FDC at auction for 50 cents and got no takers or even looks, so my guess there is no interest. A shame as I have hundreds of covers. It's not even worth the time putting them into a book. Did that once as well a couple of years back and they did not sell that way either. Tried some older US FDC's at auction too. Nada.
Greg
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08:25:39am
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
I really dont see how some sellers charging higher prices is bad for anyone. As long as people can sort by price this will actually benefit sellers who price their items more competitively. Oy vey. Let the market decide.
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11:57:55am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
"would any of you actually work for those wages"
Jings!....Crivvens!....Help Ma Boab!
Some of us have to. Just to be able to put gas in the Ferrari!....
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03:01:21pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Jeremy will take care of you fat cats
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03:13:34pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
nlroberts1961:- Do you mean Jeremy Corbyn?
...................OR
Jeremy, The Sugar Puff Bear?
p.s. Probably before your time. Jeremy was before the Honey Monster.
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03:19:15pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Why of course Brother Jeremy
I had no idea you lived in Sugar Puff Land But then maybe they are one and the same ...
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03:28:20pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgVQtGw80LY
Power To The People
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03:31:41pm
re: Do some people over charge on Stamporama Auctions?
Daang now i'll have to sell 1500 stamps to buy the complete DVD collection
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