Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
09:58:33am
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yes, it should be mentioned (and an illustration showing us couldn't hurt either).
in essence, any degradation from a pristine copy should be mentioned, and described.
presumably what you are describing is a "pulled perf(s)"; some people care, others don't; most will want a discount from the going price for any damage(s) the stamp has.
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I used to be very active on approvals but lately I stay away for the simple reason that
there are so many damaged stamps that is not funny anymore, I can understand a lite thin
or small creased but please stamps with missing chunks? and I don't mean just corners but
stamps so badly damaged the they hurt your eyesight. I don't think that people that display
these kind of stamps would like to have them in their collection so what makes them think that someone else will?
I do have a small trash can next to my desk and every time a damaged stamps shows up that's where it goes. Please, please, please do not post damaged stamps on the approval books or auction pages. Thank you very much.
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Case and point. Just went to the approval books and I see on the very first page that he very first stamp is hardy recognizable due to be out of focus but the damaged easily discernible on it, plus some 15 may 16 times the very same stamp, needless to say that I didn't bother going to the second page.
Whatever happen to the rule of no more that three alike stamps per page?
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Not certain that they should all be thrown out... I recently sold this copy of France 37 with a missing corner for $32.50. (less than 5 percent of catalog)
It allowed the new owner a chance to fill a hard to fill space at a reasonable cost.
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plus that tear on the bottom right, just left of P in Poste
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To each its own, I wouldn't have pay a dime for it and if for any reason it show up at my desk it would have been trash filler.
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I am relatively new to stamp collecting but I agree that virtually all damage should be noted. All holes no matter how small, tears, thins and creases except for the most minor.
It is fairly rare when any eBay seller notes anything but major faults. This irks me no end. But my personal policy is to look carefully at the images and if I get a stamp with undisclosed faults that I pay more than $5, I return almost without exception.
I also thought that stamps with big chunks missing should be trashed or burned but on another board, a guy posted that changed my mind. He indicated he could only afford very cheap stamps and that by buying ones with significant faults or damage, allowed him to fill holes with rarish stamps that he would never otherwise own. And he was entirely happy to look at such stamps. Well, I have looked at ugly stamps differently since then. 
I even bought one myself that I quite like! Image below. Kind of a tough stamp and I already had a pretty good one when I saw this. I could not help myself, I think paid
$32 and never feel bad about buying it.
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02:38:03pm
Your used stamp has 3 choices:
1) #72 No Grill(?) $600
2) #101 F Grill $2400
3) #111 No Grill hard white paper (special printing) $225 000
All prices are from my Scott 2010 Classic. Thanks to Greg I am lucky enough to have a nice copy of #72. If your stamp was lucky enough to be either of the other two then, even with the damage, I'd give you at least double what you paid!!! Just kidding - if it's either of those two KEEP IT! Even if it's #72 I think it's worth having, even with the damage. It survived this long, it would be a shame to throw it out. I think $32 was fair and, since you already have one, it's nice to have another in your collection. I'm assuming it is #72. By the way, since I only did a quick check, are there any other possibilities for the stamp?
Edit: I tend to stay away from damaged stamps unless the value is substantial. Something that's rare really does deserve to be salvaged and in a collection. Sometimes, if we get lucky, it can be upgraded - but still not thrown out. Cheaper damaged stamps should probably end up in "the circular file"!
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Well I had not even considered the others, I bought it as a 72 and it does not have a grill. So, I am pretty sure it is a 72! I think you covered all the possibilities but I did not really check my catalog 
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02:53:03pm
Funny thing, my Harris U.S. Liberty album doesn't have spaces for the series #102 - #111! I guess I'll have to insert a spare page.
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Missing arms. Toss it into the rubbish heap!
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Chipped, scratched....useless.
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Those that compare postage stamps with art will be sorely disappointed when they try to sell theirs stamps.
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"Case and point. Just went to the approval books and I see on the very first page that he very first stamp is hardy recognizable due to be out of focus but the damaged easily discernible on it, plus some 15 may 16 times the very same stamp, needless to say that I didn't bother going to the second page.
Whatever happen to the rule of no more that three alike stamps per page?"
Could not have said better. The moderators are just not doing their jobs, or maybe no one is actively moderating Approvals..
rrr...
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At a quick shuftie, the number of books listed in the month of May, so far, is approximately 154 Books.
Who has the time to spare to scrutinise,(with an intense scrute) 154 Books in 18 days??
At a minimum that's 15400 stamps, maybe even 27,600 stamps!!!!!!
Not me.................not you all...............not anyone that has a life!
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BTW, this lady moves a lot when I'm busy with my stamps.
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I agree that it would be a lot of work for just one person to do it, but what if as many members as we are we share the load? something like assign one country to those members that volunteer to review the approval books.
There's quite a difference on books presentation some of them are a delight to look at, others make you puke.
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Share the load sounds good BUT no two people have the same interpretation of "standards" never mind several folks. One maybe quite lenient another maybe a total "jobsworth".
"There can be only one."
Who is willing to take the flak when a member is approached and told his books are sub-standard remove them, after a member has taken time to make up a book.
One argument that will arise is that sellers pay extra, buyers do not.
That argument was raised within one week of people paying for membership on a quite trivial matter!
Yes quality and standards should be increased but encouragement should be used not the big stick.
To me a suitable response if a buyer has "damaged" goods on display is for the person that spots it could send the seller a polite appreciative message pointing out the "damaged" item.
Basically the possible improvement of "standards" are in each and every members own hands and actions.
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My attitude to damaged stamps depends on what it is. I would rather have a 'space-filler' than no stamp at all. If anyone has a 1913 Union of South Africa £1 with a missing corner please put it up in the auction. I missed out in the bidding on eBay for some very damaged copies recently.
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Ian you are soooo wrong.
"At a quick shuftie, the number of books listed in the month of May, so far, is approximately 154 Books.
Who has the time to spare to scrutinise,(with an intense scrute) 154 Books in 18 days??
At a minimum that's 15400 stamps, maybe even 27,600 stamps!!!!!!
Not me.................not you all...............not anyone that has a life!"
Total ignorance and wrong speculation, Ian.
I moderated Approvals for over 2 years at a time when no one knew anything about it. So problems abounded, as people discovered Approvals and erred because, due to its unique nature, they had no other frame of reference and did not know what to do. It took some time at first to moderate, and less and less over time.
Theresa followed me and she did a fabulous job. Michael did it too and he did a great job until he got overwhelmed by taking on too many responsibilities at SOR, and had no time, ...so he rewrote the current "suggestions"...and "rules" were technically gone. That is the key. You need a moderator who has the time and the desire to do it, and rules better defined.
Although moderating took some time, it was NOT more than a few minutes at a time per books, and this was the early days. Today there are around 10 new books a day, not more. But 8 out of the 10 do not requiring even a glance...and the sellers who do such a good job know who they are, and as a moderator, you know it too.
So it does not take much effort to weed out the few imperfect books, and work with their owners to correct the problems. I only ran once or twice with someone who was not interested in producing better books, or just did not have the skills to do it (Alzheimer being one issue).
Most issues are about sellers who miss a point, or interpret the rules differently than intended, when we had rules, or do not bother to read them. Bad books are few and were easily corrected. A moderator can easily tell where problems will arise and spend time on it, with a few specific sellers. It is not about policing. It is about teaching and encouraging and positive reinforcement
So you are just making excuses out of ignorance Ian. Or out of a philosophical reluctance to have anyone tamper with you sacred free market. Anarchy is also a free market consequence.
As a moderator you can ignore most books because most sellers do a good job, and you can tell immediately. You can quickly scan a book in minutes. The BAD books jump in your face loud and clear. Often it is due to ignorance or a mistake on the part of the seller. Or a minor infraction that is corrected in seconds, like a title, or lack of a numbers to id the stamps, or missing something etc...
For those few sellers who did not care a damn and could not bother, a threat of removing their books was enough. You did not have to ban them. Or they went elsewhere, and it was not a big loss.
Above all, what an active moderator can do is help shape better books, by having private suggestions and discussions with sellers.
If no one does it, the platform will have its gems, as well as more and more garbage, and nothing will change.
As Tony said, and I agree:
"There's quite a difference on books presentation some of them are a delight to look at, others make you puke."
rrr...
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03:08:55am
" ... Missing arms. Toss it into the rubbish heap! ...."
Venus de Milo was noted for her charms
But strictly between us
You're cuter than Venus
And what's more you've got arms!
Let's go cuddle in a corner
Any cozy little corner
Love is just around that corner
When I'm around you.
I'm ten times as faithful
As all your other men
They all may be true, to no one but you
But me I'm true to 10.
Aus der Bingle !
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rrraphy, rrraphy, rrraphy did you read my second post before you went off into your rant?
"To me a suitable response if a buyer has "damaged" goods on display is for the person that spots it could send the seller a polite appreciative message pointing out the "damaged" item."
Of course it is always easy to take the lazy way out by just moaning and groaning here on the discussion board rather than members spending a little bit of time sending a polite personal message to another member re their "damaged" items suggesting that they remove it and take a wee bit more care in future.
Members could also inform the management team with the details of the "offending" item and who the seller is.
If sufficient members supply that sort of information then maybe the management team will take the appropriate action and the quality of books will improve.
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Hi
It concerns me when I see people starting to assume that all approval sellers on Stamporama include substandard material in our books. Many of us pay close attention to the quality of what we list and don't want to be judged on some lowest common denominator base.
Because buyers cannot physically examine stamps in the approval books, I think the onus is on approval sellers to err on the side of caution when putting stamps up for sale. If you're unsure if a stamp would meet a high standard for quality, either don't include it or (for better items) carefully describe any potential shortcomings/faults. Don't just assume since you've listed damaged stamps at only 5c each or whatever that it's no big deal. It can be a very big deal to many buyers, and ultimately hurts us all. Either take the time to check your stamps before putting them up, or don't bother...
I have bought stamps from a number of approval sellers on Stamporama, and from my own experience there are a couple of sellers who I would no longer consider buying from. So, there's that. Loss of sales may offer a deterrent to thoughtful sellers.
Ultimately, approval books are not a place to get rid of your seconds (except maybe if of higher value and carefully described). Instead please bin them or put them in bulk lots to sell at your local club.
I'm not in favour of any sort of club regulation of the approval books, though. Rather, I think buyers should be voting with their wallets. If you've had a bad buying experience with certain Stamporama sellers, try some other sellers. I've picked up lots of excellent quality stamps for my collection from Stamporama approval sellers, and hope to continue to buy (and sell) for many years to come.
Eric
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Hi again
Forgot to mention - often the faults on stamps that I have received from careless sellers are hidden (thins, creases and the like) that are not visible on the scans. No amount of review by a moderator would pick up those types of problems.
Eric
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"Members could also inform the management team with the details of the "offending" item and who the seller is."
what a novel idea.
like if you copy and paste a URL or something? or ID a book? or......
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Just FYI, there's a buyer on Ebay who only buys spacefillers. There's a market for everything.
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Proving that P T Barnum was right!
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"like if you copy and paste a URL or something? or ID a book? or...... "
No simply send a PM with the following:-
Seller, Book Number, Page No, Item No., Reason.
eg, I have discovered this Approval Book fault:-
Brechinite, 208111, Page 3, Item 33, Damaged top LH Corner.
Then the management team will be able to take immediate action or collate the information, see who the consistant "offenders" are and be able to educate them.
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I understand those who prepare the approval books.
I am registered on a stamp exchange site.
When I make my list of available stamps I am not very attentive to their defects.
When another member asks me for stamps from this list, I check them carefully and let them know about defects (some members want them with a discount, some refuse and some accept)
I bought stamps of 1-5 cents in perfect condition and I can accept with defects (for study) but I prefer to be notified in advance.
It is difficult for sellers with hundreds, thousands of stamps in the approval books to mention for each stamp what is defective.
But I think it is necessary for every approval book with defective stamps (which cannot always be seen on the face of the stamp) a clearly written statement such as "stamps may be defective"
George
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in auctions, damaged stamps aren't allowed at all, unless they have CV of $5 or more. see:
"C8b. Single stamps and sets of stamps with a general catalog value of less than $5.00 USD that contain any or all of the defects described in Rule C8a may not be offered for sale in the auctions. Listings containing damaged stamps must include a catalog and/or reference value and cite the source and publication year of the quoted value in the item description. Failure to provide this information shall be a presumption that the item does not conform to this policy, and subject the item to removal from the auction."
in approvals, damaged stamps of any value may be included, but they must be identified as "damaged". see:
"B6. Stamps with defects must be identified by entering the word "Damaged" in the description. This includes repairs, thins, creases, pulled or torn perforations, scuffs, tears, stains, extraneous writing or markings in ink or marker (other than owner/authentication marks), etc. Defective items are not permitted in High Value ($$$) Books."
David, one of the auctioneers
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Speaking of which...
I was just about to put up a page of Netherlands from a collection I bought years ago. Before I did so, I removed any damaged stamps.
One stamp had a missing corner, so was heading for my Holocaust Stamps donation bin, but underneath the stamp was a notation "#32 $95. It is now listed at $105 so I'll put it into the Auction shortly at a very low price and we'll see where it goes.
Dave.
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Scott's Cat number is 33 not 32.
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Alot of stamps seen have what are described as "rounded" corners, generally from too much handling. The example Carol provides is truly a missing corner.. I'm not sure I could enjoy a stamp that messed up regardless of rarity or price. Of course everyone's threshold for pain is different.
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Thanks for the correction Tony. I must have seen a phantom missing corner on the bottom of the second 3 that made it look like a 2. Hope I got the price right.
Dave
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As someone who began collecting USA stamps at 3,5,and 8c, I initially took the decision to fill spaces even if there was a little damage to a stamp. when a better stamp came along, at an acceptable price, I would replace the damaged stamp. I now but mint stamps whenever possible and have to pay significantly more than 3c for them.
some time ago I criticised another member in these forums. That member then criticised the quality of some stamps I had on offer here at 5 cents each. I was contacted by the moderator who told me that, in his opinion, my offerings were in good order and criticism was unjustified However, I immediately withdrew all stamps I had for sale at the time, and decided I would no longer sell on this platform. Since then I haven't offered any stamps for sale, but I have continued to buy on SoR.
I haven't yet contacted any of the great sellers on SoR to criticise any stamp I've bought from them. I try wherever possible to send a message of thanks on safe receipt of my orders. So far,I've received wonderful service from every member whom I've bought any stamps from. Criticism from 1 contributor to these forums resulted in this member ceasing sales activity on here but to those sellers who continue offering excellent products at wonderful prices I think you do a fantastic job.
I believe the onus should be on the buyer to take reasonable precautions to ensure any stamp they buy is adequate for the price they pay before they pay for it. I agree wholeheartedly sellers should be under an obligation to notify buyers of any obvious defect for each stamp, which in most cases can be covered by decent quality scans.
After saying that, and purely to continue the discussion, I'd like to ask for opinions on the 2/-6d Seahorse, #222, currently in the Great Britain auction. Damage is clearly evident on the stamp, but the condition is described by as F+. If I collected those stamps and needed a space filler I might consider bidding for it, but not at the price of the minimum bid. What do other members think and how much do they think it's worth?
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gudgie said,
"I'd like to ask for opinions on the 2/-6d Seahorse, #222, currently in the Great Britain auction. Damage is clearly evident on the stamp"
I don't collect UK but I decided to see if I could even find the stamp indicated. Not too hard find but gudgie must have xray eyes. The image is small and low resolution. I might see some issue in the upper left corner, but I guess I just would not bid on anything that did not have better images. No image of the reverse either.
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Well, I have either gone totally blind or mad because I cannot see the Seahorse stamp in the Uk auction section.
Would someone please point me in the right direction? Or has it been removed already.
EDIT.
Ok found it, had my lists set to Paypal only so seller was excluded from search results.
Yes Gudgie it does have a chunk out of the corner.
But Scotts grading is relevant to centering not condition, so the Fine grade is correct. However the fact that it is then followed by an abbreviation "Cond" is incorrect.
And no I would not pay more than 20 cents for this particular stamp with a chunk missing.
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I sent the seller a message asking him to ID the damage, as per our rules.
Everyone has their own tolerance for damage and discounts they'd need to allow for a purchase. I'd say this was more significant than a pulled perf.
And, as others have noted, F describes centering, not condition
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I got curious about this stamp, actually there are three stamps alike with same perfs. and watermark seems like the only difference is the tone of brown color, I don't know if my scanner is up to par but I do have all three on them and when side by side the color difference is obvious, what Scott calls light brown is almost redish brown, stamp at right.
If someone has a better way to tell them apart, please do tell.
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There were 4 printings of these stamps
In 1913 they were printed by Waterlow Bros & Layton
In 1915 they were printed by De La Rue & Co
In 1918 they were printed by Bradbury, Wilkinson & Co Ltd.
Sorry but as per usual the bit that you need to copy is right on the edge of the left hand of the page.
The fourth printing of this stamp was in in 1934, The re-engraved version.
The first three printings the lines around the Kings head are horizontal. In the re-engraved printing the lines are horizontal and diagonal.
I must point out that these stamps were mostly used on parcels and most parcels were wrapped in brown paper and even tar paper so when these stamps were soaked off the parcels the colour of the stamps could be affected.
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08:27:00pm
A short tutorial on Great Britain Seahorse issues
Roy
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Harvey, my take on the missing corners is identical to yours - it is a serious fault and if I have a stamp with a missing corner I want to replace it with a good one as soon as I can.
"Forgot to mention - often the faults on stamps that I have received from careless sellers are hidden"
Yes, Eric, this is what I see too and it bothers me to some extent, particularly the clearly visible from the back thins or tears. Even under the best of our efforts to inspect a stamp from the front, sometimes about 10% of the stamps may still turn out to be faulty. But then every now and then I get a good stamp at a low price, which make up for the damaged ones.
If sellers were to use only black pages for background, had the pages scanned on a decent scanner and if they arranged stamps in a way where all perforations are visible - no part of the stamp is outside the scan or covered by another stamp or piece of paper, we could tell the faults much easier.
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07:40:20pm
There are a couple sellers who routinely overlap stamps or/and show blurred images. It is almost impossible to see faults and I think we should all refuse to buy from these sellers unless they clean up their act. I'm tempted to name names right here but that would probably not go over well!! It's still tempting 
.
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"It is almost impossible to see faults"
If rules were followed, we wouldn't need to be looking for the faults in the scans. Stamps will either be in good condition, or the fault will be described.
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and when the auctioneers are alerted to broken rules and missing corners, we act.
The auctioneers are Antonio (Smauggie), Randy (Musicman), and me (AMSD). You may (and really should) contact one of us when a problem arises.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
18 May 2021
09:58:33am
I notice with quite a few stamps offered on various on line sites you see a lot of stamps with missing corners and there is no mention of damage. As you know, sometimes there is a little piece in the corner where perforations tend to meet. This piece is quite fragile and is very often missing. Am I right in assuming this is a fairly serious fault and should be mentioned as such? I have a few like this myself but I usually try to replace them if possible. Comments please!
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re: what about missing corners?
yes, it should be mentioned (and an illustration showing us couldn't hurt either).
in essence, any degradation from a pristine copy should be mentioned, and described.
presumably what you are describing is a "pulled perf(s)"; some people care, others don't; most will want a discount from the going price for any damage(s) the stamp has.
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re: what about missing corners?
I used to be very active on approvals but lately I stay away for the simple reason that
there are so many damaged stamps that is not funny anymore, I can understand a lite thin
or small creased but please stamps with missing chunks? and I don't mean just corners but
stamps so badly damaged the they hurt your eyesight. I don't think that people that display
these kind of stamps would like to have them in their collection so what makes them think that someone else will?
I do have a small trash can next to my desk and every time a damaged stamps shows up that's where it goes. Please, please, please do not post damaged stamps on the approval books or auction pages. Thank you very much.
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re: what about missing corners?
Case and point. Just went to the approval books and I see on the very first page that he very first stamp is hardy recognizable due to be out of focus but the damaged easily discernible on it, plus some 15 may 16 times the very same stamp, needless to say that I didn't bother going to the second page.
Whatever happen to the rule of no more that three alike stamps per page?
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01:11:27pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
Not certain that they should all be thrown out... I recently sold this copy of France 37 with a missing corner for $32.50. (less than 5 percent of catalog)
It allowed the new owner a chance to fill a hard to fill space at a reasonable cost.
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re: what about missing corners?
plus that tear on the bottom right, just left of P in Poste
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re: what about missing corners?
To each its own, I wouldn't have pay a dime for it and if for any reason it show up at my desk it would have been trash filler.
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re: what about missing corners?
I am relatively new to stamp collecting but I agree that virtually all damage should be noted. All holes no matter how small, tears, thins and creases except for the most minor.
It is fairly rare when any eBay seller notes anything but major faults. This irks me no end. But my personal policy is to look carefully at the images and if I get a stamp with undisclosed faults that I pay more than $5, I return almost without exception.
I also thought that stamps with big chunks missing should be trashed or burned but on another board, a guy posted that changed my mind. He indicated he could only afford very cheap stamps and that by buying ones with significant faults or damage, allowed him to fill holes with rarish stamps that he would never otherwise own. And he was entirely happy to look at such stamps. Well, I have looked at ugly stamps differently since then. I even bought one myself that I quite like! Image below. Kind of a tough stamp and I already had a pretty good one when I saw this. I could not help myself, I think paid
$32 and never feel bad about buying it.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
18 May 2021
02:38:03pm
re: what about missing corners?
Your used stamp has 3 choices:
1) #72 No Grill(?) $600
2) #101 F Grill $2400
3) #111 No Grill hard white paper (special printing) $225 000
All prices are from my Scott 2010 Classic. Thanks to Greg I am lucky enough to have a nice copy of #72. If your stamp was lucky enough to be either of the other two then, even with the damage, I'd give you at least double what you paid!!! Just kidding - if it's either of those two KEEP IT! Even if it's #72 I think it's worth having, even with the damage. It survived this long, it would be a shame to throw it out. I think $32 was fair and, since you already have one, it's nice to have another in your collection. I'm assuming it is #72. By the way, since I only did a quick check, are there any other possibilities for the stamp?
Edit: I tend to stay away from damaged stamps unless the value is substantial. Something that's rare really does deserve to be salvaged and in a collection. Sometimes, if we get lucky, it can be upgraded - but still not thrown out. Cheaper damaged stamps should probably end up in "the circular file"!
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re: what about missing corners?
Well I had not even considered the others, I bought it as a 72 and it does not have a grill. So, I am pretty sure it is a 72! I think you covered all the possibilities but I did not really check my catalog
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
18 May 2021
02:53:03pm
re: what about missing corners?
Funny thing, my Harris U.S. Liberty album doesn't have spaces for the series #102 - #111! I guess I'll have to insert a spare page.
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re: what about missing corners?
Missing arms. Toss it into the rubbish heap!
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re: what about missing corners?
Chipped, scratched....useless.
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re: what about missing corners?
Those that compare postage stamps with art will be sorely disappointed when they try to sell theirs stamps.
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Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
"Case and point. Just went to the approval books and I see on the very first page that he very first stamp is hardy recognizable due to be out of focus but the damaged easily discernible on it, plus some 15 may 16 times the very same stamp, needless to say that I didn't bother going to the second page.
Whatever happen to the rule of no more that three alike stamps per page?"
Could not have said better. The moderators are just not doing their jobs, or maybe no one is actively moderating Approvals..
rrr...
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07:18:38pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
At a quick shuftie, the number of books listed in the month of May, so far, is approximately 154 Books.
Who has the time to spare to scrutinise,(with an intense scrute) 154 Books in 18 days??
At a minimum that's 15400 stamps, maybe even 27,600 stamps!!!!!!
Not me.................not you all...............not anyone that has a life!
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re: what about missing corners?
BTW, this lady moves a lot when I'm busy with my stamps.
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re: what about missing corners?
I agree that it would be a lot of work for just one person to do it, but what if as many members as we are we share the load? something like assign one country to those members that volunteer to review the approval books.
There's quite a difference on books presentation some of them are a delight to look at, others make you puke.
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09:02:06pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
Share the load sounds good BUT no two people have the same interpretation of "standards" never mind several folks. One maybe quite lenient another maybe a total "jobsworth".
"There can be only one."
Who is willing to take the flak when a member is approached and told his books are sub-standard remove them, after a member has taken time to make up a book.
One argument that will arise is that sellers pay extra, buyers do not.
That argument was raised within one week of people paying for membership on a quite trivial matter!
Yes quality and standards should be increased but encouragement should be used not the big stick.
To me a suitable response if a buyer has "damaged" goods on display is for the person that spots it could send the seller a polite appreciative message pointing out the "damaged" item.
Basically the possible improvement of "standards" are in each and every members own hands and actions.
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re: what about missing corners?
My attitude to damaged stamps depends on what it is. I would rather have a 'space-filler' than no stamp at all. If anyone has a 1913 Union of South Africa £1 with a missing corner please put it up in the auction. I missed out in the bidding on eBay for some very damaged copies recently.
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Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
Ian you are soooo wrong.
"At a quick shuftie, the number of books listed in the month of May, so far, is approximately 154 Books.
Who has the time to spare to scrutinise,(with an intense scrute) 154 Books in 18 days??
At a minimum that's 15400 stamps, maybe even 27,600 stamps!!!!!!
Not me.................not you all...............not anyone that has a life!"
Total ignorance and wrong speculation, Ian.
I moderated Approvals for over 2 years at a time when no one knew anything about it. So problems abounded, as people discovered Approvals and erred because, due to its unique nature, they had no other frame of reference and did not know what to do. It took some time at first to moderate, and less and less over time.
Theresa followed me and she did a fabulous job. Michael did it too and he did a great job until he got overwhelmed by taking on too many responsibilities at SOR, and had no time, ...so he rewrote the current "suggestions"...and "rules" were technically gone. That is the key. You need a moderator who has the time and the desire to do it, and rules better defined.
Although moderating took some time, it was NOT more than a few minutes at a time per books, and this was the early days. Today there are around 10 new books a day, not more. But 8 out of the 10 do not requiring even a glance...and the sellers who do such a good job know who they are, and as a moderator, you know it too.
So it does not take much effort to weed out the few imperfect books, and work with their owners to correct the problems. I only ran once or twice with someone who was not interested in producing better books, or just did not have the skills to do it (Alzheimer being one issue).
Most issues are about sellers who miss a point, or interpret the rules differently than intended, when we had rules, or do not bother to read them. Bad books are few and were easily corrected. A moderator can easily tell where problems will arise and spend time on it, with a few specific sellers. It is not about policing. It is about teaching and encouraging and positive reinforcement
So you are just making excuses out of ignorance Ian. Or out of a philosophical reluctance to have anyone tamper with you sacred free market. Anarchy is also a free market consequence.
As a moderator you can ignore most books because most sellers do a good job, and you can tell immediately. You can quickly scan a book in minutes. The BAD books jump in your face loud and clear. Often it is due to ignorance or a mistake on the part of the seller. Or a minor infraction that is corrected in seconds, like a title, or lack of a numbers to id the stamps, or missing something etc...
For those few sellers who did not care a damn and could not bother, a threat of removing their books was enough. You did not have to ban them. Or they went elsewhere, and it was not a big loss.
Above all, what an active moderator can do is help shape better books, by having private suggestions and discussions with sellers.
If no one does it, the platform will have its gems, as well as more and more garbage, and nothing will change.
As Tony said, and I agree:
"There's quite a difference on books presentation some of them are a delight to look at, others make you puke."
rrr...
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 May 2021
03:08:55am
re: what about missing corners?
" ... Missing arms. Toss it into the rubbish heap! ...."
Venus de Milo was noted for her charms
But strictly between us
You're cuter than Venus
And what's more you've got arms!
Let's go cuddle in a corner
Any cozy little corner
Love is just around that corner
When I'm around you.
I'm ten times as faithful
As all your other men
They all may be true, to no one but you
But me I'm true to 10.
Aus der Bingle !
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05:37:31am
Auctions - Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
rrraphy, rrraphy, rrraphy did you read my second post before you went off into your rant?
"To me a suitable response if a buyer has "damaged" goods on display is for the person that spots it could send the seller a polite appreciative message pointing out the "damaged" item."
Of course it is always easy to take the lazy way out by just moaning and groaning here on the discussion board rather than members spending a little bit of time sending a polite personal message to another member re their "damaged" items suggesting that they remove it and take a wee bit more care in future.
Members could also inform the management team with the details of the "offending" item and who the seller is.
If sufficient members supply that sort of information then maybe the management team will take the appropriate action and the quality of books will improve.
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08:18:46am
re: what about missing corners?
Hi
It concerns me when I see people starting to assume that all approval sellers on Stamporama include substandard material in our books. Many of us pay close attention to the quality of what we list and don't want to be judged on some lowest common denominator base.
Because buyers cannot physically examine stamps in the approval books, I think the onus is on approval sellers to err on the side of caution when putting stamps up for sale. If you're unsure if a stamp would meet a high standard for quality, either don't include it or (for better items) carefully describe any potential shortcomings/faults. Don't just assume since you've listed damaged stamps at only 5c each or whatever that it's no big deal. It can be a very big deal to many buyers, and ultimately hurts us all. Either take the time to check your stamps before putting them up, or don't bother...
I have bought stamps from a number of approval sellers on Stamporama, and from my own experience there are a couple of sellers who I would no longer consider buying from. So, there's that. Loss of sales may offer a deterrent to thoughtful sellers.
Ultimately, approval books are not a place to get rid of your seconds (except maybe if of higher value and carefully described). Instead please bin them or put them in bulk lots to sell at your local club.
I'm not in favour of any sort of club regulation of the approval books, though. Rather, I think buyers should be voting with their wallets. If you've had a bad buying experience with certain Stamporama sellers, try some other sellers. I've picked up lots of excellent quality stamps for my collection from Stamporama approval sellers, and hope to continue to buy (and sell) for many years to come.
Eric
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08:21:02am
re: what about missing corners?
Hi again
Forgot to mention - often the faults on stamps that I have received from careless sellers are hidden (thins, creases and the like) that are not visible on the scans. No amount of review by a moderator would pick up those types of problems.
Eric
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re: what about missing corners?
"Members could also inform the management team with the details of the "offending" item and who the seller is."
what a novel idea.
like if you copy and paste a URL or something? or ID a book? or......
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re: what about missing corners?
Just FYI, there's a buyer on Ebay who only buys spacefillers. There's a market for everything.
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re: what about missing corners?
Proving that P T Barnum was right!
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02:19:08pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
"like if you copy and paste a URL or something? or ID a book? or...... "
No simply send a PM with the following:-
Seller, Book Number, Page No, Item No., Reason.
eg, I have discovered this Approval Book fault:-
Brechinite, 208111, Page 3, Item 33, Damaged top LH Corner.
Then the management team will be able to take immediate action or collate the information, see who the consistant "offenders" are and be able to educate them.
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12:47:40am
re: what about missing corners?
I understand those who prepare the approval books.
I am registered on a stamp exchange site.
When I make my list of available stamps I am not very attentive to their defects.
When another member asks me for stamps from this list, I check them carefully and let them know about defects (some members want them with a discount, some refuse and some accept)
I bought stamps of 1-5 cents in perfect condition and I can accept with defects (for study) but I prefer to be notified in advance.
It is difficult for sellers with hundreds, thousands of stamps in the approval books to mention for each stamp what is defective.
But I think it is necessary for every approval book with defective stamps (which cannot always be seen on the face of the stamp) a clearly written statement such as "stamps may be defective"
George
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re: what about missing corners?
in auctions, damaged stamps aren't allowed at all, unless they have CV of $5 or more. see:
"C8b. Single stamps and sets of stamps with a general catalog value of less than $5.00 USD that contain any or all of the defects described in Rule C8a may not be offered for sale in the auctions. Listings containing damaged stamps must include a catalog and/or reference value and cite the source and publication year of the quoted value in the item description. Failure to provide this information shall be a presumption that the item does not conform to this policy, and subject the item to removal from the auction."
in approvals, damaged stamps of any value may be included, but they must be identified as "damaged". see:
"B6. Stamps with defects must be identified by entering the word "Damaged" in the description. This includes repairs, thins, creases, pulled or torn perforations, scuffs, tears, stains, extraneous writing or markings in ink or marker (other than owner/authentication marks), etc. Defective items are not permitted in High Value ($$$) Books."
David, one of the auctioneers
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09:41:34pm
re: what about missing corners?
Speaking of which...
I was just about to put up a page of Netherlands from a collection I bought years ago. Before I did so, I removed any damaged stamps.
One stamp had a missing corner, so was heading for my Holocaust Stamps donation bin, but underneath the stamp was a notation "#32 $95. It is now listed at $105 so I'll put it into the Auction shortly at a very low price and we'll see where it goes.
Dave.
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re: what about missing corners?
Scott's Cat number is 33 not 32.
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06:47:18am
re: what about missing corners?
Alot of stamps seen have what are described as "rounded" corners, generally from too much handling. The example Carol provides is truly a missing corner.. I'm not sure I could enjoy a stamp that messed up regardless of rarity or price. Of course everyone's threshold for pain is different.
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07:18:55am
re: what about missing corners?
Thanks for the correction Tony. I must have seen a phantom missing corner on the bottom of the second 3 that made it look like a 2. Hope I got the price right.
Dave
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06:55:02pm
re: what about missing corners?
As someone who began collecting USA stamps at 3,5,and 8c, I initially took the decision to fill spaces even if there was a little damage to a stamp. when a better stamp came along, at an acceptable price, I would replace the damaged stamp. I now but mint stamps whenever possible and have to pay significantly more than 3c for them.
some time ago I criticised another member in these forums. That member then criticised the quality of some stamps I had on offer here at 5 cents each. I was contacted by the moderator who told me that, in his opinion, my offerings were in good order and criticism was unjustified However, I immediately withdrew all stamps I had for sale at the time, and decided I would no longer sell on this platform. Since then I haven't offered any stamps for sale, but I have continued to buy on SoR.
I haven't yet contacted any of the great sellers on SoR to criticise any stamp I've bought from them. I try wherever possible to send a message of thanks on safe receipt of my orders. So far,I've received wonderful service from every member whom I've bought any stamps from. Criticism from 1 contributor to these forums resulted in this member ceasing sales activity on here but to those sellers who continue offering excellent products at wonderful prices I think you do a fantastic job.
I believe the onus should be on the buyer to take reasonable precautions to ensure any stamp they buy is adequate for the price they pay before they pay for it. I agree wholeheartedly sellers should be under an obligation to notify buyers of any obvious defect for each stamp, which in most cases can be covered by decent quality scans.
After saying that, and purely to continue the discussion, I'd like to ask for opinions on the 2/-6d Seahorse, #222, currently in the Great Britain auction. Damage is clearly evident on the stamp, but the condition is described by as F+. If I collected those stamps and needed a space filler I might consider bidding for it, but not at the price of the minimum bid. What do other members think and how much do they think it's worth?
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re: what about missing corners?
gudgie said,
"I'd like to ask for opinions on the 2/-6d Seahorse, #222, currently in the Great Britain auction. Damage is clearly evident on the stamp"
I don't collect UK but I decided to see if I could even find the stamp indicated. Not too hard find but gudgie must have xray eyes. The image is small and low resolution. I might see some issue in the upper left corner, but I guess I just would not bid on anything that did not have better images. No image of the reverse either.
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Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
Well, I have either gone totally blind or mad because I cannot see the Seahorse stamp in the Uk auction section.
Would someone please point me in the right direction? Or has it been removed already.
EDIT.
Ok found it, had my lists set to Paypal only so seller was excluded from search results.
Yes Gudgie it does have a chunk out of the corner.
But Scotts grading is relevant to centering not condition, so the Fine grade is correct. However the fact that it is then followed by an abbreviation "Cond" is incorrect.
And no I would not pay more than 20 cents for this particular stamp with a chunk missing.
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re: what about missing corners?
I sent the seller a message asking him to ID the damage, as per our rules.
Everyone has their own tolerance for damage and discounts they'd need to allow for a purchase. I'd say this was more significant than a pulled perf.
And, as others have noted, F describes centering, not condition
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re: what about missing corners?
I got curious about this stamp, actually there are three stamps alike with same perfs. and watermark seems like the only difference is the tone of brown color, I don't know if my scanner is up to par but I do have all three on them and when side by side the color difference is obvious, what Scott calls light brown is almost redish brown, stamp at right.
If someone has a better way to tell them apart, please do tell.
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03:51:23pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: what about missing corners?
There were 4 printings of these stamps
In 1913 they were printed by Waterlow Bros & Layton
In 1915 they were printed by De La Rue & Co
In 1918 they were printed by Bradbury, Wilkinson & Co Ltd.
Sorry but as per usual the bit that you need to copy is right on the edge of the left hand of the page.
The fourth printing of this stamp was in in 1934, The re-engraved version.
The first three printings the lines around the Kings head are horizontal. In the re-engraved printing the lines are horizontal and diagonal.
I must point out that these stamps were mostly used on parcels and most parcels were wrapped in brown paper and even tar paper so when these stamps were soaked off the parcels the colour of the stamps could be affected.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
24 May 2021
08:27:00pm
re: what about missing corners?
A short tutorial on Great Britain Seahorse issues
Roy
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re: what about missing corners?
Harvey, my take on the missing corners is identical to yours - it is a serious fault and if I have a stamp with a missing corner I want to replace it with a good one as soon as I can.
"Forgot to mention - often the faults on stamps that I have received from careless sellers are hidden"
Yes, Eric, this is what I see too and it bothers me to some extent, particularly the clearly visible from the back thins or tears. Even under the best of our efforts to inspect a stamp from the front, sometimes about 10% of the stamps may still turn out to be faulty. But then every now and then I get a good stamp at a low price, which make up for the damaged ones.
If sellers were to use only black pages for background, had the pages scanned on a decent scanner and if they arranged stamps in a way where all perforations are visible - no part of the stamp is outside the scan or covered by another stamp or piece of paper, we could tell the faults much easier.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
25 May 2021
07:40:20pm
re: what about missing corners?
There are a couple sellers who routinely overlap stamps or/and show blurred images. It is almost impossible to see faults and I think we should all refuse to buy from these sellers unless they clean up their act. I'm tempted to name names right here but that would probably not go over well!! It's still tempting .
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re: what about missing corners?
"It is almost impossible to see faults"
If rules were followed, we wouldn't need to be looking for the faults in the scans. Stamps will either be in good condition, or the fault will be described.
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re: what about missing corners?
and when the auctioneers are alerted to broken rules and missing corners, we act.
The auctioneers are Antonio (Smauggie), Randy (Musicman), and me (AMSD). You may (and really should) contact one of us when a problem arises.
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