Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
So I ask myself what are they paying people for their collecti
ns? 
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To answer your question.
It all depends on what, where and price.
What relies on whether it is a single country collection, or a couple of stockbooks/albums or a box full of several collections/albums/mxtures/first day covers etc.
Where relies on whether it is a stamp only auction, a general auction, whether it is online or an auction house or an individual wanting to sell.
Price is down to what the buyer determines is the price they are willing to pay and whether they can see a profit in it.
I mostly buy mixed boxes. Initially for my own collection and the remainders are sold here or a box is made up and placed into the hands of my local auction house for sale.
Basically it is "guesswork"!!
But a lot of fun!!
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I recently bought a world collection in 75 stockbooks for $4,000 (so average $53 each). This is how sellers can sell items like the Jersey collection so cheap.
If you have enough experience, you can appraise a collection in a few minutes.
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i have heard 4% CV as the amount a dealer needs to cap his purchases to make it worth his time. I am sure that doesn't count US C3as or Z grills
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10:15:50am
I think (hope!) it depends on the collection. I occasionally get asked to look at "dad's or grampa's stamp collections" and usually there is very little there. But if you have a well established stamp collection that someone has spend much $$$ and time on it would, or should, be a different matter. I have no family, so when I die, and we all do at some point, my collection goes to my dealer. He knows it well because I have bought at least half of it from him and his father in the 50+ years I have been collecting. I trust him to give a fair price to the estate since it all goes to charity. He will do more than a couple minute scan and will offer more than 4%!! You have to trust the dealer to be fair but you have to know the dealer well, don't have it thrown into the lap of an executor that you have never met. If you're worried you should start planning now and if you have a valuable collection have it looked at now and try to get something in writing!!
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There was a stamp dealer in our club long ago..he told me he paid 17% of catalog for country collections...i imagine world wide collections would be in the 10% to 12 % of catalog. Of course kiddie collections would have zero value. What would we expect ..if we had a lifetime of enjoyment from our stamps would we expect 50 percent of catalog ????
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The estimate of 10% to 20% of retail value seems about correct to me. But that depends greatly upon who you are dealing with. Particularly if it is a brick and mortar shop and you are fortunate enough to have long time rep-or established then that will make all the difference in the world. At least that has been my experience.
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I will add to Ian’s list WHEN
Case in point: I picked up a real bargain of a collection after a dealer had purchased a huge collection ($20,000) he said and was interested in incorporating only some in his stock and wanted to cash out rapidly the rest. Getting quick cash was his goal.
I don't think he even looked inside some of the volumes he did not plan to keep. His purchase was strictly based on what he needed, and the rest was extra. I must say some if the volumes were not mainstream.
I still paid $200 for the album, pages and stamps, but just on page 1 there already were a couple of gems in the high 3 digit catalog range!
We all have also experienced the last day of major shows where dealers will cut prices on leftover items, rather than pack them to take back. Helps if you are looking for collections that are in areas less collected.
Rrr
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01:47:24pm
I don't sell so I can only comment from a buyers point of view. About 3 years ago an E-Bay dealer I buy from advertised a huge Russia lot in a Minkus album, the same as I use. He showed every page and he had some great stuff. If memory serves he was asking almost $3000 and I needed about half of what he had, so I offered half of what he was asking. I thought he would refuse but luckily he accepted. When I had put them in my album I did a rough calculation and figured I had at least $8000 CV worth of Russia stamps and came close to doubling my collection. That works out to me paying about 19% CV. I was, and still am, very happy with that. It was a lot of money, but in my opinion I did well. I have only spent more than that one time and that was to pick up a bunch of wonderful US material. I know spending this kind of money on a hobby sounds really dumb to most people, but it gives me pleasure, so why not!!
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I love to hear about all the bargains people are lucky enough to buy.
But
What about the silly and overpaid "bargains" that we have all bought at one time or another?
The albums where all the stamps were "hinged" by sellotape, or 95% of the stamps were foxed.
Or the stockbook that had a "rare" stamp in it and you bought it at a great price that turned out to be a forgery or had more thins than good paper!
Or the First Day Cover collections that you couldn't give away!!
Or the auction lots you bought blind just so you had something to take home.
Or the worst of all buying a mixed box that YOU had put in an auction a couple of years or months before!!
As I said earlier "A lot of fun"?
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I remember times when you would pay double or 3 times to that what is offered now, This doesn´t include classical material. I have no problem paying less, I like that way, but I mean the dealer has to make money as well.
I don´t have an up to date catalog for Jersey so I looked at Stampworld and came to a value of just under 500€ not including the booklets, I´m happy. My guess is that I payed under 5% of catalog value. Here a couple of pages.
]
..
.....
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When you consider that collectors refuse to pay catalogue value for stamps, collections are coming onto the market en masse, collections are full of common stamps that current collectors mostly have, dealer's today buy to quickly turn the collection purchase into a small profit rather than try to sell stamp-by-stamp, then the buying prices for collections are greatly depressed.
In the same vein, collectors can obtain collections at big discounts from meaningless catalogue values. Selling of individual, common stamps is being relegated to collectors, part time dealers, and dealers without brick and mortar stores to do the work for the most part, and on the internet.
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06:51:45am
" ... Or the auction lots you bought blind
just so you had something to take home. ..."
Blind ?
Really ?
Somehow, I have trouble imagining you bidding
blind on lots lots you bought "just so you
had something to take home," Ian
Yes, that would be a notable day.
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Charlie,
Yup! I have done that more than once.
Aye I've regretted it on ocassion but also been quite pleased with the result!
You have to live on the edge now and again.
After all its only money!!
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You live, you learn!
Awhile back when I was first trying to get my USA collection in order, I saw a lot on eBay that had a Scott Minuteman album. It looked like my album from my teens. Most of the cheap stamps, none of the better ones! The provided scans of album pages showed all the mint stamps in mounts. So I placed a low bid on it, and was surprised I won!
When I received it, I instantly knew why! Sure, all the mint stamps were in mounts... but this must've been this kid's third album because they all had multiple massive hinge marks on them! Awful! The guy selling it no doubt knew about it... after all I discovered it in a few minutes.. and neglected to make any mention of it.
So I pulled all of these stamps out of the album, and added up that I paid less than face for them, so I used them all for postage. Still, I got a nice old album for free.
The second time I had an issue was when I bought an entire set of plate blocks for the 1940 Famous Americans. All the blocks appeared to be in mounts. AND they were all on very nice Minkus pages. It comes in the mail and I was horrified. Mounts? No, someone had cut up old clear page protectors and scotch taped three sides of them! Then scotch taped it into the album. Each album page had tape bleed through on the reverse side. And a fair number of the plate blocks had tape bleed through on the perforations in the corners of the improvised mounts. And many of them had self fused to the back of these as they gassed out.
I went back and looked at the auction... photos artfully taken at angles that didn't show the damage...
I contacted the dealer and he argued! He told "it wasn't that bad" and "I got a deal on them so what if they were damaged?" He only agreed to take them back when I promised to do a Paypal dispute. I mailed them back, made sure I insured and had tracking on the package... not trusting the creep. He then reversed my Paypal charge. AND I got stuck for the $7 postage!
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Aye! Scans and photos can cover a multitude of sins.
I'm lucky enough to have several auction houses that I can visit and can physically examine lots before I decide to buy or not.
I cannot examine every lot within the nominated viewing time so a careful study of their catalogue beforehand is a must.
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" "I got a deal on them so what if they were damaged?""
I believe that is a common frame of mind for alot of sellers. If the damage wasn't described, then that attitude is nothing more than fraud.
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A trip to my local stamp Dealer on Friday to pick-up a few Album pages was as always when I go there. I buy what I need and end up buying things I don´t collect. Looking through several of his Albums I found a Jersey collection, 1969-1988 MNH. The collection included all the postage dues as well as several booklets and prestige booklets. I asked him how much he wanted for the Album. His reply was 50 €. Naturally I said sold!
So I ask myself what are they paying people for their collectins?
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05:33:35am
Auctions - Approvals
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
To answer your question.
It all depends on what, where and price.
What relies on whether it is a single country collection, or a couple of stockbooks/albums or a box full of several collections/albums/mxtures/first day covers etc.
Where relies on whether it is a stamp only auction, a general auction, whether it is online or an auction house or an individual wanting to sell.
Price is down to what the buyer determines is the price they are willing to pay and whether they can see a profit in it.
I mostly buy mixed boxes. Initially for my own collection and the remainders are sold here or a box is made up and placed into the hands of my local auction house for sale.
Basically it is "guesswork"!!
But a lot of fun!!
Login to Like
this post
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
I recently bought a world collection in 75 stockbooks for $4,000 (so average $53 each). This is how sellers can sell items like the Jersey collection so cheap.
If you have enough experience, you can appraise a collection in a few minutes.
Login to Like
this post
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
i have heard 4% CV as the amount a dealer needs to cap his purchases to make it worth his time. I am sure that doesn't count US C3as or Z grills
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Oct 2021
10:15:50am
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
I think (hope!) it depends on the collection. I occasionally get asked to look at "dad's or grampa's stamp collections" and usually there is very little there. But if you have a well established stamp collection that someone has spend much $$$ and time on it would, or should, be a different matter. I have no family, so when I die, and we all do at some point, my collection goes to my dealer. He knows it well because I have bought at least half of it from him and his father in the 50+ years I have been collecting. I trust him to give a fair price to the estate since it all goes to charity. He will do more than a couple minute scan and will offer more than 4%!! You have to trust the dealer to be fair but you have to know the dealer well, don't have it thrown into the lap of an executor that you have never met. If you're worried you should start planning now and if you have a valuable collection have it looked at now and try to get something in writing!!
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
There was a stamp dealer in our club long ago..he told me he paid 17% of catalog for country collections...i imagine world wide collections would be in the 10% to 12 % of catalog. Of course kiddie collections would have zero value. What would we expect ..if we had a lifetime of enjoyment from our stamps would we expect 50 percent of catalog ????
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11:36:41am
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
The estimate of 10% to 20% of retail value seems about correct to me. But that depends greatly upon who you are dealing with. Particularly if it is a brick and mortar shop and you are fortunate enough to have long time rep-or established then that will make all the difference in the world. At least that has been my experience.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
I will add to Ian’s list WHEN
Case in point: I picked up a real bargain of a collection after a dealer had purchased a huge collection ($20,000) he said and was interested in incorporating only some in his stock and wanted to cash out rapidly the rest. Getting quick cash was his goal.
I don't think he even looked inside some of the volumes he did not plan to keep. His purchase was strictly based on what he needed, and the rest was extra. I must say some if the volumes were not mainstream.
I still paid $200 for the album, pages and stamps, but just on page 1 there already were a couple of gems in the high 3 digit catalog range!
We all have also experienced the last day of major shows where dealers will cut prices on leftover items, rather than pack them to take back. Helps if you are looking for collections that are in areas less collected.
Rrr
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Oct 2021
01:47:24pm
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
I don't sell so I can only comment from a buyers point of view. About 3 years ago an E-Bay dealer I buy from advertised a huge Russia lot in a Minkus album, the same as I use. He showed every page and he had some great stuff. If memory serves he was asking almost $3000 and I needed about half of what he had, so I offered half of what he was asking. I thought he would refuse but luckily he accepted. When I had put them in my album I did a rough calculation and figured I had at least $8000 CV worth of Russia stamps and came close to doubling my collection. That works out to me paying about 19% CV. I was, and still am, very happy with that. It was a lot of money, but in my opinion I did well. I have only spent more than that one time and that was to pick up a bunch of wonderful US material. I know spending this kind of money on a hobby sounds really dumb to most people, but it gives me pleasure, so why not!!
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06:08:30pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
I love to hear about all the bargains people are lucky enough to buy.
But
What about the silly and overpaid "bargains" that we have all bought at one time or another?
The albums where all the stamps were "hinged" by sellotape, or 95% of the stamps were foxed.
Or the stockbook that had a "rare" stamp in it and you bought it at a great price that turned out to be a forgery or had more thins than good paper!
Or the First Day Cover collections that you couldn't give away!!
Or the auction lots you bought blind just so you had something to take home.
Or the worst of all buying a mixed box that YOU had put in an auction a couple of years or months before!!
As I said earlier "A lot of fun"?
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re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
I remember times when you would pay double or 3 times to that what is offered now, This doesn´t include classical material. I have no problem paying less, I like that way, but I mean the dealer has to make money as well.
I don´t have an up to date catalog for Jersey so I looked at Stampworld and came to a value of just under 500€ not including the booklets, I´m happy. My guess is that I payed under 5% of catalog value. Here a couple of pages.].......
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09:41:15pm
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
When you consider that collectors refuse to pay catalogue value for stamps, collections are coming onto the market en masse, collections are full of common stamps that current collectors mostly have, dealer's today buy to quickly turn the collection purchase into a small profit rather than try to sell stamp-by-stamp, then the buying prices for collections are greatly depressed.
In the same vein, collectors can obtain collections at big discounts from meaningless catalogue values. Selling of individual, common stamps is being relegated to collectors, part time dealers, and dealers without brick and mortar stores to do the work for the most part, and on the internet.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Oct 2021
06:51:45am
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
" ... Or the auction lots you bought blind
just so you had something to take home. ..."
Blind ?
Really ?
Somehow, I have trouble imagining you bidding
blind on lots lots you bought "just so you
had something to take home," Ian
Yes, that would be a notable day.
Login to Like
this post
10:46:47am
Auctions - Approvals
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
Charlie,
Yup! I have done that more than once.
Aye I've regretted it on ocassion but also been quite pleased with the result!
You have to live on the edge now and again.
After all its only money!!
Login to Like
this post
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
You live, you learn!
Awhile back when I was first trying to get my USA collection in order, I saw a lot on eBay that had a Scott Minuteman album. It looked like my album from my teens. Most of the cheap stamps, none of the better ones! The provided scans of album pages showed all the mint stamps in mounts. So I placed a low bid on it, and was surprised I won!
When I received it, I instantly knew why! Sure, all the mint stamps were in mounts... but this must've been this kid's third album because they all had multiple massive hinge marks on them! Awful! The guy selling it no doubt knew about it... after all I discovered it in a few minutes.. and neglected to make any mention of it.
So I pulled all of these stamps out of the album, and added up that I paid less than face for them, so I used them all for postage. Still, I got a nice old album for free.
The second time I had an issue was when I bought an entire set of plate blocks for the 1940 Famous Americans. All the blocks appeared to be in mounts. AND they were all on very nice Minkus pages. It comes in the mail and I was horrified. Mounts? No, someone had cut up old clear page protectors and scotch taped three sides of them! Then scotch taped it into the album. Each album page had tape bleed through on the reverse side. And a fair number of the plate blocks had tape bleed through on the perforations in the corners of the improvised mounts. And many of them had self fused to the back of these as they gassed out.
I went back and looked at the auction... photos artfully taken at angles that didn't show the damage...
I contacted the dealer and he argued! He told "it wasn't that bad" and "I got a deal on them so what if they were damaged?" He only agreed to take them back when I promised to do a Paypal dispute. I mailed them back, made sure I insured and had tracking on the package... not trusting the creep. He then reversed my Paypal charge. AND I got stuck for the $7 postage!
Login to Like
this post
07:59:59pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
Aye! Scans and photos can cover a multitude of sins.
I'm lucky enough to have several auction houses that I can visit and can physically examine lots before I decide to buy or not.
I cannot examine every lot within the nominated viewing time so a careful study of their catalogue beforehand is a must.
Login to Like
this post
11:25:20pm
re: What do Dealers Pay for Collections?
" "I got a deal on them so what if they were damaged?""
I believe that is a common frame of mind for alot of sellers. If the damage wasn't described, then that attitude is nothing more than fraud.
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