Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I detest getting a bill for a couple dollars. I have in the past when billed less than $5, have been billed by PayPal $5 extra! I, and I'm sure there are others, would gladly welcome disclaimers added to NOT bill until the account reaches X amount, generally $10, or whatever one wants. It would also save on postage - combine more than a couple stamps every so often to one mailing of many once in a while.
I really wish something like this could be implemented.
Although in Canada, Interac Transfers are free, some Canadians refuse that.
Peter
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11:57:16pm
" .... I ............ would gladly welcome disclaimers
added to NOT bill until the account reaches X amount,
generally $10, or whatever one ("buyer") wants. ...."
This is an interesting thought. I also dislike (Not to
the level of hate.) minor invoices, but also see problems.
Some sellers have either, such a paucity of decent goods
that it may take a considerable time to accumulate an
invoice over a particular amount, or, set such a high starting
price (For a particular common stamp or set.) that it also
takes an often unreasonable period of time to reach almost
any worthwhile total.
I usually try to avoid those few member's offers, but admit
that there times when I shoot first and only ask questions
later.
And to be a "straight shooter" and extend the simile, (metaphor ?),
over the last ten or so years, I have accidently ticked the
"#1.) purchase" tab in lieu of the "previous" tab while browsing
an approvals book. I usually feel constrained to seek something
worthwhile somewhere among that seller's offerings to build up a
reasonable purchase.
On the bright side, once, and only once. that I can recall, I
accidently ticked the #1 purchase tab for a pair of beautiful
stamps that I wanted, but had thought it best to delay purchase
until I had the other outstanding invoices totaled, and paid off,
before choosing a $45.oo item.
Every time I riffle through that album and see my fortuitous
purchase, I smile and thank the Fickle Finger of Fillatelic
Fate For Forcing my lunch hooks to flick that number one key.
.
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"I have in the past when billed less than $5, have been billed by PayPal $5 extra."
Correct me if I am wrong BUT Buyers do not pay any Paypal fees when paying an invoice, it is the Seller who pays Paypal Fees?
If Paypal is charging a Buyer fees then it is probably because they are paying by Debit/Credit Card rather than a Paypal account, or they are sending the money direct to the seller and not by the invoice generated by the sales platform.
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I draw attention to General Rule 2
"A2. Purchasing a stamp from an approval book or from an auction creates an agreement between the buyer and seller that the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small and is based on the rules below and the seller's terms and conditions. If there are discrepancies between the seller’s rules and these rules, SOR’s rules will be the ones hono"
The applicable phrase is:-
"the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small and is based on the rules below and the seller's terms and conditions"
Of course discussions between Buyer and Seller should take place. Sellers can reopen an invoice and add on any further purchases at a later date.
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BrightonPete, I suggest you contact sellers in advance to work out any special arrangements. Some are a lot more flexible than others.
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Pete,
A buyer disclaimer will be at odds with existing Stamporama billing rules, as Ian has already pointed out above.
A set minimum amount is also not going to be practical in all situations, because shipping fees vary widely from sometimes zero to $5 and more depending on the size and weight of the item.
As a buyer I try to have the shipping charges go under an acceptable percentage of the total order, with the sellers understanding and permission, of course. If Stamporama rules are to be enforced like a policeman would, I will be paying fines left and right. There are still some problems though. When you buy from multiple sellers, you lose track of the small orders or the status with each of the sellers, so you do not know if you want to add more items to a small order, or if buying this 10 cent stamp actually opens up a new tab.
As a seller I am slow, trying to get the shipping charges at about 10% of the buyers order and for this reason, I have uninvoiced items sitting in buyer accounts since probably last year.
When a buyer asks for an invoice, it takes the pressure off my chest. 
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When I purchase a minimal amount of stamps from a seller, I will typically message the seller requesting for him to not invoice me until I have a chance to purchase future stamps. When I am comfortable with the amount, I will message and request an invoice. There are times when I will request an invoice for a minimal amount as I do not wish to put too much burden on the seller.
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"When you buy from multiple sellers, you lose track of the small orders or the status with each of the sellers, so you do not know if you want to add more items to a small order, or if buying this 10 cent stamp actually opens up a new tab."
Funnily enough we sellers use the "Sellers" function of the Auction and Approval Systems here otherwise we would never know what we had sold and to whom.
Why do buyers seldom use the "Buyers" function of these Systems to keep track of what they have bought and from whom?
Are the Buyers Systems too complex? Are the Buyers Systems unintelligible?
There is a Buyers System! USE IT!!
Do not expect the sellers to hold your hands, wipe your noses, dry your tears or even put your purchases into your albums!
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"Why do buyers seldom use the "Buyers" function"
Imagine you see this newly posted Approvals book with zero views, would you first open it and see what stamps you can find for your collection in it, or you will first go to the Buyers section to see what purchases you have made with this seller already?
And then, if you bought $2 worth of stamps from sellers 1, 2, 3, 4...... and they do not post something in a while, you kind of forget what the situation is; so it take some effort to stay on top of it.
One needs to check what has been purchased and then look for listings from those sellers to add to the order, which I sometimes do, but ......more often than not life gets in the way.
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I keep track of all my stamps in StampManage. If I purchase something, I add it to StampManage with a note including date of purchase. This reduces buying the same stamp again. I do use the buyer's feature to help trace items not received (missing shipments - have one know, and missing items from shipments). Some sellers will include a complete printed invoice and others just a summary.
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"If I purchase something, I add it to StampManage with a note including date of purchase. This reduces buying the same stamp again."
Dang, I need to do that too, or at least make a note of purchases. Too bad that app is PC only. It sounds like a good app!
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09:39:55am
All purchases are almost immediately added to "Buyers - Won lots "
regardless of whether the item is an Auction item or an Approval item.
Auction items are identified from the seller's description whether
specific or vague.
Approval items however, are only listed by book number, page number,
and the item's number on that page. Since the benefit of the approval
function is that items need not be listed per catalog number or other
description, that is the best the system can do. Further info on the
approval items would require more work by the seller and that would
require a higher cost per page.
If a buyer wants to have a detailed list of what he, or she, purchased
that research falls on the buyer and the approvals purchase prices car
remain modest, (I hope).
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"All purchases are almost immediately added to "Buyers - Won lots "
regardless of whether the item is an Auction item or an Approval item.
Auction items are identified from the seller's description whether
specific or vague. "
In the "Buyers Won Lots" if you want to see what approval you have won click on the item No and up pops the scan of the approval page and then you can see what you have purchased.
"Imagine you see this newly posted Approvals book with zero views, would you first open it and see what stamps you can find for your collection in it, or you will first go to the Buyers section to see what purchases you have made with this seller already?"
Yes.
Once you "buy" an item it is removed from the system. If you take days/weeks/months to pay for that item you are doing a dis-service not only to the seller but to other members who may buy the item and pay the seller quicker than you.
"you kind of forget what the situation is; so it take some effort to stay on top of it."
See Rule A2. I repeat the appropriate phrase
""the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small and is based on the rules below and the seller's terms and conditions""
"it take some effort to stay on top of it."
Yes it takes effort. If sellers have to put in the effort to stay on top of sales surely buyers should reciprocate and put in some effort to stay on top of their purchases.
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01:02:01pm
I plead guilty to not checking to see what I have bought from the seller. I dive straight in and start looking!! How many times have I missed out on a treasure by a few seconds because I wasted(?) time? So I apologize for my rashness, but that's me! If I end up paying an invoice for a small amount, at least it is for items I want. If the postage is more than the items, well...so be it, I still want the items. I guess we are all different. I paid an invoice (gladly) today for a cheap Poland stamp because it fills a page. Even at my ripe old age I still feel the joy of finding a new item. A couple weeks ago I bought a couple shades for an Angle Lamp from The New York Angle Lamp Company because I needed the shades to finish the lamp and even though they were over priced, they show up rarely, and I WANTED Them!!! 'Nuff said!
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"If you take days/weeks/months to pay for that item you are doing a dis-service not only to the seller but to other members who may buy the item and pay the seller quicker than you."
Ian, are you referring to yourself as the seller and me as the buyer in your post above?
Many months ago you posted something to the effect that you are sending invoices to buyers regularly, but you let the buyers pay at their discretion. Please decide which one it is.
Happy New Year by the way, lets not get hung up on small stuff.
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03:29:07pm
Part of these posts mentioned the problem of buying a stamp twice. We have all done it, but I minimize the chances by removing a stamp from my want list as soon as I buy it and then always checking my want list before I buy a stamp. This has backfired a couple times when the person I have bought from decides that my order is not large enough to ship and assumes I don't want the items and cancels the order. This hasn't happened often, but it has happened. Note: Everything I buy is bought because I actually do want the items!!! I also go into my albums and put a "B" next to an item I am bidding on and then put a small shaded in oval next to the item after I buy it. I counted about a dozen stamps, especially in Poland, with an existing oval and no stamp. This then gets added back to the want list. Problem solved!
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Cougar:-
I was not refering to you or I but as groups.
However when one is pleasant enough to say "buyer discretion" one does not expect immediate payment but expects payment in a reasonable time frame not several weeks or several months later.
A seller may issue an invoice not just as a demand for payment but also to let the buyer know how much they have spent and how much the shipping for their purchases cost.(some buyers do not look at the "Buyers won" section so it helps if the seller lets them know)
We are a club and are more forgiving than other platforms and most buyers and sellers jog along quite happily but there are members who push the limits far beyond what is reasonable.
During this discussion it has been intimated that buyers dive into an Approval book so they do not lose out and miss a stamp that they desire. It is a shame that their desire for a stamp out-weighs their consideration for others.
Did you know that the system here allows you and me to see who has bought what stamp from whom, when it was bought and what price was paid. The system also allows you and me to see who has sold what stamp to whom, when it was bought and what price was paid.
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" the person I have bought from decides that my order is not large enough to ship and assumes I don't want the items and cancels the order."
I send an invoice towards the end of each month to everybody that has an outstanding balance. This reminds the buyer that they have stamps waiting for payment and delivery.
My personal opinion is that every seller should do this and it would remind members that there are stamps sitting around waiting for them.
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07:21:49pm
"My personal opinion is that every seller should do this and it would remind members that there are stamps sitting around waiting for them."
Yes Ian, I agree! Of course, I should keep better track as well!
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05:52:34pm
What is a "Want List ?"
Can you buy one somewhere ?
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Sellers can add all kinds of disclaimers, but are there none for buyers?
I detest getting a bill for a couple dollars. I have in the past when billed less than $5, have been billed by PayPal $5 extra! I, and I'm sure there are others, would gladly welcome disclaimers added to NOT bill until the account reaches X amount, generally $10, or whatever one wants. It would also save on postage - combine more than a couple stamps every so often to one mailing of many once in a while.
I really wish something like this could be implemented.
Although in Canada, Interac Transfers are free, some Canadians refuse that.
Peter
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Dec 2021
11:57:16pm
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
" .... I ............ would gladly welcome disclaimers
added to NOT bill until the account reaches X amount,
generally $10, or whatever one ("buyer") wants. ...."
This is an interesting thought. I also dislike (Not to
the level of hate.) minor invoices, but also see problems.
Some sellers have either, such a paucity of decent goods
that it may take a considerable time to accumulate an
invoice over a particular amount, or, set such a high starting
price (For a particular common stamp or set.) that it also
takes an often unreasonable period of time to reach almost
any worthwhile total.
I usually try to avoid those few member's offers, but admit
that there times when I shoot first and only ask questions
later.
And to be a "straight shooter" and extend the simile, (metaphor ?),
over the last ten or so years, I have accidently ticked the
"#1.) purchase" tab in lieu of the "previous" tab while browsing
an approvals book. I usually feel constrained to seek something
worthwhile somewhere among that seller's offerings to build up a
reasonable purchase.
On the bright side, once, and only once. that I can recall, I
accidently ticked the #1 purchase tab for a pair of beautiful
stamps that I wanted, but had thought it best to delay purchase
until I had the other outstanding invoices totaled, and paid off,
before choosing a $45.oo item.
Every time I riffle through that album and see my fortuitous
purchase, I smile and thank the Fickle Finger of Fillatelic
Fate For Forcing my lunch hooks to flick that number one key.
.
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05:18:03am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
"I have in the past when billed less than $5, have been billed by PayPal $5 extra."
Correct me if I am wrong BUT Buyers do not pay any Paypal fees when paying an invoice, it is the Seller who pays Paypal Fees?
If Paypal is charging a Buyer fees then it is probably because they are paying by Debit/Credit Card rather than a Paypal account, or they are sending the money direct to the seller and not by the invoice generated by the sales platform.
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05:34:13am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
I draw attention to General Rule 2
"A2. Purchasing a stamp from an approval book or from an auction creates an agreement between the buyer and seller that the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small and is based on the rules below and the seller's terms and conditions. If there are discrepancies between the seller’s rules and these rules, SOR’s rules will be the ones hono"
The applicable phrase is:-
"the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small and is based on the rules below and the seller's terms and conditions"
Of course discussions between Buyer and Seller should take place. Sellers can reopen an invoice and add on any further purchases at a later date.
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re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
BrightonPete, I suggest you contact sellers in advance to work out any special arrangements. Some are a lot more flexible than others.
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re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
Pete,
A buyer disclaimer will be at odds with existing Stamporama billing rules, as Ian has already pointed out above.
A set minimum amount is also not going to be practical in all situations, because shipping fees vary widely from sometimes zero to $5 and more depending on the size and weight of the item.
As a buyer I try to have the shipping charges go under an acceptable percentage of the total order, with the sellers understanding and permission, of course. If Stamporama rules are to be enforced like a policeman would, I will be paying fines left and right. There are still some problems though. When you buy from multiple sellers, you lose track of the small orders or the status with each of the sellers, so you do not know if you want to add more items to a small order, or if buying this 10 cent stamp actually opens up a new tab.
As a seller I am slow, trying to get the shipping charges at about 10% of the buyers order and for this reason, I have uninvoiced items sitting in buyer accounts since probably last year.
When a buyer asks for an invoice, it takes the pressure off my chest.
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re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
When I purchase a minimal amount of stamps from a seller, I will typically message the seller requesting for him to not invoice me until I have a chance to purchase future stamps. When I am comfortable with the amount, I will message and request an invoice. There are times when I will request an invoice for a minimal amount as I do not wish to put too much burden on the seller.
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08:21:12pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
"When you buy from multiple sellers, you lose track of the small orders or the status with each of the sellers, so you do not know if you want to add more items to a small order, or if buying this 10 cent stamp actually opens up a new tab."
Funnily enough we sellers use the "Sellers" function of the Auction and Approval Systems here otherwise we would never know what we had sold and to whom.
Why do buyers seldom use the "Buyers" function of these Systems to keep track of what they have bought and from whom?
Are the Buyers Systems too complex? Are the Buyers Systems unintelligible?
There is a Buyers System! USE IT!!
Do not expect the sellers to hold your hands, wipe your noses, dry your tears or even put your purchases into your albums!
3 Members
like this post.
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re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
"Why do buyers seldom use the "Buyers" function"
Imagine you see this newly posted Approvals book with zero views, would you first open it and see what stamps you can find for your collection in it, or you will first go to the Buyers section to see what purchases you have made with this seller already?
And then, if you bought $2 worth of stamps from sellers 1, 2, 3, 4...... and they do not post something in a while, you kind of forget what the situation is; so it take some effort to stay on top of it.
One needs to check what has been purchased and then look for listings from those sellers to add to the order, which I sometimes do, but ......more often than not life gets in the way.
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re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
I keep track of all my stamps in StampManage. If I purchase something, I add it to StampManage with a note including date of purchase. This reduces buying the same stamp again. I do use the buyer's feature to help trace items not received (missing shipments - have one know, and missing items from shipments). Some sellers will include a complete printed invoice and others just a summary.
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re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
"If I purchase something, I add it to StampManage with a note including date of purchase. This reduces buying the same stamp again."
Dang, I need to do that too, or at least make a note of purchases. Too bad that app is PC only. It sounds like a good app!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Dec 2021
09:39:55am
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
All purchases are almost immediately added to "Buyers - Won lots "
regardless of whether the item is an Auction item or an Approval item.
Auction items are identified from the seller's description whether
specific or vague.
Approval items however, are only listed by book number, page number,
and the item's number on that page. Since the benefit of the approval
function is that items need not be listed per catalog number or other
description, that is the best the system can do. Further info on the
approval items would require more work by the seller and that would
require a higher cost per page.
If a buyer wants to have a detailed list of what he, or she, purchased
that research falls on the buyer and the approvals purchase prices car
remain modest, (I hope).
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11:00:04am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
"All purchases are almost immediately added to "Buyers - Won lots "
regardless of whether the item is an Auction item or an Approval item.
Auction items are identified from the seller's description whether
specific or vague. "
In the "Buyers Won Lots" if you want to see what approval you have won click on the item No and up pops the scan of the approval page and then you can see what you have purchased.
"Imagine you see this newly posted Approvals book with zero views, would you first open it and see what stamps you can find for your collection in it, or you will first go to the Buyers section to see what purchases you have made with this seller already?"
Yes.
Once you "buy" an item it is removed from the system. If you take days/weeks/months to pay for that item you are doing a dis-service not only to the seller but to other members who may buy the item and pay the seller quicker than you.
"you kind of forget what the situation is; so it take some effort to stay on top of it."
See Rule A2. I repeat the appropriate phrase
""the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small and is based on the rules below and the seller's terms and conditions""
"it take some effort to stay on top of it."
Yes it takes effort. If sellers have to put in the effort to stay on top of sales surely buyers should reciprocate and put in some effort to stay on top of their purchases.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
27 Dec 2021
01:02:01pm
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
I plead guilty to not checking to see what I have bought from the seller. I dive straight in and start looking!! How many times have I missed out on a treasure by a few seconds because I wasted(?) time? So I apologize for my rashness, but that's me! If I end up paying an invoice for a small amount, at least it is for items I want. If the postage is more than the items, well...so be it, I still want the items. I guess we are all different. I paid an invoice (gladly) today for a cheap Poland stamp because it fills a page. Even at my ripe old age I still feel the joy of finding a new item. A couple weeks ago I bought a couple shades for an Angle Lamp from The New York Angle Lamp Company because I needed the shades to finish the lamp and even though they were over priced, they show up rarely, and I WANTED Them!!! 'Nuff said!
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re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
"If you take days/weeks/months to pay for that item you are doing a dis-service not only to the seller but to other members who may buy the item and pay the seller quicker than you."
Ian, are you referring to yourself as the seller and me as the buyer in your post above?
Many months ago you posted something to the effect that you are sending invoices to buyers regularly, but you let the buyers pay at their discretion. Please decide which one it is.
Happy New Year by the way, lets not get hung up on small stuff.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
27 Dec 2021
03:29:07pm
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
Part of these posts mentioned the problem of buying a stamp twice. We have all done it, but I minimize the chances by removing a stamp from my want list as soon as I buy it and then always checking my want list before I buy a stamp. This has backfired a couple times when the person I have bought from decides that my order is not large enough to ship and assumes I don't want the items and cancels the order. This hasn't happened often, but it has happened. Note: Everything I buy is bought because I actually do want the items!!! I also go into my albums and put a "B" next to an item I am bidding on and then put a small shaded in oval next to the item after I buy it. I counted about a dozen stamps, especially in Poland, with an existing oval and no stamp. This then gets added back to the want list. Problem solved!
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07:36:12pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
Cougar:-
I was not refering to you or I but as groups.
However when one is pleasant enough to say "buyer discretion" one does not expect immediate payment but expects payment in a reasonable time frame not several weeks or several months later.
A seller may issue an invoice not just as a demand for payment but also to let the buyer know how much they have spent and how much the shipping for their purchases cost.(some buyers do not look at the "Buyers won" section so it helps if the seller lets them know)
We are a club and are more forgiving than other platforms and most buyers and sellers jog along quite happily but there are members who push the limits far beyond what is reasonable.
During this discussion it has been intimated that buyers dive into an Approval book so they do not lose out and miss a stamp that they desire. It is a shame that their desire for a stamp out-weighs their consideration for others.
Did you know that the system here allows you and me to see who has bought what stamp from whom, when it was bought and what price was paid. The system also allows you and me to see who has sold what stamp to whom, when it was bought and what price was paid.
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07:47:18pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
" the person I have bought from decides that my order is not large enough to ship and assumes I don't want the items and cancels the order."
I send an invoice towards the end of each month to everybody that has an outstanding balance. This reminds the buyer that they have stamps waiting for payment and delivery.
My personal opinion is that every seller should do this and it would remind members that there are stamps sitting around waiting for them.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
28 Dec 2021
07:21:49pm
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
"My personal opinion is that every seller should do this and it would remind members that there are stamps sitting around waiting for them."
Yes Ian, I agree! Of course, I should keep better track as well!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Dec 2021
05:52:34pm
re: Buyer Billing Disclaimer?
What is a "Want List ?"
Can you buy one somewhere ?
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