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Oceania/Other : Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

 

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Love & Peace

07 Mar 2022
05:05:11pm
INTRODUCTION: This tread established by Internal Philatelist, a sub group in French Polynesia Stamp Club. The Internal Philatelists analyze & investigate stamps, letters & FDC. Advance level of philatelic study that's difficult to challenge. Professors are welcome to challenge us....Here's 3 sub groups in the club:
.
Commoner- Experience Collectors without Certification or Doctoral degree.
Internal Philatelist- Philatelic Investigators with certification in stamp authentication & grading (20+ years exp)
Processor- Philatelic Scientists with Doctoral degree (30+ years exp)
.
.
.
Today, we will evaluate a mail letter that was send to International Space Station by a Russian space aircraft. The letter is addressed to the crew on the space station. I'm not familiar the value of this item and I need your evaluation.
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
The mail was received in space station (2020).


Image Not Found
Jean LeMay, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
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Love & Peace

07 Mar 2022
06:11:26pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

I can not evaluate this item. This item is more of a conversational piece than a collectable item. I have no idea how much this item is, but it must be expensive. Any mail that send outside of planet is not cheap.

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Nathan Auti, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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Love & Peace

07 Mar 2022
06:30:53pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

I pass. I think it's too early to evaluate any mails goes to space. There may or may not be a market for this because it's too new. As now, I would not put a value on this item, but it is a interesting item. It probably make a good gift. I personally would not collect this for many many reasons.

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Paul Bourgeois, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

07 Mar 2022
06:50:09pm

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re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

SOR member John Macco is a collector of space mail; he might have some opinions on this, altough I've only seen him with US-franked covers

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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

07 Mar 2022
06:51:02pm

Auctions
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

i also love the image of the cover and the window onto the world. it helps to reinforce its provenance

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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Love & Peace

07 Mar 2022
10:24:17pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Before we evaluate this item, we must be careful because we not expert in Russian Astrophilately. Please examine all facts and data before evaluation:

FACT #1 - This item sent by registered mail from Monaco Phil 2019 international philatelic exhibition to Russia. This item was handed over to crew of “Soyuz MS-16” spacecraft.
.
FACT #2 - Spacecraft transport & hand delivered this item to staff on International Space Station.
.
FACT #3 - The flown cover has marked “ISS” octagonal board seal, the “Russian Post. Board of ISS. Russian Segment” board post mark & the “Russian Segment of International Space Station” board souvenir seal both dated April 9, 2020, the day when the Russian Soyuz MS-16 spacecraft docked with the International Space Station.
.
.
On flown cover, there's hand signed autograph Mr. Yves Beaujard, design & line-engraving of the block. You can see the autograph between MONACOPHIL 2019 cachet & the postage block. Grace Kelly stamp block is valued around 10 euros.
.
.
In Conclusion, my evaluation is based on 3 facts & the condition of this item which was regarded to Expedition 62 & Expedition 63 missions. I can't target the value of this item, but I estimate value at minimum 400 euros. PS- I think there is a hand written letter inside the flown cover. It's a long message to staff on space station.

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Delphine Kiipuhia, Professor
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
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Love & Peace

09 Mar 2022
07:57:52am
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Interesting, a lot of information. I still think it's better to let someone who's a Specialist to evaluate this item. Thanks amsd, lets get John Macco who collect space mail, he would know this field of study.

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Paul Bourgeois, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
1112
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Love & Peace

10 Mar 2022
08:31:43am
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

This is amazing, I know I'm not expert for this item, but I'm tempted to evaluate this interesting item. I like the post marks, pretty unique and unusual. Anyway, here is my evaluation:
.
Condition: Superb (98 points)
Texture: XF (95 points)
Post mark: Superb Gem(100 points)
Letter imp: Superb (98 points)
Regst. label: Superb (98 points)
G.Kelly sheet: XF (95 points)
Value at: $900
.
Total points = 584. This item scored very high. The autograph & multiple post marks were huge plus. My evaluation may or may not be accurate, but it is an expensive item for sure.
.
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René Tamarino, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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Love & Peace

11 Mar 2022
09:40:35am
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Thanks everyone for participating. The evaluation for this item was difficult. We estimated the value is between $400-$900. The owner of this item is selling for $1600 including a AIEP Certificate of Authenticity & two pictures photographed on board the International Space Station. Now, we conclude our discussion.

Image Not Found
Jean LeMay, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
1112
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Love & Peace

13 Mar 2022
07:11:41pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

This week, we will evaluate a letter card from the sinking of Titanic on April 15, 1912. This letter card was recovered from the body of postal clerk working on Titanic. His body was pulled out from Atlantic Ocean by the rescue crew. This letter card was discovered & later sold. Over decades, this letter card has been brought & sold several times. Recently, the owner sold this letter card...Here's the challenge: Can anyone evaluate & estimate the value of this item ?
Image Not FoundImage Not Found
Front and back of letter card

Image Not Found
Jean LeMay, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
1112
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Love & Peace

13 Mar 2022
08:07:47pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Very interesting, the world's famous Titanic. The condition of this item is not bad. I see the postmark "London April 12". I also see the 3X5-inch buff-colored slip is stamped “O.S. Woody” and “TITANIC” that marked with the ship’s trans-Atlantic postal cancellation - Great Britain's one penny stamp and Queenstown postmark.” This is incredible.

Due to amazing postmarks & clarity of hand writing on this letter cover, I estimated this item at $160,000 (minimum). There's too much history on Titanic that the value of this item is higher than I estimated.

Image Not Found
Paul Bourgeois, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
1112
Members Picture


Love & Peace

14 Mar 2022
08:06:32pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Excellent piece of history. This is not just a postal historic item, but it's an artifact. It should be in the museum because it's very rare to have a letter card recovered from the ocean. This letter card features a bold color imprint of the White Star Line burgee. I like the one penny red King George V stamp, the condition of this item is good over all. I estimate this letter card to be around $200,000.


Image Not Found
Nathan Auti, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
1112
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Love & Peace

15 Mar 2022
09:15:05pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

This is extremely rare, there is some damages on letter card, but still very high value. I don't know the value, but I will use AI (Artificial Intelligence). AI stored millions of data on Titanic items including values of every items.
This item is $227,000. 37% of this item is valued at $227,000. Here is AI result:

08% = $170,000
12% = $182,000
20% = $206,000
37% = $227,000 ..
21% = $238,000
10% = $241,000
01% = $259,000

Image Not Found
Louis Kiihapaa, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
1112
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Love & Peace

16 Mar 2022
08:12:53pm
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Artificial Intelligence is not prefer method to evaluate the value of this item. AI is mostly use for Telecommunication or criminal science investigation. Evaluate this item is very difficult because there are many unknown factors such as water marks, finger prints & DNA traces on the letter cover. I can't evaluate this item with so many unknown factors !!
.
The best way to evaluate this item is to approach from the medical point of view. Forensic is necessary for this investigation. CAT scan is needed & microscope is required with a lot of lab testing on the fabric or texture of cover letter. A lot of science is involved which is beyond the capability of stamp collectors & sellers or even Internal Philatelists !
.
Once you have the answers of unknown factors, then you can began to evaluate this item. As for now, I recommend this item to be send to our lab for investigation. Good luck all.

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Ana Tekura, Professor
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
roy
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17 Mar 2022
12:47:19am
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

I don't know where you guys are getting your made-up theoretical values, but you are way off the mark of actual market values.

This particular letter card was sold by auctioneers Henry Aldridge & Son in April 2021 for about £16,000, including the buyer's premium. (roughly US$21,000)

And this is not the letter that was recovered from the body of a postal clerk. That wasn't a letter, it was a "postal facing slip" with his name "O.S. Woody". That sold in the same sale for £14,000.

You are confusing the market value with an unmailed letter recovered from the body of a Titanic passenger that sold in 2017 for £120,000, or the 2014 sale of the letter from Titanic survivor Esther Hart that sold for £119,000.

The letter you are evaluating was not on the Titanic when it sank, unlike the other items. It was mailed when the ship made its last stop at Queenstown, Ireland on April 11, after departing Southampton and stopping at Cherbourg France.

Roy

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

21 Mar 2022
02:37:55am
re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Regarding he "Space Cover;
" .... We estimated the value is between $400-$900.
The owner of this item is selling for $1600 .... "

"Selling" or "Offering" is one thing, "sold price" is more
accurate. Does anyone have any idea what the actual
sale price was, or whether it sold at all ?.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
07 Mar 2022
05:05:11pm

INTRODUCTION: This tread established by Internal Philatelist, a sub group in French Polynesia Stamp Club. The Internal Philatelists analyze & investigate stamps, letters & FDC. Advance level of philatelic study that's difficult to challenge. Professors are welcome to challenge us....Here's 3 sub groups in the club:
.
Commoner- Experience Collectors without Certification or Doctoral degree.
Internal Philatelist- Philatelic Investigators with certification in stamp authentication & grading (20+ years exp)
Processor- Philatelic Scientists with Doctoral degree (30+ years exp)
.
.
.
Today, we will evaluate a mail letter that was send to International Space Station by a Russian space aircraft. The letter is addressed to the crew on the space station. I'm not familiar the value of this item and I need your evaluation.
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
The mail was received in space station (2020).


Image Not Found
Jean LeMay, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
07 Mar 2022
06:11:26pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

I can not evaluate this item. This item is more of a conversational piece than a collectable item. I have no idea how much this item is, but it must be expensive. Any mail that send outside of planet is not cheap.

Image Not Found
Nathan Auti, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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1 Member
likes this post.
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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
07 Mar 2022
06:30:53pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

I pass. I think it's too early to evaluate any mails goes to space. There may or may not be a market for this because it's too new. As now, I would not put a value on this item, but it is a interesting item. It probably make a good gift. I personally would not collect this for many many reasons.

Image Not Found
Paul Bourgeois, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
07 Mar 2022
06:50:09pm

Auctions

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

SOR member John Macco is a collector of space mail; he might have some opinions on this, altough I've only seen him with US-franked covers

Like
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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
07 Mar 2022
06:51:02pm

Auctions

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

i also love the image of the cover and the window onto the world. it helps to reinforce its provenance

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
07 Mar 2022
10:24:17pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Before we evaluate this item, we must be careful because we not expert in Russian Astrophilately. Please examine all facts and data before evaluation:

FACT #1 - This item sent by registered mail from Monaco Phil 2019 international philatelic exhibition to Russia. This item was handed over to crew of “Soyuz MS-16” spacecraft.
.
FACT #2 - Spacecraft transport & hand delivered this item to staff on International Space Station.
.
FACT #3 - The flown cover has marked “ISS” octagonal board seal, the “Russian Post. Board of ISS. Russian Segment” board post mark & the “Russian Segment of International Space Station” board souvenir seal both dated April 9, 2020, the day when the Russian Soyuz MS-16 spacecraft docked with the International Space Station.
.
.
On flown cover, there's hand signed autograph Mr. Yves Beaujard, design & line-engraving of the block. You can see the autograph between MONACOPHIL 2019 cachet & the postage block. Grace Kelly stamp block is valued around 10 euros.
.
.
In Conclusion, my evaluation is based on 3 facts & the condition of this item which was regarded to Expedition 62 & Expedition 63 missions. I can't target the value of this item, but I estimate value at minimum 400 euros. PS- I think there is a hand written letter inside the flown cover. It's a long message to staff on space station.

Image Not Found
Delphine Kiipuhia, Professor
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
09 Mar 2022
07:57:52am

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Interesting, a lot of information. I still think it's better to let someone who's a Specialist to evaluate this item. Thanks amsd, lets get John Macco who collect space mail, he would know this field of study.

Image Not Found
Paul Bourgeois, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
10 Mar 2022
08:31:43am

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

This is amazing, I know I'm not expert for this item, but I'm tempted to evaluate this interesting item. I like the post marks, pretty unique and unusual. Anyway, here is my evaluation:
.
Condition: Superb (98 points)
Texture: XF (95 points)
Post mark: Superb Gem(100 points)
Letter imp: Superb (98 points)
Regst. label: Superb (98 points)
G.Kelly sheet: XF (95 points)
Value at: $900
.
Total points = 584. This item scored very high. The autograph & multiple post marks were huge plus. My evaluation may or may not be accurate, but it is an expensive item for sure.
.
Image Not Found
René Tamarino, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
11 Mar 2022
09:40:35am

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Thanks everyone for participating. The evaluation for this item was difficult. We estimated the value is between $400-$900. The owner of this item is selling for $1600 including a AIEP Certificate of Authenticity & two pictures photographed on board the International Space Station. Now, we conclude our discussion.

Image Not Found
Jean LeMay, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
13 Mar 2022
07:11:41pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

This week, we will evaluate a letter card from the sinking of Titanic on April 15, 1912. This letter card was recovered from the body of postal clerk working on Titanic. His body was pulled out from Atlantic Ocean by the rescue crew. This letter card was discovered & later sold. Over decades, this letter card has been brought & sold several times. Recently, the owner sold this letter card...Here's the challenge: Can anyone evaluate & estimate the value of this item ?
Image Not FoundImage Not Found
Front and back of letter card

Image Not Found
Jean LeMay, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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Login to Like
this post

"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
13 Mar 2022
08:07:47pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Very interesting, the world's famous Titanic. The condition of this item is not bad. I see the postmark "London April 12". I also see the 3X5-inch buff-colored slip is stamped “O.S. Woody” and “TITANIC” that marked with the ship’s trans-Atlantic postal cancellation - Great Britain's one penny stamp and Queenstown postmark.” This is incredible.

Due to amazing postmarks & clarity of hand writing on this letter cover, I estimated this item at $160,000 (minimum). There's too much history on Titanic that the value of this item is higher than I estimated.

Image Not Found
Paul Bourgeois, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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1 Member
likes this post.
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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
14 Mar 2022
08:06:32pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Excellent piece of history. This is not just a postal historic item, but it's an artifact. It should be in the museum because it's very rare to have a letter card recovered from the ocean. This letter card features a bold color imprint of the White Star Line burgee. I like the one penny red King George V stamp, the condition of this item is good over all. I estimate this letter card to be around $200,000.


Image Not Found
Nathan Auti, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
15 Mar 2022
09:15:05pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

This is extremely rare, there is some damages on letter card, but still very high value. I don't know the value, but I will use AI (Artificial Intelligence). AI stored millions of data on Titanic items including values of every items.
This item is $227,000. 37% of this item is valued at $227,000. Here is AI result:

08% = $170,000
12% = $182,000
20% = $206,000
37% = $227,000 ..
21% = $238,000
10% = $241,000
01% = $259,000

Image Not Found
Louis Kiihapaa, Internal Philatelist
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."
Members Picture
1112

Love & Peace
16 Mar 2022
08:12:53pm

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Artificial Intelligence is not prefer method to evaluate the value of this item. AI is mostly use for Telecommunication or criminal science investigation. Evaluate this item is very difficult because there are many unknown factors such as water marks, finger prints & DNA traces on the letter cover. I can't evaluate this item with so many unknown factors !!
.
The best way to evaluate this item is to approach from the medical point of view. Forensic is necessary for this investigation. CAT scan is needed & microscope is required with a lot of lab testing on the fabric or texture of cover letter. A lot of science is involved which is beyond the capability of stamp collectors & sellers or even Internal Philatelists !
.
Once you have the answers of unknown factors, then you can began to evaluate this item. As for now, I recommend this item to be send to our lab for investigation. Good luck all.

Image Not Found
Ana Tekura, Professor
French Polynesia Stamp Club

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"Love & Peace. Bonjour Mesdames et messieurs. Que l'amour et la paix soient avec toi. Merci."

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
17 Mar 2022
12:47:19am

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

I don't know where you guys are getting your made-up theoretical values, but you are way off the mark of actual market values.

This particular letter card was sold by auctioneers Henry Aldridge & Son in April 2021 for about £16,000, including the buyer's premium. (roughly US$21,000)

And this is not the letter that was recovered from the body of a postal clerk. That wasn't a letter, it was a "postal facing slip" with his name "O.S. Woody". That sold in the same sale for £14,000.

You are confusing the market value with an unmailed letter recovered from the body of a Titanic passenger that sold in 2017 for £120,000, or the 2014 sale of the letter from Titanic survivor Esther Hart that sold for £119,000.

The letter you are evaluating was not on the Titanic when it sank, unlike the other items. It was mailed when the ship made its last stop at Queenstown, Ireland on April 11, after departing Southampton and stopping at Cherbourg France.

Roy

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1 Member
likes this post.
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"Over 7,000 new covers coming Thursday Jan. 18. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Mar 2022
02:37:55am

re: Internal Philatelists - Examines Titanic's letter card

Regarding he "Space Cover;
" .... We estimated the value is between $400-$900.
The owner of this item is selling for $1600 .... "

"Selling" or "Offering" is one thing, "sold price" is more
accurate. Does anyone have any idea what the actual
sale price was, or whether it sold at all ?.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

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