Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
08:19:18am
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Any internet site run by an individual or company can and do lay down their own sales conditions as long as they meet the consumer protection laws applicable to the country in which they operate from.
It all comes down to the old adage "Buyer Beware".
Yes one must always read the "small print" and take nothing for granted.
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Personally, I do not purchase from anyone who does not show what I am buying. So, "stock images" or "generic images" fall into that category. This is why higher ethics need to be in place with Internet Dealers. If you do sell on an on-line platform, please check out Internet Philatelic Dealers Association. If you have any questions, please message me.
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I agree, when it comes to stamps, "no picture, no sale"
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I remember when the only time you would see the actual image of a stamp offered for sale was for a high value stamp being offered at auction. Stamp dealers routinely published price lists without images or catalogs with generic images. If you insisted on seeing the specific stamp you were purchasing, you needed to subscribe to an approval service. I am not aware of any approval service which would send specifically requested stamps.
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Harvey asked,
"How common is this and I guess we have to read the fine print?"
More common in some situations than others. For most eBay sales you get actual images but not always. So, yes, you have to pay attention if you are actually planning to buy or bid. And even if you are reading the fine print, you can be fooled by images. So, look closely and don't hesitate to return items that are faulty and not noted in the description.
For Arpin Philately, I have only bought one stamp from them and that was modern and they used a generic image but I knew that and liked what they sent me. Mostly I buy supplies from them and have been totally satisfied. Their service has been exceptional. Quick and packed excellently.
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11:40:37am
I've been very lucky, I only got sucked in once. I was looking through E-Bay trying to find a Canada variety - the "high flying G" on the paper production stamp. I better explain what the stamp is first. There are a bunch of Canada's official stamps with the G overprint. In some cases the G is a fit thinner and finer, this is the flying G. In some of these stamps the G is further up the stamp than normal, hence the "high flying G". People sometimes don't know what they have so occasionally you find these rarer stamps at the regular price. I thought that's what I had found, got a bit excited and bought the stamp. I shared the buy with an SOR person who also collected Canada varieties and he told me I should have read the fine print. Sure enough it was a generic picture of one of the stamps he had on offer. The one I got was not the variety but the regular one I already had. I don't think it was done on purpose, but maybe. But the stamp cost me very little and was better than the one in my collection and I now always (except if I get real excited) read the fine print!!!
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I routinely buy from Arpin, and have always been very satisfied with their products. Having said that, I do find their prices a little bit high, but don't mind if I am supporting a family run small business. Sometimes you will see the "generic" image replaced by the actual image after they have had time to scan and upload it. Not always, but generally on above minimum value stamps.
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Of course whether you are an individual or large conglomorate the time that is required to scan and list especially for low cost items you would try and reduce this time.
There are quite a few folkies on ebay offer a range of items on just one listing eg Security Machins with different codes, all the sets from a specific year, First day Covers etc etc etc.
We have a saying in Old Caledonia:- "You pays your money and you takes your choice."
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For years I purchased stamps without seeing an images but usually I only purchased from a few dealers.
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For modern MNH material for which a dealer has multiple copies, a picture of each one would be a bit unnecessary as they are 99.9% identical. BUT Older
material, anything Used of any value, etc. well heck yeah, I’d skip buying those without a pic. I wonder sometimes at the number of auctions that STILL don’t have pics for every lot. I wonder if they realize that they are losing business from a lack of pics? I know they sure lose my business. And the picture quality varies greatly. Some of the high end, big ticket auction houses have magnificent hi resolution pics that are so good I’ve downloaded a few for reference. Too bad I can’t afford most of those gems, but a gals gotta dream, eh?
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I don't collect anything modern, so it's no picture, no sale for me. I want to see what I'm getting.
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@DaveSheridan
Good point!
1898
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Stamps 2 go is really bad for generic pictures and also no images at all. I made a complaint to delcampe about one retail stamp business that stated in their listings that images were from their catalogue and not the items you would receive ,but nothing was done.
Brian
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If you want individual images you should be prepared to pay a higher price. Providing specific images is a time consuming (i.e., expensive) process.
If you purchase a used book on Amazon, I can almost guarantee you will not see a specific image. All you will see is a description of condition.
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As a dealer, I find a comment that you have to pay more to get an image rather silly (respectfully).
There are two sellers on Hipstamp who refuse to scan low-value stamps, but continue to list them. Their stores show pages of "no image" messages. If that's how they want to run their business that's up to them. Clearly they have a customer base that tolerates that level of laziness.
I want my customers to see what I'm selling.
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"Clearly they have a customer base that tolerates that level of laziness."
Please don't equate efficiency with laziness. Labor has a cost. Cost reduction allows a business to offer a lower price. Some customers will decide not trade with a business that fails to display their wares in a manner which the customer desires. Each dealer makes his own decision as to whether the gain of a customer looking for a good price outweighs the loss of a demanding customer. In the case of a dealer who treats his business as a hobby, he may not have to make this trade off. In the case of Stamporama, I think most sellers are not here to make a profit. Selling is an adjunct to their hobby. They are selling excess material from lots they have purchased for their collections or selling material from collecting areas they have abandoned. I think this is less true of sellers on other platforms which permit generic images or no images. They have elected to reduce their investment in the time required to produce individual images. One could argue that they have made a poor business decision by doing so, but I think it is wrong to call them lazy.
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The great equalizer is the fact that we can very plainly express our opinion on pictures or the lack thereof with our pocketbooks or wallets. If enough customers walk away from sellers who fail to provide images then all of a sudden the cost to add pictures becomes lower than not making a sale.
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This might be getting off the topic.
SOR members who can't or won't provide a scan or photo, especially when they are asking a question about how to ID a stamp. But they have a computer! I suppose there are people who can't afford a scanner. I bought my scanner used back in 2007 and it works great.
Am I being too negative?
1898
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01:35:11pm
"Am I being too negative?"
A little bit. This might be aimed at me because I usually have to wait while a friend takes a picture for me. I have a good camera and used to have a good scanner. My computer is very old and sensitive and eventually I will get a new one but until then I really don't want to install my camera or a new scanner. Even though the files are regularly backed up I have a very large number of files saved concerning a book I am working on. I have been told that if I buy a new computer these files will still work. The last time I bought a new system I found this to be not entirely true. At some time in the near future I will buy a new system and use the present one only for the book. In the meantime I'll continue what I am doing. If scans are important to the post I'll make sure I have them. Most of us try to do the best we can with what we have. It's also possible there are members who can't afford the most up to date gear.
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@Everyone
Guess I was "a little negative"!
1898
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Not negative at all. I use a Canon Lide 400 scanner. It cost me less than A$100, plugs into a USB port and is easy to use.
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You see a lot more pictures taken by the a phone these days. They are getting a lot better. If someone had hundreds of stamps to sell, it can speed up the effort.
A good DLSR setup can take images faster than a scanner and equal quality.
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Al,
Do you have a technique for avoiding reflections when photographing stamps in a stocksheet?
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I usually do not take pictures in Vario sheets as a rule. I have used indirect light to reduce reflections and then use a higher ISO to compensate for less light. My comparison on speed was more about with single samples especially when trying to get high dpi scans.
I am not saying the quality of many of the images taken with a camera as seen on ebay are very good. You need a good setup ready to make it work,
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I sell covers on eBay. I sell about 50 covers and cards a week and the biggest time stealer is scanning and listing. I have my sheet scanner on my wifi, so there is no cable to my laptop. I can spend as much time scanning and cropping as listing.
Much of my stuff is unique so I have to provide images. If the cover has no markings on the reverse side, I don't scan it. In my text I type "Reverse side has no markings". If there is anything on the reverse side, good or bad, I will scan it. Receiving cancels add to the cover, stains or hand written notes do not, but I show it. I actually enjoy looking at arithmetic done by hand, and maybe others do too.
For modern first day covers, this is as close as I get to a generic photo. I will get a stack of the very same cover... Artcraft Cachet, not addressed, not sealed and machine FDOI cancel in the same basic position. I will run the Buy It Now listing showing I have 5-10-15 copies of that cover. They sell just fine, and it saves me having to create another listing every time I sell a cover.
For first day covers that are addressed, have different placement of postmark, extra postmark on back etc. Those all are listed as unique.
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10:08:26pm
"I actually enjoy looking at arithmetic done by hand, and maybe others do too."
You made me remember that I have a few covers with calculations on them. I think it's kind of neat that people would just grab envelopes they have lying around to figure out grocery bills or whatever!! I'm sure some people think it takes away from the cover but I think it adds that little extra personal touch!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Aug 2023
08:19:18am
I was checking out a site this morning ( https://www.arpinphilately.com/cat/canad ... ) and noticed that for the couple categories I looked at under every picture it said "generic image" which means, I guess, that you don't get the stamp you see, just one like it. How common is this and I guess we have to read the fine print? I don't remember seeing this for what possibly might be a whole site before. I also buy Marvel Silver Age comics and really have to be careful of this!
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08:45:27am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Generic images
Any internet site run by an individual or company can and do lay down their own sales conditions as long as they meet the consumer protection laws applicable to the country in which they operate from.
It all comes down to the old adage "Buyer Beware".
Yes one must always read the "small print" and take nothing for granted.
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this post
APS #222602 and Internet Philatelic Dealers Association #439
12 Aug 2023
08:48:08am
Approvals
re: Generic images
Personally, I do not purchase from anyone who does not show what I am buying. So, "stock images" or "generic images" fall into that category. This is why higher ethics need to be in place with Internet Dealers. If you do sell on an on-line platform, please check out Internet Philatelic Dealers Association. If you have any questions, please message me.
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re: Generic images
I agree, when it comes to stamps, "no picture, no sale"
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re: Generic images
I remember when the only time you would see the actual image of a stamp offered for sale was for a high value stamp being offered at auction. Stamp dealers routinely published price lists without images or catalogs with generic images. If you insisted on seeing the specific stamp you were purchasing, you needed to subscribe to an approval service. I am not aware of any approval service which would send specifically requested stamps.
Login to Like
this post
re: Generic images
Harvey asked,
"How common is this and I guess we have to read the fine print?"
More common in some situations than others. For most eBay sales you get actual images but not always. So, yes, you have to pay attention if you are actually planning to buy or bid. And even if you are reading the fine print, you can be fooled by images. So, look closely and don't hesitate to return items that are faulty and not noted in the description.
For Arpin Philately, I have only bought one stamp from them and that was modern and they used a generic image but I knew that and liked what they sent me. Mostly I buy supplies from them and have been totally satisfied. Their service has been exceptional. Quick and packed excellently.
Login to Like
this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Aug 2023
11:40:37am
re: Generic images
I've been very lucky, I only got sucked in once. I was looking through E-Bay trying to find a Canada variety - the "high flying G" on the paper production stamp. I better explain what the stamp is first. There are a bunch of Canada's official stamps with the G overprint. In some cases the G is a fit thinner and finer, this is the flying G. In some of these stamps the G is further up the stamp than normal, hence the "high flying G". People sometimes don't know what they have so occasionally you find these rarer stamps at the regular price. I thought that's what I had found, got a bit excited and bought the stamp. I shared the buy with an SOR person who also collected Canada varieties and he told me I should have read the fine print. Sure enough it was a generic picture of one of the stamps he had on offer. The one I got was not the variety but the regular one I already had. I don't think it was done on purpose, but maybe. But the stamp cost me very little and was better than the one in my collection and I now always (except if I get real excited) read the fine print!!!
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12:06:51pm
re: Generic images
I routinely buy from Arpin, and have always been very satisfied with their products. Having said that, I do find their prices a little bit high, but don't mind if I am supporting a family run small business. Sometimes you will see the "generic" image replaced by the actual image after they have had time to scan and upload it. Not always, but generally on above minimum value stamps.
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this post
02:12:26pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Generic images
Of course whether you are an individual or large conglomorate the time that is required to scan and list especially for low cost items you would try and reduce this time.
There are quite a few folkies on ebay offer a range of items on just one listing eg Security Machins with different codes, all the sets from a specific year, First day Covers etc etc etc.
We have a saying in Old Caledonia:- "You pays your money and you takes your choice."
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re: Generic images
For years I purchased stamps without seeing an images but usually I only purchased from a few dealers.
Login to Like
this post
re: Generic images
For modern MNH material for which a dealer has multiple copies, a picture of each one would be a bit unnecessary as they are 99.9% identical. BUT Older
material, anything Used of any value, etc. well heck yeah, I’d skip buying those without a pic. I wonder sometimes at the number of auctions that STILL don’t have pics for every lot. I wonder if they realize that they are losing business from a lack of pics? I know they sure lose my business. And the picture quality varies greatly. Some of the high end, big ticket auction houses have magnificent hi resolution pics that are so good I’ve downloaded a few for reference. Too bad I can’t afford most of those gems, but a gals gotta dream, eh?
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re: Generic images
I don't collect anything modern, so it's no picture, no sale for me. I want to see what I'm getting.
2 Members
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Auctions
re: Generic images
Stamps 2 go is really bad for generic pictures and also no images at all. I made a complaint to delcampe about one retail stamp business that stated in their listings that images were from their catalogue and not the items you would receive ,but nothing was done.
Brian
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this post
re: Generic images
If you want individual images you should be prepared to pay a higher price. Providing specific images is a time consuming (i.e., expensive) process.
If you purchase a used book on Amazon, I can almost guarantee you will not see a specific image. All you will see is a description of condition.
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re: Generic images
As a dealer, I find a comment that you have to pay more to get an image rather silly (respectfully).
There are two sellers on Hipstamp who refuse to scan low-value stamps, but continue to list them. Their stores show pages of "no image" messages. If that's how they want to run their business that's up to them. Clearly they have a customer base that tolerates that level of laziness.
I want my customers to see what I'm selling.
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Login to Like.
re: Generic images
"Clearly they have a customer base that tolerates that level of laziness."
Please don't equate efficiency with laziness. Labor has a cost. Cost reduction allows a business to offer a lower price. Some customers will decide not trade with a business that fails to display their wares in a manner which the customer desires. Each dealer makes his own decision as to whether the gain of a customer looking for a good price outweighs the loss of a demanding customer. In the case of a dealer who treats his business as a hobby, he may not have to make this trade off. In the case of Stamporama, I think most sellers are not here to make a profit. Selling is an adjunct to their hobby. They are selling excess material from lots they have purchased for their collections or selling material from collecting areas they have abandoned. I think this is less true of sellers on other platforms which permit generic images or no images. They have elected to reduce their investment in the time required to produce individual images. One could argue that they have made a poor business decision by doing so, but I think it is wrong to call them lazy.
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re: Generic images
The great equalizer is the fact that we can very plainly express our opinion on pictures or the lack thereof with our pocketbooks or wallets. If enough customers walk away from sellers who fail to provide images then all of a sudden the cost to add pictures becomes lower than not making a sale.
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01:12:48pm
re: Generic images
This might be getting off the topic.
SOR members who can't or won't provide a scan or photo, especially when they are asking a question about how to ID a stamp. But they have a computer! I suppose there are people who can't afford a scanner. I bought my scanner used back in 2007 and it works great.
Am I being too negative?
1898
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
15 Aug 2023
01:35:11pm
re: Generic images
"Am I being too negative?"
A little bit. This might be aimed at me because I usually have to wait while a friend takes a picture for me. I have a good camera and used to have a good scanner. My computer is very old and sensitive and eventually I will get a new one but until then I really don't want to install my camera or a new scanner. Even though the files are regularly backed up I have a very large number of files saved concerning a book I am working on. I have been told that if I buy a new computer these files will still work. The last time I bought a new system I found this to be not entirely true. At some time in the near future I will buy a new system and use the present one only for the book. In the meantime I'll continue what I am doing. If scans are important to the post I'll make sure I have them. Most of us try to do the best we can with what we have. It's also possible there are members who can't afford the most up to date gear.
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02:18:15pm
re: Generic images
@Everyone
Guess I was "a little negative"!
1898
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re: Generic images
Not negative at all. I use a Canon Lide 400 scanner. It cost me less than A$100, plugs into a USB port and is easy to use.
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re: Generic images
You see a lot more pictures taken by the a phone these days. They are getting a lot better. If someone had hundreds of stamps to sell, it can speed up the effort.
A good DLSR setup can take images faster than a scanner and equal quality.
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this post
re: Generic images
Al,
Do you have a technique for avoiding reflections when photographing stamps in a stocksheet?
Login to Like
this post
re: Generic images
I usually do not take pictures in Vario sheets as a rule. I have used indirect light to reduce reflections and then use a higher ISO to compensate for less light. My comparison on speed was more about with single samples especially when trying to get high dpi scans.
I am not saying the quality of many of the images taken with a camera as seen on ebay are very good. You need a good setup ready to make it work,
Login to Like
this post
re: Generic images
I sell covers on eBay. I sell about 50 covers and cards a week and the biggest time stealer is scanning and listing. I have my sheet scanner on my wifi, so there is no cable to my laptop. I can spend as much time scanning and cropping as listing.
Much of my stuff is unique so I have to provide images. If the cover has no markings on the reverse side, I don't scan it. In my text I type "Reverse side has no markings". If there is anything on the reverse side, good or bad, I will scan it. Receiving cancels add to the cover, stains or hand written notes do not, but I show it. I actually enjoy looking at arithmetic done by hand, and maybe others do too.
For modern first day covers, this is as close as I get to a generic photo. I will get a stack of the very same cover... Artcraft Cachet, not addressed, not sealed and machine FDOI cancel in the same basic position. I will run the Buy It Now listing showing I have 5-10-15 copies of that cover. They sell just fine, and it saves me having to create another listing every time I sell a cover.
For first day covers that are addressed, have different placement of postmark, extra postmark on back etc. Those all are listed as unique.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
19 Aug 2023
10:08:26pm
re: Generic images
"I actually enjoy looking at arithmetic done by hand, and maybe others do too."
You made me remember that I have a few covers with calculations on them. I think it's kind of neat that people would just grab envelopes they have lying around to figure out grocery bills or whatever!! I'm sure some people think it takes away from the cover but I think it adds that little extra personal touch!
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