Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
How many SOR members think right and proper proof stamps are always without perfs.?
" " normally come with perfs?
1898
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I don't know a lot about proofs, but I've always thought they are not perforated, nor gummed.
See photo, $1 is a stamp, $3 is a proof on card.
I don't understand a lot about proofs from the 19th century. How were they distributed? When did they stop distributing them? I know I see early proofs all the time, but I cannot find one for my 1903 Ben Franklin One Cent (Scott 300).
I also don't understand why proofs are cheaper than the stamp they represent. That's why I have a $3 Columbian as a proof. Wouldn't the proofs be out there in lower quantities than the stamp? So logic says they should be more expensive...
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10:32:22pm
I have a question. What is the difference between a "proof" and a "specimen"? Quite often proofs have the word specimen on them, but not always. I can't remember the number but I have a specimen of one of the high value Australian kangaroo stamps that is perforated and I think I paid a bit too much for it. But if I check my Canada Unitrade all the proof/specimen stamps are imperforate. It is a little confusing to my simple mind!! 
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An essay is a design for a proposed stamp submitted to the postal authorities for consideration but not approved, or approved after alterations have been made.
By contrast, a proof is a trial printing of an accepted stamp. Of course, proofs can be perforate or imperforate. Proofs are special printings of stamps in the same design as the finished stamp, usually made before a stamp is issued, to check the quality of the die or printing plate, check ink colors, provide a record for official archives, or to provide a special format of the stamp for a stamp's engraver, public officials, or collectors. Proofs having limited production can sometimes command a premium on the collector market.
Specimen stamps are postage stamps that serve as examples. They are marked to prevent their usage as postage. Specimen stamps are most often overprinted "SPECIMEN," "MUESTRA," "SAGGIO," "MUSTER," or the equivalent terms in other languages. Specimen stamps might also be marked by being punched, perfin, hand-stamped or inscribed. Specimen stamps typically are distributed to the Universal Postal Union and to individual postal authorities as examples of what stamps that are valid for postage look like. Others may be produced as samples for approval by the issuing authority. In this circumstance, if rejected, they may be different from the issued stamp in design or color, and hence be quite collectible. Others may be produced just to satisfy collectors.
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I checked Ebay for proofs. here is what I found out.
I checked 2,400 stamps
Found 25 that were perf.
New subject: I found 2 proofs of U.S.A. Scott #300, Series of 1902. SOR member said 1903?
1898
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I do not think that the poll question is specific enough. It appears to me that the thread that spawned this poll was a thread about Costa Rica proof?
Is the question about US proofs or proofs from anywhere in the world? Does the question include illegitimate perforations? Many US proofs were originally imperforated and perforated afterwards by those looking to deceive collectors. As such, I am unsure what it means when 1898 says ‘I checked 2,400 stamps’ and ‘Found 25 that were perf’.
Perhaps I am missing something but I don’t get this survey.
Don
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Let me say this before this thread goes further....Thankyou Terry! Great explanation.
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I don't understand "As such, I am unsure what it means when 1898 says ‘I checked 2,400 stamps’ and ‘Found 25 that were perf’."? On Ebay I searched Proofs and looked at the first number and found the second number and posted my right and proper results. Am I'm unclear, is there a better way to say it???
1898
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1898,
Are you talking about just US or worldwide proofs?
Are you talking about legitimate perforated proofs or did your count fake perforated proofs masquerading as legitimate stamps? Given your proclivity for posting mis-described listings, I would be surprised if you did include the numerous US listings of proofs which have been illegitimately perforated to deceive collectors.
As an aside, there is a good write up on US Card Proofs of the 19th Century proofs by Greg Waldecker on Stamp Smarter here;
https://stampsmarter.org/proof/cardproof ...
Don
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Last night I searched Ebay for all proofs, but looked at any and all no matter where they came from.
I have no idea how to tell faked perfs. on a proof from the images from Ebay, please tell me how to do this!
It was just a simple thing to do thought everyone would like the results I got.
1898
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I'm with Don on this one.
If the question is regarding US proofs, I am unaware of any legitimately perforated proofs. That's not to say that someone on eBay didn't post a specimen or even a facsimile and call it a proof. I would not take all descriptions on eBay as accurate. If the topic is worldwide, I have no idea.
I also agree with Tom that it makes no sense that proofs are so darn affordable in some cases. You can get a set of proofs for O68-O71 for under $100 if you are patient. (At least I was able to a few years ago). I still have a proof for O69 in my collection waiting until I can get the real thing!
https://stamps.colp.info/pages/O4.htm
Lars
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01:23:59am
Are Jim Beam or Hiram Walker contributors to this thread ???
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1898:-
There is nothing "simple" in the stamp collecting world.
I stay away from "proofs" and treat them like nuclear waste.
Any idiot can call a "proof" a "proof".
I have never found a "proof" for sale on the internet that has a cast iron provenance.
When one considers that there are many, many, many forgeries of everyday stamps available on the internet I would be extremely doubtful of any "proofs" or "specimen" marked stamps.
Besides even the so called "experts" can disagree.
In all cases of purchases on the internet "Buyer Beware"!
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10:00:22pm
I've never thought about it before, I always assumed proof stamps are never perf.
How many SOR members think right and proper proof stamps are always without perfs.?
" " normally come with perfs?
1898
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re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
I don't know a lot about proofs, but I've always thought they are not perforated, nor gummed.
See photo, $1 is a stamp, $3 is a proof on card.
I don't understand a lot about proofs from the 19th century. How were they distributed? When did they stop distributing them? I know I see early proofs all the time, but I cannot find one for my 1903 Ben Franklin One Cent (Scott 300).
I also don't understand why proofs are cheaper than the stamp they represent. That's why I have a $3 Columbian as a proof. Wouldn't the proofs be out there in lower quantities than the stamp? So logic says they should be more expensive...
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
02 Oct 2023
10:32:22pm
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
I have a question. What is the difference between a "proof" and a "specimen"? Quite often proofs have the word specimen on them, but not always. I can't remember the number but I have a specimen of one of the high value Australian kangaroo stamps that is perforated and I think I paid a bit too much for it. But if I check my Canada Unitrade all the proof/specimen stamps are imperforate. It is a little confusing to my simple mind!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
An essay is a design for a proposed stamp submitted to the postal authorities for consideration but not approved, or approved after alterations have been made.
By contrast, a proof is a trial printing of an accepted stamp. Of course, proofs can be perforate or imperforate. Proofs are special printings of stamps in the same design as the finished stamp, usually made before a stamp is issued, to check the quality of the die or printing plate, check ink colors, provide a record for official archives, or to provide a special format of the stamp for a stamp's engraver, public officials, or collectors. Proofs having limited production can sometimes command a premium on the collector market.
Specimen stamps are postage stamps that serve as examples. They are marked to prevent their usage as postage. Specimen stamps are most often overprinted "SPECIMEN," "MUESTRA," "SAGGIO," "MUSTER," or the equivalent terms in other languages. Specimen stamps might also be marked by being punched, perfin, hand-stamped or inscribed. Specimen stamps typically are distributed to the Universal Postal Union and to individual postal authorities as examples of what stamps that are valid for postage look like. Others may be produced as samples for approval by the issuing authority. In this circumstance, if rejected, they may be different from the issued stamp in design or color, and hence be quite collectible. Others may be produced just to satisfy collectors.
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01:41:04am
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
I checked Ebay for proofs. here is what I found out.
I checked 2,400 stamps
Found 25 that were perf.
New subject: I found 2 proofs of U.S.A. Scott #300, Series of 1902. SOR member said 1903?
1898
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this post
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
I do not think that the poll question is specific enough. It appears to me that the thread that spawned this poll was a thread about Costa Rica proof?
Is the question about US proofs or proofs from anywhere in the world? Does the question include illegitimate perforations? Many US proofs were originally imperforated and perforated afterwards by those looking to deceive collectors. As such, I am unsure what it means when 1898 says ‘I checked 2,400 stamps’ and ‘Found 25 that were perf’.
Perhaps I am missing something but I don’t get this survey.
Don
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re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
Let me say this before this thread goes further....Thankyou Terry! Great explanation.
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10:07:50pm
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
I don't understand "As such, I am unsure what it means when 1898 says ‘I checked 2,400 stamps’ and ‘Found 25 that were perf’."? On Ebay I searched Proofs and looked at the first number and found the second number and posted my right and proper results. Am I'm unclear, is there a better way to say it???
1898
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this post
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
1898,
Are you talking about just US or worldwide proofs?
Are you talking about legitimate perforated proofs or did your count fake perforated proofs masquerading as legitimate stamps? Given your proclivity for posting mis-described listings, I would be surprised if you did include the numerous US listings of proofs which have been illegitimately perforated to deceive collectors.
As an aside, there is a good write up on US Card Proofs of the 19th Century proofs by Greg Waldecker on Stamp Smarter here;
https://stampsmarter.org/proof/cardproof ...
Don
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11:20:13pm
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
Last night I searched Ebay for all proofs, but looked at any and all no matter where they came from.
I have no idea how to tell faked perfs. on a proof from the images from Ebay, please tell me how to do this!
It was just a simple thing to do thought everyone would like the results I got.
1898
Login to Like
this post
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
I'm with Don on this one.
If the question is regarding US proofs, I am unaware of any legitimately perforated proofs. That's not to say that someone on eBay didn't post a specimen or even a facsimile and call it a proof. I would not take all descriptions on eBay as accurate. If the topic is worldwide, I have no idea.
I also agree with Tom that it makes no sense that proofs are so darn affordable in some cases. You can get a set of proofs for O68-O71 for under $100 if you are patient. (At least I was able to a few years ago). I still have a proof for O69 in my collection waiting until I can get the real thing!
https://stamps.colp.info/pages/O4.htm
Lars
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Oct 2023
01:23:59am
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
Are Jim Beam or Hiram Walker contributors to this thread ???
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05:29:08am
re: Poll: How Many SOR Members think Proof come with Perfs.?
1898:-
There is nothing "simple" in the stamp collecting world.
I stay away from "proofs" and treat them like nuclear waste.
Any idiot can call a "proof" a "proof".
I have never found a "proof" for sale on the internet that has a cast iron provenance.
When one considers that there are many, many, many forgeries of everyday stamps available on the internet I would be extremely doubtful of any "proofs" or "specimen" marked stamps.
Besides even the so called "experts" can disagree.
In all cases of purchases on the internet "Buyer Beware"!
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