Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Well if that wasn't just full of Christmas cheer.....
I would hate to see that institution bite the dust.
Mike
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This is not unexpected.
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I looked at SG's 2022 statement and the issue the £3.687 expense is one le As I read the notes, this include loans and expenses related to prior business activities. The 2022 statement said it would not likely to be able to pay off a debt due in March 2023.
More overhead is in the "selling and distribution expenses".
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Via email, 27 Dec:
Strand Collectibles Group
Good morning,
Despite strong growth in auctions this year and new partnerships in publications, Stanley Gibbons Group has been unable to find a solution to its long-standing historic liabilities which includes legacy acquisitions, leases and debt. The Group explored all options to resolve these liabilities however it was unable to find a satisfactory solution.
As a result, Strand Collectibles Group Ltd has bought the business and assets of Stanley Gibbons Ltd and A.H. Baldwin & Sons Ltd as part of a pre-pack administration process managed by PwC on 22nd December 2023. All operations, the senior management team, all employees, both brands, all inventory, all items on consignment for auctions and storage, and all other intellectual property and assets have transferred to the new company, Strand Collectibles Group.
Strand Collectibles Group will continue to offer auctions, dealing, private treaty, publications for stamps, coins, medals and other collectibles as before and has secured new investment to develop these services further. The first development is the launch of our new auctions website www.baldwins.co (note: the new domain is .co not .co.uk or .com) which will play host to our numismatic, trading cards and Stanley Gibbons curated philatelic auctions starting with the Stamps and Covers of Asia auction on the 10th January.
Under the ownership of Strand Collectibles Group, Stanley Gibbons will continue to serve the needs of philatelists with catalogues, magazines, albums and accessories, dealing and auctions and will be launching a new digital stamp collecting experience later in the year. Our website remains the same: www.stanleygibbons.com
We have listed FAQs to help answer any questions you may have.
This is an important moment in the long history of Stanley Gibbons and Baldwins and everyone at Strand Collectibles Group is excited about the future and we look forward to helping you to develop your collection in 2024 and beyond.
Tom Pickford
CEO, Strand Collectibles Group
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So the CEO of the new "Strand Collectibles Group" running Stanley Gibbons was the CEO Of Stanley Gibbons.
In other words it looks like we'll form a new company, declare administration of the old, that way all debts are written off and the poor suppliers to Gibbons lose out!! But the owners of the new company are "I'm All Right Jack!".
Of course in "Good Old Blighty" it is all perfectly legal!!
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To be clear, Tom Pickford is not at the top of the food chain, so it's not like they've simply whitewashed SG but it continues to be run into the ground by the usual suspects. SCG is being run under the watchful eyes of Castelnau Group, which is part of Phoenix Asset Management. As PAM did with other hobby businesses -- Hornby/Airfix/Corgi -- the business was purchased as a permanent investment to turn it around and operate it as a responsible, ongoing, thriving business, not as a virtual Ponzi scheme, as in the past.
TTSC
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It still means that those that are creditors will see little or any of the monies due them.
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Yes, that's true. But it's not because of this action. The creditors were already being shafted by SG, with no hope of ever being paid. This administration action merely pulls the trigger on the inevitable. At least the creditors can expect some percentage of the debts to be repaid, over a perid of years, while the alternative - bankruptcy and liquidation - would mean only the debtors at the top of the pecking order getting some scratch, and everybody else getting zilch.
TTSC
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SG's downfall, to me, seems to have been that they lost sight of the hobby, and tried to be the investment vehicle for the rich folks who could afford the expensive stamps and collections.
Trouble is there are far fewer of them than us less wealthy collectors. I appreciate that they make more profit from the sale of a multi thousand £ item, but sell fewer of them. Whereas the little sales add up and are more continuos and ultimately show a greater profit. Perhaps they should have revamped as a supplier to the trade, rather than a public sales outlet.
Just my thoughts.
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It all depends on who is leading the company. I have seen quite a few companies go to and almost go to the wall simply by poor executive decisions. I have met a few that can talk the talk but cannot walk the walk, resulting in closures and redundancies.
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Back in 2014, CEO Mike Hall said their goal was to be "the Amazon of collectibles." So they expanded into medals, Pokemon cards, antique furniture, and Ponzi guaranteed investment schemes. They simply didn't have the resources to do justice to every field they went into.
TTSC
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The quantity and price you sell at determines whether all overheads, wages and other purchases are met and before a profit is made.
I have seen diversification being a godsend to a company but also seen it cause the destruction of a company. It has to be carefully researched and managed without damage to the core of the business.
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Groups owning groups with layers invites high overhead. A new name does not solve the issue of debt and overhead unless it is reduced. Did this group (some of the orginal players) buy the goodies and none of the debt?
2022 year end financial details.
In this it notes that they did not believe SG could pay a March 2023 loan (no cash?).
https://www.annualreports.com/HostedData ...
The report tries to show each group has a good gross profit margin before you apply sales expenses and overhead and then the outstanding debt. They should allocate the selling expense to each group so the true cost is seen.
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When litigated, the court may well find that the transfer of Stanley Gibbon's assets to the new entity was made to avoid paying their creditors. Which may mean that the court will unwind the transaction and make the assets available to the creditors. I can't imagine that SG's creditors will sit still. We'll see.
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One key creditor is Phoenix and so intertwined as the new management are some of the old management.
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/re ...
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08:37:04pm
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
Well if that wasn't just full of Christmas cheer.....
I would hate to see that institution bite the dust.
Mike
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this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
This is not unexpected.
Login to Like
this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
I looked at SG's 2022 statement and the issue the £3.687 expense is one le As I read the notes, this include loans and expenses related to prior business activities. The 2022 statement said it would not likely to be able to pay off a debt due in March 2023.
More overhead is in the "selling and distribution expenses".
Login to Like
this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
Via email, 27 Dec:
Strand Collectibles Group
Good morning,
Despite strong growth in auctions this year and new partnerships in publications, Stanley Gibbons Group has been unable to find a solution to its long-standing historic liabilities which includes legacy acquisitions, leases and debt. The Group explored all options to resolve these liabilities however it was unable to find a satisfactory solution.
As a result, Strand Collectibles Group Ltd has bought the business and assets of Stanley Gibbons Ltd and A.H. Baldwin & Sons Ltd as part of a pre-pack administration process managed by PwC on 22nd December 2023. All operations, the senior management team, all employees, both brands, all inventory, all items on consignment for auctions and storage, and all other intellectual property and assets have transferred to the new company, Strand Collectibles Group.
Strand Collectibles Group will continue to offer auctions, dealing, private treaty, publications for stamps, coins, medals and other collectibles as before and has secured new investment to develop these services further. The first development is the launch of our new auctions website www.baldwins.co (note: the new domain is .co not .co.uk or .com) which will play host to our numismatic, trading cards and Stanley Gibbons curated philatelic auctions starting with the Stamps and Covers of Asia auction on the 10th January.
Under the ownership of Strand Collectibles Group, Stanley Gibbons will continue to serve the needs of philatelists with catalogues, magazines, albums and accessories, dealing and auctions and will be launching a new digital stamp collecting experience later in the year. Our website remains the same: www.stanleygibbons.com
We have listed FAQs to help answer any questions you may have.
This is an important moment in the long history of Stanley Gibbons and Baldwins and everyone at Strand Collectibles Group is excited about the future and we look forward to helping you to develop your collection in 2024 and beyond.
Tom Pickford
CEO, Strand Collectibles Group
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this post
09:37:11am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
So the CEO of the new "Strand Collectibles Group" running Stanley Gibbons was the CEO Of Stanley Gibbons.
In other words it looks like we'll form a new company, declare administration of the old, that way all debts are written off and the poor suppliers to Gibbons lose out!! But the owners of the new company are "I'm All Right Jack!".
Of course in "Good Old Blighty" it is all perfectly legal!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
To be clear, Tom Pickford is not at the top of the food chain, so it's not like they've simply whitewashed SG but it continues to be run into the ground by the usual suspects. SCG is being run under the watchful eyes of Castelnau Group, which is part of Phoenix Asset Management. As PAM did with other hobby businesses -- Hornby/Airfix/Corgi -- the business was purchased as a permanent investment to turn it around and operate it as a responsible, ongoing, thriving business, not as a virtual Ponzi scheme, as in the past.
TTSC
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this post
10:37:15am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
It still means that those that are creditors will see little or any of the monies due them.
Login to Like
this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
Yes, that's true. But it's not because of this action. The creditors were already being shafted by SG, with no hope of ever being paid. This administration action merely pulls the trigger on the inevitable. At least the creditors can expect some percentage of the debts to be repaid, over a perid of years, while the alternative - bankruptcy and liquidation - would mean only the debtors at the top of the pecking order getting some scratch, and everybody else getting zilch.
TTSC
Login to Like
this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
SG's downfall, to me, seems to have been that they lost sight of the hobby, and tried to be the investment vehicle for the rich folks who could afford the expensive stamps and collections.
Trouble is there are far fewer of them than us less wealthy collectors. I appreciate that they make more profit from the sale of a multi thousand £ item, but sell fewer of them. Whereas the little sales add up and are more continuos and ultimately show a greater profit. Perhaps they should have revamped as a supplier to the trade, rather than a public sales outlet.
Just my thoughts.
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like this post.
Login to Like.
12:41:11pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
It all depends on who is leading the company. I have seen quite a few companies go to and almost go to the wall simply by poor executive decisions. I have met a few that can talk the talk but cannot walk the walk, resulting in closures and redundancies.
Login to Like
this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
Back in 2014, CEO Mike Hall said their goal was to be "the Amazon of collectibles." So they expanded into medals, Pokemon cards, antique furniture, and Ponzi guaranteed investment schemes. They simply didn't have the resources to do justice to every field they went into.
TTSC
Login to Like
this post
03:50:57pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
The quantity and price you sell at determines whether all overheads, wages and other purchases are met and before a profit is made.
I have seen diversification being a godsend to a company but also seen it cause the destruction of a company. It has to be carefully researched and managed without damage to the core of the business.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
Groups owning groups with layers invites high overhead. A new name does not solve the issue of debt and overhead unless it is reduced. Did this group (some of the orginal players) buy the goodies and none of the debt?
2022 year end financial details.
In this it notes that they did not believe SG could pay a March 2023 loan (no cash?).
https://www.annualreports.com/HostedData ...
The report tries to show each group has a good gross profit margin before you apply sales expenses and overhead and then the outstanding debt. They should allocate the selling expense to each group so the true cost is seen.
Login to Like
this post
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
When litigated, the court may well find that the transfer of Stanley Gibbon's assets to the new entity was made to avoid paying their creditors. Which may mean that the court will unwind the transaction and make the assets available to the creditors. I can't imagine that SG's creditors will sit still. We'll see.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Gibbons seeks financial recovery
One key creditor is Phoenix and so intertwined as the new management are some of the old management.
Login to Like
this post