Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
This has been a hot topic of contention lately across the topics on this forum that has ruined some very good threads and I really don't understand why?
When I have been asked to do it and a few others here who have done it too. Some pretty interesting discoveries have been made. At least for me some errors, freaks and oddities have been discovered, watermarks positively identified various different varieties of what one might consider common but are anything but common. Potential new color shade varieties is another fine example of the results from scanning the backs of stamps. Correctly identifying perforation diameters is another example. I could think of many other good reasons for making the request to see the back of the stamp especially when someone is asking for help with identifying a stamp.
So here is a couple of rhetorical questions for those that get absolutely bent out of shape when asked to provide a scan of the back side of a stamp. Why does it bother you guys so much to do so when asked? Especially when some of you are dealers and list the items for sale when you get free help to identify your stamps and you guys who do make a successful sale as result. Where is the gratitude for the individuals making such a request that you benefit from? It is almost
nonexistent is the answer to that test for those wondering.
I've seen the arguments that it is a waste of time or it doesn't help etc... Granted nothing is ever fool proof and we are all human who are not infallible. But it is an honest effort to help out not to bother or inconvenience anyone. Here is the solution for those that don't like it. Don't honor the request and let your thread go by way of the Dodo bird and die or better yet don't ask for other members to help at all if such a request is that much of an imposition.
The way I see it is. There are many more who benefit from scanning the backs of their stamps than those who don't.
Jeremy
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Hi Jeremy,
I do not dispute the potential benefits, but there have been many occasions in which the advice made no sense. When I ask if someone can identify a certain stamp, I fail to see how a scan of the back might help. It is a bit like when you go to a garage because one of the lights of your car is broken and the mechanic asks if you have checked the tire pressure.
It could be funny if it were just a single remark, but when it becomes a mantra or catchphrase, it gets annoying. Especially when the reply on my question what I could learn from looking at the back is either a "I don't know" or is not given at all.
That is just my point of view, and I have the impression that many others do not get the joke either, or are fed up with this stuck record of a reply.
Best regards,
Jan-Simon
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10:44:38am
If I show a page or a bunch of stamps showing the back is not easy or practical. If I just am referring to something on the front of a stamp like a post mark, re-entry, etc. there is no need to show the back. If the back is important or if there is something interesting there I will show it. This whole thing is turning into a bit of a joke and I am getting very tired of it! This is my opinion and is not meant to be insulting!
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Finally we have a break through of some feedback to the subject. I can understand those feelings.
If I can be honest here. The first time I did it I was most certainly skeptical like many others have been and strongly expressed in some of the threads even making the idea into a running joke of sorts and like I pointed out in my OP has ruined some very good threads. I'm sure even causing some member losses. Now with all of that said.
I am of the very strong opinion that there is absolutely no reason or excuse for some of the personal attacks that have taken place however subtle they are. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior.
As far as making or poking a little fun at the topic I'll admit that I'm guilty of doing so. But it has never been my intention to bully, berate, intimidate or threaten anyone into conforming to my way of thinking. That is why I'm not a politician nor will I ever be. Pun intended. I don't have the patients for it anyway.
If any of my past comments have offended anyone then I sincerely apologize.
Furthermore if anyone ever takes issue with what I post then send me a private message to resolve the matters like adults not children.
Jeremy
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"But it has never been my intention to bully, berate, intimidate or threaten anyone into conforming to my way of thinking. That is why I'm not a politician nor will I ever be. Pun intended."
Very tempting to make a comment about this, but we have rules not to touch politics, so I won't. But it is burning on the tip of my tongue
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I hear you loud and clear.
Jeremy
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I agree with Sarge. It seems reasonable to ask stamp sellers and dealers to supply images of the backs of stamps if the backs are anything but post-office-fresh in the case of mint stamps, and undamaged in the case of used stamps. (A note about hinges: I have no patience with collectors who complain about used, hinged stamps being offered without an explanation that they are hinged. Buy ‘em and soak ‘em!)
My concern extends further, to the backs of covers. I have covers which, if scanned only from the front, seem common. From the back, though? An example follows; it’s the front of a cover posted in 1940 from Krefeld, Germany, to Buenos Aires:
Here’s the back, with return address, censor tape, a Nazi postmark, and various arithmetic calculations:
Only one thing makes this cover especially collectible, at least as far as I'm concerned. It’s the typed return address: "Carl Isr.Kaufmann".
Kaufmann was a German Jew. In 193a, shortly after Hitler came to power, the new Nuremberg Laws stipulated that all Jews in Germany were required to include the middle name Israel, if they were male, or Sarah (or "Sara," apparently) if they were female, every time they wrote their name on official documents or on international male. The “Isr.” in the return address stands for "Israel". The following explains the background:
Frick served as Minister of the Interior in Adolf Hitler's cabinet from 1933 to 1943 and as the last governor of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. He was convicted of war crimes in the Nuremberg Trials and was hanged in 1946.
Kaufmann almost certainly perished in the Holocaust. Krefeld had had a substantial Jewish population before the war. After the war, not a single Jew remained in Krefeld. “Aryan” residents of Krefeld claimed they were unaware that their Jewish neighbours were being “disappeared”.
It’s only the back of the cover reveals that it was censored. Perhaps the use of the back of the cover as a scratchpad is evidence of a paper shortage in Argentina. Paper was in short supply around the world because pulp mill workers were going to war and supply chains were being severed through the disruption of normal trade; enemies don’t generally trade with enemies, unless one of them happens to be Henry Ford and the other happens to be Adolph Hitler. In 1940, German U-boats were sinking every “allied”* freighter they could find in the Atlantic, the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Mediterranean, and some of those freighters were carrying pulp and paper products from the U.S. and Canada that were vital to the “allies”.
I probably wouldn’t have bought the cover if I couldn’t have seen the back. The return address makes the cover, if not rare, at least historical. Several similar covers are currently available on eBay, ranging in price from $150 to more than $300. Those are way overpriced in my opinion, from a dealer who routinely overprices all of his postal history; I probably paid $15 to $25 for most of my “Israel” and “Sara” covers, from another dealer, Roy Lingen, who does not overcharge and provides excellent service.
I could go on, about the backs and fronts of used picture postcards, but I’ll save that for another post, assuming that this thread doesn’t get too “political” and ends up in post Limbo.
Bob
* The terms “Allied” and “Allies” arose out of the term “United Nations,” proposed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in December, 1941, to describe the coalition of nations opposed Germany, Italy, and Japan.
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Carl Kaufmann from Krefeld (b 28/4/81) has an intriguing listing in holocaust records. It seems that he may have survived and moved to Buenos Aires, but genealogical research might be needed to go any further
https://www.ushmm.org/online/hsv/person_ ...
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Bob,
Finally someone else who understands where Im coming from.
Thank you!!!
Dealers take some notes!!!
Jeremy
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@DaveSheridan, who wrote, "Carl Kaufmann from Krefeld (b 28/4/81) has an intriguing listing in holocaust records. It seems that he may have survived and moved to Buenos Aires…"
Well that's interesting! I went to the website you suggested, requested the document listing Carl Kaufmann, and instantly received it. Here's the document, FYI:
It doesn't provide much more information, does bear more looking into! I'll have to do some translations, but...thank you! Altogether, one more reason to appreciate postal history and Stamporama's helpful members!
Bob
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Bob that is absolutely amazing history and you own a piece. How can anyone top that? Bravo Bob Bravo!!!
Jeremy
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Great story!
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"Dealers take some notes!!!
Jeremy"
Buyers take note. Due to the added time required to remove stamps from hagners, flip them over, rescan, separate images and so on, prices have increased by 10%.
It's a double-edged sword
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11:27:13am
"Due to the added time required to remove stamps from hagners, flip them over, rescan, separate images and so on, prices have increased by 10%."
And that's only for items that sell for a few dollars or more each. For a page of 10c items, 10% won't cut it.
Roy
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If you are going to take the time to quote a fragment of my original post and get stuck on that as a topic from a dealers singular perspective and worrying about a 10% rise in cost for the buyer as an example. It is a simple solution. Don't do it. Or do it and inform the buyer of the percentage rate rise in cost before the close of the sale/transaction is completed.
Make it a case by case consideration. That is what I'd do and leave it at that.
I've sold stamps plus many other things in the past over the internet which is one of the most important points to the topic and you are correct time is money. I believe that's the point you are trying to make. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
But consider these points too.
How many potential or repeat customers will you lose because of not considering that simple request?
How much time which equals money is lost for both parties in the event of a returned item if one accept returns at all? There is shipping, placing the item back in inventory, re-listing etc...
Then you lose more business if the unhappy customers leave a bad review. Most people are intelligent enough to understand that you cant please everyone. That is just how the world is.
How many potential customers are watching this thread unfold over the internet right now? Too many to count is the answer to that test.
I'll say this much if I were to sell a stamp that would make me money in the 3 digit range and to complete the sale especially for an international sale. You're darned right I'd take a scan or a photo of the back to ensure the customer was happy with its identification. But that is just me and my opinion. Share it or don't. Use your own freewill and live with the decision. That is what everyone on this planet we call home must do everyday wether we want admit it or not.
Here is a dirty little secret. When I take scans/photos of the backs of my stamps for research, positive identification, sales or any other reason that floats my boat. I typically use my camera phone and have a digital scanner on standby.
I have tried to help by sharing my perspective and experience. Now I am going to break contact and get out of the weeds on this subject. I have better things to do.
Jeremy
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Of course a lot people on here forget this is a club, not a multi-national company. A number of sellers on here are not "Dealers".
What sellers /buyers on this system do is up to them as individuals.
Sellers cannot/ will not try and cover every buyers individual foibles. Buyers should not expect sellers to jump through hoops for their individual "requirements" especially for a stamp selling at less than $30.
As a Seller I will list whatever I want at the price I want full stop. If a buyer makes a "reasonable" request I will try and accommodate. If it is an "unreasonable" request then tough I will not follow through.
Nobody puts a gun to a buyers head to force them to buy. As a seller no buyer will put a gun to my head to force me to alter my sales conditions. If a buyer does not like them then tough.
It always makes me laugh when someone starts telling folkies on how to sell or increase their sales by this means or that means.
As long as the seller is happy in what they are doing then the world can go hang!
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I would never tell a stamp seller/dealer what he or she should do to ensure sales success. But any person who decides to engage in any business must understand a basic truism of capitalism: I you offer what I want to buy in a way that makes it possible, I will buy. If you don't offer what I want to buy in a way that makes it possible, then I won't buy. Ergo, if a dealer/buyer fails to deliver what his or her customers want, he or she won't do very well.
If a seller/dealer won't bother to inform me if a mint stamp is hinged, or otherwise damaged, or in pristine condition, then I won't buy it. By the same token, if he or she won't bother to inform me what's on the back of a cover, or what isn't on the back of a cover, then I won't buy it. That doesn't seem like rocket science to me!
Bob
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I very rarely scan the reverse of stamps. I scan at 800dpi for small stamps, 600dpi for larger stamps and 400dpi for sets and covers. I describe condition accurately and thoroughly, and price accordingly.
In all my years of dealing, I think I've had less than half-a-dozen requests for back scans, and I have never had an item returned. I offer a full no-quibble refund, and no-one has ever taken me up on it.
The back scan doesn't sell stamps. Quality, attention to detail, thoroughness and customer service all outweigh a back scan immeasurably
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Don't you just love this system of stamporama especially the discussion board.
I always laugh at the inputs of folkies telling sellers what is what and what sellers should do.
WHEN
Few, if any posters on this thread actually sell on here!
OR
Seldom or even buy on here!
We have a saying in Old Caledonia "Empty vessels make the most noise"
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@ Brechinite:
I rarely “buy here” because “here” offers almost nothing in the way of stamps or covers that I need or want. But are you saying that sellers don’t appreciate having potential or actual buyers express opinions about what they want to buy? And that sellers don’t appreciate suggestions about the way the stamps (and covers) are scanned and otherwise described? Interesting.
Bob
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Bob
I also notice that you do not sell here.
Surely you have some items surplus to your requirements why not sell them to like members here. You never know, YOU selling may encourage others to do so and they might in turn sell their items which might, just might be of interest to you.
We have a saying in Old Caledonia " What goes around comes around".
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@ Brechinite:
You’re right, I don’t sell here or anywhere. I did once try selling approvals, but got badly ripped off a couple times. But, mainly, I just don’t want the hassles involved in the piecemeal selling of stamps, covers, or anything. I am actually readying a mailing of covers and some stamps to an auction house, but that’s easy compared to the endless tasks that selling stamps on-line would entail.
Bob
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Bob
Aye its a lot easier to bung stuff into a box for an auction house to sell than listing it individually for fellow collectors or hassle merchants.
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Too late, Sarge. I think I still have some useful things to say. Like what I'm saying now!
---
Here’s my rant about the sellers of used picture postcards:
Some people collect postcards for the pictures, while others collect them for the messages on the back. I once bought a postcard purely for the message, though the picture is somewhat useful:
This postcard was posted from U.S.S. Haven, a U.S. Navy hospital ship. In 1954, the year it was mailed, Haven had had a distinguished career. It fought in the Battle of Okinawa in 1945 and was the first hospital ship to have helicopter landing pads added to its stern, shortening the transit time from battlefield to hospital for wounded soldiers.
Haven’s history is interesting to me because I was wounded in Vietnam and evacuated by helicopter to another Haven-class hospital ship, U.S.S. Repose, in 1966.
During the pandemic, I built a model of Repose, using a kit intended to replicate Haven. I added details unique to Haven, including homemade decals. The photograph is of the South Vietnamese coast, taken from the deck of the amphibious landing ship U.S.S. Paul Revere, the evening before we landed in Quang Ngai Province:
The postcard from Haven was written on October 1, 1954. The Battle of Dien Bien Phu had ended in a communist victory over French colonial forces on May 7, 1954. Thousands of French soldiers became POWs and many died during their imprisonment. When surviving soldiers were repatriated, the U.S. Navy volunteered to transport them to Oran, Algeria and then on to France. The postcard was mailed by a Haven crewman after the ship transited the Suez Canal and before arriving in Oran. This postcard is one of the earliest artifacts in my collection illustrating the secret U.S. involvement in South Vietnam’s conflict against the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.
If the dealer I bought the postcard from had only shown me its front, I’d have thought, ”Meh!” The picture of a Japanese national park on the front has nothing to do with the history of U.S.S. Haven. It only shows that the ship likely spent time in Japan, probably in Yokosuka, where I was stationed for two years before being shanghaied by the Marines. Fortunately, I saw the back of the postcard and added it to my collection, where it holds a place of honour.
I’ve been buying postcards for both their pictures and messages on their backs for at least the last 20 years, during which time I’ve encountered dealers who only scan the picture side of picture postcards. The only way you can sometimes tell if a postcard is used is that impressions from the cancellations show on the picture side, but that certainly says nothing about the message on the back, assuming there is a message.
I’ve also known postal history dealers who never show you the backs of covers, which can be a problem, as I’ve indicated in another post in this thread.
It makes no sense to me for a business person, even if he or she is “just” a casual seller of stamps, postcards, and covers, not to cater to anyon who might have an interest in the backs of their artifacts. Scans of the backs certainly aren’t always necessary. If there’s nothing of interest on the back, the dealer can just say so! Computers can make that as easy as pressing a key.
There! Rant over!
Bob
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You win Bob!!!
I deleted my previous post. The thread continues. Here is an FYI for all of the SOR members. I will be out of the net for the next couple of days for sure maybe even a little longer because I'll be going under the knife for a hip replacement tomorrow. Stay tuned and keep this thread going and some of the others I started.
Jeremy
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This is an interesting discussion to which I have a few things to say. First of all, scanning both sides of a postcard makes a lot of sense, even when the card is unused. But secondly, and in my case more importantly, the discussion now seems to focus on what sellers should or should not do, where much of the annoyance stemmed from the fact that showing the back of a stamp was proposed in every discussion as a solution to every problem. To give you an example, in a thread I started I showed a picture of a selection of stamps that were blatant forgeries in my opinion. They were offered on a Dutch auction site. Writing a reply with the advice to show the back of the stamp is silly, to put it friendly. I do not have the stamps and how could the back of the stamp decide whether it is a forgery or not? Perhaps it is not silly at all, perhaps trolling is a better description.
Anyway, that is my main problem, not whether or not it is justified in order to increase sales. In my experience as a seller (note: seller, not dealer!) I have yet to encounter the first request for the back of a stamp by a potential buyer. Have I missed sales because I do not include those scans? Could be, but it has not hurt me. Sales are still satisfactory. The only reason I can think of for scanning the back is showing damages, but that only makes sense for expensive stamps. Other than that, the descriptions MH and MNH are often enough. used hinged / used unhinged: i have never had a buyer who refused a used stamp because of a hinge.
Besides that, Roy and Ian already mentioned this in their posts, I do not have the time to provide back scans for everything I offer. 80% of what I offer in the approvals is 10 cents stamps. Would more than doubling the time to prepare an approval book (it is not only making twice as much scans, but also turning each stamp twice) really result in significantly more sales? It is as rhetorical as a question can be.
As long as a buyer does not specifically and urgently requests the scan of the back, I do not bother.
Jan-Simon
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What I would like to say in conlusion is that :-
There are many, many, many sections, sectors and subsections within the field of philately and not one single person can have such a wide and varied knowledge of the millions of items possibly available.
The vast majority of members on Stamporama are just ordinary hard working honest folkies spending some of their time selling and buying to add to their collections.
We are human. We are each different in our own way.
If you want us all to be the same then you are fighting human nature.
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Sarge good luck, hope to see more interesting material when you return.
Again best of luck.
No KP for you!
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Hey Ian (Brechinite). Leave Bob (Bobstamp) alone!
He might have only bought a few stamps in 19 years, and sold none, but he is a fellow Canadian and a (future) generous donor to The Holocaust Stamps Project!
But seriously folks...
1) What is with the covers and all the numbers and crap written on the back? Did people take them to their bridge club back in the day as spare paper to use as a scratch pad? I can't believe how many nice old covers I've seen like that!
2) It is really fun and educational to look up names of senders/recipients. The info you can get (obviously primarily Holocaust-related for me) is sometimes astounding. I have (maybe "had" since I can't find it anymore) a cover from Edith Piaf to Django Reinhardt from the late 1940s (maybe early 1950s). Both had interesting - and perhaps controversial - experiences with the Nazis during WWII.
3) As a Socialist-Libertarian (a term unique to Canadians who want to please everyone) I figure buyers have the right to ask for scans of the back of any stamps they want - even 5c approval offerings. And sellers have the right to decline to do so on the basis of a reduction in revenue/profits or even pure laziness. Both parties have the right to neither buy from, or sell to, each other.
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I usually post scans both front and back on expensive items I put up for sale. When a buyer requests a back scan of a stamp I have listed, I have only declined once to do so. I'm guessing they were looking for watermark varieties on Germany B298-B301. I never had a buyer ask for a scan of cheap approval stamps, thank goodness! I would decline with certainty. According to Dave I am exhibiting "pure laziness". 
I can live with that small "reduction in revenue/profits".
As one seller said to me, requesting a scan is no guarantee they will buy the item.
(Lazy) Larry
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I keep all current bills on a table next to where I sit. The back and fronts get used for keeping a note of when bills need to be paid and also a running total of bank account balances. They are used for jotting down notes and even stamp want lists. Those not used get a second life as containers for stamps to be soaked, soaked ready to be sorted and even those sorted by country name.
As a genealogist I also look for related images and also any possible family connections, especially on the correspondence side.
Having found a grandfather who was a WW1 prisoner in Bad Langansalza, I keep a look out for any related to the prison camp at the time.
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HolocaustStamps:-
I've worked for the Hudson's Bay Company. I ken how you Canadians think and act.
All you care about is Huntin', Fishin', Poker and Hockey!
Heaven forbid you actually drink Labatts.
Thank god someone in Edmonton actually imported some good old Scottish MacEwans Export!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHqxzv1w ...
The best phrase I ever heard in Canada was "To Russia with Hull!"
You wouldna pick the best hockey player in the world to play for you!
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09:52:47am
"To Russia with Hull"
Bobby or Dennis? Bobby was probably the better player but Dennis, his brother, had the harder shot.
Sorry, this is off topic!!
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Harvey
It was Bobby and it was for the 8 game series against Russia in '72.
4 games in Canada, 4 in Russia. It went to the final game in Russia and Canada won the series with 20 seconds to go in the 3rd period. (if I remember correctly)
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11:42:27am
You're right on Ian, it never occurred to me that you were referring to the 1972 series. It's weird, I looked up the lineups and Bobby Hull wasn't mentioned. Was he in the WHA at the time, without checking I have no idea!!
"Team Canada (1972):
Goalies: Tony Esposito, Ken Dryden, Eddie Johnston
Defensemen: Bobby Orr, Guy Lapointe, Serge Savard, Brad Park, Rod Seiling
Forwards: Phil Esposito, Paul Henderson, Bobby Clarke, Frank Mahovlich, Yvan Cournoyer, Ron Ellis, Wayne Cashman, Jean-Paul Parise, Vic Hadfield, Richard Martin, Rod Gilbert, Mickey Redmond "
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Harvey
You are correct he was in the WHA not the NHL that's why he wasn't picked to go.
If my memory serves me well it was Phil Esposito that scored the winner in the 8th game. Do you remember that almost the whole Canadian Team launched themselves acrosss the ice to rescue the Team Manager and his wife from the Russian police during the game?
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Ian, Paul Henderson scored the winning goal for Canada in game 8.
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JohnnyStamp
My memory did not serve me well. (Sounds like a line from a song)
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I wish Canada Post would issue a long set commemorating the 1972 Series. My memories of the series are fading as well. The Canadian Team was made up of mostly famous players well past their prime. The Canadian team was cocky, ill prepared and were expecting a cake walk. To the shock of everyone, the Russians were good, darn good. Some would say better than Canadians. I remember the Canadian fans booing their own team, Phil Esposito imploring the fans not to lose faith. We won with heart, determination and some dirty tricks.
Larry
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06:37:47pm
"What is with the covers and all the numbers and crap written on the back"
I remember years ago discussing many things with my mother. One, and I can't remember why, was concerning the use of paper. It was not always easy to come by, remember in those days students used erasable slates in school because paper tended to be a bit expensive and hard to come by in some areas and homes. So if an envelope was at hand it got used for grocery lists and many other things. I have many scribbled on covers as well - it was what was done!!
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OK, I'll get back in to the convo, despite it going pear-shaped...
Ian: I despise American beer ("flavoured water" as we call it) and dislike most Canadian beer. Including Labatts which is brewed locally. I prefer Guinness and Becks - but nowadays the 0% as I don't drink alcohol anymore.
I played soccer (football) back in the day (late 1970s-early 1980s) at Uni, with a very culturally diverse gang (Something that apparently is considered horrible by Americans). So I learned to drink beer like Red Stripe, Urquel, Amstel, etc.
But I ramble...so I'm going fof a nap.
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@HolocaustStamps,
you said,
"I played soccer ... at Uni, with a very culturally diverse gang (Something that apparently is considered horrible by Americans)."
The current US population is a little over 340 million. Please do not insult all of us at once. Some Americans may consider it horrible just as some Canadians may consider it horrible.
Please do not take cheap shots at Americans; it will be WAY too easy to return fire.
Ernie
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Perhaps it's time to return to this topic "Scans of the backs of stamps"
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Now Now Ernie.
Be careful. We British would have to defend our Canadian cousins.
Remember Remember August 24th 1814.
EDIT
I think we have flogged to death the original subject
We are just having some fun.
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Ian, remember January 8, 1815.
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I think and hope the Moderator stops you guys (ernieinjax, Brechinite) from this stupid back and forth petty discussions!
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04:05:33pm
I really shouldn't get into this but... Sometimes the petty side conversations are fun, even though they are usually off topic. My suggestion is that if you don't like what is being said then don't read it! Most of these side conversations disappear after a few back and forths anyway so why bother. If they really get annoying all that usually needs to be done is have a moderator tell them to stop, that usually works. My opinion only, for what it's worth!
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@1899,
Hey, simmer down little teapot. Were just having a little fun.
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Some flat press printed W/F heads stamps that are early printed sometimes looks almost rotarty press printed, that when scanning the back is useful!
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Just to inform you all: I have just put a few stamps in the auction and yes, I include a scan of the back of those stamps! 
Enjoy the conversation, I think it is fun to read even when it is going all over the place and is seldom on topic.
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Ernie
You were only fighting us.
We were still fighting the French as well!
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Ian,
Just stop. You guys are 0-2 against the Americans. Do yall have history books over there?
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06:22:20pm
This sounds like politics to me!!!
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"This sounds like politics to me!!!"
The Canadian started it.
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I've seldom seen a family where brothers don't fight one another occasionally... All in fun.
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"Perhaps it's time to return to this topic "Scans of the backs of stamps""
Apparently not.
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I'm glad you cleaned up your act!
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If I list a higher value stamp(s) in the Auction I try and put a back scan in the listing.
One cannot do the same in the Approvals as the system does not allow a simple straightforward way do do it.
Don't say if you do this or that with some type of outside software I am not interested.
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I knew that between Ernie and I we could hijack the discussion. Debating scanning stamps is boring and I'm lazy. But stirring up S**T is fun. And I love most Americans...
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hahaha! Right on Dave! Can you believe these people are STILL going back and forth about the backsides of stamps???? They literally covered EVERY scenario in the first 3-4 posts. I love everyone on here but it just never ceases to amaze me. Someone will post a scan of a really unusual stamp. The post will get a "yawn" and 2-3 likes but then we'll all go on literally for weeks about the backs of stamps. I LOVE SoR!
Dave, btw, I'm going to petition the State Dept. to grant you US citizenship.
Ernie
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First Issues Revenues (Series 1862) it's easier to search the back of the stamp for silk threads than the front!
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Ernie
Of course we have history books. We also have a history going further back than your country. Your just newcomers. Babes in arms even.
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Go back and read those chapters where the colonists said we won't be ruled by kings but will govern ourselves as free men. Man, you gotta love that. 'Merica.
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Ernie
The appropriate word is "colonists". You couldn't hack it in any other country so you crossed the sea and nicked it from the "residents"
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Ian,
Aaaargh! Would SO love to continue this with you over a pint or two. Did I just read that correctly? A Brit lecturing ANYBODY about "nicking" a country? Oh, by the way, when are yall gonna repatriate all those artifacts that you stole from literally all over the world? What was that famous saying? "The sun never sets... " or something like that.
You know I love you Ian.
Ernie
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Ernie
Did you just admit that we were the Masters and you were the Apprentices?
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I should have known better than to tangle with crafty Dawg like you!
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First Issue Revenues Series 1862, there is a paper varietary that can only be detected from the back of a stamp. I think years ago it was called Straw Paper!
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This thread is hilarious, and no intervention !! Typical Stamporama.
An outsider looking to join a Stamp group would run a mile if this was the first thread he set eyes upon.
Is it possible to quarantine a thread ?
Or change the title maybe !
-----------------
moderator comment: agreed, the topic has been talked to death and we have other channels for off topic chit chat
(Modified by Moderator on 2025-06-06 02:00:20)
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Bluish Papers 1909 Series U. S. A. stamps, scanning with orange back up paper is one way for sure way for identification!
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11:25:03pm
This has been a hot topic of contention lately across the topics on this forum that has ruined some very good threads and I really don't understand why?
When I have been asked to do it and a few others here who have done it too. Some pretty interesting discoveries have been made. At least for me some errors, freaks and oddities have been discovered, watermarks positively identified various different varieties of what one might consider common but are anything but common. Potential new color shade varieties is another fine example of the results from scanning the backs of stamps. Correctly identifying perforation diameters is another example. I could think of many other good reasons for making the request to see the back of the stamp especially when someone is asking for help with identifying a stamp.
So here is a couple of rhetorical questions for those that get absolutely bent out of shape when asked to provide a scan of the back side of a stamp. Why does it bother you guys so much to do so when asked? Especially when some of you are dealers and list the items for sale when you get free help to identify your stamps and you guys who do make a successful sale as result. Where is the gratitude for the individuals making such a request that you benefit from? It is almost
nonexistent is the answer to that test for those wondering.
I've seen the arguments that it is a waste of time or it doesn't help etc... Granted nothing is ever fool proof and we are all human who are not infallible. But it is an honest effort to help out not to bother or inconvenience anyone. Here is the solution for those that don't like it. Don't honor the request and let your thread go by way of the Dodo bird and die or better yet don't ask for other members to help at all if such a request is that much of an imposition.
The way I see it is. There are many more who benefit from scanning the backs of their stamps than those who don't.
Jeremy
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Approvals
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Hi Jeremy,
I do not dispute the potential benefits, but there have been many occasions in which the advice made no sense. When I ask if someone can identify a certain stamp, I fail to see how a scan of the back might help. It is a bit like when you go to a garage because one of the lights of your car is broken and the mechanic asks if you have checked the tire pressure.
It could be funny if it were just a single remark, but when it becomes a mantra or catchphrase, it gets annoying. Especially when the reply on my question what I could learn from looking at the back is either a "I don't know" or is not given at all.
That is just my point of view, and I have the impression that many others do not get the joke either, or are fed up with this stuck record of a reply.
Best regards,
Jan-Simon
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
30 May 2025
10:44:38am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
If I show a page or a bunch of stamps showing the back is not easy or practical. If I just am referring to something on the front of a stamp like a post mark, re-entry, etc. there is no need to show the back. If the back is important or if there is something interesting there I will show it. This whole thing is turning into a bit of a joke and I am getting very tired of it! This is my opinion and is not meant to be insulting!
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11:10:01am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Finally we have a break through of some feedback to the subject. I can understand those feelings.
If I can be honest here. The first time I did it I was most certainly skeptical like many others have been and strongly expressed in some of the threads even making the idea into a running joke of sorts and like I pointed out in my OP has ruined some very good threads. I'm sure even causing some member losses. Now with all of that said.
I am of the very strong opinion that there is absolutely no reason or excuse for some of the personal attacks that have taken place however subtle they are. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior.
As far as making or poking a little fun at the topic I'll admit that I'm guilty of doing so. But it has never been my intention to bully, berate, intimidate or threaten anyone into conforming to my way of thinking. That is why I'm not a politician nor will I ever be. Pun intended. I don't have the patients for it anyway.
If any of my past comments have offended anyone then I sincerely apologize.
Furthermore if anyone ever takes issue with what I post then send me a private message to resolve the matters like adults not children.
Jeremy
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Approvals
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
"But it has never been my intention to bully, berate, intimidate or threaten anyone into conforming to my way of thinking. That is why I'm not a politician nor will I ever be. Pun intended."
Very tempting to make a comment about this, but we have rules not to touch politics, so I won't. But it is burning on the tip of my tongue
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12:07:59pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I hear you loud and clear.
Jeremy
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I agree with Sarge. It seems reasonable to ask stamp sellers and dealers to supply images of the backs of stamps if the backs are anything but post-office-fresh in the case of mint stamps, and undamaged in the case of used stamps. (A note about hinges: I have no patience with collectors who complain about used, hinged stamps being offered without an explanation that they are hinged. Buy ‘em and soak ‘em!)
My concern extends further, to the backs of covers. I have covers which, if scanned only from the front, seem common. From the back, though? An example follows; it’s the front of a cover posted in 1940 from Krefeld, Germany, to Buenos Aires:
Here’s the back, with return address, censor tape, a Nazi postmark, and various arithmetic calculations:
Only one thing makes this cover especially collectible, at least as far as I'm concerned. It’s the typed return address: "Carl Isr.Kaufmann".
Kaufmann was a German Jew. In 193a, shortly after Hitler came to power, the new Nuremberg Laws stipulated that all Jews in Germany were required to include the middle name Israel, if they were male, or Sarah (or "Sara," apparently) if they were female, every time they wrote their name on official documents or on international male. The “Isr.” in the return address stands for "Israel". The following explains the background:
Frick served as Minister of the Interior in Adolf Hitler's cabinet from 1933 to 1943 and as the last governor of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. He was convicted of war crimes in the Nuremberg Trials and was hanged in 1946.
Kaufmann almost certainly perished in the Holocaust. Krefeld had had a substantial Jewish population before the war. After the war, not a single Jew remained in Krefeld. “Aryan” residents of Krefeld claimed they were unaware that their Jewish neighbours were being “disappeared”.
It’s only the back of the cover reveals that it was censored. Perhaps the use of the back of the cover as a scratchpad is evidence of a paper shortage in Argentina. Paper was in short supply around the world because pulp mill workers were going to war and supply chains were being severed through the disruption of normal trade; enemies don’t generally trade with enemies, unless one of them happens to be Henry Ford and the other happens to be Adolph Hitler. In 1940, German U-boats were sinking every “allied”* freighter they could find in the Atlantic, the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Mediterranean, and some of those freighters were carrying pulp and paper products from the U.S. and Canada that were vital to the “allies”.
I probably wouldn’t have bought the cover if I couldn’t have seen the back. The return address makes the cover, if not rare, at least historical. Several similar covers are currently available on eBay, ranging in price from $150 to more than $300. Those are way overpriced in my opinion, from a dealer who routinely overprices all of his postal history; I probably paid $15 to $25 for most of my “Israel” and “Sara” covers, from another dealer, Roy Lingen, who does not overcharge and provides excellent service.
I could go on, about the backs and fronts of used picture postcards, but I’ll save that for another post, assuming that this thread doesn’t get too “political” and ends up in post Limbo.
Bob
* The terms “Allied” and “Allies” arose out of the term “United Nations,” proposed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in December, 1941, to describe the coalition of nations opposed Germany, Italy, and Japan.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Carl Kaufmann from Krefeld (b 28/4/81) has an intriguing listing in holocaust records. It seems that he may have survived and moved to Buenos Aires, but genealogical research might be needed to go any further
https://www.ushmm.org/online/hsv/person_ ...
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02:00:57am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Bob,
Finally someone else who understands where Im coming from.
Thank you!!!
Dealers take some notes!!!
Jeremy
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
@DaveSheridan, who wrote, "Carl Kaufmann from Krefeld (b 28/4/81) has an intriguing listing in holocaust records. It seems that he may have survived and moved to Buenos Aires…"
Well that's interesting! I went to the website you suggested, requested the document listing Carl Kaufmann, and instantly received it. Here's the document, FYI:
It doesn't provide much more information, does bear more looking into! I'll have to do some translations, but...thank you! Altogether, one more reason to appreciate postal history and Stamporama's helpful members!
Bob
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02:05:34am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Bob that is absolutely amazing history and you own a piece. How can anyone top that? Bravo Bob Bravo!!!
Jeremy
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
"Dealers take some notes!!!
Jeremy"
Buyers take note. Due to the added time required to remove stamps from hagners, flip them over, rescan, separate images and so on, prices have increased by 10%.
It's a double-edged sword
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
31 May 2025
11:27:13am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
"Due to the added time required to remove stamps from hagners, flip them over, rescan, separate images and so on, prices have increased by 10%."
And that's only for items that sell for a few dollars or more each. For a page of 10c items, 10% won't cut it.
Roy
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12:29:57pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
If you are going to take the time to quote a fragment of my original post and get stuck on that as a topic from a dealers singular perspective and worrying about a 10% rise in cost for the buyer as an example. It is a simple solution. Don't do it. Or do it and inform the buyer of the percentage rate rise in cost before the close of the sale/transaction is completed.
Make it a case by case consideration. That is what I'd do and leave it at that.
I've sold stamps plus many other things in the past over the internet which is one of the most important points to the topic and you are correct time is money. I believe that's the point you are trying to make. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
But consider these points too.
How many potential or repeat customers will you lose because of not considering that simple request?
How much time which equals money is lost for both parties in the event of a returned item if one accept returns at all? There is shipping, placing the item back in inventory, re-listing etc...
Then you lose more business if the unhappy customers leave a bad review. Most people are intelligent enough to understand that you cant please everyone. That is just how the world is.
How many potential customers are watching this thread unfold over the internet right now? Too many to count is the answer to that test.
I'll say this much if I were to sell a stamp that would make me money in the 3 digit range and to complete the sale especially for an international sale. You're darned right I'd take a scan or a photo of the back to ensure the customer was happy with its identification. But that is just me and my opinion. Share it or don't. Use your own freewill and live with the decision. That is what everyone on this planet we call home must do everyday wether we want admit it or not.
Here is a dirty little secret. When I take scans/photos of the backs of my stamps for research, positive identification, sales or any other reason that floats my boat. I typically use my camera phone and have a digital scanner on standby.
I have tried to help by sharing my perspective and experience. Now I am going to break contact and get out of the weeds on this subject. I have better things to do.
Jeremy
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01:29:37pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Of course a lot people on here forget this is a club, not a multi-national company. A number of sellers on here are not "Dealers".
What sellers /buyers on this system do is up to them as individuals.
Sellers cannot/ will not try and cover every buyers individual foibles. Buyers should not expect sellers to jump through hoops for their individual "requirements" especially for a stamp selling at less than $30.
As a Seller I will list whatever I want at the price I want full stop. If a buyer makes a "reasonable" request I will try and accommodate. If it is an "unreasonable" request then tough I will not follow through.
Nobody puts a gun to a buyers head to force them to buy. As a seller no buyer will put a gun to my head to force me to alter my sales conditions. If a buyer does not like them then tough.
It always makes me laugh when someone starts telling folkies on how to sell or increase their sales by this means or that means.
As long as the seller is happy in what they are doing then the world can go hang!
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I would never tell a stamp seller/dealer what he or she should do to ensure sales success. But any person who decides to engage in any business must understand a basic truism of capitalism: I you offer what I want to buy in a way that makes it possible, I will buy. If you don't offer what I want to buy in a way that makes it possible, then I won't buy. Ergo, if a dealer/buyer fails to deliver what his or her customers want, he or she won't do very well.
If a seller/dealer won't bother to inform me if a mint stamp is hinged, or otherwise damaged, or in pristine condition, then I won't buy it. By the same token, if he or she won't bother to inform me what's on the back of a cover, or what isn't on the back of a cover, then I won't buy it. That doesn't seem like rocket science to me!
Bob
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I very rarely scan the reverse of stamps. I scan at 800dpi for small stamps, 600dpi for larger stamps and 400dpi for sets and covers. I describe condition accurately and thoroughly, and price accordingly.
In all my years of dealing, I think I've had less than half-a-dozen requests for back scans, and I have never had an item returned. I offer a full no-quibble refund, and no-one has ever taken me up on it.
The back scan doesn't sell stamps. Quality, attention to detail, thoroughness and customer service all outweigh a back scan immeasurably
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04:23:03am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Don't you just love this system of stamporama especially the discussion board.
I always laugh at the inputs of folkies telling sellers what is what and what sellers should do.
WHEN
Few, if any posters on this thread actually sell on here!
OR
Seldom or even buy on here!
We have a saying in Old Caledonia "Empty vessels make the most noise"
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
@ Brechinite:
I rarely “buy here” because “here” offers almost nothing in the way of stamps or covers that I need or want. But are you saying that sellers don’t appreciate having potential or actual buyers express opinions about what they want to buy? And that sellers don’t appreciate suggestions about the way the stamps (and covers) are scanned and otherwise described? Interesting.
Bob
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03:53:42pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Bob
I also notice that you do not sell here.
Surely you have some items surplus to your requirements why not sell them to like members here. You never know, YOU selling may encourage others to do so and they might in turn sell their items which might, just might be of interest to you.
We have a saying in Old Caledonia " What goes around comes around".
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
@ Brechinite:
You’re right, I don’t sell here or anywhere. I did once try selling approvals, but got badly ripped off a couple times. But, mainly, I just don’t want the hassles involved in the piecemeal selling of stamps, covers, or anything. I am actually readying a mailing of covers and some stamps to an auction house, but that’s easy compared to the endless tasks that selling stamps on-line would entail.
Bob
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05:42:44pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Bob
Aye its a lot easier to bung stuff into a box for an auction house to sell than listing it individually for fellow collectors or hassle merchants.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Too late, Sarge. I think I still have some useful things to say. Like what I'm saying now!
---
Here’s my rant about the sellers of used picture postcards:
Some people collect postcards for the pictures, while others collect them for the messages on the back. I once bought a postcard purely for the message, though the picture is somewhat useful:
This postcard was posted from U.S.S. Haven, a U.S. Navy hospital ship. In 1954, the year it was mailed, Haven had had a distinguished career. It fought in the Battle of Okinawa in 1945 and was the first hospital ship to have helicopter landing pads added to its stern, shortening the transit time from battlefield to hospital for wounded soldiers.
Haven’s history is interesting to me because I was wounded in Vietnam and evacuated by helicopter to another Haven-class hospital ship, U.S.S. Repose, in 1966.
During the pandemic, I built a model of Repose, using a kit intended to replicate Haven. I added details unique to Haven, including homemade decals. The photograph is of the South Vietnamese coast, taken from the deck of the amphibious landing ship U.S.S. Paul Revere, the evening before we landed in Quang Ngai Province:
The postcard from Haven was written on October 1, 1954. The Battle of Dien Bien Phu had ended in a communist victory over French colonial forces on May 7, 1954. Thousands of French soldiers became POWs and many died during their imprisonment. When surviving soldiers were repatriated, the U.S. Navy volunteered to transport them to Oran, Algeria and then on to France. The postcard was mailed by a Haven crewman after the ship transited the Suez Canal and before arriving in Oran. This postcard is one of the earliest artifacts in my collection illustrating the secret U.S. involvement in South Vietnam’s conflict against the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.
If the dealer I bought the postcard from had only shown me its front, I’d have thought, ”Meh!” The picture of a Japanese national park on the front has nothing to do with the history of U.S.S. Haven. It only shows that the ship likely spent time in Japan, probably in Yokosuka, where I was stationed for two years before being shanghaied by the Marines. Fortunately, I saw the back of the postcard and added it to my collection, where it holds a place of honour.
I’ve been buying postcards for both their pictures and messages on their backs for at least the last 20 years, during which time I’ve encountered dealers who only scan the picture side of picture postcards. The only way you can sometimes tell if a postcard is used is that impressions from the cancellations show on the picture side, but that certainly says nothing about the message on the back, assuming there is a message.
I’ve also known postal history dealers who never show you the backs of covers, which can be a problem, as I’ve indicated in another post in this thread.
It makes no sense to me for a business person, even if he or she is “just” a casual seller of stamps, postcards, and covers, not to cater to anyon who might have an interest in the backs of their artifacts. Scans of the backs certainly aren’t always necessary. If there’s nothing of interest on the back, the dealer can just say so! Computers can make that as easy as pressing a key.
There! Rant over!
Bob
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09:36:52pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
You win Bob!!!
I deleted my previous post. The thread continues. Here is an FYI for all of the SOR members. I will be out of the net for the next couple of days for sure maybe even a little longer because I'll be going under the knife for a hip replacement tomorrow. Stay tuned and keep this thread going and some of the others I started.
Jeremy
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Approvals
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
This is an interesting discussion to which I have a few things to say. First of all, scanning both sides of a postcard makes a lot of sense, even when the card is unused. But secondly, and in my case more importantly, the discussion now seems to focus on what sellers should or should not do, where much of the annoyance stemmed from the fact that showing the back of a stamp was proposed in every discussion as a solution to every problem. To give you an example, in a thread I started I showed a picture of a selection of stamps that were blatant forgeries in my opinion. They were offered on a Dutch auction site. Writing a reply with the advice to show the back of the stamp is silly, to put it friendly. I do not have the stamps and how could the back of the stamp decide whether it is a forgery or not? Perhaps it is not silly at all, perhaps trolling is a better description.
Anyway, that is my main problem, not whether or not it is justified in order to increase sales. In my experience as a seller (note: seller, not dealer!) I have yet to encounter the first request for the back of a stamp by a potential buyer. Have I missed sales because I do not include those scans? Could be, but it has not hurt me. Sales are still satisfactory. The only reason I can think of for scanning the back is showing damages, but that only makes sense for expensive stamps. Other than that, the descriptions MH and MNH are often enough. used hinged / used unhinged: i have never had a buyer who refused a used stamp because of a hinge.
Besides that, Roy and Ian already mentioned this in their posts, I do not have the time to provide back scans for everything I offer. 80% of what I offer in the approvals is 10 cents stamps. Would more than doubling the time to prepare an approval book (it is not only making twice as much scans, but also turning each stamp twice) really result in significantly more sales? It is as rhetorical as a question can be.
As long as a buyer does not specifically and urgently requests the scan of the back, I do not bother.
Jan-Simon
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06:57:08am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
What I would like to say in conlusion is that :-
There are many, many, many sections, sectors and subsections within the field of philately and not one single person can have such a wide and varied knowledge of the millions of items possibly available.
The vast majority of members on Stamporama are just ordinary hard working honest folkies spending some of their time selling and buying to add to their collections.
We are human. We are each different in our own way.
If you want us all to be the same then you are fighting human nature.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Sarge good luck, hope to see more interesting material when you return.
Again best of luck.
No KP for you!
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08:15:15pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Hey Ian (Brechinite). Leave Bob (Bobstamp) alone!
He might have only bought a few stamps in 19 years, and sold none, but he is a fellow Canadian and a (future) generous donor to The Holocaust Stamps Project!
But seriously folks...
1) What is with the covers and all the numbers and crap written on the back? Did people take them to their bridge club back in the day as spare paper to use as a scratch pad? I can't believe how many nice old covers I've seen like that!
2) It is really fun and educational to look up names of senders/recipients. The info you can get (obviously primarily Holocaust-related for me) is sometimes astounding. I have (maybe "had" since I can't find it anymore) a cover from Edith Piaf to Django Reinhardt from the late 1940s (maybe early 1950s). Both had interesting - and perhaps controversial - experiences with the Nazis during WWII.
3) As a Socialist-Libertarian (a term unique to Canadians who want to please everyone) I figure buyers have the right to ask for scans of the back of any stamps they want - even 5c approval offerings. And sellers have the right to decline to do so on the basis of a reduction in revenue/profits or even pure laziness. Both parties have the right to neither buy from, or sell to, each other.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I usually post scans both front and back on expensive items I put up for sale. When a buyer requests a back scan of a stamp I have listed, I have only declined once to do so. I'm guessing they were looking for watermark varieties on Germany B298-B301. I never had a buyer ask for a scan of cheap approval stamps, thank goodness! I would decline with certainty. According to Dave I am exhibiting "pure laziness". I can live with that small "reduction in revenue/profits".
As one seller said to me, requesting a scan is no guarantee they will buy the item.
(Lazy) Larry
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I keep all current bills on a table next to where I sit. The back and fronts get used for keeping a note of when bills need to be paid and also a running total of bank account balances. They are used for jotting down notes and even stamp want lists. Those not used get a second life as containers for stamps to be soaked, soaked ready to be sorted and even those sorted by country name.
As a genealogist I also look for related images and also any possible family connections, especially on the correspondence side.
Having found a grandfather who was a WW1 prisoner in Bad Langansalza, I keep a look out for any related to the prison camp at the time.
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09:44:47am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
HolocaustStamps:-
I've worked for the Hudson's Bay Company. I ken how you Canadians think and act.
All you care about is Huntin', Fishin', Poker and Hockey!
Heaven forbid you actually drink Labatts.
Thank god someone in Edmonton actually imported some good old Scottish MacEwans Export!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHqxzv1w ...
The best phrase I ever heard in Canada was "To Russia with Hull!"
You wouldna pick the best hockey player in the world to play for you!
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Jun 2025
09:52:47am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
"To Russia with Hull"
Bobby or Dennis? Bobby was probably the better player but Dennis, his brother, had the harder shot.
Sorry, this is off topic!!
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11:26:29am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Harvey
It was Bobby and it was for the 8 game series against Russia in '72.
4 games in Canada, 4 in Russia. It went to the final game in Russia and Canada won the series with 20 seconds to go in the 3rd period. (if I remember correctly)
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Jun 2025
11:42:27am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
You're right on Ian, it never occurred to me that you were referring to the 1972 series. It's weird, I looked up the lineups and Bobby Hull wasn't mentioned. Was he in the WHA at the time, without checking I have no idea!!
"Team Canada (1972):
Goalies: Tony Esposito, Ken Dryden, Eddie Johnston
Defensemen: Bobby Orr, Guy Lapointe, Serge Savard, Brad Park, Rod Seiling
Forwards: Phil Esposito, Paul Henderson, Bobby Clarke, Frank Mahovlich, Yvan Cournoyer, Ron Ellis, Wayne Cashman, Jean-Paul Parise, Vic Hadfield, Richard Martin, Rod Gilbert, Mickey Redmond "
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02:45:12pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Harvey
You are correct he was in the WHA not the NHL that's why he wasn't picked to go.
If my memory serves me well it was Phil Esposito that scored the winner in the 8th game. Do you remember that almost the whole Canadian Team launched themselves acrosss the ice to rescue the Team Manager and his wife from the Russian police during the game?
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05:51:15pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
JohnnyStamp
My memory did not serve me well. (Sounds like a line from a song)
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I wish Canada Post would issue a long set commemorating the 1972 Series. My memories of the series are fading as well. The Canadian Team was made up of mostly famous players well past their prime. The Canadian team was cocky, ill prepared and were expecting a cake walk. To the shock of everyone, the Russians were good, darn good. Some would say better than Canadians. I remember the Canadian fans booing their own team, Phil Esposito imploring the fans not to lose faith. We won with heart, determination and some dirty tricks.
Larry
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Jun 2025
06:37:47pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
"What is with the covers and all the numbers and crap written on the back"
I remember years ago discussing many things with my mother. One, and I can't remember why, was concerning the use of paper. It was not always easy to come by, remember in those days students used erasable slates in school because paper tended to be a bit expensive and hard to come by in some areas and homes. So if an envelope was at hand it got used for grocery lists and many other things. I have many scribbled on covers as well - it was what was done!!
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01:43:10pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
OK, I'll get back in to the convo, despite it going pear-shaped...
Ian: I despise American beer ("flavoured water" as we call it) and dislike most Canadian beer. Including Labatts which is brewed locally. I prefer Guinness and Becks - but nowadays the 0% as I don't drink alcohol anymore.
I played soccer (football) back in the day (late 1970s-early 1980s) at Uni, with a very culturally diverse gang (Something that apparently is considered horrible by Americans). So I learned to drink beer like Red Stripe, Urquel, Amstel, etc.
But I ramble...so I'm going fof a nap.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
@HolocaustStamps,
you said,
"I played soccer ... at Uni, with a very culturally diverse gang (Something that apparently is considered horrible by Americans)."
The current US population is a little over 340 million. Please do not insult all of us at once. Some Americans may consider it horrible just as some Canadians may consider it horrible.
Please do not take cheap shots at Americans; it will be WAY too easy to return fire.
Ernie
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Perhaps it's time to return to this topic "Scans of the backs of stamps"
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02:48:41pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Now Now Ernie.
Be careful. We British would have to defend our Canadian cousins.
Remember Remember August 24th 1814.
EDIT
I think we have flogged to death the original subject
We are just having some fun.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Ian, remember January 8, 1815.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I think and hope the Moderator stops you guys (ernieinjax, Brechinite) from this stupid back and forth petty discussions!
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
04 Jun 2025
04:05:33pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I really shouldn't get into this but... Sometimes the petty side conversations are fun, even though they are usually off topic. My suggestion is that if you don't like what is being said then don't read it! Most of these side conversations disappear after a few back and forths anyway so why bother. If they really get annoying all that usually needs to be done is have a moderator tell them to stop, that usually works. My opinion only, for what it's worth!
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
@1899,
Hey, simmer down little teapot. Were just having a little fun.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Some flat press printed W/F heads stamps that are early printed sometimes looks almost rotarty press printed, that when scanning the back is useful!
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Approvals
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Just to inform you all: I have just put a few stamps in the auction and yes, I include a scan of the back of those stamps!
Enjoy the conversation, I think it is fun to read even when it is going all over the place and is seldom on topic.
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06:01:19pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Ernie
You were only fighting us.
We were still fighting the French as well!
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Ian,
Just stop. You guys are 0-2 against the Americans. Do yall have history books over there?
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
04 Jun 2025
06:22:20pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
This sounds like politics to me!!!
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
"This sounds like politics to me!!!"
The Canadian started it.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I've seldom seen a family where brothers don't fight one another occasionally... All in fun.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
"Perhaps it's time to return to this topic "Scans of the backs of stamps""
Apparently not.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I'm glad you cleaned up your act!
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10:05:51am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
If I list a higher value stamp(s) in the Auction I try and put a back scan in the listing.
One cannot do the same in the Approvals as the system does not allow a simple straightforward way do do it.
Don't say if you do this or that with some type of outside software I am not interested.
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10:28:33am
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I knew that between Ernie and I we could hijack the discussion. Debating scanning stamps is boring and I'm lazy. But stirring up S**T is fun. And I love most Americans...
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
hahaha! Right on Dave! Can you believe these people are STILL going back and forth about the backsides of stamps???? They literally covered EVERY scenario in the first 3-4 posts. I love everyone on here but it just never ceases to amaze me. Someone will post a scan of a really unusual stamp. The post will get a "yawn" and 2-3 likes but then we'll all go on literally for weeks about the backs of stamps. I LOVE SoR!
Dave, btw, I'm going to petition the State Dept. to grant you US citizenship.
Ernie
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
First Issues Revenues (Series 1862) it's easier to search the back of the stamp for silk threads than the front!
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01:02:04pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Ernie
Of course we have history books. We also have a history going further back than your country. Your just newcomers. Babes in arms even.
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Go back and read those chapters where the colonists said we won't be ruled by kings but will govern ourselves as free men. Man, you gotta love that. 'Merica.
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03:47:26pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Ernie
The appropriate word is "colonists". You couldn't hack it in any other country so you crossed the sea and nicked it from the "residents"
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Ian,
Aaaargh! Would SO love to continue this with you over a pint or two. Did I just read that correctly? A Brit lecturing ANYBODY about "nicking" a country? Oh, by the way, when are yall gonna repatriate all those artifacts that you stole from literally all over the world? What was that famous saying? "The sun never sets... " or something like that.
You know I love you Ian.
Ernie
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06:05:03pm
re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Ernie
Did you just admit that we were the Masters and you were the Apprentices?
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
I should have known better than to tangle with crafty Dawg like you!
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
First Issue Revenues Series 1862, there is a paper varietary that can only be detected from the back of a stamp. I think years ago it was called Straw Paper!
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
This thread is hilarious, and no intervention !! Typical Stamporama.
An outsider looking to join a Stamp group would run a mile if this was the first thread he set eyes upon.
Is it possible to quarantine a thread ?
Or change the title maybe !
-----------------
moderator comment: agreed, the topic has been talked to death and we have other channels for off topic chit chat
(Modified by Moderator on 2025-06-06 02:00:20)
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re: Scans of the backs of stamps.
Bluish Papers 1909 Series U. S. A. stamps, scanning with orange back up paper is one way for sure way for identification!
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