Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Richaard
(Modified by Moderator on 2011-12-14 02:47:43)
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I'm surprised that Scott Publishing Co. Ltd. or Amos Publishing hasn't jumped all over the person who posted this offer on that website offering the Scott Catalogues for downloading.
The contents of these books (catalogues) are owned exclusively by Scott Publishing Co. Ltd. and all rights are reserved by them under the Pan American and Universal Copyright Conventions.
Liz
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Scott / Amos would no doubt demand removal of the files and possibly seek legal redress, if they knew about it. However, it's hard to imagine any publisher managing to cope with what amounts to an avalanche of digital copyright infringement on the internet. More importantly, it is clearly illegal to copy the catalogues, much less distribute them freely, and Stamporama members should not be facilitating that distribution. I believe that the original post should be deleted.
Bob
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I totally agree with you Bob and have deleted the link to the website in question. If the other members of the VC (Volunteer Committee)on a whole disagree with my decision, please advise me.
I personally believe that the membership of Stamporama should not be encouraging or advertising the distribution of illegal material.
Liz
Stamporama Moderator
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I agree with the administration's move to delete the link. The club should not promote piracy by allowing that sort of link.
The publishing companies can't afford to chase down those sort of links as new ones would pop up faster than they would be shut down. And there are some internet gray areas that allow individuals to host the files.
The sad thing is, I actually prefer the catalog in this format. I can carry it around in my pocket, on my phone that displays PDF files. It's easily searchable (when you know how to do th search). And had I paid for it, it probably (or at least, SHOULD BE) a lot cheaper than the paper version. But alas, the piracy thing probably killed this format.
I did acquire the 2008 version through use of my darker internet powers, and it has served a new collector very well, especially since there was no way I would have been able to afford the real deal. I was unaware that they had released it for 2009. I've been using a 2008 version for the last year and a half. So I do thank you for at least pointing that out. Some day in the future though, I suppose I will make ammends for my transgression and purchase the real catalog.
Pat
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thank you Liz for removing the link.
Please do NOT use this site to circumvent the law. It is illegal to distribute copyrighted material to which you don't have rights.
Copyright is protected by law; and there are penalties for its violation. For those of you who have not paid attention to the philatelic papers, like Linn's (owned by Amos, as is Scott), Scott and Amos are ball busters about protecting their copyright. They've shut down others who have used their numbering system without proper permission. They shut down Mellon's FDC catalogue (it's since been merged with Amos).
David
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Regarding link for Scott 1969 catalog, link was sent to me, and I thought that I was helping others to view an old catalog, not for the prices, but to be able to convert the numbers from say Michel to Scott. I did not have an inkling that I was doing anything illegal. This was not for myself, as I have all six volumes of Scott 2012, except US Specialized.
In 2010, I took four pages out of my 2008 Scott, and scanned them, so a Chinese customers could see the numbers. Was this illegal also?
I may be 89, but I certainly am not up to snuff on the rules for copying an old Scott, not to sell them the listing. Dealers refer to Scott every day in adds, and actually show a listing. Is this ok to do?
I guess that I better not try to help others any more.
Richaard
PS. I got thank yous from several collectors.
Part of my life is too make people happy, and to put a smile on their face.
I am posting in another post, a letter that was published today in my local newspaper
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Yes, Richard, we have already spoken about this privately, but as you asked in a public forum, I'll respond publicly. Yes, it is illegal to copy and distribute or in any way make available copyrighted material, such as Scott's catalogues.
One may not copy and send to others (the entire object of said mission was to save another person {in this case a customer who would presumably be able to use those pages to order material from the dealer}) the cost of buying a catalogue and thereby deprive the publisher of the revenue that would otherwise have been generated when the customer bought the set.
One may not post such material on the web. It's not yours. It's Scott's. They've copyrighted it, which means that, legally, they get to decide who can do what with it within the framework of the 1976 and 1979 copyright conventions.
As to making others happy, that's a wonderful thing to do, Richard. Should you wish to continue to do so, and do it in a legal framework, you may buy Scott catalogues and distribute them to all the folks upon whose faces you wish to bring smiles.
Should anyone wish to discuss copyright laws further, ask away. Incidentally, Linn's has covered Amos' aggressive copyright defenses in great deatail. they haven't lost yet.
David
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I'm sure you got thank yous from other collectors, because they didn't have to pay for something. However, when you made copies, and it was not for you PERSONAL use, and you did not have permission from the copyright owner to make the copies of the material, that is when you went wrong.
Read the back of the title page of any publication/book. There you will read the legal wording about the rights that are retained by the copyright owner and in this case permissions given for use of the catalog numbering system. Copyright has been around along time. I don't believe you when you say you didn't know. Feigning ignorance is quite lame on your part. And your comment, "I guess that I better not try to help others any more", well that's simply arrogance, and self-fulfillment. You claim to be a long-time dealer. If so, then you should know better.
It's also not a matter of "helping" someone. I can rob a bank and give the money to the poor. I'm helping people, and will certainly put a smile on their face, and get many thank yous as well, but it is wrong to steal.
The more people who make copies and give them away, the more that the copyright owner loses sales and revenue. To make their revenue goals on catalog sales, they have to raise the price of the catalogs that those who buy the catalogs will have to pay. So, those who pay higher prices for the product are not smiling over what you and others do by copying the catalogs.
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On Page 2A of the 2011 Scott Volume 3 (Countries G-I) there is a COPYRIGHT NOTICE and TRADEMARK NOTICE directly below the TABLE OF CONTENTS.
These notices are printed in every volume of the Scott Catalogue.
The Unitrade Specialized Catalogue of Canadian Stamps (2012 edition) has inside their cover the following COPYRIGHT notice and I quote...........
"COPYRIGHT - The contents of this book are owned exclusively by The Unitrade Press. "The Scott Numbers are the copyrighted property of Amos Press Inc., dba Scott Publishing Co. and are used here under a licensing agreement with Scott. The marks Scott and Scott's are Registered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, and are trademarks of Amos Press Inc., dba Scott Publishing Co. No use may be made of these marks or of material in this publication which is reprinted from a copyrighted publication of Amos Press. Inc., without the express written permission of Amos Press, Inc., dba Scott Publishing Co., Sidney, Ohio 45365."
No part of this book may be reproduced in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, without permission in writing from the Unitrade Press. Copyright 2012 The Unitrade Press, Toronto, Canada M6L 2C4"
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Just for the record,Google had the link for the catalogs. I just checked again, and it has now been removed.
I have also notified the people that I had sent the link to that it is against copyright laws to use it.
You know if I had not sent this link to SOR, the link probably would have still been on Google and elsewhere
Richaard
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there's a bill in US Congress right now; i think it's passed one chamber; it's called SCOBA and refers to US DOJ's rights to police the internet and file charges on publishers' and other rights holders' behalf. It essentially gives DOJ the right (and perhaps the responsibility) to sue on others' behalf.
This tengentially relates to the copyright infringement that others have perpetrated, and such sites as the one distributing copyrighted material for free are the stated targets. Of course, this is smoke and mirrors; the real target is the internet and efforts to control it.
David
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I also want to comment upon "google had the link." Google is not an arbiter; they merely make all things available. Their criteria is around utiity and relevance, not legality nor ethics.
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Not entirely true David, Google claims to be impartial, but most of the time it removes links to copyrighted material from its search results if it is asked to.
Jan-Simon
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David - it is Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). At the same time, "The Pirate Party" is now a real international political party that has won elected offices in Sweden and Germany.
Josh
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thanks Josh, i've begun to think of myself as Mr Malaprop (the four-engined, wide-bodied version manufactured by Boring for the Hair Lift Command).
i had no idea this had gained political traction outside the states. I think ANY regulation of the internet is bound to bite the users, and SOPA seems particularly nasty, going after the providers rather than posters.
David
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Jansimon said, "I do not think our influence is so big Google notices it."
Actually, Google is responsive to suggested changes. I once noticed that Google Maps had an error — quite an amusing error, actually — in its map of my home town, Silver City, New Mexico. I sent an email to Google, and several months later the map was corrected.
The Scott catalogue links which were removed may not have been removed by Google, but by the owner of the web site after someone pointed out or complained about the potential for copyright infringement.
I hope you'll find the following anecdote interesting. It ends with a further comment about copyright:
---
The story behind the Google error is interesting. The error clearly indicated Main Street, between Hudson and Bullard Streets, running north and south for several blocks. It was an error because most of Main Street, where about half of downtown businesses were located, was washed away over the course of several floods in the late 1800s and early 1900s. The roadbed was scoured down to bedrock, about 30 feet below the former street level; the floods resulted from heavy rains in the nearby mountains which had been overgrazed by livestock and denuded by forestry. Homes and businesses which had fronted on Main Street were heavily damaged. One contemporaneous photo shows a grand piano hanging over the abyss from the second floor of a fancy home.
Some of the original, damaged buidlings still are in use; their owners simply rebuilt the damaged or missing walls, and did some renovation, turning the former backs of the buildings into the fronts. Bullard Street, which before the floods was an alley, became one of Silver City's two main business streets. When my wife and I were in high school, we and our friends used to "drag Main" in our cars (or our parents' cars). Of course, we were really "dragging Bullard" because Main Street had long ago been washed out into the desert south of Silver City.
Today, part of the original Main Street still exists as a street, but only for a few blocks, north of downtown. Most people don't realize that the Big Ditch, which now exists as the main feature of a long and skinny city park, used to be a street. Interestingly, Bullard Street even today has some of the highest curbs you'll ever encounter, because to this day heavy rains fill it with run-off water.
Click here to read my web page, "An old cover takes me home — Growing up in historic Silver City, New Mexico with Billy the Kid, Geronimo, and Roy Rogers". The web page includes a spectacular photo of the Big Ditch taken during the time of the flooding, plus a photo showing part of the Big Ditch as it looks today. And one of me in my days as a gunslinger and my horse Chubby. (Actually, Chubby was my sister's horse. What self-respecting gunslinger would own a horse named Chubby?!)
Finally, an uncomfortable aside: I have almost never attempted to get permission to use images of postcards and stamps in my various web pages, and I worry that some new legislation or regulation or watchdog will target me and demand payment of exorbitant fees or that I remove my web pages. This is exactly what happened to Anne Mette Heindorff, who lived in Copenhagen; she had to take down most of her huge Art on Stamps web site after Copy-Dan demanded payment on behalf of copyright owners or removal of the web site. She was planning on going to court over it (she was a lawyer), but tragically was diagnosed with brain cancer and died several months later.
Bob
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Bob Graham, i am mad at you! For the last nine hours, except for an hour for dinner, I have been reading the story of your life. Being very inquisitive, I had to read everything, from Silver City to your Vietnam vacation. On finishing it, I have come to two conclusions: One this story should certainly be published as a book, and two it should be made into a movie. Some of the things I noted was that you like chocolate ice cream sodas just as I did, and still do. I used to by them with two scoops for 25¢. You mention Dick Tracy, and I always thought that he was a comic book detective. Speaking of Dick Tracy, there is a postcard collector/dealer, who is a member of the Rhode Island Postcard Club by that name. Strange, but I do not remember Re Allen. I remember Harry Carey, Roy, Gene, Rory, etc, but not Rex. That nurse, Juel Loughney whose picture was painted by Christine Laubach, makes me think that if I ever have to go to a hospital again, I hope I get one that looks like her. Looking at pictures of your airplane crash, I wonder how you ever walked away from it. I am sure that someone has saved you to go on to grater things, perhaps that movie I mention above, or perhaps President of USA. You got my vote.
In case I forget, Happy Anniversary on the 27th.
Richard (with one "a")
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Richard with one a, thank you! It does indeed seem like you read my entire web site. Well, you didn't mention Joe Hicks, or my Uncle Phil, but you still get a pass.
Rex Allen was indeed one of the (perhaps lesser known) cowboy movie stars. He wore his pair of six guns backwards. When I was maybe eight or nine, he came to Silver City to promote one of his films. He spoke from t-e steps of City Hall, in costume, and suddenly did his cross-armed draw and fired his pistols into the air. I was so impressed that I started wearing my own six-guns backward. This photo must have been taken before that, since the holsters are in the normal position.
Dick Tracy was of course a comic strip detective. I never got to thank him or the other smoke jumper, Kirk Samsel, for rescuing me. Dick was on his death bed with cancer when I finally located him, just a few years ago, and I later learned that Kirk had been killed, rather ironically, in a plane crash.
Not sure about your reference to the nurse. I don't recall mentioning a nurse, although I did fall in love with Miss Curteau, an instructor of my Hospital Corps School company in San Diego. Alas, she was several years older and probably well aware that my life expectancy as a corpsman was rather short!
You aren't, of course, the first person to mention my seemingly miraculous survival in that airplane crash. The plane was completely, utterly destroyed, and the pilot badly injured, but I suffered mainly insignificant cuts, abrasions, bruises and a light concussion. And a good thing came out of it: I have a complete collection of stamps showing the Beech T-34 Mentor trainer. Here it is. The complete collection. At least I've never seen another stamp showing this aircraft. If anyone has, let me know, because I hate having incomplete collections!
Bob
P.S. I'll pass on the presidential nomination. Someone would look into my past and discover that I am now — Gasp! — a Canadian!
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Bob,
Read about Uncle Phil. He sure was lucky, coming out without a scratch. Quite a guy.
As for Joe Hicks, I read about him somewhere else awhile back. he certainly was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Due to a case of walking pneumonia, I got pulled off the shipment to Okinawa. Most of the guys in the platoon were killed.
Here I am in uniform in 1944 (Army Air Corps). pictures taken in Atlanta, GA.
I was 21. Gee was I ever that young? Is that really me?
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12:18:41pm
" ... ...I don't know if I myself could go that long without "playing stamps".....unless of course I was fishing......"
I had lunch and visited Theresa and Richard a couple of times right after they physically moved to that part of South Florida before I returned to West Central Florida myself. I can understand how the unpacking process might take quite some time. Theresa has boxes and boxes as well as a wall and a half full of albums. Getting settled is a project that involves time and energy.
When I moved here from New York twenty four years ago it not only took me a long time to unpack, every so often over the next two or three years I'd come across some box or carton that had not been disturbed since that big move.
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12:23:47pm
" ... Please do NOT use this site to circumvent the law. It is illegal to distribute copyrighted material to which you don't have rights.
Copyright is protected by law; and there are penalties for its violation. For those of you who have not paid attention to the philatelic papers, like Linn's (owned by Amos, as is Scott), Scott and Amos are ball busters about protecting their copyright. They've shut down others who have used their numbering system without proper permission. They shut down Mellon's FDC catalogue (it's since been merged with Amos).
David ..."
Besides which it is stealing, plain and simple and just as dishonorable as removing some stamps from a dealer's table at a show without paying. The kind of thing that is certainly not acceptable by this fine group.
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For those of you that need a Scott Catalog, so you can see the numbers, to either buy, or trade, you can down load all six volumes at below link. Now you will be able to match the Scott numbers to your catalog.
Richaard
(Modified by Moderator on 2011-12-14 02:47:43)
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
I'm surprised that Scott Publishing Co. Ltd. or Amos Publishing hasn't jumped all over the person who posted this offer on that website offering the Scott Catalogues for downloading.
The contents of these books (catalogues) are owned exclusively by Scott Publishing Co. Ltd. and all rights are reserved by them under the Pan American and Universal Copyright Conventions.
Liz
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Scott / Amos would no doubt demand removal of the files and possibly seek legal redress, if they knew about it. However, it's hard to imagine any publisher managing to cope with what amounts to an avalanche of digital copyright infringement on the internet. More importantly, it is clearly illegal to copy the catalogues, much less distribute them freely, and Stamporama members should not be facilitating that distribution. I believe that the original post should be deleted.
Bob
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
I totally agree with you Bob and have deleted the link to the website in question. If the other members of the VC (Volunteer Committee)on a whole disagree with my decision, please advise me.
I personally believe that the membership of Stamporama should not be encouraging or advertising the distribution of illegal material.
Liz
Stamporama Moderator
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
I agree with the administration's move to delete the link. The club should not promote piracy by allowing that sort of link.
The publishing companies can't afford to chase down those sort of links as new ones would pop up faster than they would be shut down. And there are some internet gray areas that allow individuals to host the files.
The sad thing is, I actually prefer the catalog in this format. I can carry it around in my pocket, on my phone that displays PDF files. It's easily searchable (when you know how to do th search). And had I paid for it, it probably (or at least, SHOULD BE) a lot cheaper than the paper version. But alas, the piracy thing probably killed this format.
I did acquire the 2008 version through use of my darker internet powers, and it has served a new collector very well, especially since there was no way I would have been able to afford the real deal. I was unaware that they had released it for 2009. I've been using a 2008 version for the last year and a half. So I do thank you for at least pointing that out. Some day in the future though, I suppose I will make ammends for my transgression and purchase the real catalog.
Pat
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
thank you Liz for removing the link.
Please do NOT use this site to circumvent the law. It is illegal to distribute copyrighted material to which you don't have rights.
Copyright is protected by law; and there are penalties for its violation. For those of you who have not paid attention to the philatelic papers, like Linn's (owned by Amos, as is Scott), Scott and Amos are ball busters about protecting their copyright. They've shut down others who have used their numbering system without proper permission. They shut down Mellon's FDC catalogue (it's since been merged with Amos).
David
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Regarding link for Scott 1969 catalog, link was sent to me, and I thought that I was helping others to view an old catalog, not for the prices, but to be able to convert the numbers from say Michel to Scott. I did not have an inkling that I was doing anything illegal. This was not for myself, as I have all six volumes of Scott 2012, except US Specialized.
In 2010, I took four pages out of my 2008 Scott, and scanned them, so a Chinese customers could see the numbers. Was this illegal also?
I may be 89, but I certainly am not up to snuff on the rules for copying an old Scott, not to sell them the listing. Dealers refer to Scott every day in adds, and actually show a listing. Is this ok to do?
I guess that I better not try to help others any more.
Richaard
PS. I got thank yous from several collectors.
Part of my life is too make people happy, and to put a smile on their face.
I am posting in another post, a letter that was published today in my local newspaper
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Yes, Richard, we have already spoken about this privately, but as you asked in a public forum, I'll respond publicly. Yes, it is illegal to copy and distribute or in any way make available copyrighted material, such as Scott's catalogues.
One may not copy and send to others (the entire object of said mission was to save another person {in this case a customer who would presumably be able to use those pages to order material from the dealer}) the cost of buying a catalogue and thereby deprive the publisher of the revenue that would otherwise have been generated when the customer bought the set.
One may not post such material on the web. It's not yours. It's Scott's. They've copyrighted it, which means that, legally, they get to decide who can do what with it within the framework of the 1976 and 1979 copyright conventions.
As to making others happy, that's a wonderful thing to do, Richard. Should you wish to continue to do so, and do it in a legal framework, you may buy Scott catalogues and distribute them to all the folks upon whose faces you wish to bring smiles.
Should anyone wish to discuss copyright laws further, ask away. Incidentally, Linn's has covered Amos' aggressive copyright defenses in great deatail. they haven't lost yet.
David
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11:50:58pm
re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
I'm sure you got thank yous from other collectors, because they didn't have to pay for something. However, when you made copies, and it was not for you PERSONAL use, and you did not have permission from the copyright owner to make the copies of the material, that is when you went wrong.
Read the back of the title page of any publication/book. There you will read the legal wording about the rights that are retained by the copyright owner and in this case permissions given for use of the catalog numbering system. Copyright has been around along time. I don't believe you when you say you didn't know. Feigning ignorance is quite lame on your part. And your comment, "I guess that I better not try to help others any more", well that's simply arrogance, and self-fulfillment. You claim to be a long-time dealer. If so, then you should know better.
It's also not a matter of "helping" someone. I can rob a bank and give the money to the poor. I'm helping people, and will certainly put a smile on their face, and get many thank yous as well, but it is wrong to steal.
The more people who make copies and give them away, the more that the copyright owner loses sales and revenue. To make their revenue goals on catalog sales, they have to raise the price of the catalogs that those who buy the catalogs will have to pay. So, those who pay higher prices for the product are not smiling over what you and others do by copying the catalogs.
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
On Page 2A of the 2011 Scott Volume 3 (Countries G-I) there is a COPYRIGHT NOTICE and TRADEMARK NOTICE directly below the TABLE OF CONTENTS.
These notices are printed in every volume of the Scott Catalogue.
The Unitrade Specialized Catalogue of Canadian Stamps (2012 edition) has inside their cover the following COPYRIGHT notice and I quote...........
"COPYRIGHT - The contents of this book are owned exclusively by The Unitrade Press. "The Scott Numbers are the copyrighted property of Amos Press Inc., dba Scott Publishing Co. and are used here under a licensing agreement with Scott. The marks Scott and Scott's are Registered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, and are trademarks of Amos Press Inc., dba Scott Publishing Co. No use may be made of these marks or of material in this publication which is reprinted from a copyrighted publication of Amos Press. Inc., without the express written permission of Amos Press, Inc., dba Scott Publishing Co., Sidney, Ohio 45365."
No part of this book may be reproduced in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, without permission in writing from the Unitrade Press. Copyright 2012 The Unitrade Press, Toronto, Canada M6L 2C4"
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Just for the record,Google had the link for the catalogs. I just checked again, and it has now been removed.
I have also notified the people that I had sent the link to that it is against copyright laws to use it.
You know if I had not sent this link to SOR, the link probably would have still been on Google and elsewhere
Richaard
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
there's a bill in US Congress right now; i think it's passed one chamber; it's called SCOBA and refers to US DOJ's rights to police the internet and file charges on publishers' and other rights holders' behalf. It essentially gives DOJ the right (and perhaps the responsibility) to sue on others' behalf.
This tengentially relates to the copyright infringement that others have perpetrated, and such sites as the one distributing copyrighted material for free are the stated targets. Of course, this is smoke and mirrors; the real target is the internet and efforts to control it.
David
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
I also want to comment upon "google had the link." Google is not an arbiter; they merely make all things available. Their criteria is around utiity and relevance, not legality nor ethics.
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Not entirely true David, Google claims to be impartial, but most of the time it removes links to copyrighted material from its search results if it is asked to.
Jan-Simon
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
David - it is Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). At the same time, "The Pirate Party" is now a real international political party that has won elected offices in Sweden and Germany.
Josh
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
thanks Josh, i've begun to think of myself as Mr Malaprop (the four-engined, wide-bodied version manufactured by Boring for the Hair Lift Command).
i had no idea this had gained political traction outside the states. I think ANY regulation of the internet is bound to bite the users, and SOPA seems particularly nasty, going after the providers rather than posters.
David
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Jansimon said, "I do not think our influence is so big Google notices it."
Actually, Google is responsive to suggested changes. I once noticed that Google Maps had an error — quite an amusing error, actually — in its map of my home town, Silver City, New Mexico. I sent an email to Google, and several months later the map was corrected.
The Scott catalogue links which were removed may not have been removed by Google, but by the owner of the web site after someone pointed out or complained about the potential for copyright infringement.
I hope you'll find the following anecdote interesting. It ends with a further comment about copyright:
---
The story behind the Google error is interesting. The error clearly indicated Main Street, between Hudson and Bullard Streets, running north and south for several blocks. It was an error because most of Main Street, where about half of downtown businesses were located, was washed away over the course of several floods in the late 1800s and early 1900s. The roadbed was scoured down to bedrock, about 30 feet below the former street level; the floods resulted from heavy rains in the nearby mountains which had been overgrazed by livestock and denuded by forestry. Homes and businesses which had fronted on Main Street were heavily damaged. One contemporaneous photo shows a grand piano hanging over the abyss from the second floor of a fancy home.
Some of the original, damaged buidlings still are in use; their owners simply rebuilt the damaged or missing walls, and did some renovation, turning the former backs of the buildings into the fronts. Bullard Street, which before the floods was an alley, became one of Silver City's two main business streets. When my wife and I were in high school, we and our friends used to "drag Main" in our cars (or our parents' cars). Of course, we were really "dragging Bullard" because Main Street had long ago been washed out into the desert south of Silver City.
Today, part of the original Main Street still exists as a street, but only for a few blocks, north of downtown. Most people don't realize that the Big Ditch, which now exists as the main feature of a long and skinny city park, used to be a street. Interestingly, Bullard Street even today has some of the highest curbs you'll ever encounter, because to this day heavy rains fill it with run-off water.
Click here to read my web page, "An old cover takes me home — Growing up in historic Silver City, New Mexico with Billy the Kid, Geronimo, and Roy Rogers". The web page includes a spectacular photo of the Big Ditch taken during the time of the flooding, plus a photo showing part of the Big Ditch as it looks today. And one of me in my days as a gunslinger and my horse Chubby. (Actually, Chubby was my sister's horse. What self-respecting gunslinger would own a horse named Chubby?!)
Finally, an uncomfortable aside: I have almost never attempted to get permission to use images of postcards and stamps in my various web pages, and I worry that some new legislation or regulation or watchdog will target me and demand payment of exorbitant fees or that I remove my web pages. This is exactly what happened to Anne Mette Heindorff, who lived in Copenhagen; she had to take down most of her huge Art on Stamps web site after Copy-Dan demanded payment on behalf of copyright owners or removal of the web site. She was planning on going to court over it (she was a lawyer), but tragically was diagnosed with brain cancer and died several months later.
Bob
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Bob Graham, i am mad at you! For the last nine hours, except for an hour for dinner, I have been reading the story of your life. Being very inquisitive, I had to read everything, from Silver City to your Vietnam vacation. On finishing it, I have come to two conclusions: One this story should certainly be published as a book, and two it should be made into a movie. Some of the things I noted was that you like chocolate ice cream sodas just as I did, and still do. I used to by them with two scoops for 25¢. You mention Dick Tracy, and I always thought that he was a comic book detective. Speaking of Dick Tracy, there is a postcard collector/dealer, who is a member of the Rhode Island Postcard Club by that name. Strange, but I do not remember Re Allen. I remember Harry Carey, Roy, Gene, Rory, etc, but not Rex. That nurse, Juel Loughney whose picture was painted by Christine Laubach, makes me think that if I ever have to go to a hospital again, I hope I get one that looks like her. Looking at pictures of your airplane crash, I wonder how you ever walked away from it. I am sure that someone has saved you to go on to grater things, perhaps that movie I mention above, or perhaps President of USA. You got my vote.
In case I forget, Happy Anniversary on the 27th.
Richard (with one "a")
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Richard with one a, thank you! It does indeed seem like you read my entire web site. Well, you didn't mention Joe Hicks, or my Uncle Phil, but you still get a pass.
Rex Allen was indeed one of the (perhaps lesser known) cowboy movie stars. He wore his pair of six guns backwards. When I was maybe eight or nine, he came to Silver City to promote one of his films. He spoke from t-e steps of City Hall, in costume, and suddenly did his cross-armed draw and fired his pistols into the air. I was so impressed that I started wearing my own six-guns backward. This photo must have been taken before that, since the holsters are in the normal position.
Dick Tracy was of course a comic strip detective. I never got to thank him or the other smoke jumper, Kirk Samsel, for rescuing me. Dick was on his death bed with cancer when I finally located him, just a few years ago, and I later learned that Kirk had been killed, rather ironically, in a plane crash.
Not sure about your reference to the nurse. I don't recall mentioning a nurse, although I did fall in love with Miss Curteau, an instructor of my Hospital Corps School company in San Diego. Alas, she was several years older and probably well aware that my life expectancy as a corpsman was rather short!
You aren't, of course, the first person to mention my seemingly miraculous survival in that airplane crash. The plane was completely, utterly destroyed, and the pilot badly injured, but I suffered mainly insignificant cuts, abrasions, bruises and a light concussion. And a good thing came out of it: I have a complete collection of stamps showing the Beech T-34 Mentor trainer. Here it is. The complete collection. At least I've never seen another stamp showing this aircraft. If anyone has, let me know, because I hate having incomplete collections!
Bob
P.S. I'll pass on the presidential nomination. Someone would look into my past and discover that I am now — Gasp! — a Canadian!
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re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
Bob,
Read about Uncle Phil. He sure was lucky, coming out without a scratch. Quite a guy.
As for Joe Hicks, I read about him somewhere else awhile back. he certainly was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Due to a case of walking pneumonia, I got pulled off the shipment to Okinawa. Most of the guys in the platoon were killed.
Here I am in uniform in 1944 (Army Air Corps). pictures taken in Atlanta, GA.
I was 21. Gee was I ever that young? Is that really me?
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
17 Dec 2011
12:18:41pm
re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
" ... ...I don't know if I myself could go that long without "playing stamps".....unless of course I was fishing......"
I had lunch and visited Theresa and Richard a couple of times right after they physically moved to that part of South Florida before I returned to West Central Florida myself. I can understand how the unpacking process might take quite some time. Theresa has boxes and boxes as well as a wall and a half full of albums. Getting settled is a project that involves time and energy.
When I moved here from New York twenty four years ago it not only took me a long time to unpack, every so often over the next two or three years I'd come across some box or carton that had not been disturbed since that big move.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
17 Dec 2011
12:23:47pm
re: Copyright discussion, mostly, plus Richaard in uniform and a T-34 from which Ingraham walked away
" ... Please do NOT use this site to circumvent the law. It is illegal to distribute copyrighted material to which you don't have rights.
Copyright is protected by law; and there are penalties for its violation. For those of you who have not paid attention to the philatelic papers, like Linn's (owned by Amos, as is Scott), Scott and Amos are ball busters about protecting their copyright. They've shut down others who have used their numbering system without proper permission. They shut down Mellon's FDC catalogue (it's since been merged with Amos).
David ..."
Besides which it is stealing, plain and simple and just as dishonorable as removing some stamps from a dealer's table at a show without paying. The kind of thing that is certainly not acceptable by this fine group.
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