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United States/Covers & Postmarks : Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

 

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lisagrant87
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis

16 May 2012
07:16:38pm
I received these stamped envelopes as part of an auction lot. Can anyone identify the R.F. overprint?
I know A is a UC4 or UC5 and B is a UCM1.
A
Image Not Found
B
Image Not Found

I do have a paper that came with them, I imagine when they were received, but I don't want to taint anyone's ideas as I'm not sure what is written there is correct.
Thank you all!
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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

16 May 2012
08:35:10pm

Auctions
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

free French forces; don't know much about them other than they have been heavily forged

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michael78651

17 May 2012
02:07:47pm
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

The Scott US Specialized shows the known valid types of RF overprints, and has a short informational section about them. The "RF" overprint is only known to genuinely exist on Scott #C25,UC3,UC4 and UC6. C25 must be on cover, and the stamped envelopes must be entires.

Regarding your items, the font of your "RF" overprints is not included in the list of valid overprints, the overprint is not known on your Item B, and the fact that the items are unused also makes both of your examples, in Scott's words, "questionable". Also, the genuine "RF" overprints have been counterfeited.

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lisagrant87
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis

19 May 2012
09:11:36pm
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

This is the paper that came with the envelopes. The handwritten word at the bottom is not mine. I have read a lot about philatelic forgeries and I have some questions. Do these forgeries come from actual companies? Is it a bunch of people in basements doing it? And why is it so widespread in philately? Or is that just the impression I got? Are there people who collect forgeries or do all collectors have the reaction I had which is, "Seriously? Get out of my collection!!"

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

20 May 2012
01:07:01pm
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

Lisa,
Why not go to the source about your "find". It appears that "Lyn co" is still in business. Shoot them your scan and ask them what they know about those items.
I search through my Ceres catalog but didn't find a thing about ANY United States stamps that were over printed with the RF. Only French stamps and 3 German stamps had that over print and nothing for Toulon. Also, only three of the stamps listed were in script rather than the regular type like we are using here.

This is what I found on Google for Lyn co.

"lynco. stamps near Lincoln, NE 68508 - Featured Result
yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=lynco.+stamps&area=68508&search...

1. Lyn-Co Stamps & Coins - (402) 464-8198
2641 N 48th St, Lincoln, NE"


Good luck and please let us know what transpires in your continued search.

Mike

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michael78651

20 May 2012
02:51:09pm
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

Forgeries and counterfeits have been, for the most part, a very shady part of the hobby, and they are prolific.

There are many collectors who collect these stamps, especially those from well known forgers, such as Speratti. Some are worth more than the genuine stamps!

The counterfeits simply are made by a company, person or people who's intent is to defraud the government/post office (can be of any country).

Some are printed with the government's permission using the same plates from which the originals were made. These are not forgeries (defined as stamps printed to defraud collectors), but official reprints, such as the reprints of the early stamps from El Salvador. Even governments have reprinted their stamps. The United States has done this. China reprinted their earlier stamps (with minor modifications made to the original plates) in order to meet collector demand.

Many forgeries were made back in the early 20th century to meet dealer demand for what was known as the "packet trade". These were unauthorized reprints of stamps used by dealers to sell to collectors in packets. This was done to meet demand of collectors wanting to fill the spaces in their albums during a time when the hobby was becoming increasingly popular. Early Iranian stamps are ripe with forgeries of this nature, and the forgeries far outnumber the genuine stamps.

Forgeries and counterfeits don't have to be of valuable stamps. Many are of common stamps, and a few are probably sitting unknown in many collectors' albums.

It's just one of those things that collectors have had to contend with almost since the beginning of the hobby.

Linn's has a nice little book that goes in and out of print, called "Focus on Forgeries". It was compiled from a bi-weekly article written by the late Varro E. Tyler. It is a low cost guide to forgeries of common stamps, and is written in easy terms with pictures of the genuine and forged stamps for comparison. A great book to get to learn more about this, and I recommend it.

There also is "The Serrane Guide", which is a publication of the American Philatelic Society. It is translated from French, but has a wealth of information of forged stamps up to 1929. It can be difficult to read at times, because the translations are sometimes more literal than exact, and it can read like a technical manual at times. However, there is some good information about the stamps, and you'll find that Geneva was a hotbed of forgery. It is good to have, if you want to do research in this area.

There are other books out there relating to this subject, and the various catalogs offer some help on some stamps, but the catalogs are far from comprehensive, but a good start in a novice kind of way. At least the catalogs provide alerts about forgeries and counterfeits, which can steer a collector to one of the books for research.




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lisagrant87
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis

21 May 2012
10:07:55am
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

So far no answer and no answering machine at this company. I'll let everyone know if I get any further.

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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

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jobi01

23 May 2012
10:00:02am
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

ALL SCRIPT RF OVERPRINTS are bogus. They were applied in New York city to otherwise common items to improve the profits of a dealer. All genuine RF overprints are on used items, covers will include a Poste Navale CDS, will be addressed to US or Canada, return address will be for french naval personnel. No boxed 6c surcharged postal stationery was ever used by the Free French Forces. More details are available in the article Counterfeits, fakes, forgeries & other oddities of U.S. Airmail Postal Stationery archived on http://jobi.bizhosting.com

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lisagrant87
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis

25 May 2012
10:13:20am
re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

Does anyone here collect stamp forgeries? I would be willing to sell or trade these forged envelopes. Does anyone know someone who would be interested? Please email me at LMAR_80 at hotmail dot com.
Thank you!

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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

lisaslunacy.com
        

 

Author/Postings

It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
16 May 2012
07:16:38pm

I received these stamped envelopes as part of an auction lot. Can anyone identify the R.F. overprint?
I know A is a UC4 or UC5 and B is a UCM1.
A
Image Not Found
B
Image Not Found

I do have a paper that came with them, I imagine when they were received, but I don't want to taint anyone's ideas as I'm not sure what is written there is correct.
Thank you all!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

lisaslunacy.com
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
16 May 2012
08:35:10pm

Auctions

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

free French forces; don't know much about them other than they have been heavily forged

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
michael78651

17 May 2012
02:07:47pm

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

The Scott US Specialized shows the known valid types of RF overprints, and has a short informational section about them. The "RF" overprint is only known to genuinely exist on Scott #C25,UC3,UC4 and UC6. C25 must be on cover, and the stamped envelopes must be entires.

Regarding your items, the font of your "RF" overprints is not included in the list of valid overprints, the overprint is not known on your Item B, and the fact that the items are unused also makes both of your examples, in Scott's words, "questionable". Also, the genuine "RF" overprints have been counterfeited.

Like
Login to Like
this post

It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
19 May 2012
09:11:36pm

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

This is the paper that came with the envelopes. The handwritten word at the bottom is not mine. I have read a lot about philatelic forgeries and I have some questions. Do these forgeries come from actual companies? Is it a bunch of people in basements doing it? And why is it so widespread in philately? Or is that just the impression I got? Are there people who collect forgeries or do all collectors have the reaction I had which is, "Seriously? Get out of my collection!!"

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

lisaslunacy.com
Members Picture
CapeStampMan

Mike
20 May 2012
01:07:01pm

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

Lisa,
Why not go to the source about your "find". It appears that "Lyn co" is still in business. Shoot them your scan and ask them what they know about those items.
I search through my Ceres catalog but didn't find a thing about ANY United States stamps that were over printed with the RF. Only French stamps and 3 German stamps had that over print and nothing for Toulon. Also, only three of the stamps listed were in script rather than the regular type like we are using here.

This is what I found on Google for Lyn co.

"lynco. stamps near Lincoln, NE 68508 - Featured Result
yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=lynco.+stamps&area=68508&search...

1. Lyn-Co Stamps & Coins - (402) 464-8198
2641 N 48th St, Lincoln, NE"


Good luck and please let us know what transpires in your continued search.

Mike

Like
Login to Like
this post

"It's been 7 years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
michael78651

20 May 2012
02:51:09pm

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

Forgeries and counterfeits have been, for the most part, a very shady part of the hobby, and they are prolific.

There are many collectors who collect these stamps, especially those from well known forgers, such as Speratti. Some are worth more than the genuine stamps!

The counterfeits simply are made by a company, person or people who's intent is to defraud the government/post office (can be of any country).

Some are printed with the government's permission using the same plates from which the originals were made. These are not forgeries (defined as stamps printed to defraud collectors), but official reprints, such as the reprints of the early stamps from El Salvador. Even governments have reprinted their stamps. The United States has done this. China reprinted their earlier stamps (with minor modifications made to the original plates) in order to meet collector demand.

Many forgeries were made back in the early 20th century to meet dealer demand for what was known as the "packet trade". These were unauthorized reprints of stamps used by dealers to sell to collectors in packets. This was done to meet demand of collectors wanting to fill the spaces in their albums during a time when the hobby was becoming increasingly popular. Early Iranian stamps are ripe with forgeries of this nature, and the forgeries far outnumber the genuine stamps.

Forgeries and counterfeits don't have to be of valuable stamps. Many are of common stamps, and a few are probably sitting unknown in many collectors' albums.

It's just one of those things that collectors have had to contend with almost since the beginning of the hobby.

Linn's has a nice little book that goes in and out of print, called "Focus on Forgeries". It was compiled from a bi-weekly article written by the late Varro E. Tyler. It is a low cost guide to forgeries of common stamps, and is written in easy terms with pictures of the genuine and forged stamps for comparison. A great book to get to learn more about this, and I recommend it.

There also is "The Serrane Guide", which is a publication of the American Philatelic Society. It is translated from French, but has a wealth of information of forged stamps up to 1929. It can be difficult to read at times, because the translations are sometimes more literal than exact, and it can read like a technical manual at times. However, there is some good information about the stamps, and you'll find that Geneva was a hotbed of forgery. It is good to have, if you want to do research in this area.

There are other books out there relating to this subject, and the various catalogs offer some help on some stamps, but the catalogs are far from comprehensive, but a good start in a novice kind of way. At least the catalogs provide alerts about forgeries and counterfeits, which can steer a collector to one of the books for research.




Like
Login to Like
this post

It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
21 May 2012
10:07:55am

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

So far no answer and no answering machine at this company. I'll let everyone know if I get any further.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

lisaslunacy.com
jobi01

23 May 2012
10:00:02am

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

ALL SCRIPT RF OVERPRINTS are bogus. They were applied in New York city to otherwise common items to improve the profits of a dealer. All genuine RF overprints are on used items, covers will include a Poste Navale CDS, will be addressed to US or Canada, return address will be for french naval personnel. No boxed 6c surcharged postal stationery was ever used by the Free French Forces. More details are available in the article Counterfeits, fakes, forgeries & other oddities of U.S. Airmail Postal Stationery archived on http://jobi.bizhosting.com

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

jobi.bizhosting.com

It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
25 May 2012
10:13:20am

re: Airmail postal stationary with R.F. Overprint?

Does anyone here collect stamp forgeries? I would be willing to sell or trade these forged envelopes. Does anyone know someone who would be interested? Please email me at LMAR_80 at hotmail dot com.
Thank you!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

lisaslunacy.com
        

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