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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Auction Disc. : What should we do with old auction invoices

 

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auldstampguy
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Collector, Webmaster

30 Dec 2012
03:32:14pm
Mike Fisher raise the question on another thread about removing old invoices. I'm starting this thread to let us discuss just what we should do with the old invoices.

Some of our members do list and sell a lot of auction lots, so the list of invoices is getting quite extensive for them. In considering what to do with the invoices you have to realize that the invoice is a two way thing, it is seen by the seller in their list of invoices and it is seen by the buyer in the "My Invoices" option under the Buyers dropdown menu. The data is shared by both views so if we delete the old invoices from one we delete them from the other.

As well as the invoice data, we are holding all the lot information and all the images that were loaded onto the SOR server. Many of the members choose to host the auction lot images elsewhere but we probably have well over 200,000 auction lot images on the SOR server.

Another thing to consider is the 12 Months Sales Summary report that is found under the Reports option in the Sellers dropdown menu. This report takes it's data from the sold and unsold auction lots history records, so it is worthwhile keeping at least 12 months of this data.

Proposal: I'd like to propose two things:

1. When an invoice is acknowledged as received, the invoice is automatically put into Closed status.

2. I write a program that will run on a regular basis that will delete invoice and sold lot data, where the invoice is in a Closed status and the invoice is older than 12 months. At the same time I would delete the images associated with the lots being deleted from the SOR server.

Please give me your thoughts.

Regards ... Tim.


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Logistical1
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30 Dec 2012
04:40:23pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,
Invoices are not always aknowledged or paid. I would be fine with deleting anything older then 12 months.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

30 Dec 2012
05:16:44pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Sellers who are dealers may have a tax need to keep their records for at least 3 years in case of audit. I would prefer to have the invoices older than 12 months go into an archive that can be viewed by selecting a range of dates.

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

30 Dec 2012
05:52:38pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,

Thank you once again, for jumping right on this issue.

Twelve months is more than sufficient, as far as I'm concerned. I certainly agree with Michael Coutts in the fact that all auctions may not be acknowledged or paid, but am concerned about michael78651's need to keep records of his earnings, unless he is applying for "assistance" since he stated that he only makes 25 cents an hour selling stamps. ROFLOL (I'm sure you know I'm just kidding, Michael!)

Seriously, I feel that a year is a long time to keep those records anyway, but am happy to go along with the popular descision, as long as I can get rid of some of the mess in my files, in a quicker process than is available presently. I do keep copies of all of my scans, of auctions, on my own computer, or disc, in case of an issue, but that should be a mute point after 30 or 45 days anyway. Anyone that wants to dispute an auction most certainly shouldn't wait that long.

Mike

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tomiseksj
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30 Dec 2012
08:21:58pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

As a relatively new member, I've never seen an invoice.

Is there currently an option that will allow either the buyer or seller to download and/or email a copy of the invoice so that they may keep it in their personal records?

If not, that may be worth pursuing for those who would like to maintain the invoices for longer than the 12 month period currently being discussed.

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cdj1122
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30 Dec 2012
08:59:14pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,
Your idea seems good to me and an achive accessible by the seller or buyer would be a good idea fo those in business.
Does that make your work too complicated ?
For me, I have never kept any paper invoices from any purchase more than a few weeks, except by accident, after I have the stamps and of course the seller will already have his payment.
But I was watching the list of won lots getting longer and longer and I was hoping that I would not have to scroll down to the bottom of a long long list every time I wanted to see what was happening so perhaps a option for casual collectors to delete old invoices and stuff after thee or four months could be included.
How all this cyber recording works is an interesting mystery but always a revelation to me.
I noticed a few weeks ago that Yahoo has a record of every singe e-mail I sent or received, wanted or unwanted, in the twelve years since I started with a Web-TV asccount with my TV as a monitor. That looks like well over 20,000 e-mails all on a cloud somewhere. If there is a "Where" when they talk about data on a cloud in cyberspace in the first place.
So, as far as my opinion goes, I suspect that you know best and understand the comlications involved.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

30 Dec 2012
10:08:45pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Michael, I understand...LOL

I agree that the invoices that would be viewable should be no more than 12 months. After that, they would be removed from the active view. Someone wanting to see older invoices would have to select the time frame to view, and then those would become visible. That's what I was trying to say.

By the way, Michael, those quarters do add up over time!

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

30 Dec 2012
10:29:15pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Michael,

I am very jealous that you are making that quarter an hour, since my wages this week were probably in the 1 to 2 cent range. (you don't see an LOL here, do you?)

Mike

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Woodstock

31 Dec 2012
06:41:30pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,
An excellent idea.
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lpayette
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31 Dec 2012
11:32:27pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Good idea Tim
Lee

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daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

03 Jan 2013
11:00:34pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,

How about placing an option to allow the seller/buyer to delete an invoice on demand. Personally, I print out and keep every invoice so there isn't a need for me to keep it on the server. Michael is right...some invoices are never acknowledged as paid..so it seems like permitting a delete on demand function would make sense for both. The only real concern I have with keeping a lot of invoices on the server as archives is the redundancy of it and the space they will take up over time. But....having said that...it's just an idea. Whatever the group wants is fine with me.

Dave

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parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

04 Jan 2013
06:40:09am
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Instead of purging invoices, would it be possible to put a filter on the invoices similar to the Lots Sold? That way you will only see the invoices for a specific time period. Even though I print out all my invoices, you never know what can go wrong. Look what happened to Carl's house. I would like to keep all my invoices available if there is no problem with disk space on our server.

Bob

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dell4c

24 Oct 2018
04:13:09pm

Approvals
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

i still see old closed invoices - is there a way to delete them ?

thanks
Bob

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

24 Oct 2018
04:31:18pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Good idea Tim.
I seldom if ever look at sales or purchased material older than 6 months, so your one year suggestion is more than adequate for me.
rrr...

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sheepshanks
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24 Oct 2018
04:56:11pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Twelve months is also fine by me. We get an email which lists the stamps purchased, so this can be kept for as long as wanted. After a year the images are really irrelevant.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

24 Oct 2018
06:49:57pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Wow, this suggestion is 6 years old. Anyway, I agree with the rest of the brood.

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24 Oct 2018
08:37:08pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Hopefully someone who has been through an IRS audit can comment on the need to access invoice records back two or three years. Also keep in mind that fiscal years differ- in New York sales tax is reported and paid annually on a March 1st to Feb 28/29 basis and filed in early March.

Even those who consider it a hobby probably should keep some kind of record in the event that the IRS wants to query re: capital gains tax (may happen if you sell a collection to a dealer for over $600 and receive a 1099)... Yes - it happens .. and yes, without purchase records you may be sol depending ...

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Liz

30 Oct 2018
02:02:09pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

As far as I know Revenue Canada says we must keep records for SEVEN years, unless this 'rule' has changed within the past few years.

Liz

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

30 Oct 2018
05:42:00pm
re: What should we do with old auction invoices

In the US you should keep records for 3 years (from date of filing) unless you have declared a loss or deductions from a debt (then 7 years).

That said, my opinion is that Stamporama should be keeping records for anyone beyond what they decide is feasible. If that is one year, then it is the members responsibly to download the info and archive it for themselves. As long as Stamporama communicates and allows folks to download their information the period they store it is up to those who are paying for the Stamporama hosting and disk space.
Don

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Author/Postings
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auldstampguy

Collector, Webmaster
30 Dec 2012
03:32:14pm

Mike Fisher raise the question on another thread about removing old invoices. I'm starting this thread to let us discuss just what we should do with the old invoices.

Some of our members do list and sell a lot of auction lots, so the list of invoices is getting quite extensive for them. In considering what to do with the invoices you have to realize that the invoice is a two way thing, it is seen by the seller in their list of invoices and it is seen by the buyer in the "My Invoices" option under the Buyers dropdown menu. The data is shared by both views so if we delete the old invoices from one we delete them from the other.

As well as the invoice data, we are holding all the lot information and all the images that were loaded onto the SOR server. Many of the members choose to host the auction lot images elsewhere but we probably have well over 200,000 auction lot images on the SOR server.

Another thing to consider is the 12 Months Sales Summary report that is found under the Reports option in the Sellers dropdown menu. This report takes it's data from the sold and unsold auction lots history records, so it is worthwhile keeping at least 12 months of this data.

Proposal: I'd like to propose two things:

1. When an invoice is acknowledged as received, the invoice is automatically put into Closed status.

2. I write a program that will run on a regular basis that will delete invoice and sold lot data, where the invoice is in a Closed status and the invoice is older than 12 months. At the same time I would delete the images associated with the lots being deleted from the SOR server.

Please give me your thoughts.

Regards ... Tim.


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mncancels.org
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Logistical1

30 Dec 2012
04:40:23pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,
Invoices are not always aknowledged or paid. I would be fine with deleting anything older then 12 months.

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
30 Dec 2012
05:16:44pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Sellers who are dealers may have a tax need to keep their records for at least 3 years in case of audit. I would prefer to have the invoices older than 12 months go into an archive that can be viewed by selecting a range of dates.

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CapeStampMan

Mike
30 Dec 2012
05:52:38pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,

Thank you once again, for jumping right on this issue.

Twelve months is more than sufficient, as far as I'm concerned. I certainly agree with Michael Coutts in the fact that all auctions may not be acknowledged or paid, but am concerned about michael78651's need to keep records of his earnings, unless he is applying for "assistance" since he stated that he only makes 25 cents an hour selling stamps. ROFLOL (I'm sure you know I'm just kidding, Michael!)

Seriously, I feel that a year is a long time to keep those records anyway, but am happy to go along with the popular descision, as long as I can get rid of some of the mess in my files, in a quicker process than is available presently. I do keep copies of all of my scans, of auctions, on my own computer, or disc, in case of an issue, but that should be a mute point after 30 or 45 days anyway. Anyone that wants to dispute an auction most certainly shouldn't wait that long.

Mike

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tomiseksj

30 Dec 2012
08:21:58pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

As a relatively new member, I've never seen an invoice.

Is there currently an option that will allow either the buyer or seller to download and/or email a copy of the invoice so that they may keep it in their personal records?

If not, that may be worth pursuing for those who would like to maintain the invoices for longer than the 12 month period currently being discussed.

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"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Dec 2012
08:59:14pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,
Your idea seems good to me and an achive accessible by the seller or buyer would be a good idea fo those in business.
Does that make your work too complicated ?
For me, I have never kept any paper invoices from any purchase more than a few weeks, except by accident, after I have the stamps and of course the seller will already have his payment.
But I was watching the list of won lots getting longer and longer and I was hoping that I would not have to scroll down to the bottom of a long long list every time I wanted to see what was happening so perhaps a option for casual collectors to delete old invoices and stuff after thee or four months could be included.
How all this cyber recording works is an interesting mystery but always a revelation to me.
I noticed a few weeks ago that Yahoo has a record of every singe e-mail I sent or received, wanted or unwanted, in the twelve years since I started with a Web-TV asccount with my TV as a monitor. That looks like well over 20,000 e-mails all on a cloud somewhere. If there is a "Where" when they talk about data on a cloud in cyberspace in the first place.
So, as far as my opinion goes, I suspect that you know best and understand the comlications involved.

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
30 Dec 2012
10:08:45pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Michael, I understand...LOL

I agree that the invoices that would be viewable should be no more than 12 months. After that, they would be removed from the active view. Someone wanting to see older invoices would have to select the time frame to view, and then those would become visible. That's what I was trying to say.

By the way, Michael, those quarters do add up over time!

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CapeStampMan

Mike
30 Dec 2012
10:29:15pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Michael,

I am very jealous that you are making that quarter an hour, since my wages this week were probably in the 1 to 2 cent range. (you don't see an LOL here, do you?)

Mike

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Woodstock

31 Dec 2012
06:41:30pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,
An excellent idea.
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lpayette

31 Dec 2012
11:32:27pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Good idea Tim
Lee

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daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

03 Jan 2013
11:00:34pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Tim,

How about placing an option to allow the seller/buyer to delete an invoice on demand. Personally, I print out and keep every invoice so there isn't a need for me to keep it on the server. Michael is right...some invoices are never acknowledged as paid..so it seems like permitting a delete on demand function would make sense for both. The only real concern I have with keeping a lot of invoices on the server as archives is the redundancy of it and the space they will take up over time. But....having said that...it's just an idea. Whatever the group wants is fine with me.

Dave

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"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
04 Jan 2013
06:40:09am

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Instead of purging invoices, would it be possible to put a filter on the invoices similar to the Lots Sold? That way you will only see the invoices for a specific time period. Even though I print out all my invoices, you never know what can go wrong. Look what happened to Carl's house. I would like to keep all my invoices available if there is no problem with disk space on our server.

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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dell4c

24 Oct 2018
04:13:09pm

Approvals

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

i still see old closed invoices - is there a way to delete them ?

thanks
Bob

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant
24 Oct 2018
04:31:18pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Good idea Tim.
I seldom if ever look at sales or purchased material older than 6 months, so your one year suggestion is more than adequate for me.
rrr...

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sheepshanks

24 Oct 2018
04:56:11pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Twelve months is also fine by me. We get an email which lists the stamps purchased, so this can be kept for as long as wanted. After a year the images are really irrelevant.

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
24 Oct 2018
06:49:57pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Wow, this suggestion is 6 years old. Anyway, I agree with the rest of the brood.

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"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

24 Oct 2018
08:37:08pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

Hopefully someone who has been through an IRS audit can comment on the need to access invoice records back two or three years. Also keep in mind that fiscal years differ- in New York sales tax is reported and paid annually on a March 1st to Feb 28/29 basis and filed in early March.

Even those who consider it a hobby probably should keep some kind of record in the event that the IRS wants to query re: capital gains tax (may happen if you sell a collection to a dealer for over $600 and receive a 1099)... Yes - it happens .. and yes, without purchase records you may be sol depending ...

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Patches

Liz

30 Oct 2018
02:02:09pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

As far as I know Revenue Canada says we must keep records for SEVEN years, unless this 'rule' has changed within the past few years.

Liz

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51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
30 Oct 2018
05:42:00pm

re: What should we do with old auction invoices

In the US you should keep records for 3 years (from date of filing) unless you have declared a loss or deductions from a debt (then 7 years).

That said, my opinion is that Stamporama should be keeping records for anyone beyond what they decide is feasible. If that is one year, then it is the members responsibly to download the info and archive it for themselves. As long as Stamporama communicates and allows folks to download their information the period they store it is up to those who are paying for the Stamporama hosting and disk space.
Don

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