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United States/Stamps : wet/dry printing prominent americans?

 

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thebiggnome
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04 Feb 2013
09:53:10am
I had a pile of dupes from the Liberty series and decided to see if I had all the wet and dry printing varieties. I did, so I added them to the margins of my album. Now I'm sorting some Prominent Americans and I see the same wet/dry differences in many of the issues. Scott does not list wet/dry varieties for this series. Does anyone know why or why not?

Does anyone have a list of all issues with wet/dry varieties so I can tell if I have them all?

Chris
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tomiseksj
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04 Feb 2013
10:26:42am
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Per the "Wet and Dry Printings" note in the 2011 Scott Specialized catalog (p. 103), "All postage stamps have been printed by the "dry" process since the late 1950s."

Steve

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saleem
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04 Feb 2013
11:09:56am
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

The Prominet American series does have a few tagging varieties and some perforation variations. There are some tagging omitted varieties which may look like 'dry printings' to naked eye.

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thebiggnome
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04 Feb 2013
12:53:39pm
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Assuming the info is correct, that there were no wet printings, what causes the difference seen here? It sure looks like the same difference between wet and dry to me.

Image Not Found Image Not Found

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michael78651

04 Feb 2013
01:15:11pm
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

See Saleem's post above yours.

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thebiggnome
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04 Feb 2013
02:56:15pm
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

So you would say this is a tagging variety? Neither glows under UV. Did the tagging make the ink soak in more, but then wash away?

Also, Scott does not list a tagging omitted variety for 1304C, which these are.

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tomiseksj
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04 Feb 2013
03:32:21pm
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

""Neither glows under UV.""



Are you using a short wavelength UV light?
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saleem
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04 Feb 2013
10:47:31pm
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Under the Prominent American series listing of sheet issues there is a small note "On No. 1283B the highlights and shadows have been softened".
Now this 1283B is the redrawn sheet single with Scott image ID No. A715a, the other one is ID No. A715. The images of the coil singles you have uploaded are Sc #1305 (image ID A715) and Sc #1305C (image ID A715a).
These - being the letter rate definitive issues of the period - were printed a numbre of times and therefore slight differences bound to appear in shades and paper. Here are the few known reprints of this issue, the date of issue that I have is 1981 (unconfirmed):
1304C Dull Gum
1304C (1) Dull Gum No Response Paper (Dead Paper)
1304C (2) Dull Gum Low High Bright Paper
1304C (3) Dull Gum High Bright Paper

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thebiggnome
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06 Feb 2013
09:56:34am
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Sorry Saleem, they're both 1304C. Here are scans of 1304's showing the same apparent difference.

Image Not Found Image Not Found

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thebiggnome
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06 Feb 2013
10:06:43am
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Steve, I guess I'm not sure. I thought I had both kinds of lamps, but only the long one says for sure. The one I thought was short doesn't say.

Would the tagging make that big a noticeable difference? Saleem's note says there are slight differences, but this seems a pretty major one to me. Take a look at your own dupes and you can easily spot the two varieties.

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tomiseksj
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06 Feb 2013
10:21:55pm
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Chris,

I can see what you're talking about but think the variation is a function of paper type and inking.

As to the tagging, you need to use short wavelength for U.S. stamps. Below are images of a pair of Scott 1304 that I took under both long and short wavelength UV light.

If yours don't light up like the second image then you likely don't have a short wavelength UV lamp.

Steve

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

07 Feb 2013
08:13:04am
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

I do not know whether my lamp is long wavelength or short. Is there a way to determine this from lettering on the bulb itself?

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tomiseksj
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07 Feb 2013
08:50:35am
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Bobby,

I'm not sure if the markings on the bulb will help you identify the wavelength but they might -- hopefully someone with more knowledge of the topic will weigh in.

What is the lettering and have you tried a Google search on it?

You're looking for a ~254nm shortwave bulb. Longwave is ~365nm.

Steve


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michael78651

07 Feb 2013
08:57:34am
re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

One way to tell if you have long wave or short wave is from the light unit itself. Short wave UV is extremely dangerous to the eyes. The unit will most likely have a restricted exit port from which the light can escape, and there may be warning signs about looking directly into the light. Long wave UV is relatively safe, and is commonly known as "black light". The bulbs on such units are usually totally exposed.

Regarding use of UV lamps, short wave UV is generally used to find tagging on stamps from the USA, UK and Canada. Long wave is generally used for finding tagging on stamps from the rest of the world. Long wave can also be used to look for imperfections in the paper, such as thins, but it may take a little bit of practice to learn that. There will be exceptions to the above, but don't we always find that in the hobby?

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
thebiggnome

04 Feb 2013
09:53:10am

I had a pile of dupes from the Liberty series and decided to see if I had all the wet and dry printing varieties. I did, so I added them to the margins of my album. Now I'm sorting some Prominent Americans and I see the same wet/dry differences in many of the issues. Scott does not list wet/dry varieties for this series. Does anyone know why or why not?

Does anyone have a list of all issues with wet/dry varieties so I can tell if I have them all?

Chris

Like
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this post
Members Picture
tomiseksj

04 Feb 2013
10:26:42am

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Per the "Wet and Dry Printings" note in the 2011 Scott Specialized catalog (p. 103), "All postage stamps have been printed by the "dry" process since the late 1950s."

Steve

Like
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this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards ...
Members Picture
saleem

04 Feb 2013
11:09:56am

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

The Prominet American series does have a few tagging varieties and some perforation variations. There are some tagging omitted varieties which may look like 'dry printings' to naked eye.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
Members Picture
thebiggnome

04 Feb 2013
12:53:39pm

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Assuming the info is correct, that there were no wet printings, what causes the difference seen here? It sure looks like the same difference between wet and dry to me.

Image Not Found Image Not Found

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michael78651

04 Feb 2013
01:15:11pm

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

See Saleem's post above yours.

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this post
Members Picture
thebiggnome

04 Feb 2013
02:56:15pm

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

So you would say this is a tagging variety? Neither glows under UV. Did the tagging make the ink soak in more, but then wash away?

Also, Scott does not list a tagging omitted variety for 1304C, which these are.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
tomiseksj

04 Feb 2013
03:32:21pm

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

""Neither glows under UV.""



Are you using a short wavelength UV light?
Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards ...
Members Picture
saleem

04 Feb 2013
10:47:31pm

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Under the Prominent American series listing of sheet issues there is a small note "On No. 1283B the highlights and shadows have been softened".
Now this 1283B is the redrawn sheet single with Scott image ID No. A715a, the other one is ID No. A715. The images of the coil singles you have uploaded are Sc #1305 (image ID A715) and Sc #1305C (image ID A715a).
These - being the letter rate definitive issues of the period - were printed a numbre of times and therefore slight differences bound to appear in shades and paper. Here are the few known reprints of this issue, the date of issue that I have is 1981 (unconfirmed):
1304C Dull Gum
1304C (1) Dull Gum No Response Paper (Dead Paper)
1304C (2) Dull Gum Low High Bright Paper
1304C (3) Dull Gum High Bright Paper

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
Members Picture
thebiggnome

06 Feb 2013
09:56:34am

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Sorry Saleem, they're both 1304C. Here are scans of 1304's showing the same apparent difference.

Image Not Found Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
thebiggnome

06 Feb 2013
10:06:43am

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Steve, I guess I'm not sure. I thought I had both kinds of lamps, but only the long one says for sure. The one I thought was short doesn't say.

Would the tagging make that big a noticeable difference? Saleem's note says there are slight differences, but this seems a pretty major one to me. Take a look at your own dupes and you can easily spot the two varieties.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
tomiseksj

06 Feb 2013
10:21:55pm

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Chris,

I can see what you're talking about but think the variation is a function of paper type and inking.

As to the tagging, you need to use short wavelength for U.S. stamps. Below are images of a pair of Scott 1304 that I took under both long and short wavelength UV light.

If yours don't light up like the second image then you likely don't have a short wavelength UV lamp.

Steve

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards ...

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
07 Feb 2013
08:13:04am

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

I do not know whether my lamp is long wavelength or short. Is there a way to determine this from lettering on the bulb itself?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
Members Picture
tomiseksj

07 Feb 2013
08:50:35am

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

Bobby,

I'm not sure if the markings on the bulb will help you identify the wavelength but they might -- hopefully someone with more knowledge of the topic will weigh in.

What is the lettering and have you tried a Google search on it?

You're looking for a ~254nm shortwave bulb. Longwave is ~365nm.

Steve


Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards ...
michael78651

07 Feb 2013
08:57:34am

re: wet/dry printing prominent americans?

One way to tell if you have long wave or short wave is from the light unit itself. Short wave UV is extremely dangerous to the eyes. The unit will most likely have a restricted exit port from which the light can escape, and there may be warning signs about looking directly into the light. Long wave UV is relatively safe, and is commonly known as "black light". The bulbs on such units are usually totally exposed.

Regarding use of UV lamps, short wave UV is generally used to find tagging on stamps from the USA, UK and Canada. Long wave is generally used for finding tagging on stamps from the rest of the world. Long wave can also be used to look for imperfections in the paper, such as thins, but it may take a little bit of practice to learn that. There will be exceptions to the above, but don't we always find that in the hobby?

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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