What we collect!

 

Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps



What we collect!
18 visitors online
What we collect!
18 visitors online


Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Auction Disc. : What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

 

Author
Postings
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

18 Apr 2013
10:37:05am
I bring this up because on 2 occasions, I've had the misfortune of having had members buy lots..in one case...quite a few lots...and then disappear off the face of the earth (metaphoricaly speaking)...ignore emails and reinvoices. In one case, this member overbid other members in his bidding. The result if that about all I can do is close the invoice since it is being ignored...and relist the lots..or not. I know that things happen and that there is always going to be that once in a barrel member that we all dread...but..my only real concern is that this person will reappear in the future and bid on more of my stamps and then here we go again. A blacklist function would allow a seller to stop that person from victimizing them yet again. I know it goes against the concept of us all being friends here...but in that once in a while case...I really think it is needed.

Dave
Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollectiblesmuseum.org
saleem
Members Picture


18 Apr 2013
01:04:28pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

This type of behavior calls for banning from Stamporama and not just being blacklisted by a seller. Should be done soon to save others from suffering the same fate. We are a friendly site but such 'pranks' are to be dealt with strongly.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

18 Apr 2013
02:16:20pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Hi Saleem,

I agree with you completely. Everyone should be made aware of the bad behavior so that they don't also fall victim to someone like that. The only advantage that blacklisting has over banning is that it can be done unilaterally by a seller without involving anyone else. I mean it is possible that someone who does that to me might get on very well with someone else. The other thing is that if I should wish to report the bad member to the Auctioneer...will I then be pulled into a time consuming procedure having to provide written proof and all that. It seems to me that it would greatly streamline the process of reporting if the victim could simply give permission to the Auctioneer to examine the bids, invoice sent and messages sent online instead of burdening the victim with having to provide all of this from the same website that the Auctioneer already has access to. Is that a possibility do you think?

Dave

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollectiblesmuseum.org
amsd
Members Picture


Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

18 Apr 2013
02:36:10pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Dave,

first, I want NO blacklists. Folks are either welcome here to bid or not. If they don't pay their bills or deliver the stamps won, they can't stay in the auction. As auctioneer, I have the authority to boot anyone not holding up their half of the bargain. They can stay in SOR, but the VC may request that they be banned. But if they can't abide by the auction rules, they can't participate here. As Saleem said, I don't want problem people visiting bad behavior on others. It gets fixed or they get tossed.

As to access, I don't have it. Don't really want it. I just need the aggrieved party to supply me with information, and I'll try to make things work. If I can't, then i'll boot.

Is there a specific instance that remains unresolved, Dave?

David the SOR auctioneer

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
michael78651
Members Picture


Moderator, MT Member

18 Apr 2013
02:41:08pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

The auctioneer here investigates complaints from members regarding non-payment and non-shipment and takes action as deemed appropriate, including expelling the member from SOR. The auction rules are very clear about the action that can be taken by the auctioneer.

You have to be extremely careful about publicly posting names and other information regarding debtors. You may not like it, but federal and state fair debt collection laws are very specific on the actions that must be taken to collect debts and the actions that creditors can do. Failure to comply with those laws can mean a law suit and hefty fines against the creditor. If you are a seller here, you are a creditor. Doesn't matter that SOR is a club or not.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
DRYER
Members Picture


The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

18 Apr 2013
03:19:33pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I support our Chief Auctioneer on this issue; blacklists evoke McCarthyism and John Le Carrée novels and hard knocks on the door at 3 o'clock in the morning.

It seems a knee-jerk reaction for Americans to get lawyered up and immerse themselves in litigation on issues we aliens might regard as the minutiae of life; but, club and auction auction rules are intended to protect all members and should be enforced when contravened. Let us not be prisoners of our fears.

Some other thoughts:

• maybe the (delinquent) buyer died, or changed his internet provider; or,

• even worse, maybe the buyer is also selling on Stamporma's auction board.

John Derry

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.com
amsd
Members Picture


Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

18 Apr 2013
03:40:31pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

i want to echo John's comment about the potential for failure beyond bad behavior. most often, problems are email accounts gone south, unremarked vacations or illnesses, and the occasional bout of forgetfulness.


in most cases things are resolved and life goes one.

only rarely do I boot people, and I hope it remains ever so

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
BobbyBarnhart
Members Picture


They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

18 Apr 2013
06:06:08pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I agree completely with David's position. I urge one and all to submit complaints to the auctioneer for resolution; do not take action yourself unless you first consult an attorney!

Michael is dead on with his warning re the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) - you think it is tough being in a lawsuit, try defending yourself in State A, while you live in State B 1000 miles away. Attorney fees for getting the site of the suit changed (even if you are successful) will bankrupt you. Then there is the fact that if you lose (and the cards are stacked against the creditor), you pay the other guy's attorney's fees as well as your own!. Doesn't seem fair, but it is what it is. (been there, done that - fortunately as the attorney)

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.net
snowy12
Members Picture


18 Apr 2013
08:53:04pm

Auctions
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Hi all
Maybe not a blacklist,but the option to block a seller who for some reason IE: does not accept paypal as a payment method ,for whatever reason,as that is the only way I can pay,from here in Australia.It seems point less to scroll through these sellers lots when you have not way to pay for them.
I know we can exclude only one seller from our options.I have tried to pick more than one seller but it didn't work.
It would be great if we had the ability to exclude more than one seller.As several of our members will not accept paypal.
So I will never be able to purchase any items from them,even if it was something I really needed!!!

Brian

Like
Login to Like
this post
CapeStampMan
Members Picture


Mike

18 Apr 2013
10:24:57pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Personally, just the mention of Blacklisting gives me "goosebumps". I don't think there has ever been a need to use that severe form of action yet. I think that most of the problems that have arisen, and when David is alerted to the problem, has been resolved very quickly and decisively. First of all, if you have a problem with a buyer, or seller, you should contact that person and try to resolve the issue, without letting it fester and become something more than it is. If that buyer or seller does not respond to your satisfaction, then it would be time to contact David about the issue, informing him of all of the details at which time he will try to resolve the problem. If and when he can't resolve the problem the offending person will more than likely not be allowed to participate in the SOR auctions any longer, if not deleted from the membership roles completely. In the 3 or 4 years that I have been around SOR I only know of one person that was an out and out thief and was sent packing quite promptly. There were also a couple of other issues that were, if memory serves me correctly, very slow payers that were also dealt with quite promptly and severely. Like I tell my wife when she complains about a product she has purchased from the store: "Take it back and tell them what the issue is, because if no one lets them know about a problem, they just assume everything is all right and who fixes a problem that no one knows about?"

Along the same lines, I don't feel that a "feedback" forum is needed here on SOR, similar to what other auction sites use. I see sellers that have rotten feedback that still continue in business, without any type of punishment it seems. It would appear that the auction venue is more interested in letting people sell, thereby producing more income for their huge pockets, than worrying about trivial matters, like customer satisfaction.

SOR is like a city and when cities get larger there are naturally more problems, so we just have to know the problem to be able to fix them. It may not be absolutely perfect, but it is sure way ahead of anything else out there and I'm very glad to be able to say I am a participating member of SOR and hope to remain so for many years to come.

Mike

Like
Login to Like
this post

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
michael78651
Members Picture


Moderator, MT Member

19 Apr 2013
01:20:54am
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I think there is a defacto feedback system on SOR as pertains to sellers. If you want to know if a seller is a good one, just look at the number of sales they have had. That doesn't mean there may not be a problem develop now and then. Everyone is human. However, if a seller has a large number of sales, overall people must be satisfied with that seller's service.

Not all auction web sites just let negative feedback get filed in the back corner and allow buyers or sellers to continue at will. BidStart, for one, reviews every negative left. If a buyer or seller receives too many negatives, that person's account is deleted. Also, BidStart does not allow retaliatory negative feedback (for example - buyer leaves a negative because items were not as described; seller leaves negative to buyer in response) and deletes such with a warning given to the leaver of such feedback. At least at that web site, negative feedback has always been taken seriously.

As for SOR, I agree with Mike. I don't think a feedback system is appropriate for SOR at this time. The day may come when it is, but that is not now.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
cdj1122
Members Picture


Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

19 Apr 2013
10:58:57am
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

" .... Also, BidStart does not allow retaliatory negative feedback (for example - buyer leaves a negative because items were not as described; seller leaves negative to buyer in response) and deletes such with a warning given to the leaver of such feedback. At least at that web site, negative feedback has always been taken seriously. ...."

That kind of behavior is what perverted the E-Bay feedback system as sellers began to refuse to give positive feedback to a prompt payer upon receiving the payment until they received positive feedback about the quality of he items that were sold.

Once that started I began to ignore the often promoted "100% positive feedback" since a positive comment could be obtained through what amounted to extortion and thus 100% meant nothing.

It could have been pevented by e-Bay actively preventing retaliatory negatives.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
CapeStampMan
Members Picture


Mike

19 Apr 2013
02:15:15pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

"sellers began to refuse to give positive feedback to a prompt payer upon receiving the payment until they received positive feedback about the quality of the items that were sold."

That is exactly the reason I don't leave feedback for a seller until they leave it for me. I am very obstinate about this and should have much higher feedback rating than I do, but a lot of the sellers have an automatic feedback system, which only leaves feedback after the buyer has, which should under no circumstances be allowed to continue. To my way of thinking, when someone buys and then pays for an item, is when feedback should be left, because as far as the buyer is concerned, he/she has concluded their end of the deal and have no more responsibility to the seller at that point. If a seller is concerned about receiving positive feedback then they should respond promptly to the payment and send out the item, which should be just as the ad listed it. A very simple process which is abused and no one does anything about it. Also, eBay now will not let sellers leave negative feedback at all, which is also a two handled sword. Why would a seller want to leave negative feedback in the first place, if the buyer paid for the item promptly and the seller accepted the payment, then leave positive feedback. If the buyer does not receive payment in a timely manner, they should contact eBay and start a claim action against the buyer, then they can choose to leave appropriate feedback.

As a seller I leave "positive" feedback as soon as the payment is received and just hope that the buyer is kind enough to leave feedback for me.

Mike

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Zipper
Members Picture


Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.

19 Apr 2013
03:16:01pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

If I were a seller, I'd give a buyer 60 days to respond to an invoice. Most of us are old goats and can wind up in the hospital at any time. A sudden heart attack can lead to emergency bypass surgery then 30 days in a rehab facility. A stroke could paralyze someone leaving them unable to respond. To my way of thinking, if the worst thing that happened to me is being unpaid for merchandise I still own, it's been a good day.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

20 Apr 2013
10:43:17am
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I can see that this subject hit a lot of nerves! At any rate, it has evoked a lot of discussion regarding the bad behavior of some people and how other sites handle it. As for myself, I will just hope for the best when it comes to this. If someone stiffs me on a bunch of lots again...ie..they buy a number of lots but don't pay for them and don't reply to emails and so forth, I'll just close the invoice and move on from there. It seems pointless to me to have to refer them to someone else along with emails, invoices, and everything else that is requested ...having to make that kind of time commitment...just to have someone else make the determination whether or not there is sone excuse or another as to why they "might" not have responded. David, I appreciate the offer and if you like, I'll be happy to talk to you privately about these instances..heaven knows...I don't want to provoke anyone into a lawsuit and end up getting sued by the person who started this in the first place. One thing I am confused about...The Fair Credit and Reporting Act...I wasn't aware that it had any application here since none of the information about any of my sales are reported to any Credit Reporting Agency. I could be wrong though..it wouldn't be the first time.

Dave

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollectiblesmuseum.org
michael78651
Members Picture


Moderator, MT Member

20 Apr 2013
12:42:10pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Dave, if you are trying to collect a debt, then the law applies to you. It has nothing to do whether you report to a credit bureau or not. If you publicly post information regarding a non-payer, then you have given out information that others may not be entitled to, and it may not be appropriate. It can be done, but you have to follow very specific steps before you can do so.

If you wind up with a buyer who doesn't pay, and you haven't sent the items on "credit" pending payment, then outside of the aggravation and potential lost cash sale to someone else, you're really not out anything financially. However, that doesn't excuse the person for not upholding their end of the sale. They sure would hold you to the fire if they paid and you didn't send the items. I agree that the law is on the side of the buyer, but blame the collection agencies for that with their history of harassment, scare tactics, threats, etc.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
amsd
Members Picture


Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

20 Apr 2013
12:53:08pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Dave, all interactions among buyer and seller and me ought to be confidential and shouldn't be shared here by any members.

I understand the frustration about pulling all the stuff together to get that to the auctioneer; the auctioneer has the same frustration routing through all that stuff trying to determine if an action is warranted, making contact, waiting for response, etc. Frankly, I'd prefer that all the buyers and sellers just paid attention to what they put up and what they bid on. But they don't, which is why email errors and other neutral failures cause such headaches. No harm was intended, but folks just aren't paying attention and following through on what really are contracts: promises to buy and ship.

As to all the legalese, we are actually the occasional beneficiary of such laws, as PayPal has made good on fraudulent transactions, protecting the rights of buyers bidding on some scam artists several years ago. As to suits, we've never had any here, but we live in litigious days in litigious lands. If we really wanted to fully protect ourselves, we'd insist on insurance on each lot sold, place the onus on the Post Office to deliver and record said deliveries, but adding terribly to our own cost and time outlays.

So, unless there's something to add, how about we wind up this thread with the following reminder:

If you list an item or bid on item, pay attention to the closing date and make sure you contact the buyer or the seller upon that close, make sure you've paid your debts and shipped your sales in a timely fashion. Don't wait for the other guy. And honor the terms of the contract that is each auction transaction.

David the auctioneer

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

20 Apr 2013
02:18:37pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Michael,

I would agree with you if I had made any information regarding the individual public..which I haven't..and won't. Tim...sounds good to me.

Dave

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollectiblesmuseum.org
sponthetrona2
Members Picture


Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often

21 Apr 2013
12:18:28pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

As Stamporama secretary I support our Auction Administrator. If he boots a deadbeat member for auction infractions I will follow through and keep a vigilant eye out for anyone trying to re-apply perhaps under a different name. I can double check addresses and IP addresses, phone numbers, etc.......they will not be re-instated.

Perry

Like
Login to Like
this post
amsd
Members Picture


Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

21 Apr 2013
01:49:11pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I followed up on two complaints this past week from long-standing members trying to get payment from other long-standing members. Turns out business got in the way of one, who has already sent payment; and illness brought another member down, but that member's grandson is sending a money order in the already addressed envelope that was sitting on the member's desk. For the sellers, happy resolutions all around; for one buyer, let's send our prayers that health returns.

David the auctioneer


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
DRYER
Members Picture


The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

21 Apr 2013
03:33:49pm
re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Thank you for the update Mr. Auctioneer, reinforces my belief in humankind.

John Derry

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.com
        

 

Author/Postings
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

18 Apr 2013
10:37:05am

I bring this up because on 2 occasions, I've had the misfortune of having had members buy lots..in one case...quite a few lots...and then disappear off the face of the earth (metaphoricaly speaking)...ignore emails and reinvoices. In one case, this member overbid other members in his bidding. The result if that about all I can do is close the invoice since it is being ignored...and relist the lots..or not. I know that things happen and that there is always going to be that once in a barrel member that we all dread...but..my only real concern is that this person will reappear in the future and bid on more of my stamps and then here we go again. A blacklist function would allow a seller to stop that person from victimizing them yet again. I know it goes against the concept of us all being friends here...but in that once in a while case...I really think it is needed.

Dave

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollect ...
Members Picture
saleem

18 Apr 2013
01:04:28pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

This type of behavior calls for banning from Stamporama and not just being blacklisted by a seller. Should be done soon to save others from suffering the same fate. We are a friendly site but such 'pranks' are to be dealt with strongly.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

18 Apr 2013
02:16:20pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Hi Saleem,

I agree with you completely. Everyone should be made aware of the bad behavior so that they don't also fall victim to someone like that. The only advantage that blacklisting has over banning is that it can be done unilaterally by a seller without involving anyone else. I mean it is possible that someone who does that to me might get on very well with someone else. The other thing is that if I should wish to report the bad member to the Auctioneer...will I then be pulled into a time consuming procedure having to provide written proof and all that. It seems to me that it would greatly streamline the process of reporting if the victim could simply give permission to the Auctioneer to examine the bids, invoice sent and messages sent online instead of burdening the victim with having to provide all of this from the same website that the Auctioneer already has access to. Is that a possibility do you think?

Dave

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollect ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
18 Apr 2013
02:36:10pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Dave,

first, I want NO blacklists. Folks are either welcome here to bid or not. If they don't pay their bills or deliver the stamps won, they can't stay in the auction. As auctioneer, I have the authority to boot anyone not holding up their half of the bargain. They can stay in SOR, but the VC may request that they be banned. But if they can't abide by the auction rules, they can't participate here. As Saleem said, I don't want problem people visiting bad behavior on others. It gets fixed or they get tossed.

As to access, I don't have it. Don't really want it. I just need the aggrieved party to supply me with information, and I'll try to make things work. If I can't, then i'll boot.

Is there a specific instance that remains unresolved, Dave?

David the SOR auctioneer

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
18 Apr 2013
02:41:08pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

The auctioneer here investigates complaints from members regarding non-payment and non-shipment and takes action as deemed appropriate, including expelling the member from SOR. The auction rules are very clear about the action that can be taken by the auctioneer.

You have to be extremely careful about publicly posting names and other information regarding debtors. You may not like it, but federal and state fair debt collection laws are very specific on the actions that must be taken to collect debts and the actions that creditors can do. Failure to comply with those laws can mean a law suit and hefty fines against the creditor. If you are a seller here, you are a creditor. Doesn't matter that SOR is a club or not.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
18 Apr 2013
03:19:33pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I support our Chief Auctioneer on this issue; blacklists evoke McCarthyism and John Le Carrée novels and hard knocks on the door at 3 o'clock in the morning.

It seems a knee-jerk reaction for Americans to get lawyered up and immerse themselves in litigation on issues we aliens might regard as the minutiae of life; but, club and auction auction rules are intended to protect all members and should be enforced when contravened. Let us not be prisoners of our fears.

Some other thoughts:

• maybe the (delinquent) buyer died, or changed his internet provider; or,

• even worse, maybe the buyer is also selling on Stamporma's auction board.

John Derry

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.c ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
18 Apr 2013
03:40:31pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

i want to echo John's comment about the potential for failure beyond bad behavior. most often, problems are email accounts gone south, unremarked vacations or illnesses, and the occasional bout of forgetfulness.


in most cases things are resolved and life goes one.

only rarely do I boot people, and I hope it remains ever so

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
18 Apr 2013
06:06:08pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I agree completely with David's position. I urge one and all to submit complaints to the auctioneer for resolution; do not take action yourself unless you first consult an attorney!

Michael is dead on with his warning re the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) - you think it is tough being in a lawsuit, try defending yourself in State A, while you live in State B 1000 miles away. Attorney fees for getting the site of the suit changed (even if you are successful) will bankrupt you. Then there is the fact that if you lose (and the cards are stacked against the creditor), you pay the other guy's attorney's fees as well as your own!. Doesn't seem fair, but it is what it is. (been there, done that - fortunately as the attorney)

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
Members Picture
snowy12

18 Apr 2013
08:53:04pm

Auctions

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Hi all
Maybe not a blacklist,but the option to block a seller who for some reason IE: does not accept paypal as a payment method ,for whatever reason,as that is the only way I can pay,from here in Australia.It seems point less to scroll through these sellers lots when you have not way to pay for them.
I know we can exclude only one seller from our options.I have tried to pick more than one seller but it didn't work.
It would be great if we had the ability to exclude more than one seller.As several of our members will not accept paypal.
So I will never be able to purchase any items from them,even if it was something I really needed!!!

Brian

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
CapeStampMan

Mike
18 Apr 2013
10:24:57pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Personally, just the mention of Blacklisting gives me "goosebumps". I don't think there has ever been a need to use that severe form of action yet. I think that most of the problems that have arisen, and when David is alerted to the problem, has been resolved very quickly and decisively. First of all, if you have a problem with a buyer, or seller, you should contact that person and try to resolve the issue, without letting it fester and become something more than it is. If that buyer or seller does not respond to your satisfaction, then it would be time to contact David about the issue, informing him of all of the details at which time he will try to resolve the problem. If and when he can't resolve the problem the offending person will more than likely not be allowed to participate in the SOR auctions any longer, if not deleted from the membership roles completely. In the 3 or 4 years that I have been around SOR I only know of one person that was an out and out thief and was sent packing quite promptly. There were also a couple of other issues that were, if memory serves me correctly, very slow payers that were also dealt with quite promptly and severely. Like I tell my wife when she complains about a product she has purchased from the store: "Take it back and tell them what the issue is, because if no one lets them know about a problem, they just assume everything is all right and who fixes a problem that no one knows about?"

Along the same lines, I don't feel that a "feedback" forum is needed here on SOR, similar to what other auction sites use. I see sellers that have rotten feedback that still continue in business, without any type of punishment it seems. It would appear that the auction venue is more interested in letting people sell, thereby producing more income for their huge pockets, than worrying about trivial matters, like customer satisfaction.

SOR is like a city and when cities get larger there are naturally more problems, so we just have to know the problem to be able to fix them. It may not be absolutely perfect, but it is sure way ahead of anything else out there and I'm very glad to be able to say I am a participating member of SOR and hope to remain so for many years to come.

Mike

Like
Login to Like
this post

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
19 Apr 2013
01:20:54am

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I think there is a defacto feedback system on SOR as pertains to sellers. If you want to know if a seller is a good one, just look at the number of sales they have had. That doesn't mean there may not be a problem develop now and then. Everyone is human. However, if a seller has a large number of sales, overall people must be satisfied with that seller's service.

Not all auction web sites just let negative feedback get filed in the back corner and allow buyers or sellers to continue at will. BidStart, for one, reviews every negative left. If a buyer or seller receives too many negatives, that person's account is deleted. Also, BidStart does not allow retaliatory negative feedback (for example - buyer leaves a negative because items were not as described; seller leaves negative to buyer in response) and deletes such with a warning given to the leaver of such feedback. At least at that web site, negative feedback has always been taken seriously.

As for SOR, I agree with Mike. I don't think a feedback system is appropriate for SOR at this time. The day may come when it is, but that is not now.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Apr 2013
10:58:57am

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

" .... Also, BidStart does not allow retaliatory negative feedback (for example - buyer leaves a negative because items were not as described; seller leaves negative to buyer in response) and deletes such with a warning given to the leaver of such feedback. At least at that web site, negative feedback has always been taken seriously. ...."

That kind of behavior is what perverted the E-Bay feedback system as sellers began to refuse to give positive feedback to a prompt payer upon receiving the payment until they received positive feedback about the quality of he items that were sold.

Once that started I began to ignore the often promoted "100% positive feedback" since a positive comment could be obtained through what amounted to extortion and thus 100% meant nothing.

It could have been pevented by e-Bay actively preventing retaliatory negatives.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
CapeStampMan

Mike
19 Apr 2013
02:15:15pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

"sellers began to refuse to give positive feedback to a prompt payer upon receiving the payment until they received positive feedback about the quality of the items that were sold."

That is exactly the reason I don't leave feedback for a seller until they leave it for me. I am very obstinate about this and should have much higher feedback rating than I do, but a lot of the sellers have an automatic feedback system, which only leaves feedback after the buyer has, which should under no circumstances be allowed to continue. To my way of thinking, when someone buys and then pays for an item, is when feedback should be left, because as far as the buyer is concerned, he/she has concluded their end of the deal and have no more responsibility to the seller at that point. If a seller is concerned about receiving positive feedback then they should respond promptly to the payment and send out the item, which should be just as the ad listed it. A very simple process which is abused and no one does anything about it. Also, eBay now will not let sellers leave negative feedback at all, which is also a two handled sword. Why would a seller want to leave negative feedback in the first place, if the buyer paid for the item promptly and the seller accepted the payment, then leave positive feedback. If the buyer does not receive payment in a timely manner, they should contact eBay and start a claim action against the buyer, then they can choose to leave appropriate feedback.

As a seller I leave "positive" feedback as soon as the payment is received and just hope that the buyer is kind enough to leave feedback for me.

Mike

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."

Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
19 Apr 2013
03:16:01pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

If I were a seller, I'd give a buyer 60 days to respond to an invoice. Most of us are old goats and can wind up in the hospital at any time. A sudden heart attack can lead to emergency bypass surgery then 30 days in a rehab facility. A stroke could paralyze someone leaving them unable to respond. To my way of thinking, if the worst thing that happened to me is being unpaid for merchandise I still own, it's been a good day.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

20 Apr 2013
10:43:17am

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I can see that this subject hit a lot of nerves! At any rate, it has evoked a lot of discussion regarding the bad behavior of some people and how other sites handle it. As for myself, I will just hope for the best when it comes to this. If someone stiffs me on a bunch of lots again...ie..they buy a number of lots but don't pay for them and don't reply to emails and so forth, I'll just close the invoice and move on from there. It seems pointless to me to have to refer them to someone else along with emails, invoices, and everything else that is requested ...having to make that kind of time commitment...just to have someone else make the determination whether or not there is sone excuse or another as to why they "might" not have responded. David, I appreciate the offer and if you like, I'll be happy to talk to you privately about these instances..heaven knows...I don't want to provoke anyone into a lawsuit and end up getting sued by the person who started this in the first place. One thing I am confused about...The Fair Credit and Reporting Act...I wasn't aware that it had any application here since none of the information about any of my sales are reported to any Credit Reporting Agency. I could be wrong though..it wouldn't be the first time.

Dave

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollect ...
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
20 Apr 2013
12:42:10pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Dave, if you are trying to collect a debt, then the law applies to you. It has nothing to do whether you report to a credit bureau or not. If you publicly post information regarding a non-payer, then you have given out information that others may not be entitled to, and it may not be appropriate. It can be done, but you have to follow very specific steps before you can do so.

If you wind up with a buyer who doesn't pay, and you haven't sent the items on "credit" pending payment, then outside of the aggravation and potential lost cash sale to someone else, you're really not out anything financially. However, that doesn't excuse the person for not upholding their end of the sale. They sure would hold you to the fire if they paid and you didn't send the items. I agree that the law is on the side of the buyer, but blame the collection agencies for that with their history of harassment, scare tactics, threats, etc.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
20 Apr 2013
12:53:08pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Dave, all interactions among buyer and seller and me ought to be confidential and shouldn't be shared here by any members.

I understand the frustration about pulling all the stuff together to get that to the auctioneer; the auctioneer has the same frustration routing through all that stuff trying to determine if an action is warranted, making contact, waiting for response, etc. Frankly, I'd prefer that all the buyers and sellers just paid attention to what they put up and what they bid on. But they don't, which is why email errors and other neutral failures cause such headaches. No harm was intended, but folks just aren't paying attention and following through on what really are contracts: promises to buy and ship.

As to all the legalese, we are actually the occasional beneficiary of such laws, as PayPal has made good on fraudulent transactions, protecting the rights of buyers bidding on some scam artists several years ago. As to suits, we've never had any here, but we live in litigious days in litigious lands. If we really wanted to fully protect ourselves, we'd insist on insurance on each lot sold, place the onus on the Post Office to deliver and record said deliveries, but adding terribly to our own cost and time outlays.

So, unless there's something to add, how about we wind up this thread with the following reminder:

If you list an item or bid on item, pay attention to the closing date and make sure you contact the buyer or the seller upon that close, make sure you've paid your debts and shipped your sales in a timely fashion. Don't wait for the other guy. And honor the terms of the contract that is each auction transaction.

David the auctioneer

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
daveanddeb

http://www.americancollectiblesmuseum.org

20 Apr 2013
02:18:37pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Michael,

I would agree with you if I had made any information regarding the individual public..which I haven't..and won't. Tim...sounds good to me.

Dave

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: The Standard Catalog of Russian and Ukrainian Local Stamps (1992-1995)"

info@americancollect ...
Members Picture
sponthetrona2

Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
21 Apr 2013
12:18:28pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

As Stamporama secretary I support our Auction Administrator. If he boots a deadbeat member for auction infractions I will follow through and keep a vigilant eye out for anyone trying to re-apply perhaps under a different name. I can double check addresses and IP addresses, phone numbers, etc.......they will not be re-instated.

Perry

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
21 Apr 2013
01:49:11pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

I followed up on two complaints this past week from long-standing members trying to get payment from other long-standing members. Turns out business got in the way of one, who has already sent payment; and illness brought another member down, but that member's grandson is sending a money order in the already addressed envelope that was sitting on the member's desk. For the sellers, happy resolutions all around; for one buyer, let's send our prayers that health returns.

David the auctioneer


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
21 Apr 2013
03:33:49pm

re: What do you think about a personal Blacklist Function in the auction?

Thank you for the update Mr. Auctioneer, reinforces my belief in humankind.

John Derry

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.c ...
        

Contact Webmaster | Visitors Online | Unsubscribe Emails


User Agreement

Copyright © 2023 Stamporama.com