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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : What is a Cinderella ?

 

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londonbus1
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04 Jul 2013
03:19:18am

"I don't particularly object to Michael's definition, but it presents some problems. Christmas seals are listed in Scott (at least issues through 1979), but Easter seals are not. They serve similar functions, but one would be partially excluded from Michael's list while the other would be included.

In general, though, he and I are thinking along similar lines, he aiming for inclusion and I aiming for definition. Both approaches work....mostly."



The above quote is from member amsd in the thread 'Does someone read Hebrew' in the Middle East section. So as not to hijack Kiwi's great thread, I will start this new one here.

So back to the quote.
I have had a quick flick through my Scott catalogue and did not find Christmas seals, but that's not to say they are not there !!
But this aside, there are always exceptions to the rule and yes, I do collect both Christmas and Easter Seals from the USA as part of my Cinderella collection. If the Scott catalogue lists them for the USA, then why not for other countries ? They serve the same purpose everywhere in the main.
Easter seals too ?
I don't know off hand of another regular Postage stamp catalogue that lists Christmas seals. I would be interested to know if there are any.

So what is a Cinderella ?

More to come...let me know what your idea of these items are.

Londonbus1


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

04 Jul 2013
10:02:04am

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re: What is a Cinderella ?

Christmas seals are in Scott US specialized; WX series. They run through 1979 when Scott discontinues their listings, stating that the complexity of issues (test, spring, foil, etc.) makes it too onerous to continue. They do not list Easter seals. Go figure.

I do not hold that my definition is the best; it's just more descriptive.

David

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Kiwi
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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mahatma Gandhi.

04 Jul 2013
01:23:32pm
re: What is a Cinderella ?

Great to see you discuss the subject! I'm learning more about the topic. However, it seems not to be a clear defined subject? Hope I'm understandable as my mother tong is french so don't hesitate to correct my sometimes bad expressions in English!

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

04 Jul 2013
01:58:56pm

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re: What is a Cinderella ?

If I read Michael correctly, we are in agreement, we just use a different approach to explaining the same thing.

I am a great fan of much of the expanse of Cinderellas, although my collections are fairly narrow. One could spend a lifetime solely on the propaganda and charity labels issued during the Spanish Civil War. Within the narrow confines of seals, there hosts of catalogues attempting to list labels by city, state/province, country, organization and type , and that doesn't touch upon many of the pictured labels we've seen here since this topic was broached, all of which are of immense interest.

I am delighted that others are interested in the discussion. It's an immensely satisfying area.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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tomiseksj
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04 Jul 2013
03:13:18pm
re: What is a Cinderella ?

In the interest of full disclosure, Michael (londonbus1) and a few others on a different site are to blame for getting me hooked on Cinderellas.Thumbs Up

Below are two fairly straightforward definitions taken from the United States Stamp Society's A Glossary of Terms for the Collector of United States Stamps.

"Cinderella - a nickname frequently used for fantasy labels with no postal validity.

Label - a stamp-like adhesive of no postal value, often used for promotional purposes. Christmas Seals are examples of labels. "Label" may also be used to describe the stamp-like units that bear messages that sometimes appear in stamp booklets."



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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

04 Jul 2013
09:13:04pm

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re: What is a Cinderella ?

Michael, yes, you can order Christmas seals directly from ALA; X number of sheets for Y number of dollars. Sounds like buying to me. They also send sheets and ask for donations. Their business model in the past was based on donations, usually with a set fee proposed per seal or sheet.

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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cocollectibles

05 Jul 2013
07:07:15am
re: What is a Cinderella ?

I have a small group of Cinderellas that I collected just for "the look"; I find many very beautiful. Here are a couple of examples of the type that catch my interest. Both are from stamp exhibitions.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Close up of a stamp on the sheet.

Image Not Found

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Kiwi
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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mahatma Gandhi.

20 Jul 2013
05:32:42pm
re: What is a Cinderella ?

Great! I've got a very good idea of what cinderellas are now.I've thus been collecting plenty of them without knowing it!

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Rhinelander
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21 Jul 2013
05:54:25pm
re: What is a Cinderella ?

I never gave this much thought, since I am not collecting any of these "thingies." Taking it from the top:

A postage stamp is the receipt for the (pre-)payment of postal services, which includes postal stationary and the like.

Stamps other than postage stamps, revenue etc. stamps, represent the receipt for various government taxes and fees other than the payment of postal services (stock transfer, hunting permits etc. etc.).

Cinderella -- from my past understanding -- is not the umbrella term for anything-not-a-postage-stamp, but specifically used for items that were designed to appear like postage stamps. So, in my mind, the classic example for Cinderellas are the "stamps" for Maluku Selatan, various "exile governments," and other fairy tale stamps (hence the name).

Then, there is the separate category of labels and seals. No difference in meaning between the two. This category captures any items not meant to provide a receipt for government fees, taxes, or postal service, and not created to deceive as a postage stamp. "Seal" is perhaps the more traditional term because the original purpose of the label (gummed sticker) was to seal the letter. Labels and seals can have all kinds of functions, from mere decoration to individualization to promotion of whatever cause.

These were my categories until you guys now have turned anything upside down Happy .

Not that it really mattered. -- I would assume that the specialized societies devoted to seal etc. collecting have attempted to develop more concise definitions.

Arno

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cocollectibles

21 Jul 2013
08:35:22pm
re: What is a Cinderella ?

Arno, I felt the same way until I acquired a box lot of "Cinderellas," including QV issues I wanted. Turns out, most of what was in that lot were issues commemorating stamp shows (as the ones I illustrated above). Are those Cinderellas? Labels? Souvenirs? I resolved it by using the Cinderella term as a catch-all for any non-postage or non-revenue issues. Just my take on it.

Cheers,
Peter

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"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
londonbus1

04 Jul 2013
03:19:18am

"I don't particularly object to Michael's definition, but it presents some problems. Christmas seals are listed in Scott (at least issues through 1979), but Easter seals are not. They serve similar functions, but one would be partially excluded from Michael's list while the other would be included.

In general, though, he and I are thinking along similar lines, he aiming for inclusion and I aiming for definition. Both approaches work....mostly."



The above quote is from member amsd in the thread 'Does someone read Hebrew' in the Middle East section. So as not to hijack Kiwi's great thread, I will start this new one here.

So back to the quote.
I have had a quick flick through my Scott catalogue and did not find Christmas seals, but that's not to say they are not there !!
But this aside, there are always exceptions to the rule and yes, I do collect both Christmas and Easter Seals from the USA as part of my Cinderella collection. If the Scott catalogue lists them for the USA, then why not for other countries ? They serve the same purpose everywhere in the main.
Easter seals too ?
I don't know off hand of another regular Postage stamp catalogue that lists Christmas seals. I would be interested to know if there are any.

So what is a Cinderella ?

More to come...let me know what your idea of these items are.

Londonbus1


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1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
04 Jul 2013
10:02:04am

Auctions

re: What is a Cinderella ?

Christmas seals are in Scott US specialized; WX series. They run through 1979 when Scott discontinues their listings, stating that the complexity of issues (test, spring, foil, etc.) makes it too onerous to continue. They do not list Easter seals. Go figure.

I do not hold that my definition is the best; it's just more descriptive.

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mahatma Gandhi.
04 Jul 2013
01:23:32pm

re: What is a Cinderella ?

Great to see you discuss the subject! I'm learning more about the topic. However, it seems not to be a clear defined subject? Hope I'm understandable as my mother tong is french so don't hesitate to correct my sometimes bad expressions in English!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
04 Jul 2013
01:58:56pm

Auctions

re: What is a Cinderella ?

If I read Michael correctly, we are in agreement, we just use a different approach to explaining the same thing.

I am a great fan of much of the expanse of Cinderellas, although my collections are fairly narrow. One could spend a lifetime solely on the propaganda and charity labels issued during the Spanish Civil War. Within the narrow confines of seals, there hosts of catalogues attempting to list labels by city, state/province, country, organization and type , and that doesn't touch upon many of the pictured labels we've seen here since this topic was broached, all of which are of immense interest.

I am delighted that others are interested in the discussion. It's an immensely satisfying area.

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
tomiseksj

04 Jul 2013
03:13:18pm

re: What is a Cinderella ?

In the interest of full disclosure, Michael (londonbus1) and a few others on a different site are to blame for getting me hooked on Cinderellas.Thumbs Up

Below are two fairly straightforward definitions taken from the United States Stamp Society's A Glossary of Terms for the Collector of United States Stamps.

"Cinderella - a nickname frequently used for fantasy labels with no postal validity.

Label - a stamp-like adhesive of no postal value, often used for promotional purposes. Christmas Seals are examples of labels. "Label" may also be used to describe the stamp-like units that bear messages that sometimes appear in stamp booklets."



Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS Member #130102; SRS Member #1570"

thestampforum.boards ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
04 Jul 2013
09:13:04pm

Auctions

re: What is a Cinderella ?

Michael, yes, you can order Christmas seals directly from ALA; X number of sheets for Y number of dollars. Sounds like buying to me. They also send sheets and ask for donations. Their business model in the past was based on donations, usually with a set fee proposed per seal or sheet.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
cocollectibles

05 Jul 2013
07:07:15am

re: What is a Cinderella ?

I have a small group of Cinderellas that I collected just for "the look"; I find many very beautiful. Here are a couple of examples of the type that catch my interest. Both are from stamp exhibitions.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Close up of a stamp on the sheet.

Image Not Found

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mahatma Gandhi.
20 Jul 2013
05:32:42pm

re: What is a Cinderella ?

Great! I've got a very good idea of what cinderellas are now.I've thus been collecting plenty of them without knowing it!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
21 Jul 2013
05:54:25pm

re: What is a Cinderella ?

I never gave this much thought, since I am not collecting any of these "thingies." Taking it from the top:

A postage stamp is the receipt for the (pre-)payment of postal services, which includes postal stationary and the like.

Stamps other than postage stamps, revenue etc. stamps, represent the receipt for various government taxes and fees other than the payment of postal services (stock transfer, hunting permits etc. etc.).

Cinderella -- from my past understanding -- is not the umbrella term for anything-not-a-postage-stamp, but specifically used for items that were designed to appear like postage stamps. So, in my mind, the classic example for Cinderellas are the "stamps" for Maluku Selatan, various "exile governments," and other fairy tale stamps (hence the name).

Then, there is the separate category of labels and seals. No difference in meaning between the two. This category captures any items not meant to provide a receipt for government fees, taxes, or postal service, and not created to deceive as a postage stamp. "Seal" is perhaps the more traditional term because the original purpose of the label (gummed sticker) was to seal the letter. Labels and seals can have all kinds of functions, from mere decoration to individualization to promotion of whatever cause.

These were my categories until you guys now have turned anything upside down Happy .

Not that it really mattered. -- I would assume that the specialized societies devoted to seal etc. collecting have attempted to develop more concise definitions.

Arno

Like
Login to Like
this post
cocollectibles

21 Jul 2013
08:35:22pm

re: What is a Cinderella ?

Arno, I felt the same way until I acquired a box lot of "Cinderellas," including QV issues I wanted. Turns out, most of what was in that lot were issues commemorating stamp shows (as the ones I illustrated above). Are those Cinderellas? Labels? Souvenirs? I resolved it by using the Cinderella term as a catch-all for any non-postage or non-revenue issues. Just my take on it.

Cheers,
Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post

"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
        

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