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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Used Stamps with First Day cancels

 

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d1stamper
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06 Aug 2013
01:03:27pm

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I see a number of used stamps listed, but when I look at them they have a First Day of Issue cancel.

Do you consider these to be postally used stamps or CTO (cancel to order)?

Doug
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smauggie
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06 Aug 2013
03:04:26pm
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

That is a great question.

To me they would be akin to stamps that are cancelled to order (CTO). If there is a minisheet, souvenir sheet or large block of stamps that are cancelled I might buy that item. For example I have the US 1976 Bicentennial Minisheets with FDC cancels. Of course I didn't realize at the time that they were cancelled, but I am happy to add them to my collection.

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jahayward

06 Aug 2013
03:32:10pm
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

As a bullseye cancel collector they are definitely worth more than what a used or cto stamp would be worth to me. First day bullseyes used to be very popular.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

06 Aug 2013
04:26:46pm

Auctions
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

doug, i think the correct answer is probaly neither. They are not properly postally used (unless they went through the mails, but im assuming yours did not). And they are not CTO as they were intended to be sold as FD covers or, in the East bloc, FD cancels.

As a collecter who prefers postally used, i would rather have a SON cancel Than a FD cancel, but would prefer FD. To CTO. Better yet would have been to keep them on cover, assuming that is wherenthey began.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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lpayette
Members Picture


07 Aug 2013
01:07:30am
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundI have ended up with a big box of covers,about 90% of them looks like they have gone thru the mail like the ones belowImage Not Found

I do not have much luck selling covers, so I soak them off and sell as used
Lee

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lpayette
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07 Aug 2013
01:27:04am
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Image Not FoundHere are some more
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

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snowy12
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07 Aug 2013
03:48:38am

Auctions
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Hi all
I too like Lee have several boxes of FDC posted to Australia from many parts of the world .including the UN in New York Rhodesia,Pakistan .Mauritius and many other places some of them are even registered.New Zealand ,Cyprus GB,Canada(Rosecraft) USA and the list goes on .
Just because a stamp has a FD Cancel does not mean it has not seen postal duty.
Admitted being on the addressed cover gives it more validation though.
Image Not Found
Brian

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

11 Aug 2013
01:02:14pm
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

I wrote the following some time ago for one of the stamp sites and saved it for the day when it might apply to an ongoing discussion of the different kinds of cancellations that we find on covers.

CTO = Cancelled to Order. Stamps cancelled either during the printing process or immediately thereafter before being sold on the open market, usually to bulk packet dealers and aimed at newbies.

Handback = Favor Canceled = Cancelled at the post office and returned to the collector either to get a clear example of the cancellation or to create a nicely cancelled stamp for the collection. Because there is often a dearth of postally used recent stamps, dealers sometimes will take a sheet of stamps to their post office and have them cancelled completely so that they will have cancelled stamps for their customers.
Also, whole sheets or blocks of stamps may be cancelled to pay for a charge for postage due for already delivered mail and when that is done the payer often is sharp enough to use high value somewhat difficult to find current stamps.

Controlled mail-cancellation = Stamps used on an envelope or parcel and mailed to oneself or to someone who will return the cover or the torn corner to the sender. This is something that I do with X-mas and birthday presents to my fourteen grand children ( And counting) to generate postally used examples for my collections.
There are sheets of stamps very neatly cancelled "Harrisburg, PA" dated between 1940 and 1945. During the war gasoline was rationed. But drivers and vehicle owners had to register or re-register their licenses annually and, of course, pay a fee to the state for their tag or sticker. Many were leery of entrusting money to the regular mail without paying a registration and insurance fee. One very enterprising dealer, whose name escapes me at the moment, made the trip from his hometown to the DMV monthly and carried the license and renewal applications to Harrisburg. Before he arrived at the DMV he stopped at the Harrisburg post office, counted the number of envelopes he was carrying and paid the appropriate first class mail fee as is required by Federal law. Even if you pass a friend's house and leave a note in his mailbox, first class postage is required. Well the dealer would have the clerk issue and cancel the correct number of stamps. Obviously he selected stamps that were difficult to get at that time and took the postally cancelled stamps, still with gum intact home to use to fill customer's orders for the stamps.
These stamps are often found in old albums and since so many years have passed, their interesting history is missed. They would be classified as Postally Used, Favor Canceled
Handbacks.

Philatelic Mail = Usually attractive stamps used by collectors or dealers, often from the discount postage pile, on mail being sent to someone who is thought to appreciate the courtesy.
Occasionally one may come across a lot of SOTNs with a careful "Snow Camp, NC", or "Smithville, Ontario" or even "Station B, Winnipeg" cancellations. Many collectors know that the stamps were likely used by "Jay Smith's Scandinavian Stamp business" or "Vance Auctions" or even from an earlier era, "Kas Bileski" a renowned dealer and philatelic expert, all dealers who are very careful to see that mail to their customers bears attractive stamps that are neatly cancelled.
First Day of Issue stamps ("FDCs") can be postally used as some of the examples on display here show especially if they carry even the simplest message; "Here are some stamps you may like." Usually they will carry both an address and a return address, plus routing marks.
If they do not then they are, in my opinion, merely "Contrived Souvenirs", However they are often collected in large numbers by devoted collectors and disposed of by the file drawer inch to packet dealers for a pittance. Once the stamps are cut from an envelope and soaked from paper it can be hard to distinguish them from genuine postally used.
A sub category of FDCs or perhaps CTOs are "Remainders," Stamps that were issued for a specific purpose for a limited time. The remaining inventory is cancelled with the expiration date and sold for pennies, probably by the pound, to dealers. An example of this are Netherlands TB stamps cancelled January 31st, 1907, with a neat Amsterdam circular cancellation.
A repeated annoyance with a dealer on Long Island some years ago was several sets of these that he had in his binder priced at $25.00tom $30.00. When I pointed out that remainders of this issue generally sold for 20¢ to 30¢ as minimal value stamps he'd apologies and take them out of the sales binders. A few weeks later I'd find them back there being sold at the premium price. When that happened the third time, instead iof discretely pointing out the error, I spoke at a full "Bosun's Mate" baritone, clear enough to be heard out in the parking lot and minced no words as to what I though of them being foisted on unsuspecting collectors. Needless to say I was "persona non grata" at his store or booth from then on.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

11 Aug 2013
09:52:16pm
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Charlie:

I don't think I would show you my collection. You know too much about philately
and I suspect all of my enjoyment would evaporate were you to comment on my
stamps (but you would be polite and not critical).

The stamp-selling strategies against which you rail are part and parcel of the
business of stamps and the hobby of stamps. I have purchased oleomargarine
advertised as indistinguishable from butter, "genuine" mother of pearl,
books with their covers removed, bogus stamps - it's all a part of the world I live in.

I have "stuff" in my collection for no other reason than I want it there. I really enjoy
my stamps, their monetary value is transitory and only exists fleetingly for me at the
time of purchase. Today, I gave away a small (catalogue) fortune in German stamps
to a like-minded collector. His enjoyment was exceeded by mine.

We all collect stamps for selfish reasons.

Very much enjoy your insights and am encouraged to see you back on Stamporama
in fighting form.

John Derry

Don't purposely collect FDCs, usually only to soak off the stamps; but, some are in
my albums together with news clippings and other flotsam and jetsam
which would bring tears to an old tar's eyes.

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"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.com
amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

12 Aug 2013
05:00:13am

Auctions
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Charlie, switching gears just a tad to welcome you back and hope you're fully recovered. David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
d1stamper
Members Picture


13 Aug 2013
03:50:49pm

Auctions
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Thank you for all the input.


Some stamps may only be obtainable with FD cancels.

Maybe I will broaden my scope of what used stamps I will put in my collection.

Doug

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parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

05 Nov 2013
12:13:11pm
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

A few years ago I purchased an ounce of kiloware from Aland on ebay for about $30. I was very disappointed when I realized that most of the stamps had First Day Cancels.

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Les
Members Picture


07 Nov 2013
12:07:26pm
re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

When I was about 11 or 12, I used to prepare and mail out envelopes to cities for FDC cancellations. Then I learned that most dealers only wanted cachets. Now the USPS sells FDC's in batches that never saw the inside of a real Post Office. Another example of the over commercialization of our hobby. Here is a an example which I found in one of the collections that I bought a Scott 750 First Day cancel. Image Not Found

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
d1stamper

06 Aug 2013
01:03:27pm

Auctions

I see a number of used stamps listed, but when I look at them they have a First Day of Issue cancel.

Do you consider these to be postally used stamps or CTO (cancel to order)?

Doug

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
smauggie

06 Aug 2013
03:04:26pm

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

That is a great question.

To me they would be akin to stamps that are cancelled to order (CTO). If there is a minisheet, souvenir sheet or large block of stamps that are cancelled I might buy that item. For example I have the US 1976 Bicentennial Minisheets with FDC cancels. Of course I didn't realize at the time that they were cancelled, but I am happy to add them to my collection.

Like
Login to Like
this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...
jahayward

06 Aug 2013
03:32:10pm

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

As a bullseye cancel collector they are definitely worth more than what a used or cto stamp would be worth to me. First day bullseyes used to be very popular.

Like
Login to Like
this post

stamps.jeffhayward.c ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Aug 2013
04:26:46pm

Auctions

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

doug, i think the correct answer is probaly neither. They are not properly postally used (unless they went through the mails, but im assuming yours did not). And they are not CTO as they were intended to be sold as FD covers or, in the East bloc, FD cancels.

As a collecter who prefers postally used, i would rather have a SON cancel Than a FD cancel, but would prefer FD. To CTO. Better yet would have been to keep them on cover, assuming that is wherenthey began.

David

Like
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this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
lpayette

07 Aug 2013
01:07:30am

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundI have ended up with a big box of covers,about 90% of them looks like they have gone thru the mail like the ones belowImage Not Found

I do not have much luck selling covers, so I soak them off and sell as used
Lee

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
lpayette

07 Aug 2013
01:27:04am

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Image Not FoundHere are some more
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

Like
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this post
Members Picture
snowy12

07 Aug 2013
03:48:38am

Auctions

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Hi all
I too like Lee have several boxes of FDC posted to Australia from many parts of the world .including the UN in New York Rhodesia,Pakistan .Mauritius and many other places some of them are even registered.New Zealand ,Cyprus GB,Canada(Rosecraft) USA and the list goes on .
Just because a stamp has a FD Cancel does not mean it has not seen postal duty.
Admitted being on the addressed cover gives it more validation though.
Image Not Found
Brian

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 Aug 2013
01:02:14pm

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

I wrote the following some time ago for one of the stamp sites and saved it for the day when it might apply to an ongoing discussion of the different kinds of cancellations that we find on covers.

CTO = Cancelled to Order. Stamps cancelled either during the printing process or immediately thereafter before being sold on the open market, usually to bulk packet dealers and aimed at newbies.

Handback = Favor Canceled = Cancelled at the post office and returned to the collector either to get a clear example of the cancellation or to create a nicely cancelled stamp for the collection. Because there is often a dearth of postally used recent stamps, dealers sometimes will take a sheet of stamps to their post office and have them cancelled completely so that they will have cancelled stamps for their customers.
Also, whole sheets or blocks of stamps may be cancelled to pay for a charge for postage due for already delivered mail and when that is done the payer often is sharp enough to use high value somewhat difficult to find current stamps.

Controlled mail-cancellation = Stamps used on an envelope or parcel and mailed to oneself or to someone who will return the cover or the torn corner to the sender. This is something that I do with X-mas and birthday presents to my fourteen grand children ( And counting) to generate postally used examples for my collections.
There are sheets of stamps very neatly cancelled "Harrisburg, PA" dated between 1940 and 1945. During the war gasoline was rationed. But drivers and vehicle owners had to register or re-register their licenses annually and, of course, pay a fee to the state for their tag or sticker. Many were leery of entrusting money to the regular mail without paying a registration and insurance fee. One very enterprising dealer, whose name escapes me at the moment, made the trip from his hometown to the DMV monthly and carried the license and renewal applications to Harrisburg. Before he arrived at the DMV he stopped at the Harrisburg post office, counted the number of envelopes he was carrying and paid the appropriate first class mail fee as is required by Federal law. Even if you pass a friend's house and leave a note in his mailbox, first class postage is required. Well the dealer would have the clerk issue and cancel the correct number of stamps. Obviously he selected stamps that were difficult to get at that time and took the postally cancelled stamps, still with gum intact home to use to fill customer's orders for the stamps.
These stamps are often found in old albums and since so many years have passed, their interesting history is missed. They would be classified as Postally Used, Favor Canceled
Handbacks.

Philatelic Mail = Usually attractive stamps used by collectors or dealers, often from the discount postage pile, on mail being sent to someone who is thought to appreciate the courtesy.
Occasionally one may come across a lot of SOTNs with a careful "Snow Camp, NC", or "Smithville, Ontario" or even "Station B, Winnipeg" cancellations. Many collectors know that the stamps were likely used by "Jay Smith's Scandinavian Stamp business" or "Vance Auctions" or even from an earlier era, "Kas Bileski" a renowned dealer and philatelic expert, all dealers who are very careful to see that mail to their customers bears attractive stamps that are neatly cancelled.
First Day of Issue stamps ("FDCs") can be postally used as some of the examples on display here show especially if they carry even the simplest message; "Here are some stamps you may like." Usually they will carry both an address and a return address, plus routing marks.
If they do not then they are, in my opinion, merely "Contrived Souvenirs", However they are often collected in large numbers by devoted collectors and disposed of by the file drawer inch to packet dealers for a pittance. Once the stamps are cut from an envelope and soaked from paper it can be hard to distinguish them from genuine postally used.
A sub category of FDCs or perhaps CTOs are "Remainders," Stamps that were issued for a specific purpose for a limited time. The remaining inventory is cancelled with the expiration date and sold for pennies, probably by the pound, to dealers. An example of this are Netherlands TB stamps cancelled January 31st, 1907, with a neat Amsterdam circular cancellation.
A repeated annoyance with a dealer on Long Island some years ago was several sets of these that he had in his binder priced at $25.00tom $30.00. When I pointed out that remainders of this issue generally sold for 20¢ to 30¢ as minimal value stamps he'd apologies and take them out of the sales binders. A few weeks later I'd find them back there being sold at the premium price. When that happened the third time, instead iof discretely pointing out the error, I spoke at a full "Bosun's Mate" baritone, clear enough to be heard out in the parking lot and minced no words as to what I though of them being foisted on unsuspecting collectors. Needless to say I was "persona non grata" at his store or booth from then on.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "

The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
11 Aug 2013
09:52:16pm

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Charlie:

I don't think I would show you my collection. You know too much about philately
and I suspect all of my enjoyment would evaporate were you to comment on my
stamps (but you would be polite and not critical).

The stamp-selling strategies against which you rail are part and parcel of the
business of stamps and the hobby of stamps. I have purchased oleomargarine
advertised as indistinguishable from butter, "genuine" mother of pearl,
books with their covers removed, bogus stamps - it's all a part of the world I live in.

I have "stuff" in my collection for no other reason than I want it there. I really enjoy
my stamps, their monetary value is transitory and only exists fleetingly for me at the
time of purchase. Today, I gave away a small (catalogue) fortune in German stamps
to a like-minded collector. His enjoyment was exceeded by mine.

We all collect stamps for selfish reasons.

Very much enjoy your insights and am encouraged to see you back on Stamporama
in fighting form.

John Derry

Don't purposely collect FDCs, usually only to soak off the stamps; but, some are in
my albums together with news clippings and other flotsam and jetsam
which would bring tears to an old tar's eyes.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.c ...
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
12 Aug 2013
05:00:13am

Auctions

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Charlie, switching gears just a tad to welcome you back and hope you're fully recovered. David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
d1stamper

13 Aug 2013
03:50:49pm

Auctions

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

Thank you for all the input.


Some stamps may only be obtainable with FD cancels.

Maybe I will broaden my scope of what used stamps I will put in my collection.

Doug

Like
Login to Like
this post

Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
05 Nov 2013
12:13:11pm

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

A few years ago I purchased an ounce of kiloware from Aland on ebay for about $30. I was very disappointed when I realized that most of the stamps had First Day Cancels.

Bob

Like
Login to Like
this post

"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
Les

07 Nov 2013
12:07:26pm

re: Used Stamps with First Day cancels

When I was about 11 or 12, I used to prepare and mail out envelopes to cities for FDC cancellations. Then I learned that most dealers only wanted cachets. Now the USPS sells FDC's in batches that never saw the inside of a real Post Office. Another example of the over commercialization of our hobby. Here is a an example which I found in one of the collections that I bought a Scott 750 First Day cancel. Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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