Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
) it was teaming with people, and you had to weave your way among the stands and collectors!It is a weekly affair!
Prices are definitely on the high side vs US prices.
Lots of professional dealers have shops under the arcades of the Plaza Mayor, on one of the sides and in an access alley, and they are obviously open on Sunday, but there were no bargains there. Good choices for all Spanish related stamps as one would expect!
I noticed a number of collectors selling their collections or more to the point individual stamps from stockbooks, and many buyers were, catalogs in hand, picking items.
Lot of common stuff too out there...for the beginner, but also some better items, but nothing cheap by US standards.
Still, stamp collecting is alive and well in Madrid, Spain.
rrr...
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Very interesting. Good to hear that stamp collecting is doing well in other parts of the world. Here in the U.S. we more commonly see the end of the stamp collecting world near. But then again, just think China ...
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Wonder what they do if it starts raining?
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01:32:13am
" ... Prices are definitely on the high side vs US prices. ..."
Stamps are always more expensive in the home country. The place to buy Spanish stamps might be in the Paris flea market, also an open air stamp bourse.
In Madrid I'd keep an eye out for collections from other countries, albums here popular Spanish and Portuguese stamps and colonials have been removed for individual sales, leaving whole sections that the dealer may be happy to dump. For almost any countries stamps, the further away the better. On the other hand the place for curious Spanish varieties seldom seen elsewhere is right there in Madrid, or Barcelona, or a couple of small stamp shops I found in Cadiz.
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I think the conclusion that the prices are high compared to US prices can be explained by the fact that Scott catalogue prices are often low when compared to those in Yvert, SG and Michel. Another important thing to keep in mind is the unfavourable exchange rate for the dollar against the Euro, making things more expensive for Americans. For us Europeans it becomes more interesting to buy in the USA just because of this.
I do not think they have to worry about rain that much. Madrid is located in an area that is very dry. Drought is a big problem in Spain.
Jan-Simon
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Ralph, great shots and story, thanks. Is that you in front of an intriguing Philately Store?
Peter
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09:37:45am
" .... Another important thing to keep in mind is the unfavourable exchange rate for the dollar against the Euro, ...."
Jan the price differential was that way fifty plus years ago, the greenback dollar was king almost anywhere I traveled. In several places I had to declare how much US currency I was bringing ashore and be able to account for their exchange through receipts from a bank or legal dealers.
In some countries where there was a restrictive rate a knowledgeable traveler could get a much better exchange rate privately for a crispy $50.00 or $100.00 in what, of course a somewhat illegal transaction. Of course that would be from undeclared US funds and had to be carefully managed while roaming about, (ie concealed).
The idea of the "Euro" was but a twinkle in some economist's eye.
Simply put Dutch stamps are more popular in Rotterdam that Chicago and French stamps far more saleable in Paris or Marseille than New York and that fact is almost always reflected in local catalogs. Of course experienced stamp dealers were well aware of these differences so it was important to watch what catalog was being used for negotiating prices.
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That is a fact, plus (as far as I know) the US stamp market still concentrates heavily on US stamps. The rest of the world is/was not desirable which can be seen in the prices. I have a feeling that this is slowly changing.
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Several comments
1. Yes that was me in the arcade. I was specifically looking for Cuban Colonial stamps from the Spanish era. Even in Spain, they are hard to find. A dealer (the sign behind me) who had some really good inventory was pricing them at typically 3-4 times the Scott Catalog Value. Tourist pricing? Sellers in the stands inside and outside had little to satisfy me...but they all said they had more at home, and for me to come next week!
2. The worse place (price wise) to buy any stamp is the country where it is issued. But it is also the best place for variety and availability.
3. Europe does not discount stamps as much as we do here in the US. We truly have a free market, and we can still find good bargains. This is what I love most about it...the garage sale aspect of the market place here...like finding a rare inverted o/p in a bin of 10c stamps (just happened to me). Not that I plan to sell it, or do anything other than donate it one day...but it is such a thrill!
4. There are some NEW rules if you wish to make money at stamps. Buy countries with a growing middle class with more time and money. Large populations or better very fast growing populations helps. China comes to mind...but let me add a few more suggestions. The emerging tigers BRICKS (Brasil, Russia etc..) come to mind. Oil money countries (Saudi Arabia..etc.. has anyone priced these as of late!) The former colonies of the big colonial powers, in countries that are now developed or developing, or that have experienced lots of changes...(Palestine/Israel, former Ottoman Empire, etc..) and stay away from all modern stamps as Post Offices worldwide have spoiled the hobby!
As a side line..beware of counterfeits..it is becoming a real serious problem.
I now stay away from virtually all o/p! (unless priced very low)
5. The Internet is the best place to travel worldwide for your collection, but beware of Internet traps. Do explore ebay sites outside the US such as ebay/germany (de), ebay/france etc... especially when looking for non US stamps. For a stamp by stamp approach to fill your missing spots, ebay sucks..so use other sites such as Delcampe, Bidstart or Poppe.
6. Rain in Madrid? As some have already said, it is dry usually in Madrid. Also most of the stands are under the arcades. Tables outside could easily find more room on the fourth side of the square's arcades or skip the few rainy days, but there is such a nice feel to standing or sitting in the winter sun, outside, and close to a coffee terrace, should you need a break. In summer, sun shading by big umbrellas would be natural.
There is a street stamp market in Paris on the week ends, near the Champs Elysees, that I am familiar with, but this one in Madrid seemed less professional (more surprises) and much more extensive. And Spain is in a very deep recession???
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You have given us a good topic, Ralph: differences between the U.S. and worldwide stamp markets. Obviously, it is difficult to know "the" U.S. stamp market. Yet to say "the" stamp markets of the rest of the world. Most noted differences will be a mix of facts and perceptions, but two observations stick out in my mind:
First, the already observed difference in catalog values. I believe two major reasons are (1) the absence of a VAT in the U.S., which makes dealers' retail prices, which form the basis of catalog values, across the board lower compared to Europe, and, most importantly, (2) the pronounced difference in grades at which stamps are priced.
Second, there are many more worldwide collectors in the U.S. compared to other parts of the world. Several U.S. album manufacturers supply worldwide stamp albums, but no such product exists from European sources. If you subscribe to the laws of demand and supply, this is a meaningful observation.
Arno
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My experiences indicate that stamps cost more at flea markets and at stamp shops.
As I am not in this hobby for the money (Do you hear me, Michael?) I don't look for
bargains to resell.
I find stamps in Europe, particularly western Europe, are more expensive
than in Canada or the USA; best value for my stamp dollar is the USA by far. Most, repeat most,
of my satisfying stamp purchases have been made from the Stamporama auction board.
Swapping/trading/donating stamps is more enjoyable for me than buying them.
I love visiting stamp shops and flea markets to browse, talk to sellers, and to succumb to
spontaneous impulses to buy.
Thank you, "rraphy" for your interesting submission and photographs.
John Derry
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Approvals
In Madrid... The Sunday Stamp and Coin market in Plaza Mayor is phenomenal, with stands on all three of the four side arcades, as well as lots of collectors on tables on the outside of the covered area, (photo) in the open square edges (photo). The huge square is about 400+x300+ ft or over 2 acres (photo on another day)...and even early in the day (Madrid operates on Spanish time... ) it was teaming with people, and you had to weave your way among the stands and collectors!
It is a weekly affair!
Prices are definitely on the high side vs US prices.
Lots of professional dealers have shops under the arcades of the Plaza Mayor, on one of the sides and in an access alley, and they are obviously open on Sunday, but there were no bargains there. Good choices for all Spanish related stamps as one would expect!
I noticed a number of collectors selling their collections or more to the point individual stamps from stockbooks, and many buyers were, catalogs in hand, picking items.
Lot of common stuff too out there...for the beginner, but also some better items, but nothing cheap by US standards.
Still, stamp collecting is alive and well in Madrid, Spain.
rrr...
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re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
Very interesting. Good to hear that stamp collecting is doing well in other parts of the world. Here in the U.S. we more commonly see the end of the stamp collecting world near. But then again, just think China ...
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re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
Wonder what they do if it starts raining?
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Nov 2013
01:32:13am
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
" ... Prices are definitely on the high side vs US prices. ..."
Stamps are always more expensive in the home country. The place to buy Spanish stamps might be in the Paris flea market, also an open air stamp bourse.
In Madrid I'd keep an eye out for collections from other countries, albums here popular Spanish and Portuguese stamps and colonials have been removed for individual sales, leaving whole sections that the dealer may be happy to dump. For almost any countries stamps, the further away the better. On the other hand the place for curious Spanish varieties seldom seen elsewhere is right there in Madrid, or Barcelona, or a couple of small stamp shops I found in Cadiz.
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this post
Approvals
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
I think the conclusion that the prices are high compared to US prices can be explained by the fact that Scott catalogue prices are often low when compared to those in Yvert, SG and Michel. Another important thing to keep in mind is the unfavourable exchange rate for the dollar against the Euro, making things more expensive for Americans. For us Europeans it becomes more interesting to buy in the USA just because of this.
I do not think they have to worry about rain that much. Madrid is located in an area that is very dry. Drought is a big problem in Spain.
Jan-Simon
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07:55:04am
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
Ralph, great shots and story, thanks. Is that you in front of an intriguing Philately Store?
Peter
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Nov 2013
09:37:45am
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
" .... Another important thing to keep in mind is the unfavourable exchange rate for the dollar against the Euro, ...."
Jan the price differential was that way fifty plus years ago, the greenback dollar was king almost anywhere I traveled. In several places I had to declare how much US currency I was bringing ashore and be able to account for their exchange through receipts from a bank or legal dealers.
In some countries where there was a restrictive rate a knowledgeable traveler could get a much better exchange rate privately for a crispy $50.00 or $100.00 in what, of course a somewhat illegal transaction. Of course that would be from undeclared US funds and had to be carefully managed while roaming about, (ie concealed).
The idea of the "Euro" was but a twinkle in some economist's eye.
Simply put Dutch stamps are more popular in Rotterdam that Chicago and French stamps far more saleable in Paris or Marseille than New York and that fact is almost always reflected in local catalogs. Of course experienced stamp dealers were well aware of these differences so it was important to watch what catalog was being used for negotiating prices.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
That is a fact, plus (as far as I know) the US stamp market still concentrates heavily on US stamps. The rest of the world is/was not desirable which can be seen in the prices. I have a feeling that this is slowly changing.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
Several comments
1. Yes that was me in the arcade. I was specifically looking for Cuban Colonial stamps from the Spanish era. Even in Spain, they are hard to find. A dealer (the sign behind me) who had some really good inventory was pricing them at typically 3-4 times the Scott Catalog Value. Tourist pricing? Sellers in the stands inside and outside had little to satisfy me...but they all said they had more at home, and for me to come next week!
2. The worse place (price wise) to buy any stamp is the country where it is issued. But it is also the best place for variety and availability.
3. Europe does not discount stamps as much as we do here in the US. We truly have a free market, and we can still find good bargains. This is what I love most about it...the garage sale aspect of the market place here...like finding a rare inverted o/p in a bin of 10c stamps (just happened to me). Not that I plan to sell it, or do anything other than donate it one day...but it is such a thrill!
4. There are some NEW rules if you wish to make money at stamps. Buy countries with a growing middle class with more time and money. Large populations or better very fast growing populations helps. China comes to mind...but let me add a few more suggestions. The emerging tigers BRICKS (Brasil, Russia etc..) come to mind. Oil money countries (Saudi Arabia..etc.. has anyone priced these as of late!) The former colonies of the big colonial powers, in countries that are now developed or developing, or that have experienced lots of changes...(Palestine/Israel, former Ottoman Empire, etc..) and stay away from all modern stamps as Post Offices worldwide have spoiled the hobby!
As a side line..beware of counterfeits..it is becoming a real serious problem.
I now stay away from virtually all o/p! (unless priced very low)
5. The Internet is the best place to travel worldwide for your collection, but beware of Internet traps. Do explore ebay sites outside the US such as ebay/germany (de), ebay/france etc... especially when looking for non US stamps. For a stamp by stamp approach to fill your missing spots, ebay sucks..so use other sites such as Delcampe, Bidstart or Poppe.
6. Rain in Madrid? As some have already said, it is dry usually in Madrid. Also most of the stands are under the arcades. Tables outside could easily find more room on the fourth side of the square's arcades or skip the few rainy days, but there is such a nice feel to standing or sitting in the winter sun, outside, and close to a coffee terrace, should you need a break. In summer, sun shading by big umbrellas would be natural.
There is a street stamp market in Paris on the week ends, near the Champs Elysees, that I am familiar with, but this one in Madrid seemed less professional (more surprises) and much more extensive. And Spain is in a very deep recession???
Login to Like
this post
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
You have given us a good topic, Ralph: differences between the U.S. and worldwide stamp markets. Obviously, it is difficult to know "the" U.S. stamp market. Yet to say "the" stamp markets of the rest of the world. Most noted differences will be a mix of facts and perceptions, but two observations stick out in my mind:
First, the already observed difference in catalog values. I believe two major reasons are (1) the absence of a VAT in the U.S., which makes dealers' retail prices, which form the basis of catalog values, across the board lower compared to Europe, and, most importantly, (2) the pronounced difference in grades at which stamps are priced.
Second, there are many more worldwide collectors in the U.S. compared to other parts of the world. Several U.S. album manufacturers supply worldwide stamp albums, but no such product exists from European sources. If you subscribe to the laws of demand and supply, this is a meaningful observation.
Arno
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
13 Nov 2013
01:50:46pm
re: Stamp Collecting Alive and Well in Madrid, Spain
My experiences indicate that stamps cost more at flea markets and at stamp shops.
As I am not in this hobby for the money (Do you hear me, Michael?) I don't look for
bargains to resell.
I find stamps in Europe, particularly western Europe, are more expensive
than in Canada or the USA; best value for my stamp dollar is the USA by far. Most, repeat most,
of my satisfying stamp purchases have been made from the Stamporama auction board.
Swapping/trading/donating stamps is more enjoyable for me than buying them.
I love visiting stamp shops and flea markets to browse, talk to sellers, and to succumb to
spontaneous impulses to buy.
Thank you, "rraphy" for your interesting submission and photographs.
John Derry
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this post