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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : What Do You Think of This Statement?

 

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michael78651

05 Dec 2013
12:56:35pm
From a recent philatelic publication, here is a statement of interest:

"It is our position that dealers and collectors... are responsible for getting stamps into the marketplace where others can easily find them."

I see a valid point to this. If we hoard stamps that we do not want or need, there are undoubtedly many people out there who would want to add those stamps to their collections. How will they be able to obtain the stamps that they want if the stamps are not in circulation?

So what do you think of this statement?

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HungaryForStamps
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05 Dec 2013
01:46:17pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

My view on just about everything is that I have no right to dictate responsibilities to someone else. I'll leave that to the law. So, on that very simple principle I disagree.
The folks have the responsibilities they have created for themselves as dealers or collectors, period.

Now, on a more practical note, if collector or dealer hoarding is causing scarcity in the market and there is demand, then prices will rise. I see nothing wrong with dealers or collectors withholding material with that selfish objective (or any other of course). I think increased demand can do nothing but improve our hobby.

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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

05 Dec 2013
01:51:11pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

The word "marketplace" has connotations of commerce, applicable to stamp dealers
but not so much to stamp collectors.

As a collector, I am not inclined to bring my surplus stamps to the marketplace
and dispose of them in other ways - primarily by donation because most are
of little value.

I think the "statement" has little application to stamp collectors.

John Derry

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tuscany4me
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05 Dec 2013
01:57:40pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Now you tell me. lol. I have spent the past week or so throwing away a couple pounds of stamps, SORRY Nail Biting

In general,since I am a fairly new collector, I am not a seller nor am I a trader. I am trying to build my collection, which is by no means a hoard. I have nowhere near the amount of time I would love to have... to spend on my stamp collection and all the stamps I have thrown away were offered to others (not necessarily here on sor) and no one was interested. I did not want to throw them away.

But I have not acquired nor come across anything spectacular, just common everyday stamps that I know everyone has, because I see them in the sor auction or on ebay.

Then it got to the point (even here on sor auction) where I end up bidding on the same stamp two or three times, because I didn't recall purchasing it before (until I receive it) But... I guess -more power to the sellers for my bad memory Wave

I wish there were a way to get a notification --"Hey, you purchased that stamp already, are you sure you want to continue?"

Anyway.. I do save stamps to give freely, to others, such as Machins and flowers. I even tried giving them to local school teachers.. no one wanted them.

Clayton

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philb
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05 Dec 2013
02:05:02pm

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re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Clayton there are veterans hospitals that will gladly accept donations of stamps. As for the dealers they are like stockbrokers..they will sell when it behooves them !

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amsd
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05 Dec 2013
02:45:48pm

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re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Clayton,

one of our members is running the Holocaust project, that wants any used stamp. There's also Stamps for the Wounded, a program for vets that takes about anything and offers a tax deduction for its value.

Great thing about this site is if you ask, you'll find an answer to just about anything, including who wants my three pounds of world wide stamps.

David

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philb
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05 Dec 2013
03:42:49pm

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re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Woof !

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tomiseksj
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05 Dec 2013
04:44:55pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

"So what do you think of this statement?"



I think that, absent the context in which the statement was made, it is difficult to provide a reasoned assessment.

Absent context, I don't feel that collectors bear the same responsibility as dealers.
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HungaryForStamps
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06 Dec 2013
02:20:21pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

I assume the statement does not apply to common stamps as there should be no ill affect from hoarding those. But context would help.

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Les
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06 Dec 2013
03:47:49pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Getting stamps into the market is the function of a stamp dealer. So in that sense it is a responsibility. I just completed the APS US Banknotes class, and was startled to learn just how many stamps are mis-identified on eBay. Many of those mis-identified were offered by dealers either through ignorance or greed. It also seems to me that the dealer has to be honest, ethical and accept returns on any undamaged stamp.


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

06 Dec 2013
03:50:26pm

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re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

""It is our position that dealers and collectors... are responsible for getting stamps into the marketplace where others can easily find them.""



so i've been mulling this over way too long, and maybe by actually putting thoughts down I can free myself.

This has far broader implications than what's said. For instance, "finding" them doesn't mean "affording" them and what's the point of listing things that others can't buy or placing them at prices that seem destined to push others away. In addition, should i keep only one of a thing in order that all others be supplied? If not just one, how many? And if i want to study colors or cancels or..... Then what?

No, I think it is our responsibility to guard them against damage and keep the supply chain free of counterfeits. I think it is the postal administrations' responsibility to supply the market place with readily available material and not create artificial rarities nor force people to jump through hoops or pay extra or.... just to get what should be available.

I find joy from mentoring people, and anyone who wants to sit at my cyber (or real) knee is welcome to my knowledge, advice, and probably a good bunch of free stamps, but that's what i like to do; it is not my responsibility.

Now, if i want the hobby to continue beyond tomorrow, i would be advised to take steps to help it along, and that could include supplying the broader hobby, but that presumes that that's my desire.

No, I don't think the publication has it right at all, not that I won't, but that it's not my job.

David
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philb
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06 Dec 2013
03:57:32pm

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re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Obviously a collectors collection comes first...after thats satisfied why would he not want to return his surplus stamps to other collectors or the marketplace ?

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

06 Dec 2013
05:53:57pm

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re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

"want to" is one thing.... "responsible for" is another

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roy
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06 Dec 2013
08:56:47pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Frankly, standing on its own, I think it is a rather silly statement.

A "collector" collects. He/She does what he wants with the material while in his possession. He has no responsibility either to other collectors, nor to an amorphous "marketplace" during his lifetime. If he has a responsibility it is to the hobby itself upon his passing. All of the classic stamps in our collections, stamps that we enjoy, have been in other collections, sometimes many collections, during their existence. In this sense, we do not "own" the stamps, but are temporary caretakers. If a collector has a responsibility, it is to assure that the stamps the collector has treasured get the opportunity to pass into other hands that will appreciate them equally upon his passing.

As far as dealers are concerned (of which I am one), this statement defines a dealer's self interest. Of course my role is to get stamps (and covers) into the marketplace where they can be easily found! However, it is not a responsibility to the marketplace that makes me do this, it is a responsibility to my business, and in fact determines my ultimate success or failure. In this sense, the statement is an empty one, equivalent to saying that the responsibility of a plumber is to plumb. As a dealer, I have many responsibilities ... respect for my product, respect for my customers, dealing with both buyers and sellers in fairness, and on and on. But making my stamps easy to find is survival, not a responsibility to the market.

So, in summary, in one case, the statement is inapplicable, and in the other, it is an empty statement.

Roy

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red-eric-1

A collector since birth

24 Jan 2014
01:41:11pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

"It is our position that dealers and collectors... are responsible for getting stamps into the marketplace where others can easily find them."

I think that it behooves dealers who are trying to maximize their return from their efforts to make the stamps they have as available for purchase as possible. (unless they are holding them for speculative purchases.) That's only good business practice. So, from the dealer perspective I guess I agree with the statement.

For collectors, it's completely up to the individual whether they want to sell or not. Ultimately, it's their money that's tied up both in material in their collections proper, and in excess material. For those of us with limited funds for our hobby, though, it kind of makes sense to get excess stamps "out there" (trade or sale) so that we can get more of the material we really want for our collections.

Eric

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

25 Jan 2014
12:01:52am
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

My position would be best illustrated by a simple example. Let's say that I am in possession of the only two examples of a rarity. I have determined that the value of ONE by itself, if the other didn't exist, would be greater that the TWO together, so I burn one of the examples to make the remaining example unique. That is completely within my rights and I have no obligation otherwise.

Fast forward several years. I am on my deathbed and I leave ALL of my extensive collection to my heirs, but I want that lone rarity placed in my pocket just before I'm cremated. That, too, is my right.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to preserve anything! I rip plate numbers off of stamps if they don't suit me. Supply and demand will dictate when such a move is too foolish from a financial point of view.

As to fakes, that's a different story. I think we all have an obligation to point out these obscenities when we see them, if for no other reason than to pay it forward for those that helped us in the past. I have no obligation to the hobby itself, but I do have an implicit obligation to my fellow philatelists to protect them from harm if it is reasonably within my ability.

JMHO.

Lars

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michael78651

25 Jan 2014
12:11:26am
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

An interesting take on that, Lars.

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csheer
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31 Jan 2014
04:29:01pm
re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

OUCH! A couple of pounds of stamps went into the trash!!!???
David is correct... Your unwanted stamps are like gold to the Holocaust Stamps Project, Foxborough Regional Charter School, 131 Central St., Foxboro, MA 02035....trying to amass 11,000,000 stamps!

See my recent post under Philatelic Discussion: Update:Holocaust Stamps Project.

Thanks to all who have donated stamps already!

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Author/Postings
michael78651

05 Dec 2013
12:56:35pm

From a recent philatelic publication, here is a statement of interest:

"It is our position that dealers and collectors... are responsible for getting stamps into the marketplace where others can easily find them."

I see a valid point to this. If we hoard stamps that we do not want or need, there are undoubtedly many people out there who would want to add those stamps to their collections. How will they be able to obtain the stamps that they want if the stamps are not in circulation?

So what do you think of this statement?

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Members Picture
HungaryForStamps

05 Dec 2013
01:46:17pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

My view on just about everything is that I have no right to dictate responsibilities to someone else. I'll leave that to the law. So, on that very simple principle I disagree.
The folks have the responsibilities they have created for themselves as dealers or collectors, period.

Now, on a more practical note, if collector or dealer hoarding is causing scarcity in the market and there is demand, then prices will rise. I see nothing wrong with dealers or collectors withholding material with that selfish objective (or any other of course). I think increased demand can do nothing but improve our hobby.

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this post

The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
05 Dec 2013
01:51:11pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

The word "marketplace" has connotations of commerce, applicable to stamp dealers
but not so much to stamp collectors.

As a collector, I am not inclined to bring my surplus stamps to the marketplace
and dispose of them in other ways - primarily by donation because most are
of little value.

I think the "statement" has little application to stamp collectors.

John Derry

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"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

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tuscany4me

05 Dec 2013
01:57:40pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Now you tell me. lol. I have spent the past week or so throwing away a couple pounds of stamps, SORRY Nail Biting

In general,since I am a fairly new collector, I am not a seller nor am I a trader. I am trying to build my collection, which is by no means a hoard. I have nowhere near the amount of time I would love to have... to spend on my stamp collection and all the stamps I have thrown away were offered to others (not necessarily here on sor) and no one was interested. I did not want to throw them away.

But I have not acquired nor come across anything spectacular, just common everyday stamps that I know everyone has, because I see them in the sor auction or on ebay.

Then it got to the point (even here on sor auction) where I end up bidding on the same stamp two or three times, because I didn't recall purchasing it before (until I receive it) But... I guess -more power to the sellers for my bad memory Wave

I wish there were a way to get a notification --"Hey, you purchased that stamp already, are you sure you want to continue?"

Anyway.. I do save stamps to give freely, to others, such as Machins and flowers. I even tried giving them to local school teachers.. no one wanted them.

Clayton

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philb

05 Dec 2013
02:05:02pm

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re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Clayton there are veterans hospitals that will gladly accept donations of stamps. As for the dealers they are like stockbrokers..they will sell when it behooves them !

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"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
05 Dec 2013
02:45:48pm

Auctions

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Clayton,

one of our members is running the Holocaust project, that wants any used stamp. There's also Stamps for the Wounded, a program for vets that takes about anything and offers a tax deduction for its value.

Great thing about this site is if you ask, you'll find an answer to just about anything, including who wants my three pounds of world wide stamps.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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philb

05 Dec 2013
03:42:49pm

Auctions

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Woof !

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tomiseksj

05 Dec 2013
04:44:55pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

"So what do you think of this statement?"



I think that, absent the context in which the statement was made, it is difficult to provide a reasoned assessment.

Absent context, I don't feel that collectors bear the same responsibility as dealers.
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HungaryForStamps

06 Dec 2013
02:20:21pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

I assume the statement does not apply to common stamps as there should be no ill affect from hoarding those. But context would help.

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Les

06 Dec 2013
03:47:49pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Getting stamps into the market is the function of a stamp dealer. So in that sense it is a responsibility. I just completed the APS US Banknotes class, and was startled to learn just how many stamps are mis-identified on eBay. Many of those mis-identified were offered by dealers either through ignorance or greed. It also seems to me that the dealer has to be honest, ethical and accept returns on any undamaged stamp.


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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Dec 2013
03:50:26pm

Auctions

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

""It is our position that dealers and collectors... are responsible for getting stamps into the marketplace where others can easily find them.""



so i've been mulling this over way too long, and maybe by actually putting thoughts down I can free myself.

This has far broader implications than what's said. For instance, "finding" them doesn't mean "affording" them and what's the point of listing things that others can't buy or placing them at prices that seem destined to push others away. In addition, should i keep only one of a thing in order that all others be supplied? If not just one, how many? And if i want to study colors or cancels or..... Then what?

No, I think it is our responsibility to guard them against damage and keep the supply chain free of counterfeits. I think it is the postal administrations' responsibility to supply the market place with readily available material and not create artificial rarities nor force people to jump through hoops or pay extra or.... just to get what should be available.

I find joy from mentoring people, and anyone who wants to sit at my cyber (or real) knee is welcome to my knowledge, advice, and probably a good bunch of free stamps, but that's what i like to do; it is not my responsibility.

Now, if i want the hobby to continue beyond tomorrow, i would be advised to take steps to help it along, and that could include supplying the broader hobby, but that presumes that that's my desire.

No, I don't think the publication has it right at all, not that I won't, but that it's not my job.

David
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philb

06 Dec 2013
03:57:32pm

Auctions

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Obviously a collectors collection comes first...after thats satisfied why would he not want to return his surplus stamps to other collectors or the marketplace ?

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Dec 2013
05:53:57pm

Auctions

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

"want to" is one thing.... "responsible for" is another

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
06 Dec 2013
08:56:47pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

Frankly, standing on its own, I think it is a rather silly statement.

A "collector" collects. He/She does what he wants with the material while in his possession. He has no responsibility either to other collectors, nor to an amorphous "marketplace" during his lifetime. If he has a responsibility it is to the hobby itself upon his passing. All of the classic stamps in our collections, stamps that we enjoy, have been in other collections, sometimes many collections, during their existence. In this sense, we do not "own" the stamps, but are temporary caretakers. If a collector has a responsibility, it is to assure that the stamps the collector has treasured get the opportunity to pass into other hands that will appreciate them equally upon his passing.

As far as dealers are concerned (of which I am one), this statement defines a dealer's self interest. Of course my role is to get stamps (and covers) into the marketplace where they can be easily found! However, it is not a responsibility to the marketplace that makes me do this, it is a responsibility to my business, and in fact determines my ultimate success or failure. In this sense, the statement is an empty one, equivalent to saying that the responsibility of a plumber is to plumb. As a dealer, I have many responsibilities ... respect for my product, respect for my customers, dealing with both buyers and sellers in fairness, and on and on. But making my stamps easy to find is survival, not a responsibility to the market.

So, in summary, in one case, the statement is inapplicable, and in the other, it is an empty statement.

Roy

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red-eric-1

A collector since birth

24 Jan 2014
01:41:11pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

"It is our position that dealers and collectors... are responsible for getting stamps into the marketplace where others can easily find them."

I think that it behooves dealers who are trying to maximize their return from their efforts to make the stamps they have as available for purchase as possible. (unless they are holding them for speculative purchases.) That's only good business practice. So, from the dealer perspective I guess I agree with the statement.

For collectors, it's completely up to the individual whether they want to sell or not. Ultimately, it's their money that's tied up both in material in their collections proper, and in excess material. For those of us with limited funds for our hobby, though, it kind of makes sense to get excess stamps "out there" (trade or sale) so that we can get more of the material we really want for our collections.

Eric

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
25 Jan 2014
12:01:52am

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

My position would be best illustrated by a simple example. Let's say that I am in possession of the only two examples of a rarity. I have determined that the value of ONE by itself, if the other didn't exist, would be greater that the TWO together, so I burn one of the examples to make the remaining example unique. That is completely within my rights and I have no obligation otherwise.

Fast forward several years. I am on my deathbed and I leave ALL of my extensive collection to my heirs, but I want that lone rarity placed in my pocket just before I'm cremated. That, too, is my right.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to preserve anything! I rip plate numbers off of stamps if they don't suit me. Supply and demand will dictate when such a move is too foolish from a financial point of view.

As to fakes, that's a different story. I think we all have an obligation to point out these obscenities when we see them, if for no other reason than to pay it forward for those that helped us in the past. I have no obligation to the hobby itself, but I do have an implicit obligation to my fellow philatelists to protect them from harm if it is reasonably within my ability.

JMHO.

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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michael78651

25 Jan 2014
12:11:26am

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

An interesting take on that, Lars.

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csheer

31 Jan 2014
04:29:01pm

re: What Do You Think of This Statement?

OUCH! A couple of pounds of stamps went into the trash!!!???
David is correct... Your unwanted stamps are like gold to the Holocaust Stamps Project, Foxborough Regional Charter School, 131 Central St., Foxboro, MA 02035....trying to amass 11,000,000 stamps!

See my recent post under Philatelic Discussion: Update:Holocaust Stamps Project.

Thanks to all who have donated stamps already!

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