Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Wondering if anyone here has ever thought that this is an improper or disrespectful use of our flag. I never thought about it in that regard before. Any opinions?
Sally
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I don't find it disrespectful myself. Quite the contrary, really. There are other things I find much more disrespectful, but I don't feel the need to go on any rant this evening.
I do, however, find the topic very similar to an argument about whether the King/Queen of England (or other monarch) should be on a stamp that is summarily defaced with a black splotch or cancel. I believe there have been such arguments in the past. Do you think the same argument/mentality applies?
Doug
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When the Penny Black was released in 1840, many postal clerks were horrified to be told they had to deface the image of Her Majesty.
Even to-day, those of us who collect British Commonwealth prize a "face free" cancel on a stamp. That is, the cancel does not obliterate His Late Majesty, or Her Majesty.
David
Ottawa, Canada
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Anecdotal observation: no matter how small the nits, someone will gather them.
For example, few postage stamps depict the rear view of personages because
of complaints about licking backsides, etc. (Scott, Canada 2219 is a rare
exception and welcomed addition to a small and unusual topical theme.)
As a bona fide newspaper junkie, I am qualified to report that there is a huge
population of obsessed, shallow-minded, hyper-sensitive trolls who surf
the media determined to complain about anything, no matter how insignificant,
that is not just unacceptable, but totally unacceptable, reportage.
Those most strident and vehement in insisting that their national flags
are sacrosanct, untouchable and to be revered by all, are, as history
has demonstrated far too often, the very jingoists that lead their nations into war.
These are also the very people that do not want to know about the flag-studded
postage stamps that I have shredded or burned without so much as a qualm.
John Derry
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Can anyone remember this, but there was a country, back in the early days of stamps, where it was illegal to place a cancellation over the face of the king. To do so was a capital crime. I can't remember which country that was.
I don't find it a problem to have a country's flag on a stamp. It travels the mail and shows one's pride in country.
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Michael i don't know that country..but when Eva Peron was alive the postal clerks were very respectful when cancelling stamps with her image. You can almost tell when the change took place !
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Isabel II of Spain was one who objected to having her portrait defaced on stamps.
If you look on this site, go down to the heading Breaking New Ground. The stamp in the centre shows the cancellation devised to leave the queen's face unmarked -- the Spider. It proved to be not all that successful, due to a lot of poor centering of the cancellation.
http://www.stampsonstamps.org/csaposos.htm
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The writer of this letter calls it purist but what is the difference with islamic fundamentalists who object to cartoons about Mohamed?
The way the American flag is worshipped will probably always remain difficult to understand for us foreigners.
Jan-Simon
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In the letter, he also mentioned faded and torn flags on flagpoles, bumperstickers, window decals, and just about any other place you can think of to put a flag. He even threw in a reference to 9/11 and backward facing flags. The general tone I took from it was someone overly obsessed who just needed to vent - thankfully on paper without harming anyone else.
Fundamentalism aside, I was interested in whether anyone thinks it is disrepectful to depict the flag on a stamp. I never gave it much thought - flags have been on stamps since before I started collecting way back when and will probably continue to be on stamps until stamps are no longer issued.
To me, there is a big difference between cancelling a stamp or discarding an envelope and burning a flag in front of an embassy somewhere. Apparently, "purists" might disagree.
Thanks for the responses. It was interesting reading about the kings and queens not wanting their images defaced. For those who disliked the monarchs, I wonder if they may have enjoyed cancelling those stamps.
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I have to admit... I'm not a "purist", but it does bother me every time I see it that my local post office does not light the flag that it leaves flying all night. To me, especially from a "government agency", this is lack of knowledge/respect to the flag and what it represents. In the U.S., there is a "proper" way to display and treat the flag, and as a Scouter, I try to instill this in our youth. To me, again, it's not about nationalism, but about remembrance and respect for those who have come before us and made sacrifices so that my children and I may live the way we do. I sigh about it and shake my head, but I don't make a fuss, although I have considered writing a letter to my local Postmaster to educate them that people do indeed notice these things. I don't get these same feelings about postage stamps or other "images".
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Do they have a light there that can illuminate the flag? If so, maybe it's burned out or not plugged in and they don't know about it.
One post office that I know down here has a Mexican employee in charge of raising the US flag when the post office opened. He was flying the flag upside down. I definitely reported that one.
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No, Michael. I've looked for that very thing.
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I hear you, Doug. The elementary school in my neighborhood goes to the other extreme; they have a huge flag pole but never fly the flag.
I fly the US and Canadian flags outside my house, and of course during college football season, the Notre Dame flag adorns the carport. 
Peter
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02:32:52am
I think some of you are thinking about early Italian stamps that were cancelled with a ring shaped device that, when applied properly, would surround the monarch's head as a wreath would, but not soil his precious visage.
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First, to the question posed: i do not find it disrespectful to cancel the US flag nor pictures of any of our leaders. We honor them by portraying them.
I believe Mao was among those whose image wasn't defaced, at least not while he was alive.
I personally worry less about the flag than i do about the values of the country it represents.
David
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I don't care if the flag is, or is not, on stamps. I don't care if they are affixed to the envelope upside down. I don't care if stamps with flags are cancelled, shredded or burned. I don't care if a real flag is shredded or burned. I don't care if it's illuminated at night or flies in a rain storm or touches the ground.
Having said all that, I just wish the US flag at the Post Office and the US flag at the Sheriff's office (across the street) were at half-staff at the same time. I don't think states should be able to lower the US flag without a national decree. Just my humble opinion.
Lars
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But Lars, do you like green eggs and ham?
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10:27:58pm
Somewhat in line with this topic - as mentioned about the Penny Black ----
With my warped sense of humour, I was just thinking "If I were a member of the Royal Family..."
Then the thought came: A friend asks me what my plans are for the day. First I have to post a letter. My response? First I have to post Granny, then I.....
Hmm... I wonder if any of Queen Elizabeth's grandchildren have ever had that thought. 
Kelly
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Does the royal family have free franking privilege?
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10:30:57am
I'll have to ask next time I'm at the palace :-)
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Yes, our Royal Family has free franking priviledges.
David
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08:10:22pm
How far back does that go in the Royal line? I'm related to King Harold (nothing to boast about) and Swedish royalty (several times over). Wondering if I can opt for free post? Lol
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In my neighborhood when I was growing up, it was common to shred the flag to patch blue jeans etc. I remember one kid with bit of flag on his rear and another using one as a shower curtain. Flag burning also was quite common.
Although I didn't object to the practice, I did raise a question about it to one of my acquaintances at the time, and I think I got the reputation for being part of the "establishment" amongst that group of kids - a pot smoking, acid dropping, long haired, anti-war member, but apparently that didn't matter. I think I suggested their flag burning etc., supposedly to protest the injustices of the "establishment", was really a protest against their parent's getting divorced and leaving them essentially on their own as the summered in whatever nice resort they frequented. I didn't object to the actual dismemberment and incineration of that symbol of freedom - I objected to the lack of a decent reason for it.
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My local newspaper published a letter to the editor regarding the American flag and how it needs to be treated properly and with more respect. One of the points made was that "even the flaglike designs on postage stamps are disturbing to a purist". I don't know if he objects to the images used or more to the fact that they are thrown into the garbage, but he carried on and on for several paragraphs.
Wondering if anyone here has ever thought that this is an improper or disrespectful use of our flag. I never thought about it in that regard before. Any opinions?
Sally
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re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
I don't find it disrespectful myself. Quite the contrary, really. There are other things I find much more disrespectful, but I don't feel the need to go on any rant this evening.
I do, however, find the topic very similar to an argument about whether the King/Queen of England (or other monarch) should be on a stamp that is summarily defaced with a black splotch or cancel. I believe there have been such arguments in the past. Do you think the same argument/mentality applies?
Doug
Login to Like
this post
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
When the Penny Black was released in 1840, many postal clerks were horrified to be told they had to deface the image of Her Majesty.
Even to-day, those of us who collect British Commonwealth prize a "face free" cancel on a stamp. That is, the cancel does not obliterate His Late Majesty, or Her Majesty.
David
Ottawa, Canada
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
10 Jan 2014
07:44:07pm
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Anecdotal observation: no matter how small the nits, someone will gather them.
For example, few postage stamps depict the rear view of personages because
of complaints about licking backsides, etc. (Scott, Canada 2219 is a rare
exception and welcomed addition to a small and unusual topical theme.)
As a bona fide newspaper junkie, I am qualified to report that there is a huge
population of obsessed, shallow-minded, hyper-sensitive trolls who surf
the media determined to complain about anything, no matter how insignificant,
that is not just unacceptable, but totally unacceptable, reportage.
Those most strident and vehement in insisting that their national flags
are sacrosanct, untouchable and to be revered by all, are, as history
has demonstrated far too often, the very jingoists that lead their nations into war.
These are also the very people that do not want to know about the flag-studded
postage stamps that I have shredded or burned without so much as a qualm.
John Derry
2 Members
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09:37:05pm
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Can anyone remember this, but there was a country, back in the early days of stamps, where it was illegal to place a cancellation over the face of the king. To do so was a capital crime. I can't remember which country that was.
I don't find it a problem to have a country's flag on a stamp. It travels the mail and shows one's pride in country.
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re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Michael i don't know that country..but when Eva Peron was alive the postal clerks were very respectful when cancelling stamps with her image. You can almost tell when the change took place !
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12:56:36am
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Isabel II of Spain was one who objected to having her portrait defaced on stamps.
If you look on this site, go down to the heading Breaking New Ground. The stamp in the centre shows the cancellation devised to leave the queen's face unmarked -- the Spider. It proved to be not all that successful, due to a lot of poor centering of the cancellation.
http://www.stampsonstamps.org/csaposos.htm
Login to Like
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re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
The writer of this letter calls it purist but what is the difference with islamic fundamentalists who object to cartoons about Mohamed?
The way the American flag is worshipped will probably always remain difficult to understand for us foreigners.
Jan-Simon
6 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
In the letter, he also mentioned faded and torn flags on flagpoles, bumperstickers, window decals, and just about any other place you can think of to put a flag. He even threw in a reference to 9/11 and backward facing flags. The general tone I took from it was someone overly obsessed who just needed to vent - thankfully on paper without harming anyone else.
Fundamentalism aside, I was interested in whether anyone thinks it is disrepectful to depict the flag on a stamp. I never gave it much thought - flags have been on stamps since before I started collecting way back when and will probably continue to be on stamps until stamps are no longer issued.
To me, there is a big difference between cancelling a stamp or discarding an envelope and burning a flag in front of an embassy somewhere. Apparently, "purists" might disagree.
Thanks for the responses. It was interesting reading about the kings and queens not wanting their images defaced. For those who disliked the monarchs, I wonder if they may have enjoyed cancelling those stamps.
Login to Like
this post
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
I have to admit... I'm not a "purist", but it does bother me every time I see it that my local post office does not light the flag that it leaves flying all night. To me, especially from a "government agency", this is lack of knowledge/respect to the flag and what it represents. In the U.S., there is a "proper" way to display and treat the flag, and as a Scouter, I try to instill this in our youth. To me, again, it's not about nationalism, but about remembrance and respect for those who have come before us and made sacrifices so that my children and I may live the way we do. I sigh about it and shake my head, but I don't make a fuss, although I have considered writing a letter to my local Postmaster to educate them that people do indeed notice these things. I don't get these same feelings about postage stamps or other "images".
Login to Like
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05:09:58pm
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Do they have a light there that can illuminate the flag? If so, maybe it's burned out or not plugged in and they don't know about it.
One post office that I know down here has a Mexican employee in charge of raising the US flag when the post office opened. He was flying the flag upside down. I definitely reported that one.
Login to Like
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re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
No, Michael. I've looked for that very thing.
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07:04:33pm
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
I hear you, Doug. The elementary school in my neighborhood goes to the other extreme; they have a huge flag pole but never fly the flag.
I fly the US and Canadian flags outside my house, and of course during college football season, the Notre Dame flag adorns the carport.
Peter
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
12 Jan 2014
02:32:52am
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
I think some of you are thinking about early Italian stamps that were cancelled with a ring shaped device that, when applied properly, would surround the monarch's head as a wreath would, but not soil his precious visage.
Login to Like
this post
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
First, to the question posed: i do not find it disrespectful to cancel the US flag nor pictures of any of our leaders. We honor them by portraying them.
I believe Mao was among those whose image wasn't defaced, at least not while he was alive.
I personally worry less about the flag than i do about the values of the country it represents.
David
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re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
I don't care if the flag is, or is not, on stamps. I don't care if they are affixed to the envelope upside down. I don't care if stamps with flags are cancelled, shredded or burned. I don't care if a real flag is shredded or burned. I don't care if it's illuminated at night or flies in a rain storm or touches the ground.
Having said all that, I just wish the US flag at the Post Office and the US flag at the Sheriff's office (across the street) were at half-staff at the same time. I don't think states should be able to lower the US flag without a national decree. Just my humble opinion.
Lars
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02:40:33am
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
But Lars, do you like green eggs and ham?
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
26 Jan 2014
10:27:58pm
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Somewhat in line with this topic - as mentioned about the Penny Black ----
With my warped sense of humour, I was just thinking "If I were a member of the Royal Family..."
Then the thought came: A friend asks me what my plans are for the day. First I have to post a letter. My response? First I have to post Granny, then I.....
Hmm... I wonder if any of Queen Elizabeth's grandchildren have ever had that thought.
Kelly
Login to Like
this post
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Does the royal family have free franking privilege?
Login to Like
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
27 Jan 2014
10:30:57am
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
I'll have to ask next time I'm at the palace :-)
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re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
Yes, our Royal Family has free franking priviledges.
David
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
27 Jan 2014
08:10:22pm
re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
How far back does that go in the Royal line? I'm related to King Harold (nothing to boast about) and Swedish royalty (several times over). Wondering if I can opt for free post? Lol
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re: US Flag stamps disrespectful?
In my neighborhood when I was growing up, it was common to shred the flag to patch blue jeans etc. I remember one kid with bit of flag on his rear and another using one as a shower curtain. Flag burning also was quite common.
Although I didn't object to the practice, I did raise a question about it to one of my acquaintances at the time, and I think I got the reputation for being part of the "establishment" amongst that group of kids - a pot smoking, acid dropping, long haired, anti-war member, but apparently that didn't matter. I think I suggested their flag burning etc., supposedly to protest the injustices of the "establishment", was really a protest against their parent's getting divorced and leaving them essentially on their own as the summered in whatever nice resort they frequented. I didn't object to the actual dismemberment and incineration of that symbol of freedom - I objected to the lack of a decent reason for it.
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