I can hear an echo on this thread. Hello-o-o-o-o-o-o.
No opinions? No justification arguments? No pithy comments?
Anybody out there-air-air-air-air...
Bruce
I hear you, Bruce.
My presumption as a seller would be that the following items should be placed in this category: (1) "covers," meaning envelopes or wrappers which have passed through the mail stream, (2)"card," meaning postal cards or postcards, used and unused, and (3)"postmarks," meaning stamps (off paper or on piece) or cut squares with unusual or special cancels.
I looked at the 176 items (just prior to making this post) in the category on the auction board and observed the following: There were numerous "covers" listed; there were unused postcards listed (I didn't see any used ones); there were a few (very few) stamps with unusual or special cancels; and, there were many used stamps with nothing unusual whatsoever about their cancels, use, or anything else.
Whether it is right or wrong to include postmarks in this category, I cannot say. But if they are to be included, there needs to be some exercise of judgment (or common sense) on the part of the sellers who place them there.
Bobby
i would be for removing the cancels from covers and post cards. while they can be related, it is seldom used for that here, mostly featuring stamps with SON cancels.
is there anyone in the auction, as buyer and/or seller, who would bemoan the removal of cancels from covers and PCs?
David the auctioneer
We have changed the category to include ONLY Covers and Post Cards (which are a subset of Covers anyway). Please do NOT post postmarks here anymore; instead post them with the stamp's country.
This brought little commentary, and what little that came was all for this change.
David the auctioneer
Hurray!!!
A facet of space cover collecting is the collecting of pictorial cancels with a space theme. Where would I list them as they are covers with pictorial cancels on them? The stamps used are not as important as the pictorial cancel used.
John, still in the coves section, as they ARE covers, albeit whose cancels are the important element. it's not that cancels can't be shown here, it's that we're removing cancels independent of the envelopes on which they placed.
Thanks for making the change after a suitable commentary time.
Bruce
my pleasure, Bruce and Roy. Glad Tim was able to execute it for us.
So basically, if the stamp and its cancel are "on piece" or a cut out from an embossed card, this belongs in the non-cover sections. But if the cover is intact, or it is postal stationery, put it in the cover section.
Gotcha.
Peter
Peter, i'd probably put all cut squares in the country section, although a case could be made for postal stationary cut squares the same as postal stationary entires. David
Sorry, one more question.....not too far off Peter's (on piece)
2x4 cut corners (stamps on piece), a forgotten area..... normally listed in postal history...
Ok to list these in cover category? They are not considered S-O-T-N....
Michael, i wouldn't encourage them in the cover category, although the case could be made. I think placing cut squares of postal envelopes is acceptable, but i'd rather see cut squares of stamps and cancels elsewhere, either in topical and/or country of origin.
Of course, if you think i'm missing the mark, we can discuss further and you could start by showing examples that support your proposal.
David
"showing examples that support your proposal. "
2x4 were the traditional way of collecting cancellations or postage meters, before most collectors nowadays prefer the full cover. In the current reorganization of auction categories, the category for postmarks was dropped from the covers category. It used to be covers and postmarks. There were not a lot of bona fide offerings of postmarks. However, some folks listed every cancelled stamp in the postmark category. That caused postmarks to be dropped as a separate named category. I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other" category, which perhaps should be better named "Everything else philatelic" instead of "Philatelic related". I will watch out for your listing, Mike. Not that I like 2x4s that much, but depending on how things go, I will get out my scissors .
Arno
Many years ago, I found a few thousand of these at the bottom of an auction box, I thought it was great. It started me on a path to cancel collecting.... it went from great to banging my head on my desk and laying fetal position in a corner of the room for hours on end.... but I'm getting better, the nightmares have almost stopped.
Mike,
yes, seeing your post, I would argue against covers and use both "US" and "topical" but i have no objection if you follow Arno's suggestion, which would also work.
David
"both "US" and "topical""
" I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other""
"only be listed under one category only"
Mike,
you are correct; approvals can only have one category only, in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy
Auctions, on the other hand....
David
" in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy"
yes, and with all the puns and multiple entendres, Mike
I may have missed a thread on this subject but I was wondering about the decision to place postmarked stamps off cover into the category of Covers? I can see the consolidation with Postcards but including stamps in this category kind of irks me. Seems socked on nose stamps and the like belong under the stamp category for their particular country.
Irked but not permanently,
Bruce
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
I can hear an echo on this thread. Hello-o-o-o-o-o-o.
No opinions? No justification arguments? No pithy comments?
Anybody out there-air-air-air-air...
Bruce
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
I hear you, Bruce.
My presumption as a seller would be that the following items should be placed in this category: (1) "covers," meaning envelopes or wrappers which have passed through the mail stream, (2)"card," meaning postal cards or postcards, used and unused, and (3)"postmarks," meaning stamps (off paper or on piece) or cut squares with unusual or special cancels.
I looked at the 176 items (just prior to making this post) in the category on the auction board and observed the following: There were numerous "covers" listed; there were unused postcards listed (I didn't see any used ones); there were a few (very few) stamps with unusual or special cancels; and, there were many used stamps with nothing unusual whatsoever about their cancels, use, or anything else.
Whether it is right or wrong to include postmarks in this category, I cannot say. But if they are to be included, there needs to be some exercise of judgment (or common sense) on the part of the sellers who place them there.
Bobby
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
i would be for removing the cancels from covers and post cards. while they can be related, it is seldom used for that here, mostly featuring stamps with SON cancels.
is there anyone in the auction, as buyer and/or seller, who would bemoan the removal of cancels from covers and PCs?
David the auctioneer
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
We have changed the category to include ONLY Covers and Post Cards (which are a subset of Covers anyway). Please do NOT post postmarks here anymore; instead post them with the stamp's country.
This brought little commentary, and what little that came was all for this change.
David the auctioneer
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Hurray!!!
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
A facet of space cover collecting is the collecting of pictorial cancels with a space theme. Where would I list them as they are covers with pictorial cancels on them? The stamps used are not as important as the pictorial cancel used.
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
John, still in the coves section, as they ARE covers, albeit whose cancels are the important element. it's not that cancels can't be shown here, it's that we're removing cancels independent of the envelopes on which they placed.
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Thanks for making the change after a suitable commentary time.
Bruce
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
my pleasure, Bruce and Roy. Glad Tim was able to execute it for us.
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
So basically, if the stamp and its cancel are "on piece" or a cut out from an embossed card, this belongs in the non-cover sections. But if the cover is intact, or it is postal stationery, put it in the cover section.
Gotcha.
Peter
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Peter, i'd probably put all cut squares in the country section, although a case could be made for postal stationary cut squares the same as postal stationary entires. David
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Sorry, one more question.....not too far off Peter's (on piece)
2x4 cut corners (stamps on piece), a forgotten area..... normally listed in postal history...
Ok to list these in cover category? They are not considered S-O-T-N....
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Michael, i wouldn't encourage them in the cover category, although the case could be made. I think placing cut squares of postal envelopes is acceptable, but i'd rather see cut squares of stamps and cancels elsewhere, either in topical and/or country of origin.
Of course, if you think i'm missing the mark, we can discuss further and you could start by showing examples that support your proposal.
David
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
"showing examples that support your proposal. "
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
2x4 were the traditional way of collecting cancellations or postage meters, before most collectors nowadays prefer the full cover. In the current reorganization of auction categories, the category for postmarks was dropped from the covers category. It used to be covers and postmarks. There were not a lot of bona fide offerings of postmarks. However, some folks listed every cancelled stamp in the postmark category. That caused postmarks to be dropped as a separate named category. I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other" category, which perhaps should be better named "Everything else philatelic" instead of "Philatelic related". I will watch out for your listing, Mike. Not that I like 2x4s that much, but depending on how things go, I will get out my scissors .
Arno
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Many years ago, I found a few thousand of these at the bottom of an auction box, I thought it was great. It started me on a path to cancel collecting.... it went from great to banging my head on my desk and laying fetal position in a corner of the room for hours on end.... but I'm getting better, the nightmares have almost stopped.
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Mike,
yes, seeing your post, I would argue against covers and use both "US" and "topical" but i have no objection if you follow Arno's suggestion, which would also work.
David
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
"both "US" and "topical""
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
" I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other""
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
"only be listed under one category only"
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
Mike,
you are correct; approvals can only have one category only, in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy
Auctions, on the other hand....
David
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
" in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy"
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...
yes, and with all the puns and multiple entendres, Mike