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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Auction Disc. : Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

 

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Stampme

22 Jan 2014
05:10:17pm
I may have missed a thread on this subject but I was wondering about the decision to place postmarked stamps off cover into the category of Covers? I can see the consolidation with Postcards but including stamps in this category kind of irks me. Seems socked on nose stamps and the like belong under the stamp category for their particular country.
Irked but not permanently,
Bruce
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Stampme

25 Jan 2014
12:03:16pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

I can hear an echo on this thread. Hello-o-o-o-o-o-o.

No opinions? No justification arguments? No pithy comments?

Anybody out there-air-air-air-air...

Happy

Bruce

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

25 Jan 2014
01:43:16pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

I hear you, Bruce.

My presumption as a seller would be that the following items should be placed in this category: (1) "covers," meaning envelopes or wrappers which have passed through the mail stream, (2)"card," meaning postal cards or postcards, used and unused, and (3)"postmarks," meaning stamps (off paper or on piece) or cut squares with unusual or special cancels.

I looked at the 176 items (just prior to making this post) in the category on the auction board and observed the following: There were numerous "covers" listed; there were unused postcards listed (I didn't see any used ones); there were a few (very few) stamps with unusual or special cancels; and, there were many used stamps with nothing unusual whatsoever about their cancels, use, or anything else.

Whether it is right or wrong to include postmarks in this category, I cannot say. But if they are to be included, there needs to be some exercise of judgment (or common sense) on the part of the sellers who place them there.

Bobby

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

26 Jan 2014
10:27:28am
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

i would be for removing the cancels from covers and post cards. while they can be related, it is seldom used for that here, mostly featuring stamps with SON cancels.

is there anyone in the auction, as buyer and/or seller, who would bemoan the removal of cancels from covers and PCs?

David the auctioneer

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

28 Jan 2014
09:33:00pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

We have changed the category to include ONLY Covers and Post Cards (which are a subset of Covers anyway). Please do NOT post postmarks here anymore; instead post them with the stamp's country.

This brought little commentary, and what little that came was all for this change.

David the auctioneer

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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

28 Jan 2014
10:00:24pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Hurray!!!

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John Macco
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Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector

29 Jan 2014
06:58:18pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

A facet of space cover collecting is the collecting of pictorial cancels with a space theme. Where would I list them as they are covers with pictorial cancels on them? The stamps used are not as important as the pictorial cancel used.ConfusedConfused

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

29 Jan 2014
09:06:52pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

John, still in the coves section, as they ARE covers, albeit whose cancels are the important element. it's not that cancels can't be shown here, it's that we're removing cancels independent of the envelopes on which they placed.

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Stampme

29 Jan 2014
09:10:08pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Thanks for making the change after a suitable commentary time.
Bruce

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

30 Jan 2014
09:17:53am
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

my pleasure, Bruce and Roy. Glad Tim was able to execute it for us.

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cocollectibles

30 Jan 2014
10:28:32am
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

So basically, if the stamp and its cancel are "on piece" or a cut out from an embossed card, this belongs in the non-cover sections. But if the cover is intact, or it is postal stationery, put it in the cover section.

Gotcha.

Peter

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

30 Jan 2014
12:18:15pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Peter, i'd probably put all cut squares in the country section, although a case could be made for postal stationary cut squares the same as postal stationary entires. David

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25 Feb 2014
07:46:50pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Sorry, one more question.....not too far off Peter's (on piece)

2x4 cut corners (stamps on piece), a forgotten area..... normally listed in postal history...

Ok to list these in cover category? They are not considered S-O-T-N....

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

26 Feb 2014
09:05:49am
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Michael, i wouldn't encourage them in the cover category, although the case could be made. I think placing cut squares of postal envelopes is acceptable, but i'd rather see cut squares of stamps and cancels elsewhere, either in topical and/or country of origin.

Of course, if you think i'm missing the mark, we can discuss further and you could start by showing examples that support your proposal.

David

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26 Feb 2014
08:46:17pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

"showing examples that support your proposal. "


cut 2x4 inches (technically should be 4x2).... back in the day they might be used as business/trading cards.... I've seen commercially produced albums for these
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Rhinelander
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26 Feb 2014
11:06:51pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

2x4 were the traditional way of collecting cancellations or postage meters, before most collectors nowadays prefer the full cover. In the current reorganization of auction categories, the category for postmarks was dropped from the covers category. It used to be covers and postmarks. There were not a lot of bona fide offerings of postmarks. However, some folks listed every cancelled stamp in the postmark category. That caused postmarks to be dropped as a separate named category. I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other" category, which perhaps should be better named "Everything else philatelic" instead of "Philatelic related". I will watch out for your listing, Mike. Not that I like 2x4s that much, but depending on how things go, I will get out my scissors Happy.

Arno

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ECollector
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26 Feb 2014
11:38:36pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Many years ago, I found a few thousand of these at the bottom of an auction box, I thought it was great. It started me on a path to cancel collecting.... it went from great to banging my head on my desk and laying fetal position in a corner of the room for hours on end.... but I'm getting better, the nightmares have almost stopped.


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

27 Feb 2014
08:38:25am
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Mike,

yes, seeing your post, I would argue against covers and use both "US" and "topical" but i have no objection if you follow Arno's suggestion, which would also work.

David

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27 Feb 2014
12:46:43pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

"both "US" and "topical""



Not that I've checked.... I was under the impression approvals could only be listed under one category only

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ECollector
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27 Feb 2014
12:51:12pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

" I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other""



I agree Arno, the demand has dropped off. Another problem is the shipping, the shipping cost far exceeds the value of the accumulation. I have to believe that they will sell as individual items, a few at a time..... there are a few machine cancels that are rather limited.


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ECollector
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27 Feb 2014
12:54:18pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

"only be listed under one category only"



Sorry, I'm being called away..... the department of redundancy, repetition, and multiple duplication is calling.....

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

28 Feb 2014
09:49:53am
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Mike,

you are correct; approvals can only have one category only, in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy

Auctions, on the other hand....

David

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28 Feb 2014
05:42:47pm
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

" in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy"


So David, let me sea if I can collude conclude what you're saying, just to be clear, you're saying there shill be no redundancy in the approvals but ok, alright, no problem, and/or cool to have multiple listings on the auction side?

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

01 Mar 2014
10:33:25am
re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

yes, and with all the puns and multiple entendres, Mike

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Author/Postings
Stampme

22 Jan 2014
05:10:17pm

I may have missed a thread on this subject but I was wondering about the decision to place postmarked stamps off cover into the category of Covers? I can see the consolidation with Postcards but including stamps in this category kind of irks me. Seems socked on nose stamps and the like belong under the stamp category for their particular country.
Irked but not permanently,
Bruce

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Stampme

25 Jan 2014
12:03:16pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

I can hear an echo on this thread. Hello-o-o-o-o-o-o.

No opinions? No justification arguments? No pithy comments?

Anybody out there-air-air-air-air...

Happy

Bruce

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
25 Jan 2014
01:43:16pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

I hear you, Bruce.

My presumption as a seller would be that the following items should be placed in this category: (1) "covers," meaning envelopes or wrappers which have passed through the mail stream, (2)"card," meaning postal cards or postcards, used and unused, and (3)"postmarks," meaning stamps (off paper or on piece) or cut squares with unusual or special cancels.

I looked at the 176 items (just prior to making this post) in the category on the auction board and observed the following: There were numerous "covers" listed; there were unused postcards listed (I didn't see any used ones); there were a few (very few) stamps with unusual or special cancels; and, there were many used stamps with nothing unusual whatsoever about their cancels, use, or anything else.

Whether it is right or wrong to include postmarks in this category, I cannot say. But if they are to be included, there needs to be some exercise of judgment (or common sense) on the part of the sellers who place them there.

Bobby

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
26 Jan 2014
10:27:28am

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

i would be for removing the cancels from covers and post cards. while they can be related, it is seldom used for that here, mostly featuring stamps with SON cancels.

is there anyone in the auction, as buyer and/or seller, who would bemoan the removal of cancels from covers and PCs?

David the auctioneer

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Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
28 Jan 2014
09:33:00pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

We have changed the category to include ONLY Covers and Post Cards (which are a subset of Covers anyway). Please do NOT post postmarks here anymore; instead post them with the stamp's country.

This brought little commentary, and what little that came was all for this change.

David the auctioneer

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
28 Jan 2014
10:00:24pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Hurray!!!

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"BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50- we added 10,000 new covers on January 12. If you like covers there has to be something for you!"

www.Buckacover.com
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John Macco

Astrophilatelist- Space Cover Collector
29 Jan 2014
06:58:18pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

A facet of space cover collecting is the collecting of pictorial cancels with a space theme. Where would I list them as they are covers with pictorial cancels on them? The stamps used are not as important as the pictorial cancel used.ConfusedConfused

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
29 Jan 2014
09:06:52pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

John, still in the coves section, as they ARE covers, albeit whose cancels are the important element. it's not that cancels can't be shown here, it's that we're removing cancels independent of the envelopes on which they placed.

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Stampme

29 Jan 2014
09:10:08pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Thanks for making the change after a suitable commentary time.
Bruce

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
30 Jan 2014
09:17:53am

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

my pleasure, Bruce and Roy. Glad Tim was able to execute it for us.

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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cocollectibles

30 Jan 2014
10:28:32am

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

So basically, if the stamp and its cancel are "on piece" or a cut out from an embossed card, this belongs in the non-cover sections. But if the cover is intact, or it is postal stationery, put it in the cover section.

Gotcha.

Peter

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"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
30 Jan 2014
12:18:15pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Peter, i'd probably put all cut squares in the country section, although a case could be made for postal stationary cut squares the same as postal stationary entires. David

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ECollector

25 Feb 2014
07:46:50pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Sorry, one more question.....not too far off Peter's (on piece)

2x4 cut corners (stamps on piece), a forgotten area..... normally listed in postal history...

Ok to list these in cover category? They are not considered S-O-T-N....

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
26 Feb 2014
09:05:49am

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Michael, i wouldn't encourage them in the cover category, although the case could be made. I think placing cut squares of postal envelopes is acceptable, but i'd rather see cut squares of stamps and cancels elsewhere, either in topical and/or country of origin.

Of course, if you think i'm missing the mark, we can discuss further and you could start by showing examples that support your proposal.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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ECollector

26 Feb 2014
08:46:17pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

"showing examples that support your proposal. "


cut 2x4 inches (technically should be 4x2).... back in the day they might be used as business/trading cards.... I've seen commercially produced albums for these
Image Not Found

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Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
26 Feb 2014
11:06:51pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

2x4 were the traditional way of collecting cancellations or postage meters, before most collectors nowadays prefer the full cover. In the current reorganization of auction categories, the category for postmarks was dropped from the covers category. It used to be covers and postmarks. There were not a lot of bona fide offerings of postmarks. However, some folks listed every cancelled stamp in the postmark category. That caused postmarks to be dropped as a separate named category. I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other" category, which perhaps should be better named "Everything else philatelic" instead of "Philatelic related". I will watch out for your listing, Mike. Not that I like 2x4s that much, but depending on how things go, I will get out my scissors Happy.

Arno

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ECollector

26 Feb 2014
11:38:36pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Many years ago, I found a few thousand of these at the bottom of an auction box, I thought it was great. It started me on a path to cancel collecting.... it went from great to banging my head on my desk and laying fetal position in a corner of the room for hours on end.... but I'm getting better, the nightmares have almost stopped.


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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
27 Feb 2014
08:38:25am

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Mike,

yes, seeing your post, I would argue against covers and use both "US" and "topical" but i have no objection if you follow Arno's suggestion, which would also work.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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ECollector

27 Feb 2014
12:46:43pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

"both "US" and "topical""



Not that I've checked.... I was under the impression approvals could only be listed under one category only

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ECollector

27 Feb 2014
12:51:12pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

" I don't think there is enough demand or supply to require a separate category. I'd put in the "Other""



I agree Arno, the demand has dropped off. Another problem is the shipping, the shipping cost far exceeds the value of the accumulation. I have to believe that they will sell as individual items, a few at a time..... there are a few machine cancels that are rather limited.


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ECollector

27 Feb 2014
12:54:18pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

"only be listed under one category only"



Sorry, I'm being called away..... the department of redundancy, repetition, and multiple duplication is calling.....

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
28 Feb 2014
09:49:53am

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

Mike,

you are correct; approvals can only have one category only, in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy

Auctions, on the other hand....

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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Members Picture
ECollector

28 Feb 2014
05:42:47pm

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

" in order to reduce unnecessary redundancy"


So David, let me sea if I can collude conclude what you're saying, just to be clear, you're saying there shill be no redundancy in the approvals but ok, alright, no problem, and/or cool to have multiple listings on the auction side?

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this post
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
01 Mar 2014
10:33:25am

re: Covers, Postmarks? Postcards...

yes, and with all the puns and multiple entendres, Mike

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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