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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

 

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Stampme

13 Oct 2014
10:51:26am
I'm wondering if there is any prejudice among collectors regarding envelope size.

If you were given the opportunity to buy a cover of interest, would the legal size envelope be judged as too big, causing you to wait for an offering of essentially the same cover, only letter size envelope bearing the same franking, etc.

Should someone mention rarity, let's keep all rare covers in one category: Buy.

I'm more curious about just the average cover.

If a legal size envelope is not for you, would you explain why.

Bruce
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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

13 Oct 2014
11:15:03am
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Yes, there is definitely a prejudice against legal size covers. We include them in BuckaCover.com offerings only when they have some aspect that is not likely to be easily found in smaller size covers. (and we have been doing this for 11 years now). My general rule of thumb (obviously extremely subjective) is that legal size covers must have 5x the "philatelic interest" as a smaller cover to warrant the same price.

Roy

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michael78651

13 Oct 2014
11:15:10am
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Letter sizes are easier to store.

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d1stamper
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13 Oct 2014
11:40:49am

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re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

How do people store there covers? or do you mount them on a page in you album?

Doug

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

13 Oct 2014
12:01:22pm

Auctions
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Doug, I story the bulk of my important covers in manila folders housed in banker's boxes, and organized by rate, route, service, cancel, etc.

I also have lots of covers stored in the envelope boxes (#9 and #10) in which envelopes are bought for office consumption. They tend to be loosely organized by year, sorta.

and then there's the boxes of covers that have yet to be sorted in even the loosest way.....

My smaller tied seal covers are all in those envelope boxes, organized by year; larger ones are in a large file drawer.

David

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roy
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13 Oct 2014
12:04:14pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

People who write up their covers, or use them as part of their collection/exhibit, typically mount them using appropriate transparent corners on pages in their albums (see some of my cover exhibits in the Stamporama Exhibits).

People who like to collect quantities of FDCs etc, more frequently use one of the commercial cover albums such as this Showgard style (although there are many different styles and sizes):

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Roy

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"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

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Bobstamp
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13 Oct 2014
12:28:03pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I use my covers, regardless of dimensions, as elements of web pages, exhibits, or presentation, although I am pulling back on exhibiting and presentations. So, letter size, legal size, odd size envelopes are acceptable. If a cover works for my purposes and is too big for a standard exhibit sheet (letter size or A4), I use two letter-size sheets to create a single 11" X 17" sheet, buy ready-made 11" X 17" sheets.

When it comes to using large envelopes for web page illustrations, I just size them to fit the available space on my computer, assuming that other systems will "shrink" the images as necessary. Here's an example, showing a large manilla crash cover from the 1954 collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines North Star airliner and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan:

Image Not Found

That big manila cover came to me in an interesting way: At VANPEX four or five years ago, a visitor arrived and asked a dealer if he was interested in buying the cover. He wasn't, because he generally buys wholesale-lot collections rather than individual covers, but he knows about my interest in the Moose Jaw crash and pointed me out to the visitor, who sold the cover to me for $30, a steal in my opinion. It is perhaps the most "dramatic" cover in my collection, at least in appearance.

The Moose Jaw collision was, at the time, Canada's worst aviation disaster. My web page, "North Star Falling" is one of very few web pages about the crash, and certainly the most thorough.

Back to the original topic of this thread: Storage of large and small covers is easy: Three-ring binders with one-, two-, or three-pocket Mylar stock sheets (Hagnar or Lighthouse brand). The one-pocket sheets easily store two legal-size envelopes, inserted vertically, on each side.

I also have a Lighthouse album with two-pocket stock sheets designed for legal-size envelopes.

The goal (or at least a goal) of postal history collecting is to document moments in history, not necessarily to dazzle oneself or others with gorgeous covers, although gorgeous is a nice perk if it comes along. The most "important" covers in my collection are generally plug-ugly, often with considerable damage, but I consider them to be significant because "they were there" at dramatic moments in history. They perfectly fit the definition of "artifact":

1) any object made by human beings, especially with a view to subsequent use. 2) a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage….

Bob


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philb
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13 Oct 2014
05:23:02pm

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re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

While i prefer the letter size cover for obvious reasons many of my registered covers from Argentina and Guatemala are the "legal" or #10 envelope size...i have cover albums for both sizes and was not aware of a "value difference" between the sizes !!!

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michael78651

13 Oct 2014
05:35:22pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Jeesh, Phil, after all this time, I'd think you'd know that size does matter!

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

13 Oct 2014
11:37:54pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I prefer the smaller covers (6-1/2" wide) because I can put two on each album page. I don't collect many covers, but if I saw something I wanted offered in both a small envelope (6-1/2" wide) and a #10 envelope (9-1/2" wide), the smaller one would be worth a bit more to me. Not a 5x price difference, but certainly a 50% price difference on more common covers.

Lars

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Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

31 Oct 2014
12:54:19pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I think that if a collector automatically excludes large size envelopes they miss a lot if their interest is in postal history. Legitimately used high value banknotes and early commemoratives are found almost exclusively on large covers, high rate stampless covers were usually initially folded longer than what is considered normal.

Below are some examples of other areas of interest that can be found ranging from advertising and return envelopes to interesting uses (the Australia cover had extra postage added to catch the RMS Mongolia but according to the note at bottom right didn't make it),and last a registered envelope, most of which have interesting PM cancels and/or RPO markings from small railroads... just my two cents.

Image Not Found

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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

31 Oct 2014
02:04:21pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

You are correct, Webpaper, as an history buff I have been overlooking a lot of interesting
philately by not paying sufficient attention to this segment of stamp collecting. It is colourful
informative and a picturesque field in which one's imagination can romp.

"Third Assistant Postmaster General" - escape from the daily grind by imagining what the world
was like when brass plates like that were affixed to oak-wood office doors.

Thank you for those scans, now to reminisce.

John Derry

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"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.com
Stampme

03 Nov 2014
08:40:12am
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I am always eager to post something here and watch with delight the many responses and directions the post will meander, usually with plentiful examples of, in this case, covers and more than a modicum of useful information from interesting people.

Thanks all!
Bruce

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

23 Feb 2015
09:41:41pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Image Not Found

If I was an envelope size bigot, I wouldn't have one of my favorite covers! I found this in a large lot of covers I bought a while ago. Ancient automobile history, early airmail... what's not to love?

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smauggie
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23 Feb 2015
10:31:10pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Image Not Found

This legal size envelope is what got me started in collecting postal history.
I do not discriminate.

I keep my Minnesota covers in page protectors, which are big enough for legal covers. My Canal Zone legal covers are in a legal-size cover album.



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canalzonepostalhistory.wordpress.com
Bobstamp
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23 Feb 2015
10:49:39pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Because most postal history collectors don't seem to like large covers, they seem to be priced reasonably. Not that I've actually done a survey! This monster…

Image Not Found

came to me at VANPEX a few years ago. A visitor came to the show specifically looking for a buyer, and someone pointed me out as a collector of crash covers. I don't recall what I offered — $20 or $30 probably — but it was immediately accepted, and the cover became a focal point of an exhibit called Icarus Falling -- Three aviation disasters of 1954. This particular cover was recovered from the wreckage of the collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines Northstar and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. It's so large that it requires a double-size sheet to mount it on (I used two letter-size sheets in an 11X14 sheet protector).

Bob





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smaier
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Sally

24 Feb 2015
05:21:02pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Bob,

Very interesting. What are the items on the lower left corner area? Stamps, labels, can you tell?

Thanks for sharing this,

Sally

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Bobstamp
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24 Feb 2015
06:34:38pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Although it looks like a label, it seems to be where a label was before the crash. The blue-green smears are, perhaps, the remains of water-soluble ink. Postal history can reveal a lot about the past, but not everything!

Bob

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rvangorder
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APS life member of 25+ years

17 Mar 2015
05:46:32pm
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

The #10 envelops are difficult to store.

VARIO used to issue vinyl sleeve binder pages for them but I haven't seen then in a couple of years.

I use sheet protector vinyl pages for binders to store the #10's. These are found at any office supply store: Office Depot, Office Max, Staples, etc. You can put 2 covers in each sheet (front and back).

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Author/Postings
Stampme

13 Oct 2014
10:51:26am

I'm wondering if there is any prejudice among collectors regarding envelope size.

If you were given the opportunity to buy a cover of interest, would the legal size envelope be judged as too big, causing you to wait for an offering of essentially the same cover, only letter size envelope bearing the same franking, etc.

Should someone mention rarity, let's keep all rare covers in one category: Buy.

I'm more curious about just the average cover.

If a legal size envelope is not for you, would you explain why.

Bruce

Like
Login to Like
this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
13 Oct 2014
11:15:03am

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Yes, there is definitely a prejudice against legal size covers. We include them in BuckaCover.com offerings only when they have some aspect that is not likely to be easily found in smaller size covers. (and we have been doing this for 11 years now). My general rule of thumb (obviously extremely subjective) is that legal size covers must have 5x the "philatelic interest" as a smaller cover to warrant the same price.

Roy

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this post

"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com
michael78651

13 Oct 2014
11:15:10am

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Letter sizes are easier to store.

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d1stamper

13 Oct 2014
11:40:49am

Auctions

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

How do people store there covers? or do you mount them on a page in you album?

Doug

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
13 Oct 2014
12:01:22pm

Auctions

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Doug, I story the bulk of my important covers in manila folders housed in banker's boxes, and organized by rate, route, service, cancel, etc.

I also have lots of covers stored in the envelope boxes (#9 and #10) in which envelopes are bought for office consumption. They tend to be loosely organized by year, sorta.

and then there's the boxes of covers that have yet to be sorted in even the loosest way.....

My smaller tied seal covers are all in those envelope boxes, organized by year; larger ones are in a large file drawer.

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
13 Oct 2014
12:04:14pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

People who write up their covers, or use them as part of their collection/exhibit, typically mount them using appropriate transparent corners on pages in their albums (see some of my cover exhibits in the Stamporama Exhibits).

People who like to collect quantities of FDCs etc, more frequently use one of the commercial cover albums such as this Showgard style (although there are many different styles and sizes):

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Over 7,000 new covers coming Wednesday March 20. See my homepage for details."

www.Buckacover.com
Members Picture
Bobstamp

13 Oct 2014
12:28:03pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I use my covers, regardless of dimensions, as elements of web pages, exhibits, or presentation, although I am pulling back on exhibiting and presentations. So, letter size, legal size, odd size envelopes are acceptable. If a cover works for my purposes and is too big for a standard exhibit sheet (letter size or A4), I use two letter-size sheets to create a single 11" X 17" sheet, buy ready-made 11" X 17" sheets.

When it comes to using large envelopes for web page illustrations, I just size them to fit the available space on my computer, assuming that other systems will "shrink" the images as necessary. Here's an example, showing a large manilla crash cover from the 1954 collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines North Star airliner and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan:

Image Not Found

That big manila cover came to me in an interesting way: At VANPEX four or five years ago, a visitor arrived and asked a dealer if he was interested in buying the cover. He wasn't, because he generally buys wholesale-lot collections rather than individual covers, but he knows about my interest in the Moose Jaw crash and pointed me out to the visitor, who sold the cover to me for $30, a steal in my opinion. It is perhaps the most "dramatic" cover in my collection, at least in appearance.

The Moose Jaw collision was, at the time, Canada's worst aviation disaster. My web page, "North Star Falling" is one of very few web pages about the crash, and certainly the most thorough.

Back to the original topic of this thread: Storage of large and small covers is easy: Three-ring binders with one-, two-, or three-pocket Mylar stock sheets (Hagnar or Lighthouse brand). The one-pocket sheets easily store two legal-size envelopes, inserted vertically, on each side.

I also have a Lighthouse album with two-pocket stock sheets designed for legal-size envelopes.

The goal (or at least a goal) of postal history collecting is to document moments in history, not necessarily to dazzle oneself or others with gorgeous covers, although gorgeous is a nice perk if it comes along. The most "important" covers in my collection are generally plug-ugly, often with considerable damage, but I consider them to be significant because "they were there" at dramatic moments in history. They perfectly fit the definition of "artifact":

1) any object made by human beings, especially with a view to subsequent use. 2) a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage….

Bob


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philb

13 Oct 2014
05:23:02pm

Auctions

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

While i prefer the letter size cover for obvious reasons many of my registered covers from Argentina and Guatemala are the "legal" or #10 envelope size...i have cover albums for both sizes and was not aware of a "value difference" between the sizes !!!

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"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
michael78651

13 Oct 2014
05:35:22pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Jeesh, Phil, after all this time, I'd think you'd know that size does matter!

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
13 Oct 2014
11:37:54pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I prefer the smaller covers (6-1/2" wide) because I can put two on each album page. I don't collect many covers, but if I saw something I wanted offered in both a small envelope (6-1/2" wide) and a #10 envelope (9-1/2" wide), the smaller one would be worth a bit more to me. Not a 5x price difference, but certainly a 50% price difference on more common covers.

Lars

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this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

31 Oct 2014
12:54:19pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I think that if a collector automatically excludes large size envelopes they miss a lot if their interest is in postal history. Legitimately used high value banknotes and early commemoratives are found almost exclusively on large covers, high rate stampless covers were usually initially folded longer than what is considered normal.

Below are some examples of other areas of interest that can be found ranging from advertising and return envelopes to interesting uses (the Australia cover had extra postage added to catch the RMS Mongolia but according to the note at bottom right didn't make it),and last a registered envelope, most of which have interesting PM cancels and/or RPO markings from small railroads... just my two cents.

Image Not Found

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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
31 Oct 2014
02:04:21pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

You are correct, Webpaper, as an history buff I have been overlooking a lot of interesting
philately by not paying sufficient attention to this segment of stamp collecting. It is colourful
informative and a picturesque field in which one's imagination can romp.

"Third Assistant Postmaster General" - escape from the daily grind by imagining what the world
was like when brass plates like that were affixed to oak-wood office doors.

Thank you for those scans, now to reminisce.

John Derry

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Much happiness is overlooked because it doesn't cost anything. "

parklanemews@gmail.c ...
Stampme

03 Nov 2014
08:40:12am

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

I am always eager to post something here and watch with delight the many responses and directions the post will meander, usually with plentiful examples of, in this case, covers and more than a modicum of useful information from interesting people.

Thanks all!
Bruce

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
23 Feb 2015
09:41:41pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Image Not Found

If I was an envelope size bigot, I wouldn't have one of my favorite covers! I found this in a large lot of covers I bought a while ago. Ancient automobile history, early airmail... what's not to love?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
Members Picture
smauggie

23 Feb 2015
10:31:10pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Image Not Found

This legal size envelope is what got me started in collecting postal history.
I do not discriminate.

I keep my Minnesota covers in page protectors, which are big enough for legal covers. My Canal Zone legal covers are in a legal-size cover album.



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this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...
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Bobstamp

23 Feb 2015
10:49:39pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Because most postal history collectors don't seem to like large covers, they seem to be priced reasonably. Not that I've actually done a survey! This monster…

Image Not Found

came to me at VANPEX a few years ago. A visitor came to the show specifically looking for a buyer, and someone pointed me out as a collector of crash covers. I don't recall what I offered — $20 or $30 probably — but it was immediately accepted, and the cover became a focal point of an exhibit called Icarus Falling -- Three aviation disasters of 1954. This particular cover was recovered from the wreckage of the collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines Northstar and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. It's so large that it requires a double-size sheet to mount it on (I used two letter-size sheets in an 11X14 sheet protector).

Bob





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smaier

Sally
24 Feb 2015
05:21:02pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Bob,

Very interesting. What are the items on the lower left corner area? Stamps, labels, can you tell?

Thanks for sharing this,

Sally

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Bobstamp

24 Feb 2015
06:34:38pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

Although it looks like a label, it seems to be where a label was before the crash. The blue-green smears are, perhaps, the remains of water-soluble ink. Postal history can reveal a lot about the past, but not everything!

Bob

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.ephemeraltreasur ...
Members Picture
rvangorder

APS life member of 25+ years
17 Mar 2015
05:46:32pm

re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes

The #10 envelops are difficult to store.

VARIO used to issue vinyl sleeve binder pages for them but I haven't seen then in a couple of years.

I use sheet protector vinyl pages for binders to store the #10's. These are found at any office supply store: Office Depot, Office Max, Staples, etc. You can put 2 covers in each sheet (front and back).

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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