Yes, there is definitely a prejudice against legal size covers. We include them in BuckaCover.com offerings only when they have some aspect that is not likely to be easily found in smaller size covers. (and we have been doing this for 11 years now). My general rule of thumb (obviously extremely subjective) is that legal size covers must have 5x the "philatelic interest" as a smaller cover to warrant the same price.
Roy
Letter sizes are easier to store.
Doug, I story the bulk of my important covers in manila folders housed in banker's boxes, and organized by rate, route, service, cancel, etc.
I also have lots of covers stored in the envelope boxes (#9 and #10) in which envelopes are bought for office consumption. They tend to be loosely organized by year, sorta.
and then there's the boxes of covers that have yet to be sorted in even the loosest way.....
My smaller tied seal covers are all in those envelope boxes, organized by year; larger ones are in a large file drawer.
David
People who write up their covers, or use them as part of their collection/exhibit, typically mount them using appropriate transparent corners on pages in their albums (see some of my cover exhibits in the Stamporama Exhibits).
People who like to collect quantities of FDCs etc, more frequently use one of the commercial cover albums such as this Showgard style (although there are many different styles and sizes):
Roy
I use my covers, regardless of dimensions, as elements of web pages, exhibits, or presentation, although I am pulling back on exhibiting and presentations. So, letter size, legal size, odd size envelopes are acceptable. If a cover works for my purposes and is too big for a standard exhibit sheet (letter size or A4), I use two letter-size sheets to create a single 11" X 17" sheet, buy ready-made 11" X 17" sheets.
When it comes to using large envelopes for web page illustrations, I just size them to fit the available space on my computer, assuming that other systems will "shrink" the images as necessary. Here's an example, showing a large manilla crash cover from the 1954 collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines North Star airliner and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan:
That big manila cover came to me in an interesting way: At VANPEX four or five years ago, a visitor arrived and asked a dealer if he was interested in buying the cover. He wasn't, because he generally buys wholesale-lot collections rather than individual covers, but he knows about my interest in the Moose Jaw crash and pointed me out to the visitor, who sold the cover to me for $30, a steal in my opinion. It is perhaps the most "dramatic" cover in my collection, at least in appearance.
The Moose Jaw collision was, at the time, Canada's worst aviation disaster. My web page, "North Star Falling" is one of very few web pages about the crash, and certainly the most thorough.
Back to the original topic of this thread: Storage of large and small covers is easy: Three-ring binders with one-, two-, or three-pocket Mylar stock sheets (Hagnar or Lighthouse brand). The one-pocket sheets easily store two legal-size envelopes, inserted vertically, on each side.
I also have a Lighthouse album with two-pocket stock sheets designed for legal-size envelopes.
The goal (or at least a goal) of postal history collecting is to document moments in history, not necessarily to dazzle oneself or others with gorgeous covers, although gorgeous is a nice perk if it comes along. The most "important" covers in my collection are generally plug-ugly, often with considerable damage, but I consider them to be significant because "they were there" at dramatic moments in history. They perfectly fit the definition of "artifact":
1) any object made by human beings, especially with a view to subsequent use. 2) a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage….
Bob
While i prefer the letter size cover for obvious reasons many of my registered covers from Argentina and Guatemala are the "legal" or #10 envelope size...i have cover albums for both sizes and was not aware of a "value difference" between the sizes !!!
Jeesh, Phil, after all this time, I'd think you'd know that size does matter!
I prefer the smaller covers (6-1/2" wide) because I can put two on each album page. I don't collect many covers, but if I saw something I wanted offered in both a small envelope (6-1/2" wide) and a #10 envelope (9-1/2" wide), the smaller one would be worth a bit more to me. Not a 5x price difference, but certainly a 50% price difference on more common covers.
Lars
I think that if a collector automatically excludes large size envelopes they miss a lot if their interest is in postal history. Legitimately used high value banknotes and early commemoratives are found almost exclusively on large covers, high rate stampless covers were usually initially folded longer than what is considered normal.
Below are some examples of other areas of interest that can be found ranging from advertising and return envelopes to interesting uses (the Australia cover had extra postage added to catch the RMS Mongolia but according to the note at bottom right didn't make it),and last a registered envelope, most of which have interesting PM cancels and/or RPO markings from small railroads... just my two cents.
You are correct, Webpaper, as an history buff I have been overlooking a lot of interesting
philately by not paying sufficient attention to this segment of stamp collecting. It is colourful
informative and a picturesque field in which one's imagination can romp.
"Third Assistant Postmaster General" - escape from the daily grind by imagining what the world
was like when brass plates like that were affixed to oak-wood office doors.
Thank you for those scans, now to reminisce.
John Derry
I am always eager to post something here and watch with delight the many responses and directions the post will meander, usually with plentiful examples of, in this case, covers and more than a modicum of useful information from interesting people.
Thanks all!
Bruce
If I was an envelope size bigot, I wouldn't have one of my favorite covers! I found this in a large lot of covers I bought a while ago. Ancient automobile history, early airmail... what's not to love?
This legal size envelope is what got me started in collecting postal history.
I do not discriminate.
I keep my Minnesota covers in page protectors, which are big enough for legal covers. My Canal Zone legal covers are in a legal-size cover album.
Because most postal history collectors don't seem to like large covers, they seem to be priced reasonably. Not that I've actually done a survey! This monster…
came to me at VANPEX a few years ago. A visitor came to the show specifically looking for a buyer, and someone pointed me out as a collector of crash covers. I don't recall what I offered — $20 or $30 probably — but it was immediately accepted, and the cover became a focal point of an exhibit called Icarus Falling -- Three aviation disasters of 1954. This particular cover was recovered from the wreckage of the collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines Northstar and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. It's so large that it requires a double-size sheet to mount it on (I used two letter-size sheets in an 11X14 sheet protector).
Bob
Bob,
Very interesting. What are the items on the lower left corner area? Stamps, labels, can you tell?
Thanks for sharing this,
Sally
Although it looks like a label, it seems to be where a label was before the crash. The blue-green smears are, perhaps, the remains of water-soluble ink. Postal history can reveal a lot about the past, but not everything!
Bob
The #10 envelops are difficult to store.
VARIO used to issue vinyl sleeve binder pages for them but I haven't seen then in a couple of years.
I use sheet protector vinyl pages for binders to store the #10's. These are found at any office supply store: Office Depot, Office Max, Staples, etc. You can put 2 covers in each sheet (front and back).
I'm wondering if there is any prejudice among collectors regarding envelope size.
If you were given the opportunity to buy a cover of interest, would the legal size envelope be judged as too big, causing you to wait for an offering of essentially the same cover, only letter size envelope bearing the same franking, etc.
Should someone mention rarity, let's keep all rare covers in one category: Buy.
I'm more curious about just the average cover.
If a legal size envelope is not for you, would you explain why.
Bruce
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
Yes, there is definitely a prejudice against legal size covers. We include them in BuckaCover.com offerings only when they have some aspect that is not likely to be easily found in smaller size covers. (and we have been doing this for 11 years now). My general rule of thumb (obviously extremely subjective) is that legal size covers must have 5x the "philatelic interest" as a smaller cover to warrant the same price.
Roy
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
Letter sizes are easier to store.
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
Doug, I story the bulk of my important covers in manila folders housed in banker's boxes, and organized by rate, route, service, cancel, etc.
I also have lots of covers stored in the envelope boxes (#9 and #10) in which envelopes are bought for office consumption. They tend to be loosely organized by year, sorta.
and then there's the boxes of covers that have yet to be sorted in even the loosest way.....
My smaller tied seal covers are all in those envelope boxes, organized by year; larger ones are in a large file drawer.
David
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
People who write up their covers, or use them as part of their collection/exhibit, typically mount them using appropriate transparent corners on pages in their albums (see some of my cover exhibits in the Stamporama Exhibits).
People who like to collect quantities of FDCs etc, more frequently use one of the commercial cover albums such as this Showgard style (although there are many different styles and sizes):
Roy
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
I use my covers, regardless of dimensions, as elements of web pages, exhibits, or presentation, although I am pulling back on exhibiting and presentations. So, letter size, legal size, odd size envelopes are acceptable. If a cover works for my purposes and is too big for a standard exhibit sheet (letter size or A4), I use two letter-size sheets to create a single 11" X 17" sheet, buy ready-made 11" X 17" sheets.
When it comes to using large envelopes for web page illustrations, I just size them to fit the available space on my computer, assuming that other systems will "shrink" the images as necessary. Here's an example, showing a large manilla crash cover from the 1954 collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines North Star airliner and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan:
That big manila cover came to me in an interesting way: At VANPEX four or five years ago, a visitor arrived and asked a dealer if he was interested in buying the cover. He wasn't, because he generally buys wholesale-lot collections rather than individual covers, but he knows about my interest in the Moose Jaw crash and pointed me out to the visitor, who sold the cover to me for $30, a steal in my opinion. It is perhaps the most "dramatic" cover in my collection, at least in appearance.
The Moose Jaw collision was, at the time, Canada's worst aviation disaster. My web page, "North Star Falling" is one of very few web pages about the crash, and certainly the most thorough.
Back to the original topic of this thread: Storage of large and small covers is easy: Three-ring binders with one-, two-, or three-pocket Mylar stock sheets (Hagnar or Lighthouse brand). The one-pocket sheets easily store two legal-size envelopes, inserted vertically, on each side.
I also have a Lighthouse album with two-pocket stock sheets designed for legal-size envelopes.
The goal (or at least a goal) of postal history collecting is to document moments in history, not necessarily to dazzle oneself or others with gorgeous covers, although gorgeous is a nice perk if it comes along. The most "important" covers in my collection are generally plug-ugly, often with considerable damage, but I consider them to be significant because "they were there" at dramatic moments in history. They perfectly fit the definition of "artifact":
1) any object made by human beings, especially with a view to subsequent use. 2) a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage….
Bob
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
While i prefer the letter size cover for obvious reasons many of my registered covers from Argentina and Guatemala are the "legal" or #10 envelope size...i have cover albums for both sizes and was not aware of a "value difference" between the sizes !!!
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
Jeesh, Phil, after all this time, I'd think you'd know that size does matter!
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
I prefer the smaller covers (6-1/2" wide) because I can put two on each album page. I don't collect many covers, but if I saw something I wanted offered in both a small envelope (6-1/2" wide) and a #10 envelope (9-1/2" wide), the smaller one would be worth a bit more to me. Not a 5x price difference, but certainly a 50% price difference on more common covers.
Lars
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
I think that if a collector automatically excludes large size envelopes they miss a lot if their interest is in postal history. Legitimately used high value banknotes and early commemoratives are found almost exclusively on large covers, high rate stampless covers were usually initially folded longer than what is considered normal.
Below are some examples of other areas of interest that can be found ranging from advertising and return envelopes to interesting uses (the Australia cover had extra postage added to catch the RMS Mongolia but according to the note at bottom right didn't make it),and last a registered envelope, most of which have interesting PM cancels and/or RPO markings from small railroads... just my two cents.
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
You are correct, Webpaper, as an history buff I have been overlooking a lot of interesting
philately by not paying sufficient attention to this segment of stamp collecting. It is colourful
informative and a picturesque field in which one's imagination can romp.
"Third Assistant Postmaster General" - escape from the daily grind by imagining what the world
was like when brass plates like that were affixed to oak-wood office doors.
Thank you for those scans, now to reminisce.
John Derry
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
I am always eager to post something here and watch with delight the many responses and directions the post will meander, usually with plentiful examples of, in this case, covers and more than a modicum of useful information from interesting people.
Thanks all!
Bruce
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
If I was an envelope size bigot, I wouldn't have one of my favorite covers! I found this in a large lot of covers I bought a while ago. Ancient automobile history, early airmail... what's not to love?
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
This legal size envelope is what got me started in collecting postal history.
I do not discriminate.
I keep my Minnesota covers in page protectors, which are big enough for legal covers. My Canal Zone legal covers are in a legal-size cover album.
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
Because most postal history collectors don't seem to like large covers, they seem to be priced reasonably. Not that I've actually done a survey! This monster…
came to me at VANPEX a few years ago. A visitor came to the show specifically looking for a buyer, and someone pointed me out as a collector of crash covers. I don't recall what I offered — $20 or $30 probably — but it was immediately accepted, and the cover became a focal point of an exhibit called Icarus Falling -- Three aviation disasters of 1954. This particular cover was recovered from the wreckage of the collision of a Trans-Canada Airlines Northstar and an RCAF Harvard trainer over Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. It's so large that it requires a double-size sheet to mount it on (I used two letter-size sheets in an 11X14 sheet protector).
Bob
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
Bob,
Very interesting. What are the items on the lower left corner area? Stamps, labels, can you tell?
Thanks for sharing this,
Sally
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
Although it looks like a label, it seems to be where a label was before the crash. The blue-green smears are, perhaps, the remains of water-soluble ink. Postal history can reveal a lot about the past, but not everything!
Bob
re: Legal Size Envelopes versus Letter Size Envelopes
The #10 envelops are difficult to store.
VARIO used to issue vinyl sleeve binder pages for them but I haven't seen then in a couple of years.
I use sheet protector vinyl pages for binders to store the #10's. These are found at any office supply store: Office Depot, Office Max, Staples, etc. You can put 2 covers in each sheet (front and back).