Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Also - if you pencil on the backs of stamps, kindly mention this in your terms so that those of us who don't like pencil marks have a heads up.
Thank you!
8 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:36:24pm
Excerpt from the Auction Board rules:
"4) a. All lots should include, at a minimum, descriptions of any defects or other characteristics outside the norm. This includes fakes, forgeries, and counterfeits, as well as reprints, repairs, and damages. Damages that need to be described include thins, creases, pulled perfs, scuffs, tears, stains, etc. Please do not rely on scans to communicate problems; problems must ALSO be described in the lot description. Lots with multiple stamps need not have this detail, unless the high value of the lot is subject to one or more of these problems."
If a stamp is damaged on the reverse, and it is not mentioned or shown in the scan, my interpretation would be that the Seller should refund all monies paid (including shipping costs both ways). As for pencil marks, I do not consider light pencil marks on the back of used stamps to constitute damage, but many collectors do; therefore I believe that should also be mentioned if present.
My pet peeve is "lightly hinged" when the removed hinge took a portion of the original gum when removed! "lightly hinged" means that the stamp has full original gum and while there may be evidence of previous hinging, it is slight and minimally affects the stamp.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I agree with this. As for pencil marks, I have seen markings that effectively embossed the stamps. I also want to know if a stamp has markings on the back as I won't buy those stamps.
I also don't like stamps being called "never hinged" when there is writing and other damage on the stamp.
Login to Like
this post
I have virtually given up trying to describe hinging and now state "please expect hinge remnants; some may be light hinged, some never hinged."
I do clarify that stamps will not have a hinge "bulge" - that is one of my pet peeves and the one thing that makes purchasing mint stamps problematic. I soak all mint stamps with bulges and see if they will press out. I'd rather sell, or have in my collection, a fresh looking no gum than a stamp with an obvious hinge bulge - and I have purchased many such stamps from both dealers and some of the top auction houses. And like everyone else, I probably miss a few in sorting and lotting once in awhile.
When I was doing shows back in the 80's there was a "Stamp Doctor" who made the rounds. He sold "very close to NH sets" and would also take your hinged stamps and bring them back to the next show in "very close to NH" condition. I do have to admit that some of his work was so good that you had to catch the light just right to tell that they had been previously hinged.
My two cents for the morning - time for that second cup of coffee.
Login to Like
this post
Actually none of the stamps I purchased were mint, so hinged gum wasn't one of the faults I've gotten recently. Another wonderful reason to collect used!
The problems I encountered were thins, tears and creases that were not easily visible from the front, but glaringly obvious from the back.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
One thing to consider is that the easy and no cost process of selling on Stamporama permits collectors who otherwise would not sell their stamps a venue to do just that. It is a learning process for them to get to understand that buyers expect a proper description of the stamps being offered. Some of the new "collector sellers" may not have learned how to do this properly. "It was good enough for me, so it's good enough for the next collector", for example, is usually not true when it comes to stamps with faults, even with "penny stamps". New sellers taking a little bit of time to learn how to identify faults, describe, price and sell stamps will make a big difference in how the stamps being offered for sale are accepted (or not) by the buyers.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
"It is a learning process for them to get to understand that buyers expect a proper description of the stamps being offered. Some of the new "collector sellers" may not have learned how to do this properly."
Absolutely true! I was hoping my post would be read by newer sellers, too. However, I don't expect detailed descriptions of faults for cheapie 10c approval stamps, I feel they shouldn't be there in the first place! Simply separate the damaged from the good ones and put those on a different page or donate them to the holocaust project which accepts damaged stamps. If I see a lot of faults on the first page of an approval book I generally don't look any further. I figure if there are that many obvious faults, then there will be a whole bunch more damage that I can't see, so why bother?
I know I am not alone. A bunch of raggedy stamps doesn't entice too many buyers unless they are bargain space fillers and labeled as such. I've had several buyers tell me that they buy small amounts from new sellers to see the quality up close. If they are junky, they don't buy again. If they are good, their next order is much larger. So wake up sellers! You're losing buyers if you list damaged material. Stamporama folks aren't dummies - they are smart cookies who know that the quality determines the value of the stamp.
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I agree that descriptions of the back are a very good thing, but, I am curious about something. In the rules on auctions I seem to recall that you are allowed 2 images, but I never, or almost never, see more than one. If 2 are allowed, then why don't sellers post images of both front and back of items for sale. Of course, for most items it would be a waste of time, but if it is something selling for more than a couple of bucks, why not?
Login to Like
this post
I totally agree - my experience is that in assembling stamps for sale from various sources (old pages, lightly remaindered albums, old packets and glassines, old dealer stock, etc.) the initial cut will be that somewhere around 10 to 20 per cent of the stamps can be sold "as found" if you are lucky.
Around 10 to 20 per cent can be salvaged by soaking (soapy water) and pressing. The remainder I give away or put in a box for the local auction house - those badly damaged are destroyed if they are common stamps. There are those who say to never destroy a stamp but realistically why keep some of these in circulation to let yet another person be disappointed in a purchase - 2c carmine baby banknotes, 3 cent green banknotes, even US #65's and Great Britain #33's used to be sold by the shoebox full and included better colors and numbers on the 33's.
When you go through that 20 to 40 percent remaining after the initial cut you will find another 10 to 20 per cent of that is actually damaged to some extent....
The above is intended to paint a picture for collector turned dealers to understand that not all of their duplicates are going to end up in approval books.
And now a question - what do we do with old collections - they have almost all been remaindered at this point in time so much of what is left is "damaged" - ranging from round corners to junk, and unless the stamps are removed from the pages it is not possible to determine the extent of damage.
Here are a couple of examples of an French collection I tried to sell on Ebay. I grouped pages into lots with $500 to $750 catalog value and ended up trying to start them at 3 per cent of catalog value with no takers (one lot sold). There is no way of telling condition but I X'd out a few (uncounted in CV) and I would guess that if they were removed from the pages there would not be many F or better copies. On the other hand they are incredible reference material - I decided that I would keep them rather than give them away. They have come in handy more than a few times.
But what would I do with them if I decided not to keep them - it would be a shame to sell them individually as fillers because of their usefulness as color references... ideas welcome.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
As a newbie to selling on the Approvals, may I weigh in with my two cents. In putting together my stamps I try to exclude anything I would not put in my own collection. I try and pick the best of my duplicates bearing in mind perf damage, creases, tears, hinge marks, thins etc. Cleanliness and overall appearance also come into the equation.
This week in sending an order I noticed that one stamp had a thin that I had not previously seen. I found another copy of the stamp and included it with the order. Sometimes we do not always see faults on first glance.
I would hope that buyers let me know if items are not to satisfaction and give me the opportunity to rectify matters.
Certainly, when sorting and soaking stamps any obvious damaged items go straight in the bin, I do not want to spend time and effort on such stamps.
To include scans of the reverse would produce more work and not be worthwhile for stamps selling for mere cents.
On auction lots where the stamps would be more individual or sets then both sides could be shown as prices to be expected would be greater.
We would take shoddy goods back to the retailer/shop and expect a replacement or at least our costs returned and I am happy to replace or refund if my items do not meet the buyers standards, but I need to be advised.
Vic
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
07:28:42am
" ... Another wonderful reason to collect used! ..."
Thank you Theresa !
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks Theresa and Carol! I am one of those "collector turning seller" types, so this discussion is very timely. I hadn't thought of keeping unwanted stamps for a color reference. Color charts only go so far. Maybe there is a future StampoRama project in there somewhere... an on-line color reference with the numerous shades of Emerald Green, Light Green, and Bright Green, etc.. And I just added some of those very same French issues to my Scott International album this past week -- I could have used your pages as a guide...
Thanks again!
Steve
Login to Like
this post
Online color charts won't work all that good, because monitor settings can vary and the color displays will be different.
A while back I posted some pictures of a reference book that I put together for watermarks, design types, color, dies, etc. I don't know where that is in the depths of the discussion boards. Someone may want to try to dig that out to give our newer members a look at what I did. If it is not available, I can put up some pictures again.
Login to Like
this post
Michael,
Would this be the reference you mentioned?
http://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=6602#40772
Sounds like a fantastic resource! Just the idea of building personalized handbooks is terrific.
Thanks,
Steve
Login to Like
this post
Steve, yes, that's it. Thanks for finding it!
Login to Like
this post
It is not just shades that require a reference collection.
I am into used GB Machins in a big way and once one gets beyond the very basics there are numerous variations - and while enlargements in catalogues are useful at first glance - nothing beats real stamp comparisons once one has made the original i.d.
I refer to particularly flat versus curved head bases on pre-decimal issues, high versus low head positions on early decimals,thick and thin value numerals and floating value positions. They can also be used for normal phosphor bands compared to A-phosphor , and Flourecent(phosphorised) paper versus Advanced coated paper. I have a pocket-size stockbook with all these in (some are damaged - but if only used for i.d. it doesn't matter). Quite often phosphor paper differences can be identified with the naked eye when you have control copies, which saves time and electricity bills compared with using the lamp every time - off course with a new aquisition you should always use the lamp to check that your original "diagnosis" is correct.
Malcolm
Login to Like
this post
12:24:39pm
Topic: "The BACK of the stamp!" please open new threads for other topics.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
The introduction to the Scott catalogs has a section on stamp conditions. Included with the pictures are images of the backs of stamps from Mint, never hinged all the way to no gum.
Login to Like
this post
I have to admit that I have been guilty in the past of sending out a stamp that may have had some damage in the back that was not acceptable to a buyer. I ALWAYS offer full refunds on anything I sell that is not acceptable and in most cases I do not even want the stamp returned to me. I sometimes miss the condition on Used stamps and 90% of my customers are fine with it as well. (Of course I never sell torn or creased stamps - most of the time it is a thin from a bad hinged job). I am careful on Mint stamps to classify them as Never Hinged vs Hinged - however I try not to classify anything as Mint - if the back is bad - I would just sell it as a Used copy - if at all. Sometimes I just miss the mistakes when I am dealing with so many at once.
Login to Like
this post
Would sellers PLEASE kindly describe damage on the backs of stamps that cannot be seen from the front? At least label them "faulty" or "space filler" if you are not sure how to describe the faults. Scans only show one side after all.
Also - if you pencil on the backs of stamps, kindly mention this in your terms so that those of us who don't like pencil marks have a heads up.
Thank you!
8 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
19 Dec 2014
09:36:24pm
re: The BACK of the stamp!
Excerpt from the Auction Board rules:
"4) a. All lots should include, at a minimum, descriptions of any defects or other characteristics outside the norm. This includes fakes, forgeries, and counterfeits, as well as reprints, repairs, and damages. Damages that need to be described include thins, creases, pulled perfs, scuffs, tears, stains, etc. Please do not rely on scans to communicate problems; problems must ALSO be described in the lot description. Lots with multiple stamps need not have this detail, unless the high value of the lot is subject to one or more of these problems."
If a stamp is damaged on the reverse, and it is not mentioned or shown in the scan, my interpretation would be that the Seller should refund all monies paid (including shipping costs both ways). As for pencil marks, I do not consider light pencil marks on the back of used stamps to constitute damage, but many collectors do; therefore I believe that should also be mentioned if present.
My pet peeve is "lightly hinged" when the removed hinge took a portion of the original gum when removed! "lightly hinged" means that the stamp has full original gum and while there may be evidence of previous hinging, it is slight and minimally affects the stamp.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:55:44pm
re: The BACK of the stamp!
I agree with this. As for pencil marks, I have seen markings that effectively embossed the stamps. I also want to know if a stamp has markings on the back as I won't buy those stamps.
I also don't like stamps being called "never hinged" when there is writing and other damage on the stamp.
Login to Like
this post
08:54:52am
Auctions - Approvals
re: The BACK of the stamp!
I have virtually given up trying to describe hinging and now state "please expect hinge remnants; some may be light hinged, some never hinged."
I do clarify that stamps will not have a hinge "bulge" - that is one of my pet peeves and the one thing that makes purchasing mint stamps problematic. I soak all mint stamps with bulges and see if they will press out. I'd rather sell, or have in my collection, a fresh looking no gum than a stamp with an obvious hinge bulge - and I have purchased many such stamps from both dealers and some of the top auction houses. And like everyone else, I probably miss a few in sorting and lotting once in awhile.
When I was doing shows back in the 80's there was a "Stamp Doctor" who made the rounds. He sold "very close to NH sets" and would also take your hinged stamps and bring them back to the next show in "very close to NH" condition. I do have to admit that some of his work was so good that you had to catch the light just right to tell that they had been previously hinged.
My two cents for the morning - time for that second cup of coffee.
Login to Like
this post
re: The BACK of the stamp!
Actually none of the stamps I purchased were mint, so hinged gum wasn't one of the faults I've gotten recently. Another wonderful reason to collect used!
The problems I encountered were thins, tears and creases that were not easily visible from the front, but glaringly obvious from the back.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
03:00:37pm
re: The BACK of the stamp!
One thing to consider is that the easy and no cost process of selling on Stamporama permits collectors who otherwise would not sell their stamps a venue to do just that. It is a learning process for them to get to understand that buyers expect a proper description of the stamps being offered. Some of the new "collector sellers" may not have learned how to do this properly. "It was good enough for me, so it's good enough for the next collector", for example, is usually not true when it comes to stamps with faults, even with "penny stamps". New sellers taking a little bit of time to learn how to identify faults, describe, price and sell stamps will make a big difference in how the stamps being offered for sale are accepted (or not) by the buyers.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: The BACK of the stamp!
"It is a learning process for them to get to understand that buyers expect a proper description of the stamps being offered. Some of the new "collector sellers" may not have learned how to do this properly."
Absolutely true! I was hoping my post would be read by newer sellers, too. However, I don't expect detailed descriptions of faults for cheapie 10c approval stamps, I feel they shouldn't be there in the first place! Simply separate the damaged from the good ones and put those on a different page or donate them to the holocaust project which accepts damaged stamps. If I see a lot of faults on the first page of an approval book I generally don't look any further. I figure if there are that many obvious faults, then there will be a whole bunch more damage that I can't see, so why bother?
I know I am not alone. A bunch of raggedy stamps doesn't entice too many buyers unless they are bargain space fillers and labeled as such. I've had several buyers tell me that they buy small amounts from new sellers to see the quality up close. If they are junky, they don't buy again. If they are good, their next order is much larger. So wake up sellers! You're losing buyers if you list damaged material. Stamporama folks aren't dummies - they are smart cookies who know that the quality determines the value of the stamp.
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: The BACK of the stamp!
I agree that descriptions of the back are a very good thing, but, I am curious about something. In the rules on auctions I seem to recall that you are allowed 2 images, but I never, or almost never, see more than one. If 2 are allowed, then why don't sellers post images of both front and back of items for sale. Of course, for most items it would be a waste of time, but if it is something selling for more than a couple of bucks, why not?
Login to Like
this post
05:28:47pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: The BACK of the stamp!
I totally agree - my experience is that in assembling stamps for sale from various sources (old pages, lightly remaindered albums, old packets and glassines, old dealer stock, etc.) the initial cut will be that somewhere around 10 to 20 per cent of the stamps can be sold "as found" if you are lucky.
Around 10 to 20 per cent can be salvaged by soaking (soapy water) and pressing. The remainder I give away or put in a box for the local auction house - those badly damaged are destroyed if they are common stamps. There are those who say to never destroy a stamp but realistically why keep some of these in circulation to let yet another person be disappointed in a purchase - 2c carmine baby banknotes, 3 cent green banknotes, even US #65's and Great Britain #33's used to be sold by the shoebox full and included better colors and numbers on the 33's.
When you go through that 20 to 40 percent remaining after the initial cut you will find another 10 to 20 per cent of that is actually damaged to some extent....
The above is intended to paint a picture for collector turned dealers to understand that not all of their duplicates are going to end up in approval books.
And now a question - what do we do with old collections - they have almost all been remaindered at this point in time so much of what is left is "damaged" - ranging from round corners to junk, and unless the stamps are removed from the pages it is not possible to determine the extent of damage.
Here are a couple of examples of an French collection I tried to sell on Ebay. I grouped pages into lots with $500 to $750 catalog value and ended up trying to start them at 3 per cent of catalog value with no takers (one lot sold). There is no way of telling condition but I X'd out a few (uncounted in CV) and I would guess that if they were removed from the pages there would not be many F or better copies. On the other hand they are incredible reference material - I decided that I would keep them rather than give them away. They have come in handy more than a few times.
But what would I do with them if I decided not to keep them - it would be a shame to sell them individually as fillers because of their usefulness as color references... ideas welcome.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Approvals
re: The BACK of the stamp!
As a newbie to selling on the Approvals, may I weigh in with my two cents. In putting together my stamps I try to exclude anything I would not put in my own collection. I try and pick the best of my duplicates bearing in mind perf damage, creases, tears, hinge marks, thins etc. Cleanliness and overall appearance also come into the equation.
This week in sending an order I noticed that one stamp had a thin that I had not previously seen. I found another copy of the stamp and included it with the order. Sometimes we do not always see faults on first glance.
I would hope that buyers let me know if items are not to satisfaction and give me the opportunity to rectify matters.
Certainly, when sorting and soaking stamps any obvious damaged items go straight in the bin, I do not want to spend time and effort on such stamps.
To include scans of the reverse would produce more work and not be worthwhile for stamps selling for mere cents.
On auction lots where the stamps would be more individual or sets then both sides could be shown as prices to be expected would be greater.
We would take shoddy goods back to the retailer/shop and expect a replacement or at least our costs returned and I am happy to replace or refund if my items do not meet the buyers standards, but I need to be advised.
Vic
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Dec 2014
07:28:42am
re: The BACK of the stamp!
" ... Another wonderful reason to collect used! ..."
Thank you Theresa !
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: The BACK of the stamp!
Thanks Theresa and Carol! I am one of those "collector turning seller" types, so this discussion is very timely. I hadn't thought of keeping unwanted stamps for a color reference. Color charts only go so far. Maybe there is a future StampoRama project in there somewhere... an on-line color reference with the numerous shades of Emerald Green, Light Green, and Bright Green, etc.. And I just added some of those very same French issues to my Scott International album this past week -- I could have used your pages as a guide... Thanks again!
Steve
Login to Like
this post
07:39:28pm
re: The BACK of the stamp!
Online color charts won't work all that good, because monitor settings can vary and the color displays will be different.
A while back I posted some pictures of a reference book that I put together for watermarks, design types, color, dies, etc. I don't know where that is in the depths of the discussion boards. Someone may want to try to dig that out to give our newer members a look at what I did. If it is not available, I can put up some pictures again.
Login to Like
this post
re: The BACK of the stamp!
Michael,
Would this be the reference you mentioned?
http://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=6602#40772
Sounds like a fantastic resource! Just the idea of building personalized handbooks is terrific.
Thanks,
Steve
Login to Like
this post
10:19:43am
re: The BACK of the stamp!
Steve, yes, that's it. Thanks for finding it!
Login to Like
this post
10:37:52am
re: The BACK of the stamp!
It is not just shades that require a reference collection.
I am into used GB Machins in a big way and once one gets beyond the very basics there are numerous variations - and while enlargements in catalogues are useful at first glance - nothing beats real stamp comparisons once one has made the original i.d.
I refer to particularly flat versus curved head bases on pre-decimal issues, high versus low head positions on early decimals,thick and thin value numerals and floating value positions. They can also be used for normal phosphor bands compared to A-phosphor , and Flourecent(phosphorised) paper versus Advanced coated paper. I have a pocket-size stockbook with all these in (some are damaged - but if only used for i.d. it doesn't matter). Quite often phosphor paper differences can be identified with the naked eye when you have control copies, which saves time and electricity bills compared with using the lamp every time - off course with a new aquisition you should always use the lamp to check that your original "diagnosis" is correct.
Malcolm
Login to Like
this post
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
31 Dec 2014
12:24:39pm
re: The BACK of the stamp!
Topic: "The BACK of the stamp!" please open new threads for other topics.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
12:52:14pm
re: The BACK of the stamp!
The introduction to the Scott catalogs has a section on stamp conditions. Included with the pictures are images of the backs of stamps from Mint, never hinged all the way to no gum.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: The BACK of the stamp!
I have to admit that I have been guilty in the past of sending out a stamp that may have had some damage in the back that was not acceptable to a buyer. I ALWAYS offer full refunds on anything I sell that is not acceptable and in most cases I do not even want the stamp returned to me. I sometimes miss the condition on Used stamps and 90% of my customers are fine with it as well. (Of course I never sell torn or creased stamps - most of the time it is a thin from a bad hinged job). I am careful on Mint stamps to classify them as Never Hinged vs Hinged - however I try not to classify anything as Mint - if the back is bad - I would just sell it as a Used copy - if at all. Sometimes I just miss the mistakes when I am dealing with so many at once.
Login to Like
this post