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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Ebay warning or expert advice requested

 

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

31 Dec 2014
12:33:28am

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I would like to alert those interested in Middle East Stamps, that I have become extremely suspicious of ebay seller rakh1958 ( 319 for feedback score ) for selling repeatedly extremely rare and hard to come by overprinted stamps that appear to be counterfeit (to me)
Gives an address in the UAE and also a Monaco location?
Latest items for example are the port Fouad o/p Egypt stamps. Looking closely to the o/p they seem uneven and out of position. If he offered them once, I would not issue this caution, but they seem to appear almost weekly in his auctions, a highly improbable likelihood of legitimate material. The non-o/p material is readily available.
His feedback is almost all positive except for 1 negative (in French it says: ne répond pas IMITATION déjà proposée dans lot 301011612335) that accused the seller of re-listing an obviously counterfeit item....one more reason to be concerned.
I am going to try to see if ebay will do anything, but so far all I have is suspicion, grounded in logic and observation. And no, I will not buy any o/p stamps from him.
Any one else wishes to confirm my observations?
rrr...
one more thing. His stamps are selling at 10% of catalog. Given the rarity of the legitimate stamps, this is another red flag.
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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

31 Dec 2014
09:57:13am
re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of our SOR community. To reach an even wider audience, and for the sake of supporting a peer-level effort to combat philatelic fraud on eBay, you can also report this at Stamp Smarter (stampsmarter.com).

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

31 Dec 2014
09:59:45am
re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

I see that my post came in behind Angliophile's. Ditto!

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GeoStamper
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Steve

31 Dec 2014
01:16:27pm
re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Thanks Chris and Doug for the link to www.stampsmarter.com. I didn't know that site existed, but it seems they provide good advice, as does Michael in the preceding post!

Steve

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"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

31 Dec 2014
02:02:08pm

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re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Thanks you all. To illustrate what I am referring to, here are a few ebay pictures of the stamps I find suspect. Note the varying position and imperfections of the o/p (port foad on the Egypt stamps in particular). Just yesterday, there were many dozens "suspects" in the ebay sale.
I wish I had saved the photos in higher resolution. I also wish ebay provided a link to the people who bought them, as I would love to have a conversation with them.
Trying to navigate the unfriendly waters of ebay is a royal pain, and Michael, you are right, they have never acted on my prior reports.

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This is just a small sample of many of the stamps that attracted my attention, mixed with perfectly good stamps as well, a technique I have seen used before. I am still looking for good cerified (and cheap..LOL) Egypt Port Fouad stamps.

rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

31 Dec 2014
04:31:06pm

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re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

By the way, Scott clearly indicates the existence of counterfeits, for the Egypt Port Fouad o/p as well as for the Ile Rouad first 3 stamps. (Most of these, catalog at $350 and more each).
Unfortunately, there were also other expensive stamps in this latest batch, not signaled in Scott, but to me clearly with doubtful overprints. I would never touch any without a certificate, unless I had a high level of confidence in the source.
Do you know of any (marginal) seller who ever marks the back of the stamp, as required by law, with 'copy' "replica' or 'o/p not original'?
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

31 Dec 2014
05:29:04pm
re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

" ... Do you know of any (marginal) seller who ever marks the back of the stamp, as required by law, with 'copy' "replica' or 'o/p not original'? ..."

What law is that ?

Of course it would constitute fraud to sell something described as genuine, or even possibly un-described, but implying it is genuine by price, but marking it on the back ?

I know that German philatelic experts mark the reverse, either by rule or law, and the UN has passed a slew of commercial code laws, that appear to be ignored at will.


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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

31 Dec 2014
05:57:01pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Not certain whether or not it is law.

That said, there are a number of stamps that have been certified bogus by one "expert" or another that later get a clean certificate. Whether it is additional information that has come to light, or whether it is an honest disagreement, if the stamp were marked that mark is forever.

I think it is absurd that ANY one person, or group, can forever certify something as fraudulent - in most instances. Obvious forgeries seldom make it to the certification stage - it's usually only the better ones.

If you do attend stamp shows it doesn't hurt to ask a dealer, especially one who deals in the area covered by the stamp in question, whether or not the stamp is worth getting an opinion on - most are happy to take a quick look to see if it is obviously a fake or not. Most will not tell you it's genuine, just that it might be (understandably). When I did shows I learned a lot just by always having a few stamps to ask other dealers about - I remember one high catalog set from Poland (I think) I showed a dealer in the next booth over and he said it was " a good set, second printing" just at a glance - never hurts to ask.




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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

31 Dec 2014
07:04:58pm

Approvals
re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

I think it is the law in many countries. Some are pretty strict. Some require wording in the description as well as permanent marking. Others don't require or enforce the marking.

Here is ebays "law":
For advice or information from other stamps enthusiasts, visit eBay's Stamp Collectors discussion board.

Allowed
Original stamps
Replica stamps that are clearly marked

Not allowed
Counterfeit stamps
Equipment for making counterfeit stamps

Replica stamps
Listings for replica stamps must follow these guidelines:
The item must be clearly marked as a replica in a way that can't be removed.
The listing must include a picture that clearly shows this mark.
The listing must clearly state in the title and item description that the item is a replica.

Not that ebay really enforces it.
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
31 Dec 2014
12:33:28am

Approvals

I would like to alert those interested in Middle East Stamps, that I have become extremely suspicious of ebay seller rakh1958 ( 319 for feedback score ) for selling repeatedly extremely rare and hard to come by overprinted stamps that appear to be counterfeit (to me)
Gives an address in the UAE and also a Monaco location?
Latest items for example are the port Fouad o/p Egypt stamps. Looking closely to the o/p they seem uneven and out of position. If he offered them once, I would not issue this caution, but they seem to appear almost weekly in his auctions, a highly improbable likelihood of legitimate material. The non-o/p material is readily available.
His feedback is almost all positive except for 1 negative (in French it says: ne répond pas IMITATION déjà proposée dans lot 301011612335) that accused the seller of re-listing an obviously counterfeit item....one more reason to be concerned.
I am going to try to see if ebay will do anything, but so far all I have is suspicion, grounded in logic and observation. And no, I will not buy any o/p stamps from him.
Any one else wishes to confirm my observations?
rrr...
one more thing. His stamps are selling at 10% of catalog. Given the rarity of the legitimate stamps, this is another red flag.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
31 Dec 2014
09:57:13am

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of our SOR community. To reach an even wider audience, and for the sake of supporting a peer-level effort to combat philatelic fraud on eBay, you can also report this at Stamp Smarter (stampsmarter.com).

Like
Login to Like
this post

"All hobbies are absurd to those on the outside, and a joy to those within."
Members Picture
DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
31 Dec 2014
09:59:45am

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

I see that my post came in behind Angliophile's. Ditto!

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"All hobbies are absurd to those on the outside, and a joy to those within."
Members Picture
GeoStamper

Steve
31 Dec 2014
01:16:27pm

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Thanks Chris and Doug for the link to www.stampsmarter.com. I didn't know that site existed, but it seems they provide good advice, as does Michael in the preceding post!

Steve

Like
Login to Like
this post

"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
31 Dec 2014
02:02:08pm

Approvals

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Thanks you all. To illustrate what I am referring to, here are a few ebay pictures of the stamps I find suspect. Note the varying position and imperfections of the o/p (port foad on the Egypt stamps in particular). Just yesterday, there were many dozens "suspects" in the ebay sale.
I wish I had saved the photos in higher resolution. I also wish ebay provided a link to the people who bought them, as I would love to have a conversation with them.
Trying to navigate the unfriendly waters of ebay is a royal pain, and Michael, you are right, they have never acted on my prior reports.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

This is just a small sample of many of the stamps that attracted my attention, mixed with perfectly good stamps as well, a technique I have seen used before. I am still looking for good cerified (and cheap..LOL) Egypt Port Fouad stamps.

rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
31 Dec 2014
04:31:06pm

Approvals

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

By the way, Scott clearly indicates the existence of counterfeits, for the Egypt Port Fouad o/p as well as for the Ile Rouad first 3 stamps. (Most of these, catalog at $350 and more each).
Unfortunately, there were also other expensive stamps in this latest batch, not signaled in Scott, but to me clearly with doubtful overprints. I would never touch any without a certificate, unless I had a high level of confidence in the source.
Do you know of any (marginal) seller who ever marks the back of the stamp, as required by law, with 'copy' "replica' or 'o/p not original'?
rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
31 Dec 2014
05:29:04pm

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

" ... Do you know of any (marginal) seller who ever marks the back of the stamp, as required by law, with 'copy' "replica' or 'o/p not original'? ..."

What law is that ?

Of course it would constitute fraud to sell something described as genuine, or even possibly un-described, but implying it is genuine by price, but marking it on the back ?

I know that German philatelic experts mark the reverse, either by rule or law, and the UN has passed a slew of commercial code laws, that appear to be ignored at will.


Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

31 Dec 2014
05:57:01pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

Not certain whether or not it is law.

That said, there are a number of stamps that have been certified bogus by one "expert" or another that later get a clean certificate. Whether it is additional information that has come to light, or whether it is an honest disagreement, if the stamp were marked that mark is forever.

I think it is absurd that ANY one person, or group, can forever certify something as fraudulent - in most instances. Obvious forgeries seldom make it to the certification stage - it's usually only the better ones.

If you do attend stamp shows it doesn't hurt to ask a dealer, especially one who deals in the area covered by the stamp in question, whether or not the stamp is worth getting an opinion on - most are happy to take a quick look to see if it is obviously a fake or not. Most will not tell you it's genuine, just that it might be (understandably). When I did shows I learned a lot just by always having a few stamps to ask other dealers about - I remember one high catalog set from Poland (I think) I showed a dealer in the next booth over and he said it was " a good set, second printing" just at a glance - never hurts to ask.




Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
31 Dec 2014
07:04:58pm

Approvals

re: Ebay warning or expert advice requested

I think it is the law in many countries. Some are pretty strict. Some require wording in the description as well as permanent marking. Others don't require or enforce the marking.

Here is ebays "law":
For advice or information from other stamps enthusiasts, visit eBay's Stamp Collectors discussion board.

Allowed
Original stamps
Replica stamps that are clearly marked

Not allowed
Counterfeit stamps
Equipment for making counterfeit stamps

Replica stamps
Listings for replica stamps must follow these guidelines:
The item must be clearly marked as a replica in a way that can't be removed.
The listing must include a picture that clearly shows this mark.
The listing must clearly state in the title and item description that the item is a replica.

Not that ebay really enforces it.
rrr...

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

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