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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

 

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carabop

13 Jan 2015
07:50:00am
It was mentioned that military would be able to send letters free. I was just wondering if anyone could explain this a bit more for US military? Was there stamps actually affixed to the envelopes or how was this process done?
Thanks Carolee
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

13 Jan 2015
08:37:50am

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re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Carolee,

it's not a blanket privilege, but one reserved to war-time or occupation troops, and usually overseas, but not always.

Starting in the first war, but not immediately upon embarkation, service members sent overseas could mark the cover "free" or "on active service" or something similar indicating that cover could travel free. That was sufficient.

In the second war, some labels were printed saying "free" or something similar; they weren't necessary, but aided in recognition. free franking was reserved for first class (surface); other classes required postage, as did other services. Some of the Stateside bases also enjoyed free-franking, but i'm not clear on the requirements.

if there's a specific question I'm not answering, ask

David

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carabop

13 Jan 2015
08:45:59am
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

I was just curious how it all worked and if there was actually stamps affixed at some point. My thinking being - some organization paid for the military folks to have postage. Just a curiosity thing.

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

13 Jan 2015
10:08:59am
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Carolee

Keep in mind that until (I believe 1971) a certain time the same "...organization {that}paid for the military folks to have postage.." and the one that employed our military was one and the same (the federal government). So the use of a label (e.g. a postage stamp) was unnecessary to satisfy bureaucratic niceties.

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malcolm197

13 Jan 2015
10:31:13am
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

I think most nations permit free mail priviledges to military in combat zones ( however that may be defined ). Interestingly UK personnel were not offered this during the "troubles" in Northern Ireland for purely political reasons - as this was most certainly a combat zone. However the operations were not considered military but as "aid to the civil power" - and for the same reason military gallantry medals could not be awarded.

However to return to free postage - it is an acknowledged fact that the two most important factors in maintaining morale are regular mail and an efficient Field Medical Service, and so free postage is seen as an important aid to the former.Usually only basic letter rates are free -upgrades and parcel post are generally but not universally charged.

In peacetime UK domestic rates are available to servicemen and their families to and from their postings, even when they are stationed overseas - presumably as the base they occupy is considered UK soil as far as mail is concerned. It would be interesting to know whether the RAF fighter pilot serving with a USAF fighter squadron on an exchange posting is considered to be RAF or USAF personnel for mail purposes - presumably no facilities are available for an individual "not connected" to the UK military mail system.

Malcolm

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amsd
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13 Jan 2015
10:50:42am

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re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

in an earlier posting, i had asked if service men during Spanish American War and later Philippine Insurrection were accorded free franking. Still don't know; I seem to always see stamps on the covers.

In the American Civil War, federal soldiers were allowed to send mail without postage, but the recipient would pay the tab (I see very few of these covers).

David

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Bobstamp
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13 Jan 2015
02:36:50pm
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

David enquired about post-free letters from soldiers serving in the Philippines during the Philippine Insurrection. I have five such covers, none of which were sent postage free. Three of them have stamps, and two of them that don't have postage stamps were assessed postage due, indicated by affixed postage-due stamps. I have to say that requiring a soldier to pay postage just adds insult to injury. One of my distant cousins served in the Philippines during that period; he contracted TB, was sent to the army's tubercular hospital at Fort Bayard, New Mexico, where he eventually died.

David is correct about free postage for soldiers posting from military camps in the U.S. during the Second World War. I have a large correspondence from a soldier to his parents in Kansas City. The first is from boot camp, followed by 20 or 30 from other military posts in the U.S. Then there are one or two from Europe. All of covers which originated from within the military were postage free, except for one which went airmail; the soldier, urgently in need of a small loan from his parents, says in his letter that he decided to spring for a six-cents airmail stamp because of the urgency. There is one more letter from the soldier, posted from a POW camp in Germany; turns out he had been captured on the first day of the Battle of the Bulge. He was eventually released.

Included in that correspondence are several V-Mails from his parents, who were hoping to get information about their son, who had stopped writing to them; it wasn't known immediately that he had been captured. One of the letters was sent to their son's commanding officer; it was returned in a special V-Mail envelope which had a window allowing the original return address to be used as the address for delivery. The letter is inscribed with this reason for the return: "Killed in Action". None of the V-Mail envelopes required postage.

As I mentioned several months ago in another thread, after I was wounded in Vietnam and evacuated to the U.S. Naval Hospital in San Diego, I continued to have the privilege of sending letters without postage from the hospital, and I have several of those covers, which my mother and sister saved.

Bob

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

13 Jan 2015
02:47:00pm
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

There was also the requirement that enlisted men have their commanding officer ( Or designated mail officer.) sign the envelope during some of our national adventures.

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Bobstamp
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13 Jan 2015
02:58:06pm
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Here's an example of a WWI Canadian cover sent postage free from France; on arrival in Canada, it had postage applied over the field post office postmark:

Image Not Found

Several years ago, a member of the rec.collecting.stamps.discuss Usenet newsgroup posted this explanation for this strategy:

"This explanation is from The Major E.R. Toop Collection of Canadian Military Postal History:

"Mail to Canada from overseas was usually suitably marked'On Active Service' or 'O.A.S.' and went free. Upon its arrival, Canadian postage was affixed at the following cities:

“Halifax, St John, N.B., Quebec, Montreal, Kingston, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton and London (Ontario), Winnipeg, Medicine Hat & Nelson R.P.O., Calgary & Vancouver R.P.O., Vancouver and Victoria.

“Until July 28, 1917, it was necessary for these exchange offices to affix Canadian postage stamps to all stampless letters arriving from overseas forces, and to cancel the stamps. An agreement was reached with Great Britain on July 20, 1917 and put into effect July 28, 1917, permitting 'FREE' franking of soldiers' mail. Stamped and cancelled covers are known dated after that effective date."

Bob

P.S. An aside: this cover, sent by a Canadian officer in Flanders to his wife in Victoria, included this poppy, some heather branches, and a four-leaf clover; the letter includes an interesting description of the officers visit to the Front:

Image Not Found



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Bobstamp
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13 Jan 2015
04:50:52pm
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Cdj1122 said,

"There was also the requirement that enlisted men have their commanding officer ( Or designated mail officer.) sign the envelope during some of our national adventures."



My understanding is that all letters from enlisted men had to be censored. Officers, however, could "self-censor" by signing the cover; such letters would not be censored at the unit level, but would be censored higher up the chain of command. "Privilege covers" were made for just this purpose; here's an example:

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

After the war, with continuing shortages of paper in Great Britain, privilege envelopes were overprinted to obliterate the instruction panel so they could be used for both official and civilian mail. A suggestion was added to re-use the envelope by sealing it with a (wartime) economy label.

Image Not Found

I have only one postwar privilege envelope that was re-used, but, as was common throughout the war, people weren't thinking very clearly about re-use of envelopes. The overprint on the following cover makes it impossible to address the envelope itself, and requires the use of an economy label. Thus, it represents a waste of paper rather than economical use (a fact which I failed to know in my original write-up!).

Image Not Found

Bob




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carabop

13 Jan 2015
11:10:57pm
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Thank you all this was very interesting.

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Bujutsu
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14 Jan 2015
12:08:17pm
re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Greetings All

Regarding the Canadian military in WW I and WW II we should also keep in mind that once a soldier from the front went 'on leave', he was required to pay postage on letters and postcards home out of pocket. But, once back in 'active duty', he got the 'free mail' privilege again. (As a rule, though, there were some exceptions)

I have different correspondences from 4 or 5 different families on covers / cards in my collection that reveal this.

Chimo

Bujutsu

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Author/Postings
carabop

13 Jan 2015
07:50:00am

It was mentioned that military would be able to send letters free. I was just wondering if anyone could explain this a bit more for US military? Was there stamps actually affixed to the envelopes or how was this process done?
Thanks Carolee

Like
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Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
13 Jan 2015
08:37:50am

Auctions

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Carolee,

it's not a blanket privilege, but one reserved to war-time or occupation troops, and usually overseas, but not always.

Starting in the first war, but not immediately upon embarkation, service members sent overseas could mark the cover "free" or "on active service" or something similar indicating that cover could travel free. That was sufficient.

In the second war, some labels were printed saying "free" or something similar; they weren't necessary, but aided in recognition. free franking was reserved for first class (surface); other classes required postage, as did other services. Some of the Stateside bases also enjoyed free-franking, but i'm not clear on the requirements.

if there's a specific question I'm not answering, ask

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
carabop

13 Jan 2015
08:45:59am

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

I was just curious how it all worked and if there was actually stamps affixed at some point. My thinking being - some organization paid for the military folks to have postage. Just a curiosity thing.

Like
Login to Like
this post

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
13 Jan 2015
10:08:59am

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Carolee

Keep in mind that until (I believe 1971) a certain time the same "...organization {that}paid for the military folks to have postage.." and the one that employed our military was one and the same (the federal government). So the use of a label (e.g. a postage stamp) was unnecessary to satisfy bureaucratic niceties.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
malcolm197

13 Jan 2015
10:31:13am

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

I think most nations permit free mail priviledges to military in combat zones ( however that may be defined ). Interestingly UK personnel were not offered this during the "troubles" in Northern Ireland for purely political reasons - as this was most certainly a combat zone. However the operations were not considered military but as "aid to the civil power" - and for the same reason military gallantry medals could not be awarded.

However to return to free postage - it is an acknowledged fact that the two most important factors in maintaining morale are regular mail and an efficient Field Medical Service, and so free postage is seen as an important aid to the former.Usually only basic letter rates are free -upgrades and parcel post are generally but not universally charged.

In peacetime UK domestic rates are available to servicemen and their families to and from their postings, even when they are stationed overseas - presumably as the base they occupy is considered UK soil as far as mail is concerned. It would be interesting to know whether the RAF fighter pilot serving with a USAF fighter squadron on an exchange posting is considered to be RAF or USAF personnel for mail purposes - presumably no facilities are available for an individual "not connected" to the UK military mail system.

Malcolm

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
13 Jan 2015
10:50:42am

Auctions

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

in an earlier posting, i had asked if service men during Spanish American War and later Philippine Insurrection were accorded free franking. Still don't know; I seem to always see stamps on the covers.

In the American Civil War, federal soldiers were allowed to send mail without postage, but the recipient would pay the tab (I see very few of these covers).

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
Bobstamp

13 Jan 2015
02:36:50pm

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

David enquired about post-free letters from soldiers serving in the Philippines during the Philippine Insurrection. I have five such covers, none of which were sent postage free. Three of them have stamps, and two of them that don't have postage stamps were assessed postage due, indicated by affixed postage-due stamps. I have to say that requiring a soldier to pay postage just adds insult to injury. One of my distant cousins served in the Philippines during that period; he contracted TB, was sent to the army's tubercular hospital at Fort Bayard, New Mexico, where he eventually died.

David is correct about free postage for soldiers posting from military camps in the U.S. during the Second World War. I have a large correspondence from a soldier to his parents in Kansas City. The first is from boot camp, followed by 20 or 30 from other military posts in the U.S. Then there are one or two from Europe. All of covers which originated from within the military were postage free, except for one which went airmail; the soldier, urgently in need of a small loan from his parents, says in his letter that he decided to spring for a six-cents airmail stamp because of the urgency. There is one more letter from the soldier, posted from a POW camp in Germany; turns out he had been captured on the first day of the Battle of the Bulge. He was eventually released.

Included in that correspondence are several V-Mails from his parents, who were hoping to get information about their son, who had stopped writing to them; it wasn't known immediately that he had been captured. One of the letters was sent to their son's commanding officer; it was returned in a special V-Mail envelope which had a window allowing the original return address to be used as the address for delivery. The letter is inscribed with this reason for the return: "Killed in Action". None of the V-Mail envelopes required postage.

As I mentioned several months ago in another thread, after I was wounded in Vietnam and evacuated to the U.S. Naval Hospital in San Diego, I continued to have the privilege of sending letters without postage from the hospital, and I have several of those covers, which my mother and sister saved.

Bob

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Jan 2015
02:47:00pm

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

There was also the requirement that enlisted men have their commanding officer ( Or designated mail officer.) sign the envelope during some of our national adventures.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
Bobstamp

13 Jan 2015
02:58:06pm

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Here's an example of a WWI Canadian cover sent postage free from France; on arrival in Canada, it had postage applied over the field post office postmark:

Image Not Found

Several years ago, a member of the rec.collecting.stamps.discuss Usenet newsgroup posted this explanation for this strategy:

"This explanation is from The Major E.R. Toop Collection of Canadian Military Postal History:

"Mail to Canada from overseas was usually suitably marked'On Active Service' or 'O.A.S.' and went free. Upon its arrival, Canadian postage was affixed at the following cities:

“Halifax, St John, N.B., Quebec, Montreal, Kingston, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton and London (Ontario), Winnipeg, Medicine Hat & Nelson R.P.O., Calgary & Vancouver R.P.O., Vancouver and Victoria.

“Until July 28, 1917, it was necessary for these exchange offices to affix Canadian postage stamps to all stampless letters arriving from overseas forces, and to cancel the stamps. An agreement was reached with Great Britain on July 20, 1917 and put into effect July 28, 1917, permitting 'FREE' franking of soldiers' mail. Stamped and cancelled covers are known dated after that effective date."

Bob

P.S. An aside: this cover, sent by a Canadian officer in Flanders to his wife in Victoria, included this poppy, some heather branches, and a four-leaf clover; the letter includes an interesting description of the officers visit to the Front:

Image Not Found



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Bobstamp

13 Jan 2015
04:50:52pm

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Cdj1122 said,

"There was also the requirement that enlisted men have their commanding officer ( Or designated mail officer.) sign the envelope during some of our national adventures."



My understanding is that all letters from enlisted men had to be censored. Officers, however, could "self-censor" by signing the cover; such letters would not be censored at the unit level, but would be censored higher up the chain of command. "Privilege covers" were made for just this purpose; here's an example:

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

After the war, with continuing shortages of paper in Great Britain, privilege envelopes were overprinted to obliterate the instruction panel so they could be used for both official and civilian mail. A suggestion was added to re-use the envelope by sealing it with a (wartime) economy label.

Image Not Found

I have only one postwar privilege envelope that was re-used, but, as was common throughout the war, people weren't thinking very clearly about re-use of envelopes. The overprint on the following cover makes it impossible to address the envelope itself, and requires the use of an economy label. Thus, it represents a waste of paper rather than economical use (a fact which I failed to know in my original write-up!).

Image Not Found

Bob




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carabop

13 Jan 2015
11:10:57pm

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Thank you all this was very interesting.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Bujutsu

14 Jan 2015
12:08:17pm

re: A question in reguards to something mentioned in - Note to self: Covers aren't necessarily unique!

Greetings All

Regarding the Canadian military in WW I and WW II we should also keep in mind that once a soldier from the front went 'on leave', he was required to pay postage on letters and postcards home out of pocket. But, once back in 'active duty', he got the 'free mail' privilege again. (As a rule, though, there were some exceptions)

I have different correspondences from 4 or 5 different families on covers / cards in my collection that reveal this.

Chimo

Bujutsu

Like
Login to Like
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