Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Your item likely would have represented an unauthorized use of a two-cent stamp to uprate a one-cent cover, and even if it had been authorized it would only have had postage equal to two cents — half of two cents plus one. Only rarely, when stamps of given denominations aren't available, do postal administrations allow bisects. Here's one that was authorized, early in the German occupation of the Channel Islands, when stocks of British stamps began to run out:
Bob
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I'm going for a different explanation, in the absence of concrete data on the date of usage: a damaged 2c stamp used as a 2c stamp to equal the 3c prevailing rate in place for most of America's postal history.
and was free-franking not yet in place in January 42?
here is how the Marines came to be in Iceland in the first place: First Marine Brigade had been slated for the Azores, but were later routed to Iceland to allow the 5th Division time to prepare for garrison duty to relieve the existing British contingent. Without the Marines, thinking was the US would need to send the only combat-ready division, the 1st, which would have ruined other plans for it. http://www.history.army.mil/books/70-7_03.htm
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-02-20 08:47:53)
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Interesting, it's definitely not an authorized bi-sect......
Davids post makes me think it might be a coded message from sender to addressee.
Can you scan the whole cover?
(edit) I sent this then reread the thread..... whole cover is not available?
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Nope, don't buy it, David. I see a purposely cut stamp, not a damaged stamp. The Aeronautics Conference stamp looks to be cut cleanly, at a nearly perfect right angle, in virtually the exact centre of the stamp.
While two cents wasn't a fortune in 1928, I doubt that anyone would have left two pennies on the sidewalk if he had happened to see them. Saving a penny on a letter? Heck, I've pinched pennies in my lifetime. Given the huge volume of mail at any time in the 20th Century, I can easily see an unauthorized bisect slipping through the mail. We've all received or at least seen modern mail with underpaid postage, unpaid postage due, and some even franked with labels rather than stamps. And some with no postage at all!
The page about the Marines from my Battle of the Atlantic exhibit, which mentions free-franking:
Bob
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"Nope, don't buy it, David. I see a purposely cut stamp, not a damaged stamp. The Aeronautics Conference stamp looks to be cut cleanly, at a nearly perfect right angle, in virtually the exact centre of the stamp.
"
I agree with Bob, that stamp was cut on purpose and military did have free franking.....
I still like the idea of a coded message. Saying that, I have seen stamp dealers and cover makers do unusual things to use up damaged stamps. No matter how bad the money sqeeze
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leaving the bisect conversation alone, and staying only with free-frank, Bob indicates free franking is available in June (well after this Marine's letter); Michael, are you indicating it was already available?
and I pick up pennies, which I would need to do 49 times in order to mail a letter, so I understand the value of stooping only once
David
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"leaving the bisect conversation alone, and staying only with free-frank, Bob indicates free franking is available in June (well after this Marine's letter); Michael, are you indicating it was already available?
and I pick up pennies, which I would need to do 49 times in order to mail a letter, so I understand the value of stooping only once
David "
What am I missing, I didn't read anything about a letter.... and isn't the original post about a cut corner, not the cover?
I won't argue the dates, I don't have that info at my fingertips.... free franking comes and goes on a whim. I have "soldiers free" mail from WWI....
Getting back to the stamp....To get info by censors to their loved ones, usually innocent info, guys would add cachets with clues that no one other than the recipient would catch. Also developed little catch phrases that were worked out in advance or as a correspondence dragged on. That airmail stamp is cut right at the end of December, coincedence, maybe...
We're missing a lot of contex, the full letter and full cover could add volumes.
Mike
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The US government also had special panes of stamps sent overseas..... I'll get too this stuff eventually..
I've been laid up for awhile and still have limited mobility.... I can't get to all my books upstairs.... and its becoming increasingly harder to keep info in the old noggin
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Michael,
there are several concurrent threads, naturally. One is the 2c red bisect on 1c postal stationary; another is Bob's Marine's letter from Iceland, early 1942, which illustrates the 3c rate in effect when Bob was born and the Marine wrote. the latter is what drove my curiosity to see if it should have been covered by a free-franking privilege.
David
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"Michael,
there are several concurrent threads, naturally. One is the 2c red bisect on 1c postal stationary; another is Bob's Marine's letter from Iceland, early 1942, which illustrates the 3c rate in effect when Bob was born and the Marine wrote. the latter is what drove my curiosity to see if it should have been covered by a free-franking privilege.
David "
Sorry David, I did go back and look at Bob's post.... then got up.
I wouldn't argue against that date. I should have detailed info in an official manual or something.... just can't get to it for a while. Free franking comes and goes, seems like on a whim.....
Something else is nagging at me..... There were panes of stamps made up just for the military, I don't remember if it was a part stipend or just a convenient way of making things harder than they need to be.
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David,
The Act of Congress of March 27, 1942 is what authorized free franking privilages for overseas personal..... I don't have the date of implementation, at this time.
I believe this act was also the authorization for "V Mail"....
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thanks Michael for the free franking date
as to stamps especially for military, that was first war, and there were large booklets of stamps (called AEF booklets now). it was short-lived.
there were also free frank labels, marked "free", they were merely a convenience as a pencil notation did just fine
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"as to stamps especially for military, that was first war, and there were large booklets of stamps (called AEF booklets now). it was short-lived.
there were also free frank labels, marked "free", they were merely a convenience as a pencil notation did just fine"
Thank you David.... sort of remember
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Going back to the history of US troops in Iceland, I am not sure that the need for troops to be withdrawn closer to home was the whole reason for the UK handing the Iceland garrison duty to the US - after all we had a garrison in the Faeroe Islands - and they were not withdrawn. I think that the primary reason was that the US was more politically acceptable to the Icelanders than the UK - as of course the UK had actually done the invasion - an act of aggression technically if not necessarily actually, whereas the US was a "peaceful" takeover. The Faeroes was a different situation- it was legally a part of Denmark - at war with Germany, and therefore the British invasion could be considered more "legitimate"there. This is not to say that the British forces were not more useful elsewhere - but I think there is a bit more geopolitics than military necessity involved- and perhaps the official line was a bit more palatable in the current propaganda climate.
Malcolm
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I remember three-cent stamps! The 3-cent Prexy, picturing Thomas Jefferson, was current when I was born in 1943, and remained current until 10 days before my 11 birthday, in 1954. Here's a cover franked with one of them; it was posted by a Marine from Iceland early in the Second World War.
Your item likely would have represented an unauthorized use of a two-cent stamp to uprate a one-cent cover, and even if it had been authorized it would only have had postage equal to two cents — half of two cents plus one. Only rarely, when stamps of given denominations aren't available, do postal administrations allow bisects. Here's one that was authorized, early in the German occupation of the Channel Islands, when stocks of British stamps began to run out:
Bob
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re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
I'm going for a different explanation, in the absence of concrete data on the date of usage: a damaged 2c stamp used as a 2c stamp to equal the 3c prevailing rate in place for most of America's postal history.
and was free-franking not yet in place in January 42?
here is how the Marines came to be in Iceland in the first place: First Marine Brigade had been slated for the Azores, but were later routed to Iceland to allow the 5th Division time to prepare for garrison duty to relieve the existing British contingent. Without the Marines, thinking was the US would need to send the only combat-ready division, the 1st, which would have ruined other plans for it. http://www.history.army.mil/books/70-7_03.htm
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-02-20 08:47:53)
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re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
Interesting, it's definitely not an authorized bi-sect......
Davids post makes me think it might be a coded message from sender to addressee.
Can you scan the whole cover?
(edit) I sent this then reread the thread..... whole cover is not available?
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re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
Nope, don't buy it, David. I see a purposely cut stamp, not a damaged stamp. The Aeronautics Conference stamp looks to be cut cleanly, at a nearly perfect right angle, in virtually the exact centre of the stamp.
While two cents wasn't a fortune in 1928, I doubt that anyone would have left two pennies on the sidewalk if he had happened to see them. Saving a penny on a letter? Heck, I've pinched pennies in my lifetime. Given the huge volume of mail at any time in the 20th Century, I can easily see an unauthorized bisect slipping through the mail. We've all received or at least seen modern mail with underpaid postage, unpaid postage due, and some even franked with labels rather than stamps. And some with no postage at all!
The page about the Marines from my Battle of the Atlantic exhibit, which mentions free-franking:
Bob
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this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
"Nope, don't buy it, David. I see a purposely cut stamp, not a damaged stamp. The Aeronautics Conference stamp looks to be cut cleanly, at a nearly perfect right angle, in virtually the exact centre of the stamp.
"
I agree with Bob, that stamp was cut on purpose and military did have free franking.....
I still like the idea of a coded message. Saying that, I have seen stamp dealers and cover makers do unusual things to use up damaged stamps. No matter how bad the money sqeeze
Login to Like
this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
leaving the bisect conversation alone, and staying only with free-frank, Bob indicates free franking is available in June (well after this Marine's letter); Michael, are you indicating it was already available?
and I pick up pennies, which I would need to do 49 times in order to mail a letter, so I understand the value of stooping only once
David
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this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
"leaving the bisect conversation alone, and staying only with free-frank, Bob indicates free franking is available in June (well after this Marine's letter); Michael, are you indicating it was already available?
and I pick up pennies, which I would need to do 49 times in order to mail a letter, so I understand the value of stooping only once
David "
What am I missing, I didn't read anything about a letter.... and isn't the original post about a cut corner, not the cover?
I won't argue the dates, I don't have that info at my fingertips.... free franking comes and goes on a whim. I have "soldiers free" mail from WWI....
Getting back to the stamp....To get info by censors to their loved ones, usually innocent info, guys would add cachets with clues that no one other than the recipient would catch. Also developed little catch phrases that were worked out in advance or as a correspondence dragged on. That airmail stamp is cut right at the end of December, coincedence, maybe...
We're missing a lot of contex, the full letter and full cover could add volumes.
Mike
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this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
The US government also had special panes of stamps sent overseas..... I'll get too this stuff eventually..
I've been laid up for awhile and still have limited mobility.... I can't get to all my books upstairs.... and its becoming increasingly harder to keep info in the old noggin
Login to Like
this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
Michael,
there are several concurrent threads, naturally. One is the 2c red bisect on 1c postal stationary; another is Bob's Marine's letter from Iceland, early 1942, which illustrates the 3c rate in effect when Bob was born and the Marine wrote. the latter is what drove my curiosity to see if it should have been covered by a free-franking privilege.
David
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this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
"Michael,
there are several concurrent threads, naturally. One is the 2c red bisect on 1c postal stationary; another is Bob's Marine's letter from Iceland, early 1942, which illustrates the 3c rate in effect when Bob was born and the Marine wrote. the latter is what drove my curiosity to see if it should have been covered by a free-franking privilege.
David "
Sorry David, I did go back and look at Bob's post.... then got up.
I wouldn't argue against that date. I should have detailed info in an official manual or something.... just can't get to it for a while. Free franking comes and goes, seems like on a whim.....
Something else is nagging at me..... There were panes of stamps made up just for the military, I don't remember if it was a part stipend or just a convenient way of making things harder than they need to be.
Login to Like
this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
David,
The Act of Congress of March 27, 1942 is what authorized free franking privilages for overseas personal..... I don't have the date of implementation, at this time.
I believe this act was also the authorization for "V Mail"....
Login to Like
this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
thanks Michael for the free franking date
as to stamps especially for military, that was first war, and there were large booklets of stamps (called AEF booklets now). it was short-lived.
there were also free frank labels, marked "free", they were merely a convenience as a pencil notation did just fine
Login to Like
this post
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
"as to stamps especially for military, that was first war, and there were large booklets of stamps (called AEF booklets now). it was short-lived.
there were also free frank labels, marked "free", they were merely a convenience as a pencil notation did just fine"
Thank you David.... sort of remember
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07:56:02am
re: No Idea if this is real or a fake?
Going back to the history of US troops in Iceland, I am not sure that the need for troops to be withdrawn closer to home was the whole reason for the UK handing the Iceland garrison duty to the US - after all we had a garrison in the Faeroe Islands - and they were not withdrawn. I think that the primary reason was that the US was more politically acceptable to the Icelanders than the UK - as of course the UK had actually done the invasion - an act of aggression technically if not necessarily actually, whereas the US was a "peaceful" takeover. The Faeroes was a different situation- it was legally a part of Denmark - at war with Germany, and therefore the British invasion could be considered more "legitimate"there. This is not to say that the British forces were not more useful elsewhere - but I think there is a bit more geopolitics than military necessity involved- and perhaps the official line was a bit more palatable in the current propaganda climate.
Malcolm
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