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What we collect!
What we collect!


General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Barcode City! Bah!

 

Author
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Guthrum
Members Picture


26 Feb 2015
07:23:09am
Here is a MS from Slovenia which I have just bought:

Image Not Found

It commemorates the 70th anniversary of the barbed-wire blockade of Ljubljana in 1942 (an event I do not know about, and which I hope to research more fully in the near future). The design is pleasing, with that barbed wire echoed and re-echoed and the city mapped and photographed.

And then...

I am totally dismayed (that should be cap up: TOTALLY DISMAYED) at what Slovenian Post (I assume) have done with this product. At Wits EndMoral bi biti sram!

(That was supposed to go in italics, but instead this emoji showed up! Ha ha!)

I hope Google Translate have got the Slovenian correct for "You should be ashamed!"

Ne dajo črtne kode na vaše izdelke poštnih. Do not put barcodes on your postal products!

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Jansimon
Members Picture


collector, seller, MT member

26 Feb 2015
08:21:11am

Approvals
re: Barcode City! Bah!

There are lots of postal administrations doing this, Slovenia is not alone.

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BeeSee
Members Picture


Langley, BC

26 Feb 2015
09:26:27am
re: Barcode City! Bah!

Canada puts barcodes on all it's souvenir sheets, and in the margins of the regular sheets.

Image Not Found

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"I love used classic stamps. APS, RPSC, BNAPS"

brcStamps.com
GeoStamper
Members Picture


Steve

26 Feb 2015
09:43:36am
re: Barcode City! Bah!

If the post offices around the world continue with bar codes or QR codes, they might approach something with younger collectors like plate blocks did for me back in the 1970s and 80s. Governments might alter the bar codes slightly to account for print runs or geographic regions or whatever they want. We might then see 10 or 20 different catalog entries for each stamp. Maybe this is already the case?

While I don't have any personal interest, and I would be tempted to trim or cover the bar codes, it might be one way our hobby evolves. What does the collector of 2040 or 2050 have in his/her album? That otherwise beautiful gem from Slovenia ending in 004699 just might become a rarity!

-Steve

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"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
USAFE7

01 Mar 2015
08:15:16pm
re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi All

I suspect there is a reasonable reason for the Barcodes.

Does anybody have a reasonable reason why the Barcodes are used and the purpose for them?

DAVID THOMPSON
MSGT/USAF/RETIRED

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

01 Mar 2015
10:34:18pm

Auctions
re: Barcode City! Bah!

they also automatically adjust stock, lowering inventory each sale....

on envelopes in the mailstream, they represent the ZIP + 4 + 2 and carrier rte so the mail can be moved along its merry way.

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
Guthrum
Members Picture


02 Mar 2015
05:12:14am
re: Barcode City! Bah!

I'm sure barcodes are useful, but they are not lovely. My point was that the barcode detracted from the design of the sheet, and made clear that the point of the sheet was less to commemorate an event in the country's past than to facilitate the business of selling a product.

I take the well-made point that variations in barcodes might ultimately form a distinction between products that would attract collectors, but then the collection would be one of retail products, rather than examples of a country's reflection of its own identity.

It is the latter which interests me as a collector of stamps and miniature sheets, although I realise that philatelic business has driven the hobby almost from its beginnings.

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malcolm197

02 Mar 2015
01:46:25pm
re: Barcode City! Bah!

Barcodes are essential in any modern stock control,stock management, and financial control environment. I spent a number of years in retail distributor logistics, and without SKU barcodes it would have been stock management chaos. Every time a bar code is scanned it modifies the outlet inventory,reorders the item from the warehouse, and stores the information to reorder the warehouse stock from the source, as well as ensuring that the correct product is "picked". Additionally it can be a tool to reconcile the sales record with the actual revenue and the inventory, thus acting as a revenue protection operation.

Without this essential management tool post offices worldwide would be even less efficient than they are presently. Of course like all management tools it only works if used correctly and the staff are sufficiently proficient in its use.

Malcolm

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USAFE7

02 Mar 2015
02:22:40pm
re: Barcode City! Bah!

@malcolm197

Very interesting information and well received by one such as myself.

Do you think there is any collector interest in these?

Like everything else where humans are involved mistakes intended or untended sometimes happens, have the use of barcodes resulted in any mistakes you know of.

Again, many thanks for wonderful information.

DAVID THOMPSON
MSGT/USAF/RETIRED

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likes this post.
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TuskenRaider
Members Picture


02 Mar 2015
03:54:12pm
re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi Everyone;

@ David;

You have a very good point about errors. Some bar codes don't include the numbers just the bars.
If the bars are without numbers, they are considered not human-readable. Mistakes of non
human-readable would be next to impossible to spot, unless the computer software catches it.

However even with that long series of numbers they would be hard to detect. If USPS can't catch
an upside-down airplane, they would not catch a simple number switch.

@ Everyone;

This is a sample of a SKU (Stock Keeping Unit), also known as UPC (Universal Product Code);

0 63491 07564 3

The first number '0' indicates what the number is used to do. Sometimes they are only used for
internal controls to facilitate identification of parts, nuts, bolts, and screws etc. A different number
in the first digit location makes the bar code into a POS code (Point of Sale) used by your retail
stores to ring up your purchase.

The next five numbers are assigned to the supplier, like General Foods, PepsiCo, Frito-Lay and
thousands of others.

The last group of five is the actual product identification like Frito Lay corn chips plain, or corn
chips with Bar-B-Que flavor. Also package sizes are a different number. The grocer will take his
computer software and add a retail price to each number, so the cashier can't charge too much or
too little.

The last digit, in this case is a '3'. A math algorithm, will look at all the numbers before the last one
(x xxxxx xxxxx ?), and perform a detailed calculation, and come up a number. This is called the
check bit. And is used to catch errors.

However if USPS uses the wrong number before the check bit is computed, the software will not
know there is an error. Postal clerks would not have a clue, and probably the stamp printer,
and QC checkers would be just as clueless. Once the sheets are sent out they will only be found
out by collectors most likely, and then only likely if the collectors are savvy about bar codes.
Frankly that would exclude yours truly as I know next to nothing on this topic.

Now that I have bored everyone to tears, I'm going to take a nap, and you all should do the same,
if you haven't nodded off already!

Veggin' out in my cave....
TuskenRaider

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malcolm197

03 Mar 2015
03:41:53am
re: Barcode City! Bah!

I wouldn't think that a collector would be interested in these. The same barcode should be allocated to every one of a particular "line" of product, and is unique to that product.

One spectacular error which can occur is when the numerical stockcode does not correspond with the bar code - and this does happen through a printing error. This means that where you do not have remote computer ordering, a telephone or written order by a real person at the retail end, means they get either no product or the wrong product altogether ( e.g a childs car seat instead of a maternity dress!! ).

A wrongly programmed system can mean that a scan only makes one operation instead of all - e.g. a "picker" scanning an item on despatch to the retailer adds the item to the retailers stock but does not remove it from the warehouse stock or add it to the "bank" for reordering. This is quite rare, and is easily picked up when the warehouse runs out of stock-and is also easily corrected.

Of course the main cause of problems is human error. One common one is "double-scanning".It is easy through lack of coordination or concentration to double click the scanner and remove two items from the inventory instead of one. In the scheme of things that is irrelevant except at audit time. There are millions of individual transactions and statistically the number of errors and financial repercussions are miniscule.

I was not involved in the computer side in my work, but either in picking, replenishment,or the manual side of stock integrity- but of course had to know a little about the "non-technical" part of the computer operation - as the whole business was "system-driven".

Malcolm

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2010ccg

03 Mar 2015
07:24:27am
re: Barcode City! Bah!

Interesting read KEN
and no I didn`t nod off.....I often wondered about bar codes....and what the numbers were all about....thanks ... just another tidbit to add to my postal history information...I wonder which country was the first to use bar codes and when....??
Cheryl

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USAFE7

03 Mar 2015
09:52:26am
re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi All

All this technical stuff is in itself interesting, but sometimes I get lost, so I always reread again and again.

I have no idea what the future will bring, but expect barcodes will find a place in stamp collecting, to what degree who knows.

I also think barcodes have a place in current postal usages, and there for become the postal history of the future.

Will be interesting to see what comes out of all this if I live long enough to see it.

Enjoy those barcodes!

DAVID THOMPSON
MSGT/USAF/RETIRED
0-17462059-AF

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TuskenRaider
Members Picture


03 Mar 2015
05:12:30pm
re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi Everyone;

It just yesterday occurred to me that if some collectors want to look for errors in the printing
of these codes, there is an easy way to do so.

I have on my computer, version 8 of CorelDraw (a Canadian Software Company), and included
in the install is "Barcode Wizard". After you select from 18 different standards, they ask you for
the numbers. For UPC (12 digit bar code) for instance they have you type the 11 digits, and
then the software gives you the check digit.

You are then asked a series of questions that you fill into fields that have to do with ratio of
thick bars to thin bars, how many DPI to print at, the height of the bars, and then will print
the barcode out or save it as a jpg file to the clipboard.

If you do not have access to this Barcode Wizard, there are probably many versions offered
as shareware or freeware on the internet.

These are the codes offered by the wizard:

CodaBar
Code 25
Code 39
Code 128
EAN-8
EAN-13
FIM

ISBN - ISBN numbers are unique numbers that are printed on books. It is not a separate bar
code type. ISBN numbers have a specific structure and are encoded using EAN-13 bar codes.
The message is formed by a fixed three-digit country code of 978, followed by the 10-digit
ISBN number. The 10th digit, or the check digit, is dicarded.

ISSN
ITF
ITF 14
JAN-8
JAN-13
MSI Plessey

Pharmacode - is used Security Control of the pharmaceutical packaging process

POSTNET - See below

UPC(A) - retail sales

UPC(E)

"POSTNET

POSTNET bar codes are the symbols used to encode ZIP codes on U.S. mail. The Postal
Service mail-handling process is designed to be fully automated, and POSTNET bar codes
provide the symbols that feed the automated equipment.

POSTNET symbols differ from other formats in that the individual bar height alternates,
as opposed to the individual bar width. Each number is represented by a pattern of five
bars. A single tall bar is used for the start and stop bars. POSTNET can be used for
five-digit, nine-digit, and 11-digit Delivery Point Barcode. These codes are often used in
conjunction with FIM bars which are found on the upper right corner of a mail piece such
as Business Reply Mail."



I included a short blurb about a few to give you an idea of how they are used. I found the
POSTNET description the most interesting.

With POSTNET software, if you were doing a bulk mailing, I believe that by adding the bar-
codes, you can mail at a little cheaper rate, as only a machine is needed for sorting the
mail pieces.

WAKE UP, the dull lecture is over, and I've bored you to tears again. Rolling On The Floor Laughing

Drousin' off again....
TuskenRaider
Like
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www.webstore.com/store,pgr,37572,user_id,37572,ac,shop
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
Guthrum

26 Feb 2015
07:23:09am

Here is a MS from Slovenia which I have just bought:

Image Not Found

It commemorates the 70th anniversary of the barbed-wire blockade of Ljubljana in 1942 (an event I do not know about, and which I hope to research more fully in the near future). The design is pleasing, with that barbed wire echoed and re-echoed and the city mapped and photographed.

And then...

I am totally dismayed (that should be cap up: TOTALLY DISMAYED) at what Slovenian Post (I assume) have done with this product. At Wits EndMoral bi biti sram!

(That was supposed to go in italics, but instead this emoji showed up! Ha ha!)

I hope Google Translate have got the Slovenian correct for "You should be ashamed!"

Ne dajo črtne kode na vaše izdelke poštnih. Do not put barcodes on your postal products!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
26 Feb 2015
08:21:11am

Approvals

re: Barcode City! Bah!

There are lots of postal administrations doing this, Slovenia is not alone.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
BeeSee

Langley, BC
26 Feb 2015
09:26:27am

re: Barcode City! Bah!

Canada puts barcodes on all it's souvenir sheets, and in the margins of the regular sheets.

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I love used classic stamps. APS, RPSC, BNAPS"

brcStamps.com
Members Picture
GeoStamper

Steve
26 Feb 2015
09:43:36am

re: Barcode City! Bah!

If the post offices around the world continue with bar codes or QR codes, they might approach something with younger collectors like plate blocks did for me back in the 1970s and 80s. Governments might alter the bar codes slightly to account for print runs or geographic regions or whatever they want. We might then see 10 or 20 different catalog entries for each stamp. Maybe this is already the case?

While I don't have any personal interest, and I would be tempted to trim or cover the bar codes, it might be one way our hobby evolves. What does the collector of 2040 or 2050 have in his/her album? That otherwise beautiful gem from Slovenia ending in 004699 just might become a rarity!

-Steve

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
USAFE7

01 Mar 2015
08:15:16pm

re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi All

I suspect there is a reasonable reason for the Barcodes.

Does anybody have a reasonable reason why the Barcodes are used and the purpose for them?

DAVID THOMPSON
MSGT/USAF/RETIRED

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
01 Mar 2015
10:34:18pm

Auctions

re: Barcode City! Bah!

they also automatically adjust stock, lowering inventory each sale....

on envelopes in the mailstream, they represent the ZIP + 4 + 2 and carrier rte so the mail can be moved along its merry way.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
Guthrum

02 Mar 2015
05:12:14am

re: Barcode City! Bah!

I'm sure barcodes are useful, but they are not lovely. My point was that the barcode detracted from the design of the sheet, and made clear that the point of the sheet was less to commemorate an event in the country's past than to facilitate the business of selling a product.

I take the well-made point that variations in barcodes might ultimately form a distinction between products that would attract collectors, but then the collection would be one of retail products, rather than examples of a country's reflection of its own identity.

It is the latter which interests me as a collector of stamps and miniature sheets, although I realise that philatelic business has driven the hobby almost from its beginnings.

Like
Login to Like
this post
malcolm197

02 Mar 2015
01:46:25pm

re: Barcode City! Bah!

Barcodes are essential in any modern stock control,stock management, and financial control environment. I spent a number of years in retail distributor logistics, and without SKU barcodes it would have been stock management chaos. Every time a bar code is scanned it modifies the outlet inventory,reorders the item from the warehouse, and stores the information to reorder the warehouse stock from the source, as well as ensuring that the correct product is "picked". Additionally it can be a tool to reconcile the sales record with the actual revenue and the inventory, thus acting as a revenue protection operation.

Without this essential management tool post offices worldwide would be even less efficient than they are presently. Of course like all management tools it only works if used correctly and the staff are sufficiently proficient in its use.

Malcolm

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
USAFE7

02 Mar 2015
02:22:40pm

re: Barcode City! Bah!

@malcolm197

Very interesting information and well received by one such as myself.

Do you think there is any collector interest in these?

Like everything else where humans are involved mistakes intended or untended sometimes happens, have the use of barcodes resulted in any mistakes you know of.

Again, many thanks for wonderful information.

DAVID THOMPSON
MSGT/USAF/RETIRED

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
TuskenRaider

02 Mar 2015
03:54:12pm

re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi Everyone;

@ David;

You have a very good point about errors. Some bar codes don't include the numbers just the bars.
If the bars are without numbers, they are considered not human-readable. Mistakes of non
human-readable would be next to impossible to spot, unless the computer software catches it.

However even with that long series of numbers they would be hard to detect. If USPS can't catch
an upside-down airplane, they would not catch a simple number switch.

@ Everyone;

This is a sample of a SKU (Stock Keeping Unit), also known as UPC (Universal Product Code);

0 63491 07564 3

The first number '0' indicates what the number is used to do. Sometimes they are only used for
internal controls to facilitate identification of parts, nuts, bolts, and screws etc. A different number
in the first digit location makes the bar code into a POS code (Point of Sale) used by your retail
stores to ring up your purchase.

The next five numbers are assigned to the supplier, like General Foods, PepsiCo, Frito-Lay and
thousands of others.

The last group of five is the actual product identification like Frito Lay corn chips plain, or corn
chips with Bar-B-Que flavor. Also package sizes are a different number. The grocer will take his
computer software and add a retail price to each number, so the cashier can't charge too much or
too little.

The last digit, in this case is a '3'. A math algorithm, will look at all the numbers before the last one
(x xxxxx xxxxx ?), and perform a detailed calculation, and come up a number. This is called the
check bit. And is used to catch errors.

However if USPS uses the wrong number before the check bit is computed, the software will not
know there is an error. Postal clerks would not have a clue, and probably the stamp printer,
and QC checkers would be just as clueless. Once the sheets are sent out they will only be found
out by collectors most likely, and then only likely if the collectors are savvy about bar codes.
Frankly that would exclude yours truly as I know next to nothing on this topic.

Now that I have bored everyone to tears, I'm going to take a nap, and you all should do the same,
if you haven't nodded off already!

Veggin' out in my cave....
TuskenRaider

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/sto ...
malcolm197

03 Mar 2015
03:41:53am

re: Barcode City! Bah!

I wouldn't think that a collector would be interested in these. The same barcode should be allocated to every one of a particular "line" of product, and is unique to that product.

One spectacular error which can occur is when the numerical stockcode does not correspond with the bar code - and this does happen through a printing error. This means that where you do not have remote computer ordering, a telephone or written order by a real person at the retail end, means they get either no product or the wrong product altogether ( e.g a childs car seat instead of a maternity dress!! ).

A wrongly programmed system can mean that a scan only makes one operation instead of all - e.g. a "picker" scanning an item on despatch to the retailer adds the item to the retailers stock but does not remove it from the warehouse stock or add it to the "bank" for reordering. This is quite rare, and is easily picked up when the warehouse runs out of stock-and is also easily corrected.

Of course the main cause of problems is human error. One common one is "double-scanning".It is easy through lack of coordination or concentration to double click the scanner and remove two items from the inventory instead of one. In the scheme of things that is irrelevant except at audit time. There are millions of individual transactions and statistically the number of errors and financial repercussions are miniscule.

I was not involved in the computer side in my work, but either in picking, replenishment,or the manual side of stock integrity- but of course had to know a little about the "non-technical" part of the computer operation - as the whole business was "system-driven".

Malcolm

Like
Login to Like
this post
2010ccg

03 Mar 2015
07:24:27am

re: Barcode City! Bah!

Interesting read KEN
and no I didn`t nod off.....I often wondered about bar codes....and what the numbers were all about....thanks ... just another tidbit to add to my postal history information...I wonder which country was the first to use bar codes and when....??
Cheryl

Like
Login to Like
this post
USAFE7

03 Mar 2015
09:52:26am

re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi All

All this technical stuff is in itself interesting, but sometimes I get lost, so I always reread again and again.

I have no idea what the future will bring, but expect barcodes will find a place in stamp collecting, to what degree who knows.

I also think barcodes have a place in current postal usages, and there for become the postal history of the future.

Will be interesting to see what comes out of all this if I live long enough to see it.

Enjoy those barcodes!

DAVID THOMPSON
MSGT/USAF/RETIRED
0-17462059-AF

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
TuskenRaider

03 Mar 2015
05:12:30pm

re: Barcode City! Bah!

Hi Everyone;

It just yesterday occurred to me that if some collectors want to look for errors in the printing
of these codes, there is an easy way to do so.

I have on my computer, version 8 of CorelDraw (a Canadian Software Company), and included
in the install is "Barcode Wizard". After you select from 18 different standards, they ask you for
the numbers. For UPC (12 digit bar code) for instance they have you type the 11 digits, and
then the software gives you the check digit.

You are then asked a series of questions that you fill into fields that have to do with ratio of
thick bars to thin bars, how many DPI to print at, the height of the bars, and then will print
the barcode out or save it as a jpg file to the clipboard.

If you do not have access to this Barcode Wizard, there are probably many versions offered
as shareware or freeware on the internet.

These are the codes offered by the wizard:

CodaBar
Code 25
Code 39
Code 128
EAN-8
EAN-13
FIM

ISBN - ISBN numbers are unique numbers that are printed on books. It is not a separate bar
code type. ISBN numbers have a specific structure and are encoded using EAN-13 bar codes.
The message is formed by a fixed three-digit country code of 978, followed by the 10-digit
ISBN number. The 10th digit, or the check digit, is dicarded.

ISSN
ITF
ITF 14
JAN-8
JAN-13
MSI Plessey

Pharmacode - is used Security Control of the pharmaceutical packaging process

POSTNET - See below

UPC(A) - retail sales

UPC(E)

"POSTNET

POSTNET bar codes are the symbols used to encode ZIP codes on U.S. mail. The Postal
Service mail-handling process is designed to be fully automated, and POSTNET bar codes
provide the symbols that feed the automated equipment.

POSTNET symbols differ from other formats in that the individual bar height alternates,
as opposed to the individual bar width. Each number is represented by a pattern of five
bars. A single tall bar is used for the start and stop bars. POSTNET can be used for
five-digit, nine-digit, and 11-digit Delivery Point Barcode. These codes are often used in
conjunction with FIM bars which are found on the upper right corner of a mail piece such
as Business Reply Mail."



I included a short blurb about a few to give you an idea of how they are used. I found the
POSTNET description the most interesting.

With POSTNET software, if you were doing a bulk mailing, I believe that by adding the bar-
codes, you can mail at a little cheaper rate, as only a machine is needed for sorting the
mail pieces.

WAKE UP, the dull lecture is over, and I've bored you to tears again. Rolling On The Floor Laughing

Drousin' off again....
TuskenRaider
Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/sto ...
        

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