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Topical/All : Mermaid Cinderellas

 

Author
Postings
larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

07 Mar 2015
05:48:44pm
I am putting together a worldwide mermaid topical, but there are a few items that appear to be cinderellas and not legitimate postage issues.

Can anyone verify if any of the following are legit postage?

Liberia 2014 Mythical Creatures S/S of 4

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIBERIA-2014-MYTHICAL-CREATURES-VAMPIRE-MERMAID-LEPRECHAUN-ANGEL-SHEET-MINT-NH-/380983512608?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b4630e20

Liberia 2014 Mythical Creatures S/S of 2

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIBERIA-2014-MYTHICAL-CREATURES-MERMAID-SOUVENIR-SHEET-MINT-NH-/131279114387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e90d85093

Republic of Guinee 2012 S/S

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Republic-of-Guinee-2012-Stamp-GU1213B-Mermaid-de-Alla-Pavlova-1952-/141355423876?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e9709884

There are others, and some actually state "Private Issue", but as a U.S. collector I am not used to many stamps issued that aren't intended for postage. Of course, we have the non-invert Jenny, the Legends of the West error sheet and all those pre-Civil War reprints, but those are typically VERY expensive. If anyone collects coins as well, these seem like they may be similar to NCLT coins. Non-circulating legal tender. They are legal as coins, but they are sold for a substantial markup over FV by the government to meet demand by collectors.

Cheers!

Lars

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michael78651

07 Mar 2015
07:05:57pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

My 2015 Scott catalog only goes up to 2013 for Liberia, and 2004 for Guinea. I'll dig through the monthly new issue updates for Liberia. I doubt that Guinea will be listed.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

07 Mar 2015
07:10:26pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Even if listed, though, are there specific countries I should be wary of that have a habit of issuing stamps not intended for use as postage?

Lars

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michael78651

07 Mar 2015
07:10:30pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Looks like Scott is running about 18 months behind on the Liberia listings, and there is nothing new at all for Guinea. Probably very difficult to get authentication from the postal agencies from those countries.

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Bobstamp
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07 Mar 2015
07:40:44pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

My guess is that these are bogus issues. Over the years, there have been many complaints about such stamps, which are marketed as legitimate stamps but are often "issued" by bogus countries or countries which have virtually no postal systems and are or nearly are "failed countries". Since designing and printing decent looking stamps, or "stamps," is expensive, it's generally thought stamps such as the ones you show have been produced by criminal organizations in order to fleece us collectors. I'm not saying that people shouldn't collect such stamps, but they need to be aware that they about as far from "investments" as you can possibly get.

Bob

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larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

07 Mar 2015
08:02:13pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Bob,
I'm not buying them as investments, but I would like to know if they are legitimate issues. In coin collecting there are certain countries to be wary of. Palau is one. I want to know if there is common knowledge among world collectors of certain countries to be wary of - either they issue junk, or a third party does so on their behalf.

Lars

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michael78651

07 Mar 2015
09:23:03pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

As Bob said, many countries have had their stamp programs "hijacked" by unscrupulous people. Liberia and Guinea definitely, Others include Afghanistan, Angola, Benin, Chad, Congo Republic, Mali, Tadjikistan and many of the former Soviet Republics, just to name some that I know of off the top of my head.

Scott tries to state when such "illegal" issues exist for a country as declared by a postal agency or government. They have an informational box with a list of the illegal issues. Of course there is no guarantee that the notice appears in all such affected countries. I believe Gibbons does this too.

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larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

08 Mar 2015
10:43:14am
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Michael,
That is what I was looking for - countries that warrant extra scrutiny. I realize a comprehensive answer isn't possible.
Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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nl1947

09 Mar 2015
03:26:17pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Just curious - how do you go about finding the location of all the "mermaid" issues

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larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

10 Mar 2015
12:32:16am
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Like any topical, you need a starting point. In the US the premier list-keeper seems to be the American Topical Association. The lists are world-wide, so anyone can join, but the lists use Scott numbers.

And like any list, there will be some disputes. Would you clasify the Rheinmaidens from Wagner's Ring Cycle as Mermaids? You would need to decide for yourself since they are depicted on a German stamp.

That's really the fun part (for me). I have spent a lot of time researching Sedna, Fenja & Menja, Helugica, Havis Amanda, Den Lille Havfrue, Hans Christian Andersen, Disney's movie, and the Warsaw Mermaid (which started out as more of a Harpy). That covers the majority of Mermaid stamps, but there are stil a lot of other areas to study.

Have fun!

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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nl1947

10 Mar 2015
08:14:13am
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

OK thank you. I ran a query through my Scott pdf just for "mermaid" & 80 came up.

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larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

10 Mar 2015
06:38:14pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

"OK thank you. I ran a query through my Scott pdf just for "mermaid" & 80 came up."



You also have to decide if you are going to include tabs, selvage, postmarks, and/or cachets. It gets complicated - which it what makes it fun!

Lars

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this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

13 Mar 2015
08:05:41pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

"Looks like Scott is running about 18 months behind on the Liberia listings"



Michael,

If I want to get a newer set of catalogs that covers all of 2005, do I need to get 2008 or later? I have a 1998 set which covers most of the Disney movie issues, but I have discovered that a LOT of Mermaid stamps were issued in 2005 for the bicentennial of Hans Christian Andersen's birth, including the U.S. issue of Ariel from the Disney movie. If I can get worldwide coverage through the end of 2015 then I will only have a handful of more recent issues to investigate. What would be the earliest set that would cover all countries through the end of 2005?

Thanks!

Lars

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this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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michael78651

13 Mar 2015
08:56:08pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

I'd say going at least 3 years out from the issue date will get you most of the stamps issued in a particular year. The problem is that not all the stamps issued in a year get listed timely.

The lack of timeliness is the result of stamps not being made known to the catalog publishers, and more importantly, civil unrest or other problems in the issuing country itself.

Scott mentions, for instance, that many issues from Liberia that were supposedly issued from 1998 through 2004 have not been listed as of yet, due to lack of information regarding postal validity.

One thing you might want to consider, since you mentioned Liberia is an earlier post on this thread is that 2008 may be too early for Liberian issues. I have a 2008 Gibbons catalog, and for Liberia the listings stop at 1992. Scott 2008 catalogs were issued in 2007, and Gibbons 2008 catalog were issued in 2008. You may want to go more recent than 2008 with the catalog set you want to obtain.

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larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

14 Mar 2015
05:22:44pm
re: Mermaid Cinderellas

I guess I'll look for 2011 or newer then, and just have to wait and see on Liberia.

Thanks, Michael!

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
07 Mar 2015
05:48:44pm

I am putting together a worldwide mermaid topical, but there are a few items that appear to be cinderellas and not legitimate postage issues.

Can anyone verify if any of the following are legit postage?

Liberia 2014 Mythical Creatures S/S of 4

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIBERIA-2014-MYTHICAL-CREATURES-VAMPIRE-MERMAID-LEPRECHAUN-ANGEL-SHEET-MINT-NH-/380983512608?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b4630e20

Liberia 2014 Mythical Creatures S/S of 2

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIBERIA-2014-MYTHICAL-CREATURES-MERMAID-SOUVENIR-SHEET-MINT-NH-/131279114387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e90d85093

Republic of Guinee 2012 S/S

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Republic-of-Guinee-2012-Stamp-GU1213B-Mermaid-de-Alla-Pavlova-1952-/141355423876?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e9709884

There are others, and some actually state "Private Issue", but as a U.S. collector I am not used to many stamps issued that aren't intended for postage. Of course, we have the non-invert Jenny, the Legends of the West error sheet and all those pre-Civil War reprints, but those are typically VERY expensive. If anyone collects coins as well, these seem like they may be similar to NCLT coins. Non-circulating legal tender. They are legal as coins, but they are sold for a substantial markup over FV by the government to meet demand by collectors.

Cheers!

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
michael78651

07 Mar 2015
07:05:57pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

My 2015 Scott catalog only goes up to 2013 for Liberia, and 2004 for Guinea. I'll dig through the monthly new issue updates for Liberia. I doubt that Guinea will be listed.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
07 Mar 2015
07:10:26pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Even if listed, though, are there specific countries I should be wary of that have a habit of issuing stamps not intended for use as postage?

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
michael78651

07 Mar 2015
07:10:30pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Looks like Scott is running about 18 months behind on the Liberia listings, and there is nothing new at all for Guinea. Probably very difficult to get authentication from the postal agencies from those countries.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Bobstamp

07 Mar 2015
07:40:44pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

My guess is that these are bogus issues. Over the years, there have been many complaints about such stamps, which are marketed as legitimate stamps but are often "issued" by bogus countries or countries which have virtually no postal systems and are or nearly are "failed countries". Since designing and printing decent looking stamps, or "stamps," is expensive, it's generally thought stamps such as the ones you show have been produced by criminal organizations in order to fleece us collectors. I'm not saying that people shouldn't collect such stamps, but they need to be aware that they about as far from "investments" as you can possibly get.

Bob

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.ephemeraltreasur ...
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
07 Mar 2015
08:02:13pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Bob,
I'm not buying them as investments, but I would like to know if they are legitimate issues. In coin collecting there are certain countries to be wary of. Palau is one. I want to know if there is common knowledge among world collectors of certain countries to be wary of - either they issue junk, or a third party does so on their behalf.

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
michael78651

07 Mar 2015
09:23:03pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

As Bob said, many countries have had their stamp programs "hijacked" by unscrupulous people. Liberia and Guinea definitely, Others include Afghanistan, Angola, Benin, Chad, Congo Republic, Mali, Tadjikistan and many of the former Soviet Republics, just to name some that I know of off the top of my head.

Scott tries to state when such "illegal" issues exist for a country as declared by a postal agency or government. They have an informational box with a list of the illegal issues. Of course there is no guarantee that the notice appears in all such affected countries. I believe Gibbons does this too.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
08 Mar 2015
10:43:14am

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Michael,
That is what I was looking for - countries that warrant extra scrutiny. I realize a comprehensive answer isn't possible.
Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
nl1947

09 Mar 2015
03:26:17pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Just curious - how do you go about finding the location of all the "mermaid" issues

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
10 Mar 2015
12:32:16am

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

Like any topical, you need a starting point. In the US the premier list-keeper seems to be the American Topical Association. The lists are world-wide, so anyone can join, but the lists use Scott numbers.

And like any list, there will be some disputes. Would you clasify the Rheinmaidens from Wagner's Ring Cycle as Mermaids? You would need to decide for yourself since they are depicted on a German stamp.

That's really the fun part (for me). I have spent a lot of time researching Sedna, Fenja & Menja, Helugica, Havis Amanda, Den Lille Havfrue, Hans Christian Andersen, Disney's movie, and the Warsaw Mermaid (which started out as more of a Harpy). That covers the majority of Mermaid stamps, but there are stil a lot of other areas to study.

Have fun!

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
nl1947

10 Mar 2015
08:14:13am

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

OK thank you. I ran a query through my Scott pdf just for "mermaid" & 80 came up.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
10 Mar 2015
06:38:14pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

"OK thank you. I ran a query through my Scott pdf just for "mermaid" & 80 came up."



You also have to decide if you are going to include tabs, selvage, postmarks, and/or cachets. It gets complicated - which it what makes it fun!

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
13 Mar 2015
08:05:41pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

"Looks like Scott is running about 18 months behind on the Liberia listings"



Michael,

If I want to get a newer set of catalogs that covers all of 2005, do I need to get 2008 or later? I have a 1998 set which covers most of the Disney movie issues, but I have discovered that a LOT of Mermaid stamps were issued in 2005 for the bicentennial of Hans Christian Andersen's birth, including the U.S. issue of Ariel from the Disney movie. If I can get worldwide coverage through the end of 2015 then I will only have a handful of more recent issues to investigate. What would be the earliest set that would cover all countries through the end of 2005?

Thanks!

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
michael78651

13 Mar 2015
08:56:08pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

I'd say going at least 3 years out from the issue date will get you most of the stamps issued in a particular year. The problem is that not all the stamps issued in a year get listed timely.

The lack of timeliness is the result of stamps not being made known to the catalog publishers, and more importantly, civil unrest or other problems in the issuing country itself.

Scott mentions, for instance, that many issues from Liberia that were supposedly issued from 1998 through 2004 have not been listed as of yet, due to lack of information regarding postal validity.

One thing you might want to consider, since you mentioned Liberia is an earlier post on this thread is that 2008 may be too early for Liberian issues. I have a 2008 Gibbons catalog, and for Liberia the listings stop at 1992. Scott 2008 catalogs were issued in 2007, and Gibbons 2008 catalog were issued in 2008. You may want to go more recent than 2008 with the catalog set you want to obtain.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
14 Mar 2015
05:22:44pm

re: Mermaid Cinderellas

I guess I'll look for 2011 or newer then, and just have to wait and see on Liberia.

Thanks, Michael!

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
        

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