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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

 

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I still have more questions than answers

27 Mar 2015
04:15:31pm
I have this letter that when I bought it I was told was a French letter with medical references. I showed it to a friend that said it was Latin. He also believed it to be Medival Latin. I was hoping someone here may be able to help translate it. The wax seal was in great shape and my limited search of that leads me to it being German. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Bobstamp
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27 Mar 2015
04:30:29pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Very interesting, and…readable! My suggestion: type a transcript in a word processing program and run it through Google Translate, which would at least give you the gist of the letter, if not an accurate word-for-word translation.
Alternatively, assuming that you're a member of APS, ask one of the APS translators for help. They charge, but the charge is nominal. This letter, I expect, would be quite easy to translate.

Bob

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michael78651

27 Mar 2015
04:46:42pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Looks like a trip to the Vatican is in order. Then you can stop at the post office there and buy stamps too!

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Jansimon
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collector, seller, MT member

27 Mar 2015
05:43:27pm

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re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

The seal is of the German city Aachen. My Latin is not that good to translate this but I did saw a German name Schmitz. I suspect it is something judicial.

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I still have more questions than answers

27 Mar 2015
09:08:11pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

I don't know how to cancel, but I did just leave a message there that I had received my answer.

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auldstampguy
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

27 Mar 2015
10:18:11pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Pat showed us this document at the Minnesota Postal History Society meeting earlier this week. It is quite an incredible looking document that is in wonderful condition. I suggested at the time that he post it on Stamporama as felt for sure one of our members would be able to translate it. Chris, I for one would really appreciate it if you are able to translate it for us.

Regards ... Tim.

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

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dollhaus

28 Mar 2015
11:21:16am
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

I'm taking a shot at it also, but I'm having a tough time with the script - I have more words I'm unsure of than those I think are correct in context. Anglophile will probably come up with a good translation before I can finish. At any rate, from the first pass through, it's safe to say it's a very colorful letter.

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nigelc
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28 Mar 2015
08:27:52pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Excellent Anglophile! Cool

What little remains of my school Latin couldn't cope with this.

I spent some time on the first line then gave up!

However, I suggest that the opening words read: "Nos, Consules, Scabini et Magistratus..." ?

i.e. the writer is speaking for thee groups of officials.



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nigelc
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28 Mar 2015
08:40:04pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

"Scabino" is an Italian word for a type of official so I guess it makes sense that late Latin would use the same word (whichever came first).

Here's a note from Wikipedia which I found interesting:

"A scabino (pl. scabini) is an Italian word referring to a type of civic office. The word scabino is not used in English. The closest English terms are alderman or magistrate, but this term does not really have an English equivalent. This article refers only to the office in Italy and elsewhere in Continental Europe. This Italian term is related to the terms used in other European languages, including Schöffe (pl. Schöffen) in German, schepen (pl. schepenen) in Dutch, échevin (pl. échevins) in French (in Belgium and Luxembourg) and šepmistr (pl. šepmistři) in Czech."

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michael78651

28 Mar 2015
11:38:14pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Fascinating!

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dollhaus

28 Mar 2015
11:57:48pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

For the color part, some other words that might fit better. "viridium' looks different, but it is genitive plural like the others.

in una parte cyaneorum, viridium caeruleorum, rubrorum et nigrorum,

in one part dark blue, blue-green, red, and black.

Leaving on a trip in the AM, so no more time to work with it.

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I still have more questions than answers

29 Mar 2015
09:34:27am
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Very Cool and Amazing. Thank you so much Christopher! If you ever need help with a Minnesota translation, I'm your guy. For example Ya-ah shoure ya becha is Minnesotan for yes.

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nigelc
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29 Mar 2015
10:21:55am
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

"grassetus contagiosa sues"

The first word looks like "grassetus" but I wonder if it should be "grassatus"?

The other two words are "contagiosa lues", i.e. contagious disease/pestilence/plague.


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HungaryForStamps
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02 Apr 2015
09:34:48pm
re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

scabini are judges in Frankish or German old European law

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I still have more questions than answers
27 Mar 2015
04:15:31pm

I have this letter that when I bought it I was told was a French letter with medical references. I showed it to a friend that said it was Latin. He also believed it to be Medival Latin. I was hoping someone here may be able to help translate it. The wax seal was in great shape and my limited search of that leads me to it being German. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Like
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this post

pjsstamps.blogspot.c ...
Members Picture
Bobstamp

27 Mar 2015
04:30:29pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Very interesting, and…readable! My suggestion: type a transcript in a word processing program and run it through Google Translate, which would at least give you the gist of the letter, if not an accurate word-for-word translation.
Alternatively, assuming that you're a member of APS, ask one of the APS translators for help. They charge, but the charge is nominal. This letter, I expect, would be quite easy to translate.

Bob

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www.ephemeraltreasur ...
michael78651

27 Mar 2015
04:46:42pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Looks like a trip to the Vatican is in order. Then you can stop at the post office there and buy stamps too!

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
Jansimon

collector, seller, MT member
27 Mar 2015
05:43:27pm

Approvals

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

The seal is of the German city Aachen. My Latin is not that good to translate this but I did saw a German name Schmitz. I suspect it is something judicial.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.etsy.com/nl/shop ...
Members Picture
postmarks

I still have more questions than answers
27 Mar 2015
09:08:11pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

I don't know how to cancel, but I did just leave a message there that I had received my answer.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

pjsstamps.blogspot.c ...
Members Picture
auldstampguy

Tim
Collector, Webmaster
27 Mar 2015
10:18:11pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Pat showed us this document at the Minnesota Postal History Society meeting earlier this week. It is quite an incredible looking document that is in wonderful condition. I suggested at the time that he post it on Stamporama as felt for sure one of our members would be able to translate it. Chris, I for one would really appreciate it if you are able to translate it for us.

Regards ... Tim.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

mncancels.org
dollhaus

28 Mar 2015
11:21:16am

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

I'm taking a shot at it also, but I'm having a tough time with the script - I have more words I'm unsure of than those I think are correct in context. Anglophile will probably come up with a good translation before I can finish. At any rate, from the first pass through, it's safe to say it's a very colorful letter.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
nigelc

28 Mar 2015
08:27:52pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Excellent Anglophile! Cool

What little remains of my school Latin couldn't cope with this.

I spent some time on the first line then gave up!

However, I suggest that the opening words read: "Nos, Consules, Scabini et Magistratus..." ?

i.e. the writer is speaking for thee groups of officials.



Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
nigelc

28 Mar 2015
08:40:04pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

"Scabino" is an Italian word for a type of official so I guess it makes sense that late Latin would use the same word (whichever came first).

Here's a note from Wikipedia which I found interesting:

"A scabino (pl. scabini) is an Italian word referring to a type of civic office. The word scabino is not used in English. The closest English terms are alderman or magistrate, but this term does not really have an English equivalent. This article refers only to the office in Italy and elsewhere in Continental Europe. This Italian term is related to the terms used in other European languages, including Schöffe (pl. Schöffen) in German, schepen (pl. schepenen) in Dutch, échevin (pl. échevins) in French (in Belgium and Luxembourg) and šepmistr (pl. šepmistři) in Czech."

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michael78651

28 Mar 2015
11:38:14pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Fascinating!

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this post
dollhaus

28 Mar 2015
11:57:48pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

For the color part, some other words that might fit better. "viridium' looks different, but it is genitive plural like the others.

in una parte cyaneorum, viridium caeruleorum, rubrorum et nigrorum,

in one part dark blue, blue-green, red, and black.

Leaving on a trip in the AM, so no more time to work with it.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
postmarks

I still have more questions than answers
29 Mar 2015
09:34:27am

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

Very Cool and Amazing. Thank you so much Christopher! If you ever need help with a Minnesota translation, I'm your guy. For example Ya-ah shoure ya becha is Minnesotan for yes.

Like
Login to Like
this post

pjsstamps.blogspot.c ...
Members Picture
nigelc

29 Mar 2015
10:21:55am

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

"grassetus contagiosa sues"

The first word looks like "grassetus" but I wonder if it should be "grassatus"?

The other two words are "contagiosa lues", i.e. contagious disease/pestilence/plague.


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
HungaryForStamps

02 Apr 2015
09:34:48pm

re: Can someone help me translate this 1723 Latin letter?

scabini are judges in Frankish or German old European law

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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