Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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I think you are confusing the cancellation "Giro Nationale" on Spanish stamps. The cancellation is a revenue cancel showing that the tax (fee) was paid. Regular postage stamps are used as a receipt for purchasing money orders in the post office, and canceled with the revenue cancel.
The stamps you have posted the images of are fiscal revenue stamps.
They were not valid for postal purposes, so you won't find them in the catalogs.
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Michael##### is correct, they are not postage stamps, so they won't be listed in the Scott catalog.
However, they are indeed postal money order stamps -- that is why "CORREOS" is inscribed on the stamp. Your 3 stamps are part of 5 stamp set (5c, 10c, 25c, 50c, 1p) issued from 1911-1920. There should be a blue control number printed vertically down the back of your stamps.
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So these stamps would be considered the money order instrument itself? Are they money orders as we understand them today, as a form of payment for goods? I just wanted to clarify how these would have been used at the time.
A related question is if these types of stamps were ever "cancelled"?
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Hi Adam,
I believe these stamps were used to pay the fee for the money order service (just as postage and telegraph stamps pay for the corresponding services) like the "poundage" charge paid using postage stamps on British postal orders.
I would expect them to be cancelled when applied to the money order form or card but I don't know the details of the Spanish process.
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As Nigel posted, they were used to pay the fee for money orders.
I don't collect "revenues", but the typical cancels I've seen were dated oval cancels. I've seen them overwhelmingly in unused condition.
If anybody has Galvez, there might be additional info in there.
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Why are there so many MNH examples out there? If they were affixed to money orders, then cancelled when purchasing them, how would unused stamps come into the hands of collectors?
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Typically what happens is that when they were demonetized, the remaining supplies were wholesaled off (or work their way to dealers through "other" means).
I don't think the Spanish money order stamps were in use beyond a decade or two. As Michael#####'s posted, regular postage stamps were used. Again, typically what happens is that the postal service recognizes that it's too much trouble to maintain stocks of all sorts of different class stamps. So like the US Parcel Post and Certified Mail stamps, they quit making them and simply allow customers to use normal postage stamps. The difference, of course, is that those US stamps were actual postage stamps to begin with, whereas the Spanish money order stamps could only be used to pay the money order fee (cannot be used as postage).
I don't collect revenues and I don't collect "on piece" stamps either, so I can't tell you how prevalent cancelled money order stamps are. Hopefully somebody else can chime in, or has the Galvez book and can look it up.
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Here are examples of cancelled Spanish money order stamps that I pilfered from the web:
1916 50c stamp
1920 10c stamp
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Just to clarify, your stamps ARE revenues stamps as Michael#####'s posted early on. They are revenue stamps that happened to be used by the postal service.
As far as I know, they were never valid as postage stamps. That is why they are not listed in Scott.
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It was mentioned above that because they were used on money orders and not as postage, they are not listed in Scott. In the Scott US Specialized, it lists Postal Note Stamps PN1 to PN18 as the same thing.
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The Scott United States Specialized catalog uses different listing criteria than Scott's Standard World Wide catalogs.
You won't find those Giro stamps listed in Gibbons or Michel either. I don't have a Spanish specialized catalog, but there's a good chance they'll be in there.
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Yes, I was also referring to the Scott Standard catalogs, not the US Specialized (which DOES lists revenues, but actually only lists some of them).
They're not in my 2009 Edifil (at least I could not find them). But I've been told that they are listed in the Galvez catalog, which is why I mentioned it.
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It would be neat to see an example of one on a form with a cancel. I looked up some on Google from various countries.
Below is an example (from EBAY).
RUSSIA / POLAND 16.11.1909 MONEY ORDER FROM LOMZA TO OSTROW
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There is actually an online archive detailing all the rules and procedures for using giro fiscal stamp, except that those rules are for the Philippines (while under Spanish control). It includes the fee rates.
I've yet to find one giving the specifics for Spain itself. But I admit, I didn't look that hard. I'm sure there's one online somewhere.
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I've been researching these, and I think they are called money order stamps (Spain). Can anyone help me understand what these are? Are they listed in any catalogs like Scott?
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01:21:19am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
I think you are confusing the cancellation "Giro Nationale" on Spanish stamps. The cancellation is a revenue cancel showing that the tax (fee) was paid. Regular postage stamps are used as a receipt for purchasing money orders in the post office, and canceled with the revenue cancel.
The stamps you have posted the images of are fiscal revenue stamps.
They were not valid for postal purposes, so you won't find them in the catalogs.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
Michael##### is correct, they are not postage stamps, so they won't be listed in the Scott catalog.
However, they are indeed postal money order stamps -- that is why "CORREOS" is inscribed on the stamp. Your 3 stamps are part of 5 stamp set (5c, 10c, 25c, 50c, 1p) issued from 1911-1920. There should be a blue control number printed vertically down the back of your stamps.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
So these stamps would be considered the money order instrument itself? Are they money orders as we understand them today, as a form of payment for goods? I just wanted to clarify how these would have been used at the time.
A related question is if these types of stamps were ever "cancelled"?
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
Hi Adam,
I believe these stamps were used to pay the fee for the money order service (just as postage and telegraph stamps pay for the corresponding services) like the "poundage" charge paid using postage stamps on British postal orders.
I would expect them to be cancelled when applied to the money order form or card but I don't know the details of the Spanish process.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
As Nigel posted, they were used to pay the fee for money orders.
I don't collect "revenues", but the typical cancels I've seen were dated oval cancels. I've seen them overwhelmingly in unused condition.
If anybody has Galvez, there might be additional info in there.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
Why are there so many MNH examples out there? If they were affixed to money orders, then cancelled when purchasing them, how would unused stamps come into the hands of collectors?
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
Typically what happens is that when they were demonetized, the remaining supplies were wholesaled off (or work their way to dealers through "other" means).
I don't think the Spanish money order stamps were in use beyond a decade or two. As Michael#####'s posted, regular postage stamps were used. Again, typically what happens is that the postal service recognizes that it's too much trouble to maintain stocks of all sorts of different class stamps. So like the US Parcel Post and Certified Mail stamps, they quit making them and simply allow customers to use normal postage stamps. The difference, of course, is that those US stamps were actual postage stamps to begin with, whereas the Spanish money order stamps could only be used to pay the money order fee (cannot be used as postage).
I don't collect revenues and I don't collect "on piece" stamps either, so I can't tell you how prevalent cancelled money order stamps are. Hopefully somebody else can chime in, or has the Galvez book and can look it up.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
Here are examples of cancelled Spanish money order stamps that I pilfered from the web:
1916 50c stamp
1920 10c stamp
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
Just to clarify, your stamps ARE revenues stamps as Michael#####'s posted early on. They are revenue stamps that happened to be used by the postal service.
As far as I know, they were never valid as postage stamps. That is why they are not listed in Scott.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
It was mentioned above that because they were used on money orders and not as postage, they are not listed in Scott. In the Scott US Specialized, it lists Postal Note Stamps PN1 to PN18 as the same thing.
Login to Like
this post
01:06:35pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
The Scott United States Specialized catalog uses different listing criteria than Scott's Standard World Wide catalogs.
You won't find those Giro stamps listed in Gibbons or Michel either. I don't have a Spanish specialized catalog, but there's a good chance they'll be in there.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
Yes, I was also referring to the Scott Standard catalogs, not the US Specialized (which DOES lists revenues, but actually only lists some of them).
They're not in my 2009 Edifil (at least I could not find them). But I've been told that they are listed in the Galvez catalog, which is why I mentioned it.
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
It would be neat to see an example of one on a form with a cancel. I looked up some on Google from various countries.
Below is an example (from EBAY).
RUSSIA / POLAND 16.11.1909 MONEY ORDER FROM LOMZA TO OSTROW
Login to Like
this post
re: Spain Money Order Stamp
There is actually an online archive detailing all the rules and procedures for using giro fiscal stamp, except that those rules are for the Philippines (while under Spanish control). It includes the fee rates.
I've yet to find one giving the specifics for Spain itself. But I admit, I didn't look that hard. I'm sure there's one online somewhere.
Login to Like
this post