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Asia/China : Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

 

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Ningpo
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28 Jul 2015
06:18:00pm
The thread entitled, Hong Kong: errors, curiosities and the unidentified has become rather long and is now causing lengthy loading times for some. As suggested, a Part II version is now being started here.



This is the first post Clownof the ‘new’ thread with a modified title to include postmarks.



Below is a rather washed out pair of 20 cent on 30 cent 1891 provisional overprints, with two strikes of a Thursday Island cancellation. The numerals ‘148’ in four concentric rings of dots in an oval pattern, is a Webb Type Bi postmark.

Thursday Island is in the Torres Strait, some 39 kilometres north of Cape York Peninsula, Queensland, Australia.


This marking is attributed to mail arriving on Thursday Island, normally in transit elsewhere; possibly New Zealand.

Although condition is an issue, I felt that the chances of finding another pair with this postmark was very slim, particularly as it is not often found on Hong Kong adhesives.


..............................Image Not Found


The diamond shaped blue lozenge is a company security marking, seemingly applied in fugitive ink which has run; the fugitive green ink used to print the adhesives has washed out too.

EDIT

The following information has been put in this post, in response to a request from JEREMY HODES of http://queenslandstampnumerals.blogspot.co.uk/ who requested measurements of the '148' numerals on the cancellation.

I have tried posting on his blog with no success, so in the hope that he reviews this thread (he has linked to it in his blog) he will find the answer to that question......

Jeremy, my apologies for not responding to your question before now. Only the numerals '1' and '4' can be measured with any degree of accuracy, and even then I am not sure these have been struck fully. Anyway, they measure 5 mm and 5.5 mm respectively.





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Ningpo
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30 Jul 2015
08:44:41am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

For those that collect Kong Kong, I would like to bring to your attention the following thread: New website dedicated to forgeries



This is pertinent to collectors of overprints and postmarks in particular, as there is a forgery operation based in Canada that is currently selling on eBay.


http://tinyurl.com/osyc5qy

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Ningpo
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30 Jul 2015
02:19:16pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Mr Manyk is of course flaunting the eBay rules regarding forgeries, in that these copies should be marked as such on the back. Despite him being reported in the past, eBay have done nothing as usual.

And today another raft of forgeries has been listed. At the rate he lists (and probably creates them) the market will be flooded in the future.

This could have a severe effect on sellers of genuine material because as the word gets around of this forger's work, the better informed buyer will be reluctant to take any chances.

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Ningpo
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30 Jul 2015
02:57:46pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Here's a pair of 1912-1921 Multiple Crown CA 6 cent Brown-orange, with a rather large boxed multi lingual 'STEAMER' marking.

There is another word after steamer within the box that I can't make out and what appears to be one or more characters before it.

I haven't seen this one before and know nothing about it.


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Ningpo
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26 Oct 2015
05:46:34pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I happened to spot these two stamps in a small mixed lot, at the opposite ends of a stock card. I thought they may be connected in some way and used the actual auction scan to cut and paste the two together.


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And lo and behold; two stamps showing partial strikes of Nederland Indie 'Tandjong-Priok' ship markings. I didn't have a single example in my collection; and they married up.....

Or so I thought:



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According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!

So the two of them are back 'on the shelf'. Nice little find though, even if I do say so myself.

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WillLack
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13 Jan 2016
02:12:05pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Just purchased the following unusual cancels on HK stamps
B127 is Moulmein Burma
Martinique in the Caribbean
Cairo Egypt

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cocollectibles

13 Jan 2016
04:06:25pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

OMG, wonderful! Was this on the Bay?

Peter

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"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
Ningpo
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13 Jan 2016
04:32:52pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I'd be very surprised if he did. He has connections you know; I've seen his mugshot on the back of a HK Study Circle bulletin.

Marvellous additions by the way. I personally have not seen any one of these before, not even in an auction catalogue.

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Linus
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13 Jan 2016
04:41:52pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

WillLack

Those are great cancels. I have never seen any Hong Kong stamps cancelled in those places before either. Thanks for sharing with us.

Linus

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WillLack
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14 Jan 2016
03:07:39pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

really fabulous pieces - put a dent in my stamp spending for the next 4 months or so.... what I really want now is a Malacca cancel, an Aden cancel and maybe a Malta and Gibralter still to find...

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Linus
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14 Jan 2016
08:01:06pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

WillLack,

Your Cairo, Egypt cancel with Cook's Tourist Service is from Thomas Cook and Sons, a pioneer in the package tours business out of England that conducted tours around the world. They were so successful running tours up and down the Nile River that they had their own fleet of steamships hauling passengers, tourists, and mail. I have seen this cancel before on Ebay listings. There is lots of information about them on the internet via Google.

I was recently reading about Thomas Cook as I researched the Hong Kong revenue stamp below from my own collection.

Linus

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Ningpo
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06 Feb 2016
07:48:57am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I found this block amongst a dealers stock years ago and noticed the bottom left hand stamp had a broken 'W' of 'Wedding'. From 1981, this is SG399 (Scott #373), from a set of three.

I wasn't sure if this was a constant variety or just a one off, so just put it aside:


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Some time later I found this one:


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Then last week I saw an identical marginal block of 8 listed on eBay, with the same variety. So it would seem this is constant but unlisted.

I checked out my newly arrived Yang catalogue, as they tend to list the minor printing varieties, only to find that they have clagged up this particular issue. They have omitted the set completely. It was listed in the previous catalogue but the new one jumps from C156 to C160.

Quelle suprise! I had hoped that Yang might have made a better job of this new catalogue.

Anyway, although only a minor variety (some might say 'a flyspeck'), this is perhaps worth looking out for, as it is a common stamp. It may be listed by somebody...eventually.



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simothecat

06 Feb 2016
11:12:39pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Ningpo: You wrote:

>Or so I thought:



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>According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!

My experience is that these cancels of Netherlands Indies (called short bar cancels) are always over 25mm in diameter. And, indeed, aren't the stamps in the picture above more than 22mm high? The 20mm in Yang must be wrong.

Jan

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Ningpo
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07 Feb 2016
06:08:31am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Jan,

You are absolutely right. It didn't even dawn on me that 20mm couldn't possibly be correct; these definitives are around 24mm in height, including perfs. So the CDS would have to be that diameter at minimum.

So perhaps the two I found are part of the same strike after all. I should know better than to take Yang's description as gospel.

Thank you for pointing this out. You get the cigar instead. Applause



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Ningpo
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07 Feb 2016
08:42:28am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Willack posted a newly acquired strike of the Thomas Cook - Cairo CDS. Another turned up on eBay a week or so ago. This one is on a large piece with two strikes. Interesting recipient! Perhaps the Duke was on a 'grand tour' of the far east:


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Ningpo
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10 Feb 2016
01:15:44pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

A new variety addition: Sg134c 'lightning conductor' on chapel:


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WillLack
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13 Mar 2016
04:58:59pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

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New additions to my collection of arrival marking on HK

San Francisco cogwheel

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Triest, where Austria Lloyd shipping line had its base

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Russian Post office Shanghai

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Not technically an arrival cancel- Jenny & Co, Manila - but the firm chop is previously unrecorded on HK adhesives - see Rod Sell's site on security markings etc
http://rodsell.com/hksmsic/hksmsic.html



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Linus
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17 Mar 2016
11:36:00pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

WillLack,

Those are all nice cancels, thanks for scanning and sharing.

Below is a block of 3 from my collection. Between the two HONG-KONG 19 JUL 41 SHEUNG.WAN cancels is a "HONOLULU HAWAII AUG 16 1941 REGISTERED" cancel. I only wish it was a complete block of 4, but at least it is still together, as is.

Linus

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WillLack
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02 Apr 2016
12:13:59pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Wimbledon - sadly did not win this on ebay... ugh
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another Wimbledon
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WillLack
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02 Apr 2016
12:15:59pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

An unusual location - (Papua) New Guinea

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WillLack
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02 Apr 2016
07:41:33pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Direction marking (Cheribon) Cirebon in West Java Dutch East Indies - Indonesia went on Ebay for £285 sadly not to me - previously unrecorded...

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For more info on Forwarding Markings http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/001_RedirectionMarkings_Jones/@RM_Jones.html

Another Ebay one I missed out on Port Dickson - Malaya - although now a little suspicious as the cancel is very clean and almost too crisp
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Interesting as a chop applied to an envelop - not really a forwarding agents mark, but a nice piece alongside the Tientsin cancel..
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For more info on Forwarding agents marks
http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/013-Forwrding-Agents-PO/Forwarding-Agents-List-May.pdf


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WillLack
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17 Apr 2016
12:42:04pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

almost sure that the Port Dickson cancel is a fake - blowing it up looks like an inkjet fake - and the seller has form -

look at this terrible fake

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONG-KONG-CHINA-1912-KGV-3-00-SG-114-WITH-SINGAPORE-POSTMARK-/222087748040?hash=item33b57619c8:g:44kAAOSwkx5XEPBL

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WillLack
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13 May 2016
04:50:25pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

New York arrival cancel on King Edward VII

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sheepshanks
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11 Jun 2016
08:04:59pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Just seen this on ebay, any thoughts on the colour wash out, the red line under the left stamps is not consistent or straight and the paper seems extremely thin.
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Ningpo
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12 Jun 2016
10:04:55am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Those red 'Jubilee' margin lines are quite normal for GVI definitive issues. As to the colour; unless this is a poor scan, they are very faded. Looking at the plate number lozenge, the colour has deteriorated from a dull lilac to a grey shade.

There seems to be some colour bleed (or offset) on the RH stamp too.

As for the paper; again this looks quite normal. However, the pair typically (for this 1938 issue) have toned gum. These appear though to have been left in sunlight.


In conclusion; I would avoid these.

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Ningpo
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26 Jun 2016
07:09:03pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Here are two strikes of the Japanese Formosa postmark on KEVII adhesives. Both are probably the same date and likely to be no later than 1905.


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It is thought that stamps were purchased on the island from the British Consulate.

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Linus
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21 Aug 2016
01:16:23pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I would like to share some Hong Kong postmarks from my collection. For those who like Hong Kong....enjoy!

Linus


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vinman
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21 Aug 2016
04:07:42pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I don't collect Hong Kong but I do collect and enjoy cancels. Very nice! Thanks for posting.

Vince

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Ningpo
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07 Sep 2016
02:43:54pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Some nice strikes there Linus. I particularly like your straight line Amoy and Statow. You have a very good copy of the large format QV $1.50 'chestnut' revenue stamp, with a part 'Paid-All' fiscal cancellation.

I don't have a copy of that myself.This was issued in 1867. Interestingly, this was the only stamp in that series to be forged (to defraud the revenue). It was crudely printed by woodblock and perforated 10½. Yours is 15½ x 15.

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Ningpo
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02 Oct 2016
09:12:42am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I spotted this on an auction site as a 'buy it now'. I noticed the very strange cancellation, which I have never seen before:


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Here's a close-up of the CDS:


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I then tried to isolate the CDS, which was very difficult due to the bottom portion merging into the dark area of the mountain.


This is what I managed to come up with:


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There are no known Hong Kong postmarks with vertical bars in the inner circle, which were used in early Japanese postmarks and some British colonies (perhaps elsewhere too). So The question is, is this an unrecorded postmark type? Well, I suspect that in view of the rather squiffy date slugs, this is bogus.

I am though, rather pleased to have found it.


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Ningpo
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12 Oct 2016
10:37:47am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Just received today, which I spotted in a small auction lot, is a barred numeral 556 postmark of CAPE COAST CASTLE, GOLD COAST. An extraordinary destination:


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WillLack
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13 Nov 2016
12:01:14pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

wow what a find - if you ever want to sell.....

I am hoping to at some point in the next 10 years write a new book on Hong Kong Arrival Cancellations to replace the 1980 Black and white one- now that scanners and colour printing so much cheaper

Would love to receive scans of arrival markings from non traditional (ie Treaty Port) locations and would credit in the magnum opus I intend to write.

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WillLack
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27 Feb 2017
11:33:23am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

here is an unusual Hong Kong arrival marking - Larnaca in Cyprus.....

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and this is an unusual company marking - Railway Property under a Foochow DCS

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sheepshanks
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26 Mar 2017
05:53:38pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

During a moment of rest from trying to sort watermarks I found these, the varieties do not seem to be noted in the Scott or SG catalogues. Does Yang mention them.
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The vertical line is more noticeable visually but the scan does not come out to well.
Any thoughts?

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Ningpo
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26 Mar 2017
07:58:45pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

These sort of flaws are not listed in any catalogues.

The first 'flaw' you show, seems to be one of those endless variable fly specks that plague this issue; not only on HK but other colonies who were supplied by the same printers. Just page up to my post in this thread, showing the enlarged image of the 'lightning conductor' on chapel. Then look at the rooftop of the same turret as yours - mine looks like a TV aerial; yours looks like a radio aerial.

The second 'line' flaw, is one of many that seem to occur from time to time. Some are more extreme than others. In fact there is another post on this thread: Hong Kong: errors......(Thread Closed)

But to save looking, here it is again (to keep things nice and neat):


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In that thread, I uploaded this image of what I called a 'balloon string' flaw.

There is a whole thread dedicated to these un-catalogued varieties on the 'Australian board'.

I'd imagine that none of these will achieve catalogue status until it can be proven that these are 'constant' varieties. Most we see, seem to be of a more random nature.

My own view is that the rather waxy/viscous ink on the castle vignette, contributes to their appearance.

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sheepshanks
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26 Mar 2017
08:45:50pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Thanks Ningpo, guess I'll just keep them as a curiosity and annotate the page accordingly.

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Linus
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10 Oct 2017
02:28:41pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

After taking the summer off from my stamp collection, it is time to dive back in, and post on the board again as my contribution to this club. I enjoy everyone's posts on here, and I learn a lot from all of you. Thank you! Perhaps others can learn a little from my lifetime accumulation of stamps and covers.

To my old pal Ningpo, this scan is for you...Ningpo, you there??


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These Hong Kong stamps have the Treaty Port of Ningpo cancellations. Ningpo was about 100 miles south of Shanghai, China, 20 miles inland from the coast on a short navigable river opposite the island of Chusan. Ningpo was one of the 5 original Treaty Ports ceded to Great Britain in 1842. When it was ceded. it was already in British hands, for Chusan was the main base of the British Fleet in the First China War, and the expeditionary force captured Ningpo in October 1841, and wintered there.

Linus

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Ningpo
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10 Oct 2017
03:30:03pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Thanks for the mention Linus and welcome back. Nice little cluster there, including the one that's the same as my Avatar. Your's is a bit earlier though.

I did manage to pick up an N1 killer cancel, albeit incomplete. But these now go for silly money.

Hope you have been saving up your coppers over the summer months You might just need them.

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Linus
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10 Oct 2017
03:48:56pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I have yet to find the N1 killer, as they seem to be difficult to locate, but I will keep hunting. I am sure a dealer will ask quite a lot for one.

Here is a nice Registered Shanghai Branch Post Office cancellation on a King Edward VII pair that I acquired awhile back, for your enjoyment. Happy

Linus

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Linus
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11 Oct 2017
10:31:35am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Below are scans from the Treaty Port of Amoy from my Hong Kong collection. The A1 and D27 were early killer cancellations from Amoy, which was another of the five original Treaty Ports opened under the Treaty of Nanking in 1842.

Linus

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Ningpo
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11 Oct 2017
12:22:36pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Some fine strikes there Linus. The neat placement of these became ever wayward as time progressed.

Getting these complete (or at least, near as damn it), is always a challenge.

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WillLack
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17 Oct 2017
07:33:38am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I did not win this on a recent ebay auction but its one I really wanted I think it went for £141 - I was stuck in traffic late on the way home so missed the end and would gone a bit higher than that,
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WillLack
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17 Oct 2017
07:35:56am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary
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WillLack
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17 Oct 2017
07:37:48am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

How about this to set your pulses racing
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and
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Ningpo
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17 Oct 2017
07:06:04pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

"This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary"



If this is from Stanley, you wouldn't have found this in Webb. I would have to check this out by looking at Ted Prouds book.

Stanley had an agency in a police post in the 20's, but I don't think any postmarks have been recorded earlier than 1930 (according to Webb).

In my view, a handstamp of this type would have been made for a much larger post office existing in Victorian times. I don't think any of those tiny branch offices would have warranted such a handstamp (or any for that matter), until postal volumes reached the levels of around the 1910/1920's era; which even then were fairly low.

Aside from my conjecture, an 'S' index is a very desirable find, particularly for the price you paid.

I'll wait to see if you find anything more about this.

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Ningpo
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17 Oct 2017
07:34:13pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

The two pieces you have shown adorned with the Jubilee issue, is the most astonishing 'on piece' examples I have ever seen.

Based on my counting and calculations, there are 149 adhesives, and using the current SG 5th edition listing, the catalogue value works out to be £ 19,370 for non variety copies.

It is probable that the gaps are where the varieties were found (if indeed all have been removed).

It is worth noting that all have been struck by the B62 obliterator. The vast majority of Jubilees were cancelled on the first day of issue by a Hong Kong CDS. So it's unfortunate that it's not possible to tell when they were actually canceled.

Furthermore, there was a rather lowly limit on the number of these that were allowed to be bought by individuals; 30 I think to start with. These were reportedly all sold out on the day. So this raises the question of how were so many obtained. No doubt he had some 'assistance' to obtain these.

Where did you find these images?

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WillLack
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22 Oct 2017
10:17:29am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I am a member of a Facebook group Hong Kong Stamps, Covers and Postmarks
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HKSCP/?ref=group_header

One of the other members posted it - it is remarkable - I suppose he must have sent his junior employees to line up and buy as much as they could. I wonder if he had whole sheets CTO and then split it up, i imagine he must have been a dealer surely to lay it out like that...

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Linus
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13 Nov 2017
06:18:18pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

These three Hong Kong stamps from my collection all have USA "World's Panama-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco 1915" partial cancellations. This cancel was used in the western United States in many locations. I have scanned 4 examples from my collection of this cancel used at Pasadena, California, San Francisco, California, Seattle, Washington, and Portland, Oregon, to show you what the entire cancellation looked like. Ningpo and WillLack, have you ever seen this cancel used on Hong Kong stamps?

Linus

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Ningpo
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15 Nov 2017
12:18:16pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

New to me. And I don't usually miss something out of the ordinary. Any idea how long this slogan was in use for?

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Linus
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16 Nov 2017
11:01:39am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

The Panama-Pacific International Exposition was a world's fair that opened in San Francisco on February 20, 1915. The postmark was used to help promote the world's fair. I do not have a reference book detailing the usage of this postmark, but based on the examples from my own collection, the Pasadena, California cancel was used on January 22, 1912, which is over 3 years prior to the opening date of the fair. All I can do to answer your question, Ningpo, is to estimate it at greater than 3 years of use.

If you note the San Francisco example of this postmark above, the line "in San Francisco" is omitted. My 3 Hong Kong stamps all have that line included, so I can conclude they were not cancelled in San Francisco, but which city they were cancelled in remains a mystery. I have never seen a complete cover or postcard with this postmark on Hong Kong stamps on cover. I would love to see one. This postmark was used a lot on USA postcards, as my 4 examples are all on postcards. Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess.

Linus

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Ningpo
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16 Nov 2017
11:28:38am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

"Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess."



Very likely, as this was still the postcard rate at the time.

Three years seems a rather long lead up to the exposition to me but perhaps this was normal for this type of event.

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Linus
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11 Mar 2018
06:36:22pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

The most common postmark you will find on Hong Kong Queen Victoria issues is the B62 killer. Shown below are samples from my collection:

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Some of you newer members of Stamporama may not be aware that Hong Kong also used a 62B killer cancel, which is more difficult to find, but if you are keenly aware, these can still be found among dealer stocks of Queen Victoria, if you dig for them. Below are 3 examples that I have found over the years, and are now in my collection.

Linus

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WillLack
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15 Dec 2018
01:45:47pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

here are some new items in my collection of unusual arrival locations for HK stamps
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Oporto, Portugal
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Znaim,( Znojmo) in what is now the Czech Republic - the Austro-Hungarian Empire
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Ornskoldsvik, Sweden
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Odessa, Russian Empire
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Oval 75 Duplex - Birmingham

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jmh67

16 Dec 2018
10:14:52am
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

It is possible, although by no means sure, that these stamps were postmarked upon arrival. Some might have escaped cancellation in Hong Kong (and any post office noticing an uncancelled stamp was supposed to cancel it), and the Swedish postmark might just be an ordinary arrival mark. Of course, it is difficult to tell with loose stamps.

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WillLack
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16 Dec 2018
12:16:02pm
re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

here are some more
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India
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Russian East Asiatic Steamship Co
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Paphos, Cyprus
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Cape Colony, Cape Town
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St Helena,South Atlantic
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Brisbane GPO cancel -apparently a Campbell type 6

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Ningpo

28 Jul 2015
06:18:00pm

The thread entitled, Hong Kong: errors, curiosities and the unidentified has become rather long and is now causing lengthy loading times for some. As suggested, a Part II version is now being started here.



This is the first post Clownof the ‘new’ thread with a modified title to include postmarks.



Below is a rather washed out pair of 20 cent on 30 cent 1891 provisional overprints, with two strikes of a Thursday Island cancellation. The numerals ‘148’ in four concentric rings of dots in an oval pattern, is a Webb Type Bi postmark.

Thursday Island is in the Torres Strait, some 39 kilometres north of Cape York Peninsula, Queensland, Australia.


This marking is attributed to mail arriving on Thursday Island, normally in transit elsewhere; possibly New Zealand.

Although condition is an issue, I felt that the chances of finding another pair with this postmark was very slim, particularly as it is not often found on Hong Kong adhesives.


..............................Image Not Found


The diamond shaped blue lozenge is a company security marking, seemingly applied in fugitive ink which has run; the fugitive green ink used to print the adhesives has washed out too.

EDIT

The following information has been put in this post, in response to a request from JEREMY HODES of http://queenslandstampnumerals.blogspot.co.uk/ who requested measurements of the '148' numerals on the cancellation.

I have tried posting on his blog with no success, so in the hope that he reviews this thread (he has linked to it in his blog) he will find the answer to that question......

Jeremy, my apologies for not responding to your question before now. Only the numerals '1' and '4' can be measured with any degree of accuracy, and even then I am not sure these have been struck fully. Anyway, they measure 5 mm and 5.5 mm respectively.





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Ningpo

30 Jul 2015
08:44:41am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

For those that collect Kong Kong, I would like to bring to your attention the following thread: New website dedicated to forgeries



This is pertinent to collectors of overprints and postmarks in particular, as there is a forgery operation based in Canada that is currently selling on eBay.


http://tinyurl.com/osyc5qy

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Ningpo

30 Jul 2015
02:19:16pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Mr Manyk is of course flaunting the eBay rules regarding forgeries, in that these copies should be marked as such on the back. Despite him being reported in the past, eBay have done nothing as usual.

And today another raft of forgeries has been listed. At the rate he lists (and probably creates them) the market will be flooded in the future.

This could have a severe effect on sellers of genuine material because as the word gets around of this forger's work, the better informed buyer will be reluctant to take any chances.

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Ningpo

30 Jul 2015
02:57:46pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Here's a pair of 1912-1921 Multiple Crown CA 6 cent Brown-orange, with a rather large boxed multi lingual 'STEAMER' marking.

There is another word after steamer within the box that I can't make out and what appears to be one or more characters before it.

I haven't seen this one before and know nothing about it.


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Ningpo

26 Oct 2015
05:46:34pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I happened to spot these two stamps in a small mixed lot, at the opposite ends of a stock card. I thought they may be connected in some way and used the actual auction scan to cut and paste the two together.


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And lo and behold; two stamps showing partial strikes of Nederland Indie 'Tandjong-Priok' ship markings. I didn't have a single example in my collection; and they married up.....

Or so I thought:



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According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!

So the two of them are back 'on the shelf'. Nice little find though, even if I do say so myself.

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WillLack

13 Jan 2016
02:12:05pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Just purchased the following unusual cancels on HK stamps
B127 is Moulmein Burma
Martinique in the Caribbean
Cairo Egypt

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cocollectibles

13 Jan 2016
04:06:25pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

OMG, wonderful! Was this on the Bay?

Peter

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"TO ERR IS HUMAN; TO FORGIVE, CANINE."
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Ningpo

13 Jan 2016
04:32:52pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I'd be very surprised if he did. He has connections you know; I've seen his mugshot on the back of a HK Study Circle bulletin.

Marvellous additions by the way. I personally have not seen any one of these before, not even in an auction catalogue.

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Linus

13 Jan 2016
04:41:52pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

WillLack

Those are great cancels. I have never seen any Hong Kong stamps cancelled in those places before either. Thanks for sharing with us.

Linus

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WillLack

14 Jan 2016
03:07:39pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

really fabulous pieces - put a dent in my stamp spending for the next 4 months or so.... what I really want now is a Malacca cancel, an Aden cancel and maybe a Malta and Gibralter still to find...

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Linus

14 Jan 2016
08:01:06pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

WillLack,

Your Cairo, Egypt cancel with Cook's Tourist Service is from Thomas Cook and Sons, a pioneer in the package tours business out of England that conducted tours around the world. They were so successful running tours up and down the Nile River that they had their own fleet of steamships hauling passengers, tourists, and mail. I have seen this cancel before on Ebay listings. There is lots of information about them on the internet via Google.

I was recently reading about Thomas Cook as I researched the Hong Kong revenue stamp below from my own collection.

Linus

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Ningpo

06 Feb 2016
07:48:57am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I found this block amongst a dealers stock years ago and noticed the bottom left hand stamp had a broken 'W' of 'Wedding'. From 1981, this is SG399 (Scott #373), from a set of three.

I wasn't sure if this was a constant variety or just a one off, so just put it aside:


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Some time later I found this one:


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Then last week I saw an identical marginal block of 8 listed on eBay, with the same variety. So it would seem this is constant but unlisted.

I checked out my newly arrived Yang catalogue, as they tend to list the minor printing varieties, only to find that they have clagged up this particular issue. They have omitted the set completely. It was listed in the previous catalogue but the new one jumps from C156 to C160.

Quelle suprise! I had hoped that Yang might have made a better job of this new catalogue.

Anyway, although only a minor variety (some might say 'a flyspeck'), this is perhaps worth looking out for, as it is a common stamp. It may be listed by somebody...eventually.



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simothecat

06 Feb 2016
11:12:39pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Ningpo: You wrote:

>Or so I thought:



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>According to the Yang catalogue the double ring CDS is supposed to be 20mm. My 'marriage' measured 26mm. Close but no cigar!

My experience is that these cancels of Netherlands Indies (called short bar cancels) are always over 25mm in diameter. And, indeed, aren't the stamps in the picture above more than 22mm high? The 20mm in Yang must be wrong.

Jan

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Ningpo

07 Feb 2016
06:08:31am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Jan,

You are absolutely right. It didn't even dawn on me that 20mm couldn't possibly be correct; these definitives are around 24mm in height, including perfs. So the CDS would have to be that diameter at minimum.

So perhaps the two I found are part of the same strike after all. I should know better than to take Yang's description as gospel.

Thank you for pointing this out. You get the cigar instead. Applause



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Ningpo

07 Feb 2016
08:42:28am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Willack posted a newly acquired strike of the Thomas Cook - Cairo CDS. Another turned up on eBay a week or so ago. This one is on a large piece with two strikes. Interesting recipient! Perhaps the Duke was on a 'grand tour' of the far east:


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Ningpo

10 Feb 2016
01:15:44pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

A new variety addition: Sg134c 'lightning conductor' on chapel:


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WillLack

13 Mar 2016
04:58:59pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

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New additions to my collection of arrival marking on HK

San Francisco cogwheel

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Triest, where Austria Lloyd shipping line had its base

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Russian Post office Shanghai

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Not technically an arrival cancel- Jenny & Co, Manila - but the firm chop is previously unrecorded on HK adhesives - see Rod Sell's site on security markings etc
http://rodsell.com/hksmsic/hksmsic.html



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Linus

17 Mar 2016
11:36:00pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

WillLack,

Those are all nice cancels, thanks for scanning and sharing.

Below is a block of 3 from my collection. Between the two HONG-KONG 19 JUL 41 SHEUNG.WAN cancels is a "HONOLULU HAWAII AUG 16 1941 REGISTERED" cancel. I only wish it was a complete block of 4, but at least it is still together, as is.

Linus

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WillLack

02 Apr 2016
12:13:59pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Wimbledon - sadly did not win this on ebay... ugh
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another Wimbledon
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WillLack

02 Apr 2016
12:15:59pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

An unusual location - (Papua) New Guinea

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WillLack

02 Apr 2016
07:41:33pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Direction marking (Cheribon) Cirebon in West Java Dutch East Indies - Indonesia went on Ebay for £285 sadly not to me - previously unrecorded...

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For more info on Forwarding Markings http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/001_RedirectionMarkings_Jones/@RM_Jones.html

Another Ebay one I missed out on Port Dickson - Malaya - although now a little suspicious as the cancel is very clean and almost too crisp
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Interesting as a chop applied to an envelop - not really a forwarding agents mark, but a nice piece alongside the Tientsin cancel..
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For more info on Forwarding agents marks
http://www.hongkongstudycircle.com/Papers/013-Forwrding-Agents-PO/Forwarding-Agents-List-May.pdf


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WillLack

17 Apr 2016
12:42:04pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

almost sure that the Port Dickson cancel is a fake - blowing it up looks like an inkjet fake - and the seller has form -

look at this terrible fake

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONG-KONG-CHINA-1912-KGV-3-00-SG-114-WITH-SINGAPORE-POSTMARK-/222087748040?hash=item33b57619c8:g:44kAAOSwkx5XEPBL

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WillLack

13 May 2016
04:50:25pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

New York arrival cancel on King Edward VII

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sheepshanks

11 Jun 2016
08:04:59pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Just seen this on ebay, any thoughts on the colour wash out, the red line under the left stamps is not consistent or straight and the paper seems extremely thin.
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Ningpo

12 Jun 2016
10:04:55am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Those red 'Jubilee' margin lines are quite normal for GVI definitive issues. As to the colour; unless this is a poor scan, they are very faded. Looking at the plate number lozenge, the colour has deteriorated from a dull lilac to a grey shade.

There seems to be some colour bleed (or offset) on the RH stamp too.

As for the paper; again this looks quite normal. However, the pair typically (for this 1938 issue) have toned gum. These appear though to have been left in sunlight.


In conclusion; I would avoid these.

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Ningpo

26 Jun 2016
07:09:03pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Here are two strikes of the Japanese Formosa postmark on KEVII adhesives. Both are probably the same date and likely to be no later than 1905.


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It is thought that stamps were purchased on the island from the British Consulate.

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Linus

21 Aug 2016
01:16:23pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I would like to share some Hong Kong postmarks from my collection. For those who like Hong Kong....enjoy!

Linus


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vinman

21 Aug 2016
04:07:42pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I don't collect Hong Kong but I do collect and enjoy cancels. Very nice! Thanks for posting.

Vince

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Ningpo

07 Sep 2016
02:43:54pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Some nice strikes there Linus. I particularly like your straight line Amoy and Statow. You have a very good copy of the large format QV $1.50 'chestnut' revenue stamp, with a part 'Paid-All' fiscal cancellation.

I don't have a copy of that myself.This was issued in 1867. Interestingly, this was the only stamp in that series to be forged (to defraud the revenue). It was crudely printed by woodblock and perforated 10½. Yours is 15½ x 15.

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Ningpo

02 Oct 2016
09:12:42am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I spotted this on an auction site as a 'buy it now'. I noticed the very strange cancellation, which I have never seen before:


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Here's a close-up of the CDS:


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I then tried to isolate the CDS, which was very difficult due to the bottom portion merging into the dark area of the mountain.


This is what I managed to come up with:


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There are no known Hong Kong postmarks with vertical bars in the inner circle, which were used in early Japanese postmarks and some British colonies (perhaps elsewhere too). So The question is, is this an unrecorded postmark type? Well, I suspect that in view of the rather squiffy date slugs, this is bogus.

I am though, rather pleased to have found it.


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Ningpo

12 Oct 2016
10:37:47am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Just received today, which I spotted in a small auction lot, is a barred numeral 556 postmark of CAPE COAST CASTLE, GOLD COAST. An extraordinary destination:


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WillLack

13 Nov 2016
12:01:14pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

wow what a find - if you ever want to sell.....

I am hoping to at some point in the next 10 years write a new book on Hong Kong Arrival Cancellations to replace the 1980 Black and white one- now that scanners and colour printing so much cheaper

Would love to receive scans of arrival markings from non traditional (ie Treaty Port) locations and would credit in the magnum opus I intend to write.

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WillLack

27 Feb 2017
11:33:23am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

here is an unusual Hong Kong arrival marking - Larnaca in Cyprus.....

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and this is an unusual company marking - Railway Property under a Foochow DCS

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sheepshanks

26 Mar 2017
05:53:38pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

During a moment of rest from trying to sort watermarks I found these, the varieties do not seem to be noted in the Scott or SG catalogues. Does Yang mention them.
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The vertical line is more noticeable visually but the scan does not come out to well.
Any thoughts?

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Ningpo

26 Mar 2017
07:58:45pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

These sort of flaws are not listed in any catalogues.

The first 'flaw' you show, seems to be one of those endless variable fly specks that plague this issue; not only on HK but other colonies who were supplied by the same printers. Just page up to my post in this thread, showing the enlarged image of the 'lightning conductor' on chapel. Then look at the rooftop of the same turret as yours - mine looks like a TV aerial; yours looks like a radio aerial.

The second 'line' flaw, is one of many that seem to occur from time to time. Some are more extreme than others. In fact there is another post on this thread: Hong Kong: errors......(Thread Closed)

But to save looking, here it is again (to keep things nice and neat):


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In that thread, I uploaded this image of what I called a 'balloon string' flaw.

There is a whole thread dedicated to these un-catalogued varieties on the 'Australian board'.

I'd imagine that none of these will achieve catalogue status until it can be proven that these are 'constant' varieties. Most we see, seem to be of a more random nature.

My own view is that the rather waxy/viscous ink on the castle vignette, contributes to their appearance.

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sheepshanks

26 Mar 2017
08:45:50pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Thanks Ningpo, guess I'll just keep them as a curiosity and annotate the page accordingly.

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Linus

10 Oct 2017
02:28:41pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

After taking the summer off from my stamp collection, it is time to dive back in, and post on the board again as my contribution to this club. I enjoy everyone's posts on here, and I learn a lot from all of you. Thank you! Perhaps others can learn a little from my lifetime accumulation of stamps and covers.

To my old pal Ningpo, this scan is for you...Ningpo, you there??


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These Hong Kong stamps have the Treaty Port of Ningpo cancellations. Ningpo was about 100 miles south of Shanghai, China, 20 miles inland from the coast on a short navigable river opposite the island of Chusan. Ningpo was one of the 5 original Treaty Ports ceded to Great Britain in 1842. When it was ceded. it was already in British hands, for Chusan was the main base of the British Fleet in the First China War, and the expeditionary force captured Ningpo in October 1841, and wintered there.

Linus

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Ningpo

10 Oct 2017
03:30:03pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Thanks for the mention Linus and welcome back. Nice little cluster there, including the one that's the same as my Avatar. Your's is a bit earlier though.

I did manage to pick up an N1 killer cancel, albeit incomplete. But these now go for silly money.

Hope you have been saving up your coppers over the summer months You might just need them.

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Linus

10 Oct 2017
03:48:56pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I have yet to find the N1 killer, as they seem to be difficult to locate, but I will keep hunting. I am sure a dealer will ask quite a lot for one.

Here is a nice Registered Shanghai Branch Post Office cancellation on a King Edward VII pair that I acquired awhile back, for your enjoyment. Happy

Linus

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Linus

11 Oct 2017
10:31:35am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Below are scans from the Treaty Port of Amoy from my Hong Kong collection. The A1 and D27 were early killer cancellations from Amoy, which was another of the five original Treaty Ports opened under the Treaty of Nanking in 1842.

Linus

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Ningpo

11 Oct 2017
12:22:36pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

Some fine strikes there Linus. The neat placement of these became ever wayward as time progressed.

Getting these complete (or at least, near as damn it), is always a challenge.

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WillLack

17 Oct 2017
07:33:38am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I did not win this on a recent ebay auction but its one I really wanted I think it went for £141 - I was stuck in traffic late on the way home so missed the end and would gone a bit higher than that,
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WillLack

17 Oct 2017
07:35:56am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary
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WillLack

17 Oct 2017
07:37:48am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

How about this to set your pulses racing
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and
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Ningpo

17 Oct 2017
07:06:04pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

"This is an unusual Index letter in the CDS - S which I think is Stanley from memory - will double check and edit if necessary"



If this is from Stanley, you wouldn't have found this in Webb. I would have to check this out by looking at Ted Prouds book.

Stanley had an agency in a police post in the 20's, but I don't think any postmarks have been recorded earlier than 1930 (according to Webb).

In my view, a handstamp of this type would have been made for a much larger post office existing in Victorian times. I don't think any of those tiny branch offices would have warranted such a handstamp (or any for that matter), until postal volumes reached the levels of around the 1910/1920's era; which even then were fairly low.

Aside from my conjecture, an 'S' index is a very desirable find, particularly for the price you paid.

I'll wait to see if you find anything more about this.

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Ningpo

17 Oct 2017
07:34:13pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

The two pieces you have shown adorned with the Jubilee issue, is the most astonishing 'on piece' examples I have ever seen.

Based on my counting and calculations, there are 149 adhesives, and using the current SG 5th edition listing, the catalogue value works out to be £ 19,370 for non variety copies.

It is probable that the gaps are where the varieties were found (if indeed all have been removed).

It is worth noting that all have been struck by the B62 obliterator. The vast majority of Jubilees were cancelled on the first day of issue by a Hong Kong CDS. So it's unfortunate that it's not possible to tell when they were actually canceled.

Furthermore, there was a rather lowly limit on the number of these that were allowed to be bought by individuals; 30 I think to start with. These were reportedly all sold out on the day. So this raises the question of how were so many obtained. No doubt he had some 'assistance' to obtain these.

Where did you find these images?

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WillLack

22 Oct 2017
10:17:29am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

I am a member of a Facebook group Hong Kong Stamps, Covers and Postmarks
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HKSCP/?ref=group_header

One of the other members posted it - it is remarkable - I suppose he must have sent his junior employees to line up and buy as much as they could. I wonder if he had whole sheets CTO and then split it up, i imagine he must have been a dealer surely to lay it out like that...

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Linus

13 Nov 2017
06:18:18pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

These three Hong Kong stamps from my collection all have USA "World's Panama-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco 1915" partial cancellations. This cancel was used in the western United States in many locations. I have scanned 4 examples from my collection of this cancel used at Pasadena, California, San Francisco, California, Seattle, Washington, and Portland, Oregon, to show you what the entire cancellation looked like. Ningpo and WillLack, have you ever seen this cancel used on Hong Kong stamps?

Linus

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Ningpo

15 Nov 2017
12:18:16pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

New to me. And I don't usually miss something out of the ordinary. Any idea how long this slogan was in use for?

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Linus

16 Nov 2017
11:01:39am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

The Panama-Pacific International Exposition was a world's fair that opened in San Francisco on February 20, 1915. The postmark was used to help promote the world's fair. I do not have a reference book detailing the usage of this postmark, but based on the examples from my own collection, the Pasadena, California cancel was used on January 22, 1912, which is over 3 years prior to the opening date of the fair. All I can do to answer your question, Ningpo, is to estimate it at greater than 3 years of use.

If you note the San Francisco example of this postmark above, the line "in San Francisco" is omitted. My 3 Hong Kong stamps all have that line included, so I can conclude they were not cancelled in San Francisco, but which city they were cancelled in remains a mystery. I have never seen a complete cover or postcard with this postmark on Hong Kong stamps on cover. I would love to see one. This postmark was used a lot on USA postcards, as my 4 examples are all on postcards. Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess.

Linus

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Ningpo

16 Nov 2017
11:28:38am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

"Perhaps the Hong Kong stamps came from postcards, too, but that is just a guess."



Very likely, as this was still the postcard rate at the time.

Three years seems a rather long lead up to the exposition to me but perhaps this was normal for this type of event.

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Linus

11 Mar 2018
06:36:22pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

The most common postmark you will find on Hong Kong Queen Victoria issues is the B62 killer. Shown below are samples from my collection:

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Some of you newer members of Stamporama may not be aware that Hong Kong also used a 62B killer cancel, which is more difficult to find, but if you are keenly aware, these can still be found among dealer stocks of Queen Victoria, if you dig for them. Below are 3 examples that I have found over the years, and are now in my collection.

Linus

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WillLack

15 Dec 2018
01:45:47pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

here are some new items in my collection of unusual arrival locations for HK stamps
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Oporto, Portugal
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Znaim,( Znojmo) in what is now the Czech Republic - the Austro-Hungarian Empire
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Ornskoldsvik, Sweden
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Odessa, Russian Empire
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Oval 75 Duplex - Birmingham

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jmh67

16 Dec 2018
10:14:52am

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

It is possible, although by no means sure, that these stamps were postmarked upon arrival. Some might have escaped cancellation in Hong Kong (and any post office noticing an uncancelled stamp was supposed to cancel it), and the Swedish postmark might just be an ordinary arrival mark. Of course, it is difficult to tell with loose stamps.

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WillLack

16 Dec 2018
12:16:02pm

re: Hong Kong: errors, curiosities, postmarks & the unidentified

here are some more
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India
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Russian East Asiatic Steamship Co
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Paphos, Cyprus
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Cape Colony, Cape Town
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St Helena,South Atlantic
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Brisbane GPO cancel -apparently a Campbell type 6

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