Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Login to Like
this post
I believe there may not be any actual post offices in Amsterdam any more - just service points, sort of like a major drug firm in Canada has postal outlets.
My guess, the Amsterdam Centraal Station may have been a distribution point at some time?
Login to Like
this post
Until a few years ago mail was distributed by train. How old is the stamp? My guess is that it is from the first half of the 20th century.
Login to Like
this post
I found the stamp. The year in the cancellation is 1934. It is in an APS sales circuit that I just received. If it is railroad related, I'll buy it. I want to make sure, first.
I found another such cancel on a Scott #333, dated 1952.
Also, why is the cancel in English?
Login to Like
this post
Thanks!
Login to Like
this post
Michael's question can be answered more generic, how to distinguish a Dutch railway cancel. Hope this helps.
There are various types of cancellations depending on the period of usage. From 1909 on there are two types, the square and the round. Both show the place of departure and destination. As a rule of thumb (!) if this lacks it is not a railway cancel.
Chronologicaly:
1839
The first postal items transported by train, on the route Amsterdam-Haarlem.
1855
First travelling post office (TPO) in the Netherlands.
1857
Introduction of boxed train stop stamps (treinhaltestempel) for places at or near railway stops and stations. These stamps are also called framed namestamps (naamstempels met rand). Red ink was regulative, but black ink was also used.
Article 5 of directive 526 of January 7, 1857 stated that:
All letters offered to a mobile post office without a cancel of the post office, must be postmarked with the date stamp of the Expedition Office (Netherlands- Belgium
Railway or Dutch Rhine Railway); and also with a smaller stamp showing the incoming location. Both stamps are to be placed above the address so tariff can be calculated.
22.11.1865: Utrecht - Rotterdam, train stop cancel 'UTRECHT', datestamp 'N R SPOORWEG', also with postman number '65'.
For letters with postage stamps The FRANCO stamp was used with black ink and for printed matters only the date stamp was applied.
It was not allowed to use the stop stamp to cancel the postage stamp. A stamped letter was therefore to be marked with three different stamps. However this rule was repeatedly violated, stop stamps were used a lot instead of the FRANCO cancel.
23.2.1870: Rotterdam - Stettin, train stop cancel 'ROTTERDAM', datestamp 'N R SPOORWEG' and 'FRANCO', all in black.
1875
Small round stamps were introduced for regular mail but also for railway usage. Initially only main post offices got them.
1875: Lisse to Haarlem, via railway Amsterdam-Rotterdam
June 15, 1893
Abolition of the dotted cancel.
July 1908 to November 1909 / type wheel stamp
The 'Munt' created railway section stamps. These were the 'typenraderstempels', large wheel stamps.
These adjustable stamps bear the hourly, daily, monthly and annual figures on rotating cogs along a common axis. The stamps with separate characters were replaced.
1910: Via Breda-Arnhem railway to Haarlem.
After 1910 used next to the cancels described below.
April 1909 / square block cancel
The 'Munt' created four test designs for the square railway cancel (treinblokstempel).
October 1909
Two handcancels were chosen. These consisted of three parts, a fixed center date part and two changeable place name blocks:
-depart: at the top
-destination: at bottom.
In this setup the conductor had only two cancels, one for the way up and one for the way back. A significant improvement because there were conductors that had to carry a set of 12 cancels.
1910
It was decided to use the 'treinblokstempel' for trains, trams and ships.
Other usage of the square block cancel
1919
PER POST ONTVANGEN
Created on October 23 1919, provided to the Rijkstelegraaf kantoor (telegraph office) in Rotterdam on the 27th. Used to indicate material received per post. This cancel has round corners instead of squared. Marking:
PER POST ONTVANGEN / 25.XII.19 7-8 V / TE ROTTERDAM
The 'Treinblokstempels' were also used for special events twice.
1933
Congres van den Centralen Bond van Nederlandsch P.T.T.-Personeel (Congress of the Central Union of Dutch Post, Telegraph and Telegram employees). Held in Amsterdam 27-29 April 1933. Cancel in black and blue. Marking:
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 IV 33 II / AMSTERDAM
1937
Same Congress but held in Vlissingen 27-29 May 1937. Cancel in black. Marking:
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 V 37 IX / VLISSINGEN.
In the postmark book of the 'Munt' two other cancels are noted:
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 V 37 IV / SCHEVENINGEN
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 V 37 IX / AMSTERDAM
I don't know if these last ones were actually used.
1979
Last operating year of the TPO.
See also: http://poststempels.nedacademievoorfilatelie.nl/
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks for the additional information.
Login to Like
this post
To the additional post office housed in the Amsterdam central railway station various handstamps were provided in time:
September 15, 1882
AMSTERDAM-STN (small circular)
June 30, 1884
AMST:-C:STATION (small circular)
October 29, 1889
AMSTERDAM C:STATION (small circular)
July 4, 1896
AMSTERDAM C:STATION (large circular)
1898
According administrative command No. 2599 of 24 Februari 1898, Amsterdam Central Station was marked as number 14 of the additional post offices (Bijpostkantoor) of Amsterdam.
Here starts a list of number 1 cancels. The range however is much more extensive, from 1-69:
http://poststempels.nedacademievoorfilatelie.nl/images/PDF/08%20AMSTERDAM%20Centraal%20Station.pdf
August 12, 1906 in use to January 20, 1910
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel)
January 21, 1910, in use to March 20, 1916
AMSTERDAM CENTR.STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, open bar)
March 21, 1916, in use to August 17, 1929
AMSTERDAM CENTR.STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
August 18, 1929, in use to December 16, 1935
AMSTERDAM-CENTR. STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
December 17, 1935, in use to June 21, 1950
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
June 22, 1950, in use to December 31, 1967
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
January 1, 1968
'STATION' and/or 'CENTRAAL STATION' was discarded (see administrative command H570/1979).
****
From June 30, 1884 additional handstamps were provided the central station post office, to be used only for parcel post.
Example:
AMST:-C:STATION P:P.
Source: Nederlandse academie voor filatelie, Amsterdam Centraal Station, pages 300-302, 'Bijpostkantoren Amsterdam tot en met Utrecht' 612, 660.
Login to Like
this post
The airmail cover to China, shown above, bears the cancel used between 1935-1950, (1):
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1938 /25.III.13 / 1
Unusual destination: Amoy China. Nice cover!
Could you show the backside (if it has any markings)?
Login to Like
this post
10:54:37am
On a Netherlands stamp there is a circular cancel with "Amsterdam Central Station". Is this just a post office, railroad-related, or both?
Login to Like
this post
12:03:53pm
re: Amsterdam Central Station
I believe there may not be any actual post offices in Amsterdam any more - just service points, sort of like a major drug firm in Canada has postal outlets.
My guess, the Amsterdam Centraal Station may have been a distribution point at some time?
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Amsterdam Central Station
Until a few years ago mail was distributed by train. How old is the stamp? My guess is that it is from the first half of the 20th century.
Login to Like
this post
05:44:07pm
re: Amsterdam Central Station
I found the stamp. The year in the cancellation is 1934. It is in an APS sales circuit that I just received. If it is railroad related, I'll buy it. I want to make sure, first.
I found another such cancel on a Scott #333, dated 1952.
Also, why is the cancel in English?
Login to Like
this post
re: Amsterdam Central Station
Michael's question can be answered more generic, how to distinguish a Dutch railway cancel. Hope this helps.
There are various types of cancellations depending on the period of usage. From 1909 on there are two types, the square and the round. Both show the place of departure and destination. As a rule of thumb (!) if this lacks it is not a railway cancel.
Chronologicaly:
1839
The first postal items transported by train, on the route Amsterdam-Haarlem.
1855
First travelling post office (TPO) in the Netherlands.
1857
Introduction of boxed train stop stamps (treinhaltestempel) for places at or near railway stops and stations. These stamps are also called framed namestamps (naamstempels met rand). Red ink was regulative, but black ink was also used.
Article 5 of directive 526 of January 7, 1857 stated that:
All letters offered to a mobile post office without a cancel of the post office, must be postmarked with the date stamp of the Expedition Office (Netherlands- Belgium
Railway or Dutch Rhine Railway); and also with a smaller stamp showing the incoming location. Both stamps are to be placed above the address so tariff can be calculated.
22.11.1865: Utrecht - Rotterdam, train stop cancel 'UTRECHT', datestamp 'N R SPOORWEG', also with postman number '65'.
For letters with postage stamps The FRANCO stamp was used with black ink and for printed matters only the date stamp was applied.
It was not allowed to use the stop stamp to cancel the postage stamp. A stamped letter was therefore to be marked with three different stamps. However this rule was repeatedly violated, stop stamps were used a lot instead of the FRANCO cancel.
23.2.1870: Rotterdam - Stettin, train stop cancel 'ROTTERDAM', datestamp 'N R SPOORWEG' and 'FRANCO', all in black.
1875
Small round stamps were introduced for regular mail but also for railway usage. Initially only main post offices got them.
1875: Lisse to Haarlem, via railway Amsterdam-Rotterdam
June 15, 1893
Abolition of the dotted cancel.
July 1908 to November 1909 / type wheel stamp
The 'Munt' created railway section stamps. These were the 'typenraderstempels', large wheel stamps.
These adjustable stamps bear the hourly, daily, monthly and annual figures on rotating cogs along a common axis. The stamps with separate characters were replaced.
1910: Via Breda-Arnhem railway to Haarlem.
After 1910 used next to the cancels described below.
April 1909 / square block cancel
The 'Munt' created four test designs for the square railway cancel (treinblokstempel).
October 1909
Two handcancels were chosen. These consisted of three parts, a fixed center date part and two changeable place name blocks:
-depart: at the top
-destination: at bottom.
In this setup the conductor had only two cancels, one for the way up and one for the way back. A significant improvement because there were conductors that had to carry a set of 12 cancels.
1910
It was decided to use the 'treinblokstempel' for trains, trams and ships.
Other usage of the square block cancel
1919
PER POST ONTVANGEN
Created on October 23 1919, provided to the Rijkstelegraaf kantoor (telegraph office) in Rotterdam on the 27th. Used to indicate material received per post. This cancel has round corners instead of squared. Marking:
PER POST ONTVANGEN / 25.XII.19 7-8 V / TE ROTTERDAM
The 'Treinblokstempels' were also used for special events twice.
1933
Congres van den Centralen Bond van Nederlandsch P.T.T.-Personeel (Congress of the Central Union of Dutch Post, Telegraph and Telegram employees). Held in Amsterdam 27-29 April 1933. Cancel in black and blue. Marking:
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 IV 33 II / AMSTERDAM
1937
Same Congress but held in Vlissingen 27-29 May 1937. Cancel in black. Marking:
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 V 37 IX / VLISSINGEN.
In the postmark book of the 'Munt' two other cancels are noted:
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 V 37 IV / SCHEVENINGEN
CBPTT-CONGRES / 27 V 37 IX / AMSTERDAM
I don't know if these last ones were actually used.
1979
Last operating year of the TPO.
See also: http://poststempels.nedacademievoorfilatelie.nl/
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
10:21:53am
re: Amsterdam Central Station
Thanks for the additional information.
Login to Like
this post
re: Amsterdam Central Station
To the additional post office housed in the Amsterdam central railway station various handstamps were provided in time:
September 15, 1882
AMSTERDAM-STN (small circular)
June 30, 1884
AMST:-C:STATION (small circular)
October 29, 1889
AMSTERDAM C:STATION (small circular)
July 4, 1896
AMSTERDAM C:STATION (large circular)
1898
According administrative command No. 2599 of 24 Februari 1898, Amsterdam Central Station was marked as number 14 of the additional post offices (Bijpostkantoor) of Amsterdam.
Here starts a list of number 1 cancels. The range however is much more extensive, from 1-69:
http://poststempels.nedacademievoorfilatelie.nl/images/PDF/08%20AMSTERDAM%20Centraal%20Station.pdf
August 12, 1906 in use to January 20, 1910
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel)
January 21, 1910, in use to March 20, 1916
AMSTERDAM CENTR.STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, open bar)
March 21, 1916, in use to August 17, 1929
AMSTERDAM CENTR.STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
August 18, 1929, in use to December 16, 1935
AMSTERDAM-CENTR. STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
December 17, 1935, in use to June 21, 1950
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
June 22, 1950, in use to December 31, 1967
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1 (typerader / large wheel cancel, closed bar)
January 1, 1968
'STATION' and/or 'CENTRAAL STATION' was discarded (see administrative command H570/1979).
****
From June 30, 1884 additional handstamps were provided the central station post office, to be used only for parcel post.
Example:
AMST:-C:STATION P:P.
Source: Nederlandse academie voor filatelie, Amsterdam Centraal Station, pages 300-302, 'Bijpostkantoren Amsterdam tot en met Utrecht' 612, 660.
Login to Like
this post
re: Amsterdam Central Station
The airmail cover to China, shown above, bears the cancel used between 1935-1950, (1):
AMSTERDAM-CENTRAAL STATION 1938 /25.III.13 / 1
Unusual destination: Amoy China. Nice cover!
Could you show the backside (if it has any markings)?
Login to Like
this post