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United States/Covers & Postmarks : Tiny Covers

 

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vinman
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18 Nov 2015
07:25:05pm
Here is a scan of some covers I found in a mixed lot at my local stamp club last night. These are the smallest covers I have, they will go into the odds and ends collection. The smallest measures 55mm x 80mm. There are no markings in the backs.
Vince
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Doe
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18 Nov 2015
08:39:54pm
re: Tiny Covers

Very nice covers! I have a few in my my 300 collection. They are a special kind of fun. Happy

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ikeyPikey
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18 Nov 2015
09:08:45pm
re: Tiny Covers

80mm! My smallest (108mm) ain't that small, but it is Government Issue. Cheers,

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Bobstamp
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24 Nov 2015
10:50:54pm
re: Tiny Covers

My smallest cover is this one — 92 X 57 mm.

Image Not Found

It was posted September 10, 1942 by a Jewish refugee in the internment camp at Isle Aux Nois, Quebec.

Considering the current crisis that Syrian refugees are experiencing, the history of Jewish internment in Canada is worth considering. Here's a write-up I did a few years ago about this cover's provenance:

---

In 1938, after the infamous Kristallnacht, when Nazi thugs vandalized and burned Jewish businesses and synagogues, 10,000 Jewish males Jews from Germany and Austria were allowed to enter Britain as refugees. In the late spring of 1940, following the debacle at Dunkirk and fearing sabotage by Nazi “fifth columnists” among the refugee, the British government ordered the arrest of thousands of them. Winston Churchill is said to have growled “Collar the lot!”

Overwhelmed by the costs both in money and labour of incarcerating so many young men, the British pleaded for help from the Dominions, and both Canada and Australia agreed to accept them. About 1,800 of these young Jewish men, aged 16 to 65, were labelled as “dangerous Nazis” and sent to Canada for internment. They had fled the terror of the Third Reich, and were greeted at Québec by troops with fixed bayonets and incarcerated as prisoners of war in various camps across Canada. Some went to Ripples, New Brunswick, where they they had to share living space with actual Nazis POWs.

There followed several incidents in which Nazis threatened and intimidated the Jewish prisoners, who were eventually separated from their tormentors by nothing more than barbed wire. Canadian authorities eventually reconsidered the status of these men and most were relocated most of them to Fort Lennox, Québec, on Île aux noix (Nut Island) in the Richelieu River about 50 miles west-southwest of Trois Rivieres. The barbed wire around the fort was mostly removed, and the men of the Veterans’ Guard of Canada and the local villagers from nearby Saint Paul did what they could to help.  And, in fact, the prisoners made the most of their internment: many of them were scholars, artists, and musicians who created an intellectual community complete with schools where students could complete their high school education and begin working on university-level courses.  

These innocent and persecuted men were gradually freed but it was only at the end of 1943 that the last 83, by then transferred to Hull, Quebec, across the Ottawa River from Ottawa, were released. They were told not to reveal their internment. Many remained in Canada to start a new life.


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vinman
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06 Dec 2015
02:38:10pm
re: Tiny Covers

Here are a few new covers for my tiny cover collection. They also fit into my mourning cover collection. The smallest is 55x80 mm and the largest is 60x100 mm.
Vince
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rwillis29
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13 Dec 2015
06:39:00pm
re: Tiny Covers

I had a little board that was mailed. Inch x two and a half x 1/4 in thick with 2 cent Washington on it. Address on one side message on the other side. Can't find it anymore. I will keep looking for it.

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

13 Dec 2015
09:07:52pm
re: Tiny Covers

Vince, is there any connection between these covers being small and also being mourning covers? Were most mourning covers of that time and region intentionally small, and if so, why? As a sign of circumspection or grief, perhaps?

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vinman
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14 Dec 2015
10:39:20am
re: Tiny Covers

Hello Douglas,
I think the smaller covers were sent as a thank you to those who sent their condolences. From what I learned about mourning covers from "Mourning Covers" The Cultural and Postal History of Letters Edged in Black, Harbingers of Death, messengers of Grief by Ernest A. Mosher size didn't hold any special meaning, I also have a cover from Switzerland that measures 6 1/2 by 9 inches. The size of the black banding also varied. Mourning covers are recorded from 217 countries from Aden to Zanzibar.

Vince

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ikeyPikey
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14 Dec 2015
11:12:19am
re: Tiny Covers

I am inclined to co-speculate with Douglas that size matters; this was no time to be gaudy.

I recently read The Invention of Wings by Sue Monk Kidd which, while not authoritative history, was a well-researched book, and the mourning practices set out for the early 1800s included draping the mirrors, modest dress and, if memory serves, even putting away the good silver.

I suspect that (all) small covers became known as mourning covers precisely because this was a distinct & purposeful & common use.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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lisagrant87
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis

17 Dec 2015
10:03:55pm
re: Tiny Covers

These are fantastic! I'll have to start perusing auctions to find some!

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pedroguy
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17 Dec 2015
10:34:39pm
re: Tiny Covers

Image Not FoundTop & bottom measure 4.5"x3.5" Middle 4.5"x3"

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vinman
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25 Jan 2016
10:52:15pm
re: Tiny Covers

Here is the newest addition to my tiny cover collection. It measures 72mm x 45mm. My smallest cover yet.

Image Not Found

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vinman
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25 Jan 2016
10:57:54pm
re: Tiny Covers

Hi ikeyPikey,

Your response on 14dec2015 "I suspect that (all) small covers became known as mourning covers precisely because this was a distinct & purposeful & common use." is not correct. Mourning covers came in all sizes even tiny size. What sets an mourning cover apart is the black edging on the cover not the size.

Vince

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

25 Jan 2016
11:05:44pm

Auctions
re: Tiny Covers

very nice Vince.... Brooklyn was still an independent city then; Warwick is up the Hudson, great apple country

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ikeyPikey
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26 Jan 2016
12:53:10am
re: Tiny Covers

"... What sets an mourning cover apart is the black edging on the cover not the size ..."



Yes, Vince, the use of "mourning cover" is very specific. My bad. Uh-oh ...

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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vinman
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26 Jan 2016
08:21:14am
re: Tiny Covers

My bad, that's funny. Different thread.Laughing

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

26 Jan 2016
07:32:49pm
re: Tiny Covers

"I suspect that (all) small covers became known as mourning covers precisely because this was a distinct & purposeful & common use."



and on eBay every cover with a tiny return address is called an advertising cover!

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

27 Jan 2016
12:15:32am
re: Tiny Covers

My example of a mourning cover is rather small (but not as small as the examples shown). Another category of "smallish" covers would be "Ladies' covers". I believe they were typically embossed around the border.

Lars

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vinman
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27 Jan 2016
03:01:58pm
re: Tiny Covers

Hi Lars,
I am familiar with the term "ladie's covers" and always just assumed it to mean a smaller than normal cover, sometimes with embossing of the cover front. Now I am not sure what differentiates a ladies cover from a tiny cover. A couple of my "tiny" covers held a thank you card so I am guessing that was probably the use of such small covers.

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Doe
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01 Feb 2016
05:54:32pm
re: Tiny Covers

Here's one of my minis.


Image Not Found

Image Not Found

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

04 Feb 2016
11:30:34pm
re: Tiny Covers

vinman,

I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but my personal definition of a Ladies' Cover would be a smaller envelope with embossing around the border. There would be other small envelopes (like Wedding RSVP envelopes) that would not be considered a Ladies' Cover, and there were small "mourning covers" (with a black border).

It seems that "tiny" covers are those that push (or even break) the rules for how small of an envelope can go through the mail. Personally, I would categorize any "tiny" envelope that violated the rules when it was postmarked as an "illegal cover". That's another fun area!

Lars

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snowy12
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09 Apr 2016
01:07:59am

Auctions
re: Tiny Covers

I have just come across this tiny cover From Romania to Russia ,funny the stamps are not cancelled but it has a postal mark on the back which I can't make out,any one help?
size is 103mm x 64 mm
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Brian

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
vinman

18 Nov 2015
07:25:05pm

Here is a scan of some covers I found in a mixed lot at my local stamp club last night. These are the smallest covers I have, they will go into the odds and ends collection. The smallest measures 55mm x 80mm. There are no markings in the backs.
Vince
Image Not Found

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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

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Doe

18 Nov 2015
08:39:54pm

re: Tiny Covers

Very nice covers! I have a few in my my 300 collection. They are a special kind of fun. Happy

Like
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this post
Members Picture
ikeyPikey

18 Nov 2015
09:08:45pm

re: Tiny Covers

80mm! My smallest (108mm) ain't that small, but it is Government Issue. Cheers,

Image Not Found

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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
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Bobstamp

24 Nov 2015
10:50:54pm

re: Tiny Covers

My smallest cover is this one — 92 X 57 mm.

Image Not Found

It was posted September 10, 1942 by a Jewish refugee in the internment camp at Isle Aux Nois, Quebec.

Considering the current crisis that Syrian refugees are experiencing, the history of Jewish internment in Canada is worth considering. Here's a write-up I did a few years ago about this cover's provenance:

---

In 1938, after the infamous Kristallnacht, when Nazi thugs vandalized and burned Jewish businesses and synagogues, 10,000 Jewish males Jews from Germany and Austria were allowed to enter Britain as refugees. In the late spring of 1940, following the debacle at Dunkirk and fearing sabotage by Nazi “fifth columnists” among the refugee, the British government ordered the arrest of thousands of them. Winston Churchill is said to have growled “Collar the lot!”

Overwhelmed by the costs both in money and labour of incarcerating so many young men, the British pleaded for help from the Dominions, and both Canada and Australia agreed to accept them. About 1,800 of these young Jewish men, aged 16 to 65, were labelled as “dangerous Nazis” and sent to Canada for internment. They had fled the terror of the Third Reich, and were greeted at Québec by troops with fixed bayonets and incarcerated as prisoners of war in various camps across Canada. Some went to Ripples, New Brunswick, where they they had to share living space with actual Nazis POWs.

There followed several incidents in which Nazis threatened and intimidated the Jewish prisoners, who were eventually separated from their tormentors by nothing more than barbed wire. Canadian authorities eventually reconsidered the status of these men and most were relocated most of them to Fort Lennox, Québec, on Île aux noix (Nut Island) in the Richelieu River about 50 miles west-southwest of Trois Rivieres. The barbed wire around the fort was mostly removed, and the men of the Veterans’ Guard of Canada and the local villagers from nearby Saint Paul did what they could to help.  And, in fact, the prisoners made the most of their internment: many of them were scholars, artists, and musicians who created an intellectual community complete with schools where students could complete their high school education and begin working on university-level courses.  

These innocent and persecuted men were gradually freed but it was only at the end of 1943 that the last 83, by then transferred to Hull, Quebec, across the Ottawa River from Ottawa, were released. They were told not to reveal their internment. Many remained in Canada to start a new life.


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vinman

06 Dec 2015
02:38:10pm

re: Tiny Covers

Here are a few new covers for my tiny cover collection. They also fit into my mourning cover collection. The smallest is 55x80 mm and the largest is 60x100 mm.
Vince
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

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rwillis29

13 Dec 2015
06:39:00pm

re: Tiny Covers

I had a little board that was mailed. Inch x two and a half x 1/4 in thick with 2 cent Washington on it. Address on one side message on the other side. Can't find it anymore. I will keep looking for it.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
13 Dec 2015
09:07:52pm

re: Tiny Covers

Vince, is there any connection between these covers being small and also being mourning covers? Were most mourning covers of that time and region intentionally small, and if so, why? As a sign of circumspection or grief, perhaps?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"All hobbies are absurd to those on the outside, and a joy to those within."
Members Picture
vinman

14 Dec 2015
10:39:20am

re: Tiny Covers

Hello Douglas,
I think the smaller covers were sent as a thank you to those who sent their condolences. From what I learned about mourning covers from "Mourning Covers" The Cultural and Postal History of Letters Edged in Black, Harbingers of Death, messengers of Grief by Ernest A. Mosher size didn't hold any special meaning, I also have a cover from Switzerland that measures 6 1/2 by 9 inches. The size of the black banding also varied. Mourning covers are recorded from 217 countries from Aden to Zanzibar.

Vince

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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

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ikeyPikey

14 Dec 2015
11:12:19am

re: Tiny Covers

I am inclined to co-speculate with Douglas that size matters; this was no time to be gaudy.

I recently read The Invention of Wings by Sue Monk Kidd which, while not authoritative history, was a well-researched book, and the mourning practices set out for the early 1800s included draping the mirrors, modest dress and, if memory serves, even putting away the good silver.

I suspect that (all) small covers became known as mourning covers precisely because this was a distinct & purposeful & common use.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."

It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
17 Dec 2015
10:03:55pm

re: Tiny Covers

These are fantastic! I'll have to start perusing auctions to find some!

Like
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this post

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

lisaslunacy.com
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pedroguy

17 Dec 2015
10:34:39pm

re: Tiny Covers

Image Not FoundTop & bottom measure 4.5"x3.5" Middle 4.5"x3"

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vinman

25 Jan 2016
10:52:15pm

re: Tiny Covers

Here is the newest addition to my tiny cover collection. It measures 72mm x 45mm. My smallest cover yet.

Image Not Found

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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

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vinman

25 Jan 2016
10:57:54pm

re: Tiny Covers

Hi ikeyPikey,

Your response on 14dec2015 "I suspect that (all) small covers became known as mourning covers precisely because this was a distinct & purposeful & common use." is not correct. Mourning covers came in all sizes even tiny size. What sets an mourning cover apart is the black edging on the cover not the size.

Vince

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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
25 Jan 2016
11:05:44pm

Auctions

re: Tiny Covers

very nice Vince.... Brooklyn was still an independent city then; Warwick is up the Hudson, great apple country

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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Members Picture
ikeyPikey

26 Jan 2016
12:53:10am

re: Tiny Covers

"... What sets an mourning cover apart is the black edging on the cover not the size ..."



Yes, Vince, the use of "mourning cover" is very specific. My bad. Uh-oh ...

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
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vinman

26 Jan 2016
08:21:14am

re: Tiny Covers

My bad, that's funny. Different thread.Laughing

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
26 Jan 2016
07:32:49pm

re: Tiny Covers

"I suspect that (all) small covers became known as mourning covers precisely because this was a distinct & purposeful & common use."



and on eBay every cover with a tiny return address is called an advertising cover!

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"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
27 Jan 2016
12:15:32am

re: Tiny Covers

My example of a mourning cover is rather small (but not as small as the examples shown). Another category of "smallish" covers would be "Ladies' covers". I believe they were typically embossed around the border.

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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Members Picture
vinman

27 Jan 2016
03:01:58pm

re: Tiny Covers

Hi Lars,
I am familiar with the term "ladie's covers" and always just assumed it to mean a smaller than normal cover, sometimes with embossing of the cover front. Now I am not sure what differentiates a ladies cover from a tiny cover. A couple of my "tiny" covers held a thank you card so I am guessing that was probably the use of such small covers.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

wrdv.org/
Members Picture
Doe

01 Feb 2016
05:54:32pm

re: Tiny Covers

Here's one of my minis.


Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
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Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
04 Feb 2016
11:30:34pm

re: Tiny Covers

vinman,

I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but my personal definition of a Ladies' Cover would be a smaller envelope with embossing around the border. There would be other small envelopes (like Wedding RSVP envelopes) that would not be considered a Ladies' Cover, and there were small "mourning covers" (with a black border).

It seems that "tiny" covers are those that push (or even break) the rules for how small of an envelope can go through the mail. Personally, I would categorize any "tiny" envelope that violated the rules when it was postmarked as an "illegal cover". That's another fun area!

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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Members Picture
snowy12

09 Apr 2016
01:07:59am

Auctions

re: Tiny Covers

I have just come across this tiny cover From Romania to Russia ,funny the stamps are not cancelled but it has a postal mark on the back which I can't make out,any one help?
size is 103mm x 64 mm
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Brian

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