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Latin America/All : Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

 

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keesindy
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18 May 2016
11:47:07pm
One of the collections I bought back in the 1980s was a circa 1950 Nicaragua collection in a French album. Several of the back of book stamps are not listed in my Scott Classic Specialized Catalogue. These two stamps were on an album page with the title as shown in the third image below. They are apparently from 1896 and the green stamp has an 1897 cancel. The other has no obvious cancel. I have the impression these are cigarette tax stamps or seals of some sort, but don't really know. The size is approximately 45 by 25 mm. Unfortunately, after I moved the stamps to my own page and cut out that title from the old album page, I must have discarded the remainder of the page.

I assume Yvert catalog numbers were used in the album, but don't know.

Can someone help identify these? I was able to determine that Armoiries is French for coat of arms and Denteles is perforation.

If anyone has a Yvert or other catalog in which they are listed, I would appreciate the catalog numbers and values if it is not too much trouble.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Thank you!

Tom
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khj
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19 May 2016
12:11:19am
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

These are post office seals from Nicaragua. Sorry, I don't have a catalog that covers them.

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khj
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19 May 2016
12:20:08am
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

I did some searching of your specific stamp. According to the Witt collection, they are called "return stamps" (which is the translation of "timbres de retour"). The Witt collection states that they are listed in Yvert.

I have always seen them referred to as official post office seals. They exist for several South American countries, including Ecuador and Chile. I guess I'm not exactly sure what is meant by "return stamp".

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SWH
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19 May 2016
02:35:42am
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

The stamps are indeed listed in Yvert as 'timbres de retour'. These two are the only ones listed as such for Nicaragua. In my 1995 edition of Yvert they are valued at $ 0.5 each.

Timbre de retour or cierro official as it says on the stamps would seem to mean officially sealed. They were used to seal envelopes that had been opened or damaged at the post office. Apparently many countries have issued such stamps including the US.

Please also refer to: http://www.filaposta.com/glosario/tiki-index.php?page=cierro+oficial

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khj
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19 May 2016
02:53:29am
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

Thanks, SWH! I had always been under the impression that the stamps inscribed "cierro oficial" were post office seals.

I guess the Witt Collection used an odd translation for timbres de retour.

Yes, the US post office has them as well. I have several, and they are listed in the Scott US Specialized Catalog.

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scb
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Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!

19 May 2016
02:55:17am
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

"The stamps are indeed listed in Yvert as 'timbres de retour'. These two are the only ones listed as such for Nicaragua. In my 1995 edition of Yvert they are valued at $ 0.5 each. "



I've got the 1995 edition as well, as well as 2005 Classiques du Monde. 100% same details and values in both.

-k-

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keesindy
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19 May 2016
02:37:08pm
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

You guys are great! And fast!

I don't know where I got the idea these might be associated with tobacco.

It's always great to learn something new. My effort to get translations led to "close," but the more accurate translation obviously would be "re-close" in this case.

I appreciate the explanation and the info from the Yvert catalogs. but their values are even worse that I expected! Happy

Also, SWH, thanks for that filaposta link!

Kim, I don't believe I've ever encountered the Witt cinderella collection before and have now bookmarked it. It seems to use a very broad definition of "cinderella."

Thanks for all the help!

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smauggie
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20 May 2016
09:14:00am
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

Just a side note, the "Cierre Oficial" stamps were often used to officially seal registered mail. I have some from Mexico and Panama.

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keesindy
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20 May 2016
06:35:00pm
re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

Thanks, smauggie, for that additional bit of information!

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keesindy

18 May 2016
11:47:07pm

One of the collections I bought back in the 1980s was a circa 1950 Nicaragua collection in a French album. Several of the back of book stamps are not listed in my Scott Classic Specialized Catalogue. These two stamps were on an album page with the title as shown in the third image below. They are apparently from 1896 and the green stamp has an 1897 cancel. The other has no obvious cancel. I have the impression these are cigarette tax stamps or seals of some sort, but don't really know. The size is approximately 45 by 25 mm. Unfortunately, after I moved the stamps to my own page and cut out that title from the old album page, I must have discarded the remainder of the page.

I assume Yvert catalog numbers were used in the album, but don't know.

Can someone help identify these? I was able to determine that Armoiries is French for coat of arms and Denteles is perforation.

If anyone has a Yvert or other catalog in which they are listed, I would appreciate the catalog numbers and values if it is not too much trouble.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Thank you!

Tom

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"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
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khj

19 May 2016
12:11:19am

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

These are post office seals from Nicaragua. Sorry, I don't have a catalog that covers them.

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this post
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2016
12:20:08am

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

I did some searching of your specific stamp. According to the Witt collection, they are called "return stamps" (which is the translation of "timbres de retour"). The Witt collection states that they are listed in Yvert.

I have always seen them referred to as official post office seals. They exist for several South American countries, including Ecuador and Chile. I guess I'm not exactly sure what is meant by "return stamp".

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
SWH

19 May 2016
02:35:42am

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

The stamps are indeed listed in Yvert as 'timbres de retour'. These two are the only ones listed as such for Nicaragua. In my 1995 edition of Yvert they are valued at $ 0.5 each.

Timbre de retour or cierro official as it says on the stamps would seem to mean officially sealed. They were used to seal envelopes that had been opened or damaged at the post office. Apparently many countries have issued such stamps including the US.

Please also refer to: http://www.filaposta.com/glosario/tiki-index.php?page=cierro+oficial

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Login to Like
this post

www.stampworldhistor ...
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2016
02:53:29am

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

Thanks, SWH! I had always been under the impression that the stamps inscribed "cierro oficial" were post office seals.

I guess the Witt Collection used an odd translation for timbres de retour.

Yes, the US post office has them as well. I have several, and they are listed in the Scott US Specialized Catalog.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
scb

Collecting the world 1840 to date - one stamp at a time!
19 May 2016
02:55:17am

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

"The stamps are indeed listed in Yvert as 'timbres de retour'. These two are the only ones listed as such for Nicaragua. In my 1995 edition of Yvert they are valued at $ 0.5 each. "



I've got the 1995 edition as well, as well as 2005 Classiques du Monde. 100% same details and values in both.

-k-

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www.stampcollectingb ...
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keesindy

19 May 2016
02:37:08pm

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

You guys are great! And fast!

I don't know where I got the idea these might be associated with tobacco.

It's always great to learn something new. My effort to get translations led to "close," but the more accurate translation obviously would be "re-close" in this case.

I appreciate the explanation and the info from the Yvert catalogs. but their values are even worse that I expected! Happy

Also, SWH, thanks for that filaposta link!

Kim, I don't believe I've ever encountered the Witt cinderella collection before and have now bookmarked it. It seems to use a very broad definition of "cinderella."

Thanks for all the help!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
Members Picture
smauggie

20 May 2016
09:14:00am

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

Just a side note, the "Cierre Oficial" stamps were often used to officially seal registered mail. I have some from Mexico and Panama.

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Login to Like
this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...
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keesindy

20 May 2016
06:35:00pm

re: Need help with Nicaragua "timbres de retour" stamps

Thanks, smauggie, for that additional bit of information!

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"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
        

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