Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
This design has the globe with the diagonal lines on it.
131 1909-1912 WM #61 14x14.5 Design #A42 (A35 Redrawn) Carmine
177 1925 WM#61 (Usually in blue) 14x14.5 Design #A42 (A35 Redrawn) Carmine
Thanks for any help!
Adam
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Scott 131 is a normal stamp with regular watermark.
Scott 177 is on unwatermarked paper and has a printed watermark on the back which is usually in blue although some copies are printed in black and some are noted as colorless.
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I would like to know how do they put a color watermark on the paper.
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It is printed - per Gibbons: "No wmk, but bluish "NZ" and star lithographed on back. Art Paper"
Scott lists two varieties, Gibbons lists 7 different varieties as New Zealand #405 through 411.
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What I really need to know is how you would IDENTIFY the different varieties of the 177 stamp?
Thanks!
Adam
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As to the original question identification is easy - the 177 has a PRINTED star and NZ on the back - printed in ink, just like the front. It is on unwatermarked paper.
If you want to know all of the different varieties you need to get a Stanley Gibbons catalog. There are several different paper types; several different gum varieties; regular, inverted, reversed and "inverted and reversed" watermark varieties, 4 or 5 different colors,etc.
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09:56:08am
Gibbons published a Commonwealth catalog that is available used and will be most helpful with varieties of issues. Since in this case you are discussing 100 year old issues a spanking new set is not needed as the essential info does not change every year very much.
You can find such volumes on eBay or at stamp shows at a great discount.
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Well I found one on ebay, but only 1 and the shipping is $20.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Gibbons-New-Zealand-catalogue-4th-Edition-2010-VGC-/191952543728?hash=item2cb1435ff0:g:l3cAAOSw6n5XvIa-
Maybe I will find someone who has one in the US to save on shipping. I'll keep on searching.
Adam
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If you just want a reference for ID one of the old "Part I - British Commonwealth" catalogs will do fine ..... here's one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-STANLEY-GIBBONS-STAMP-CATALOGUE-PART-I-British-Commonwealth-/222220461174?hash=item33bd5f2476:g:hjUAAOSw0HVWAeZa
It has Great Britain and all the colonies. At some point in time SG played with catalog numbers so while you will know what you are looking for the catalog number will not be the same as in the current SG catalog.
If you want a newer one you are looking for "Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps 1840-1952." Mine is a 2004 Edition which I paid aroung $25 for - most are in the $40 range but the are indispensable for British stamps. It covers Great Britain and all of the colonies. New it will set you back over $100 - unless there is some compelling reason you don't need new.
BTW - it appears ebay search engine has gone nuts again so you may need to wait until it's fixed ......
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OK so then why did they have a separate New Zealand catalog? What other information does the NZ one have that the one you mentioned in your post does not have? Please clarify.
Thanks.
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They have a separate catalog to make money. A bit unfair perhaps, but I went to the SG website and here is what they say in their description of the New Zealand catalog.
"The listings for issues up to 1970 have been extracted from the 2014 edition of the Stanley Gibbons Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps 1840-1970. Later issues have been revised and updated especially for this volume."
So it would appear that if you are concentration on issues prior to 1970 there is no additional information provided over what is shown in the Commonwealth catalog (which includes Great Britain and all of the Commonwealth countries). A complete set of Gibbons specialized volumes would probably total into 4 figures.
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Ok thanks. I think I will just start with the new Zealand one and then get the other one too. Both would be handy references to have.
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http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Concise-New-Zealand-Stamp-Catalogue-Gibbons-Stanley-Paperback-Book-/391434864483?hash=item5b23560763
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The SG New Zealand catalogue also includes Nauru, Cook Islands and Aitutaki among others. The SG Simplified catalogue ( 1 volume Commonwealth and 3 volumes rest of the world ) is useless for anyone other than a "face different" collector. A real NZ specialist will go for the "Campbell-Patterson" catalogue which makes the Gibbons NZ specialised look simplified!
If you collect older stamps it should be noted that collections put together by specialised collectors will have the good stamps identified ( or often removed prior to sale! ). However collections put together by non-specialists without access to good information very occasionally include the odd gem. Additionally collections formed in the country of the stamp's origin seldom have good stuff included - owing to the collector naturally having more experience of his own country's stamps (even beginners)
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Yes well I looked at the price of the "Campbell-Patterson" catalog and it's $120. That's a little too expensive for me in light of where I am in collecting New Zealand right now. Maybe at some point I will splurge.
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Just to clarify something mentioned above, the SG New Zealand catalogue includes pre-independence NIUE (not NAURU, which is included in the SG Australia Catalogue).
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11:40:17pm
" .... Would the watermark on New Zealand # 177 look like this? ...."
If you mean SG 177, yes. I think so . it should also have a compound perforation 12½ x 10 or some variation thereof.
If you are talking Scott, then I have no idea.
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In the Scott Catalog the only difference between a 131 and a 177 is that of the watermark. The catalog says that some of the 177's have the watermark in blue, but some are not. How can you tell which catalog number it would be if the WM was not blue. It could be a 131 or a 177 I suppose.
This design has the globe with the diagonal lines on it.
131 1909-1912 WM #61 14x14.5 Design #A42 (A35 Redrawn) Carmine
177 1925 WM#61 (Usually in blue) 14x14.5 Design #A42 (A35 Redrawn) Carmine
Thanks for any help!
Adam
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09:13:48pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
Scott 131 is a normal stamp with regular watermark.
Scott 177 is on unwatermarked paper and has a printed watermark on the back which is usually in blue although some copies are printed in black and some are noted as colorless.
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re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
I would like to know how do they put a color watermark on the paper.
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09:26:37pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
It is printed - per Gibbons: "No wmk, but bluish "NZ" and star lithographed on back. Art Paper"
Scott lists two varieties, Gibbons lists 7 different varieties as New Zealand #405 through 411.
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this post
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
What I really need to know is how you would IDENTIFY the different varieties of the 177 stamp?
Thanks!
Adam
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this post
08:00:31am
Auctions - Approvals
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
As to the original question identification is easy - the 177 has a PRINTED star and NZ on the back - printed in ink, just like the front. It is on unwatermarked paper.
If you want to know all of the different varieties you need to get a Stanley Gibbons catalog. There are several different paper types; several different gum varieties; regular, inverted, reversed and "inverted and reversed" watermark varieties, 4 or 5 different colors,etc.
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this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Aug 2016
09:56:08am
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
Gibbons published a Commonwealth catalog that is available used and will be most helpful with varieties of issues. Since in this case you are discussing 100 year old issues a spanking new set is not needed as the essential info does not change every year very much.
You can find such volumes on eBay or at stamp shows at a great discount.
Login to Like
this post
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
Well I found one on ebay, but only 1 and the shipping is $20.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Gibbons-New-Zealand-catalogue-4th-Edition-2010-VGC-/191952543728?hash=item2cb1435ff0:g:l3cAAOSw6n5XvIa-
Maybe I will find someone who has one in the US to save on shipping. I'll keep on searching.
Adam
Login to Like
this post
12:27:55pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
If you just want a reference for ID one of the old "Part I - British Commonwealth" catalogs will do fine ..... here's one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-STANLEY-GIBBONS-STAMP-CATALOGUE-PART-I-British-Commonwealth-/222220461174?hash=item33bd5f2476:g:hjUAAOSw0HVWAeZa
It has Great Britain and all the colonies. At some point in time SG played with catalog numbers so while you will know what you are looking for the catalog number will not be the same as in the current SG catalog.
If you want a newer one you are looking for "Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps 1840-1952." Mine is a 2004 Edition which I paid aroung $25 for - most are in the $40 range but the are indispensable for British stamps. It covers Great Britain and all of the colonies. New it will set you back over $100 - unless there is some compelling reason you don't need new.
BTW - it appears ebay search engine has gone nuts again so you may need to wait until it's fixed ......
Login to Like
this post
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
OK so then why did they have a separate New Zealand catalog? What other information does the NZ one have that the one you mentioned in your post does not have? Please clarify.
Thanks.
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this post
02:53:31pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
They have a separate catalog to make money. A bit unfair perhaps, but I went to the SG website and here is what they say in their description of the New Zealand catalog.
"The listings for issues up to 1970 have been extracted from the 2014 edition of the Stanley Gibbons Commonwealth and British Empire Stamps 1840-1970. Later issues have been revised and updated especially for this volume."
So it would appear that if you are concentration on issues prior to 1970 there is no additional information provided over what is shown in the Commonwealth catalog (which includes Great Britain and all of the Commonwealth countries). A complete set of Gibbons specialized volumes would probably total into 4 figures.
Login to Like
this post
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
Ok thanks. I think I will just start with the new Zealand one and then get the other one too. Both would be handy references to have.
Login to Like
this post
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Concise-New-Zealand-Stamp-Catalogue-Gibbons-Stanley-Paperback-Book-/391434864483?hash=item5b23560763
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05:49:11pm
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
The SG New Zealand catalogue also includes Nauru, Cook Islands and Aitutaki among others. The SG Simplified catalogue ( 1 volume Commonwealth and 3 volumes rest of the world ) is useless for anyone other than a "face different" collector. A real NZ specialist will go for the "Campbell-Patterson" catalogue which makes the Gibbons NZ specialised look simplified!
If you collect older stamps it should be noted that collections put together by specialised collectors will have the good stamps identified ( or often removed prior to sale! ). However collections put together by non-specialists without access to good information very occasionally include the odd gem. Additionally collections formed in the country of the stamp's origin seldom have good stuff included - owing to the collector naturally having more experience of his own country's stamps (even beginners)
Login to Like
this post
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
Yes well I looked at the price of the "Campbell-Patterson" catalog and it's $120. That's a little too expensive for me in light of where I am in collecting New Zealand right now. Maybe at some point I will splurge.
Login to Like
this post
08:05:07pm
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
Just to clarify something mentioned above, the SG New Zealand catalogue includes pre-independence NIUE (not NAURU, which is included in the SG Australia Catalogue).
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
16 Oct 2016
11:40:17pm
re: New Zealand Universal Penny Post
" .... Would the watermark on New Zealand # 177 look like this? ...."
If you mean SG 177, yes. I think so . it should also have a compound perforation 12½ x 10 or some variation thereof.
If you are talking Scott, then I have no idea.
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