Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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I am intrigued Sheepshanks. Are you able to distinguish between the litho and photogravure printings of this pig's ear of definitive series?
I ask only because I would think the chance of you coming across correctly identified litho used copies is just above zero. I would imagine that the only way to get these is to either find kiloware or perhaps a small collection that has lumped them all together.
I hope you aren't like me and insist on circular date stamps as well. If you are, we both might have to wait until we are in our 90's to find them.
As you no doubt have found, there are about 3 or 4 values of the '92 issue which are extremely difficult to find; even moreso with a CDS.
It will be interesting to see if the catalogue prices of these change in the future, as I think some are much more elusive than so far indicated.
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Hi Ningpo, I use my usb microscope gets in really close. Think I posted the scans some time ago but here is the only used one I have 
First one is Photo, second Litho.
I have bought odd lots and accumulations and have lots of photogravure copies but nary a litho in sight.
I could always be getting the difference wrong and if I am hopefully someone will put me on the correct path.
Does make me wonder how Scott/Gibbons values them so low, maybe they haven't tried to buy any?
Not sure but were these also the only ones Tagged? Believe they were booklet stamps originally, possibly wrong on that account as well.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Vic
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I think you may have got those right Vic. The difference shown looks familiar to some images that were posted elsewhere. I'll see if I can find them.
If by the term 'tagging' you are referring to phosphor bands; then no, not quite. Phosphor bands appear on both issues but are confusing. You will find for example that the $2.10 value on the earlier issue is found with 1) no bands, 2) one centre band, 3) two bands.
The later issued $2.10 value is found with 1) no bands, 2) two bands and then in one booklet pane without bands and a miniature sheet without bands.
So you can also see that you can't assume the later '93 to '97 issue was purely for booklet pane production. Some were for general counter issue and some can only be found in miniature sheets.
Not only are these issues very difficult to distinguish between, finding genuinely used copies from miniature sheets will be nigh on impossible. These were of course produced for collectors and will only be found with FDI cancels and probably on first day cover.
All in all, this series of two issues is probably the worst example of HK Post trying to extract as much money from collectors before the handover to China. Just look at the endless auction listings of mint copies, pairs, blocks, panes, sheets (and miniature sheet panes) and then strips of five showing coil numbers.
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For those that have an interest in the two issues of this Machin series, the following tables may be more useful than using the catalogues. Courtesy of: Stamp-Collector.co.uk
EDIT
All numbered references prefixed with the letter 'Y' are Yang catalogue numbers.
Replaced image with larger size.
To start with:
The 10 cent to 90 cent values:
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EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
The $1 to $1.40 values:
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EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
The $1.50 to $2 values:
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EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
The $2.10 to $5 values:
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Edit: Replaced image with larger size.
The $10 to $50 values:
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Those charts are great! Thanks for posting them.
(Modified by Moderator on 2016-10-04 08:26:30)
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The miniature sheets and booklet values:
EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
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Ningpo, thanks for the clarification on the Phosphor bands (I used the word tagging as it is the term North Americans use, rather than us Blighty people)and also for the chart, seem to recall that I have a copy somewhere but have just saved the images to my desktop anyway.
While I have bought some of the coil strips I am drawing the line at the multitude of miniature sheets, as you say, just a money grab.
Maybe I should ask Gibbons to send me a set and see what they come up with price wise?
I did find some on Delcampe but when I asked for confirmation on Litho, the seller changed the description.
Guess they must be out there somewhere but in whose mission bag eludes me.
Thanks again for your great efforts, at least I'm a somewhat more wise now.
Vic
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Do Stanley Gibbons sell stamps? I thought they sold signed guitars and T shirts? Seriously though, I'd be truly astonished if they even bother to stock anything like that. Let me know if they do.
As far as my collecting this series is concerned, I just try and hoover up all the more difficult values with a CDS, regardless of their printing type, as long as they are cheap. I do not check these at all. By doing it this way, I'm hoping that my chances of acquiring both types will increase.
At some point in the future I'll then check to see what I have. At the moment though I just can't face sitting over a microscope and mulling over hundreds of these. Finding watermarks is bad enough.
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Ningpo, thanks for creating the need for an extra job, have just gone back over my copies loose and on pages to identify those with Phosphor lines, 1 band, 2 band and without lines. Interesting results, but still no more litho specimens! Seems the words Hong Kong at the bottom of the design were printed with Phosphorescent ink as they all react to UV light.
Will check for watermarks at later date.
Have ordered myself an older copy of Yangs which I am hoping will help further identification issues.
Tried to order them from SG site but looks like they do not bother with the common stuff any more. Will keep looking and checking dealers and sales sites for the elusive devils.
One last thought, in the images you posted does the pale yellow/cream colour denote those Photogravure examples with Phosphor lines?
Thanks again for your help.
Vic
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Thank you Michael for moving this thread into the 'discussion area'.
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I've been looking at these charts and comparing them with the Gibbons and Yang catalogues.
In summary, the listings for these Machin series in the two catalogues are a bird's nest. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Yang actually seems less helpful than Gibbons.
Although Yang separates the different printing dates into nice bite size chunks with pretty pictures, it does not provide the detail found in SG. And it seems they have omitted the full range of printing variations. For example, Yang makes no mention of those values printed by Leigh-Mardon Ltd., including the watermarked values found in prestige booklet SB33 (see further down).
I for one have never been impressed with Yang. Yes it does provide supplementary information on all manner of 'secondary' subjects, such as Treaty Ports, Japanese Occupation, commemorative cancellations etc. but it has consistently printed the same errors/typos over and over again. Someone here referred their catalogue as the second 'holy grail' of Hong Kong publications. I prefer the term 'holey grail'.
However, Yang uniquely distinguishes these 'separate' printings by defining them as Series 1 to 5. Although I'm not sure how useful that actually is.
At first, I wondered if SG had erroneously listed all the 'tagged' (phosphorescent banded) in the section entitled, 1992 (16 June) P14½ x 14........
The reason being, that all those tagged variations are listed with release dates of 1996, which of course fall within the dates under the subsequent issue entitled 1993 (14 Dec) -97.
However, having carefully read all the footnotes, I can't contradict what Gibbons has listed. Note that my observation here is based purely on the wording of the various footnotes; not on my own study of the stamps in question. Only further study will verify the accuracy of SG's listings.
The unsatisfactory aspect of combining both catalogue's references is the doubt collectors might have on their accuracy; certainly me.
To answer your question about the charts I posted, firstly I should explain a couple of heading descriptions, just in case it isn't obvious to some:
The heading Litho 1B refers to 'one centre phosphor band' and Litho 2B refers to 'two phosphor bands'.
The heading WaterMk refers to SG Nos: 760 to 765 which are the only values printed with a w 14 watermark (Multiple Crown CA) and are found in the 130th Anniversary of Hong Kong stamps prestige booklet SB33.
From what I can see, the columns coloured yellow/cream do indeed refer to the photogravure printings; just refer to the SG numbers suffixed with a small 'p'.
I've probably missed out some details on this subject, but as I'm starting to glaze over, I'll pause here.
PS. I wrote the word 'glaze' which has just reminded me that some values (I think from miniature sheets or was it booklets? were produced on glazed paper).
Oh dear!
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Thanks Clive, so I now have to re-sort my pages 'cos I have a mix of Photo mint with and without phosphor bands and used Photo with a mix of 1, and no band.
Will have to check the mint Litho with the usb micro because one of them has no band (3.10).
But it can all wait as have redecorating to get done first, maybe I should put Phosphor lines on the bedroom wall or would that really drive me nuts?
Vic
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Vic, if that $3.10 has no phosphor band it is SG759da and must have come from the $31 booklet SB42 (issued 2nd Sept. 1996).
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I've just pulled the best ones out of my 'unsorted' book and put them in a Hagner. I haven't a clue what they are as regards printing type of phosphor banding. There's so many of these I couldn't fit the large format high values in:
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Here's the rest of them. Strangely I don't have a decent $50 singleton:
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Thanks Michael for moving this thread!
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Terrific pages, a lot of time and trouble to have got such great copies, have appended scans of my meagre pages. Did look for $50 single but no luck but if you would want them I have a pair with Kowloon East, circular, 15th May 1993 postmark. Let me know and I'll put them in the mail.
Vic
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The two values you have missing $1.40 and $1.60 are the two most elusive of the pack, in my collection. I have only 1 copy of the $1.40 of any condition (the one shown).
The $2.50 is another. I've scoured eBay, Delcampe and Ebid and found nothing.
Thanks for offering the $50 pair. In fact, as soon as I posted my stuff, I found a pair on another page.
If you happen to need anything used from any previous definitive issues, just shout. I'll have a look at what I've got.
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I've just bumped this thread as it disappeared.
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Thanks for the offer Clive, am still getting to grips with a lot of the definitive issues, the 73,-81 sets are a pain with the various watermarks, which hardy show because of the heavy colour. I still have loads to go through but gradually getting there.
The KG V1 issue is coming along slowly, down to wanting 3 mint and 2 used, the latter low values from the coarse issue. The others rather expensive, pick up a bargain now and again.
The skyline sets seem to have a few odd, elusive values which will no doubt surface at some point, still sorting them as well. Never enough hours in the day or so it seems, think it's the "honey-do list" that's the problem, apart from all the things that I have to do before the ground freezes to 4 feet or more and gets covered in a few feet of snow for months.
Time to rest the weary (old) bones now, more decorating in the morning.
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"The KG V1 issue is coming along slowly, down to wanting 3 mint and 2 used, the latter low values from the coarse issue."
This one is spare Vic; SG141a - P14½ x 14. Is this one of the low values you're looking for?
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Hi Clive, no it is actually the 4 and 5 cent I'm missing but thanks for the offer. Will find them sooner or later, just not looking hard enough at present. I have not gone whole hog and separated Chalky from Ordinary paper varieties in this issue, that would be another whole can of worms!
Ah well, breakfast and back to decorating, more rain in today's forecast, so no gardening to be done.
Vic
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HI everyone;
Thank you to sheepshanks for the gravure/litho ID images and for the beautiful pages of stamps.
Thank you to Ningpo for those charts, and also for the stamp pages.
Whenever I see a thread like this, I favorite it for later reference. For the technically challenged, there is a "Fovorite" button at the top of each thread on the right. Clicking this will add the thread to your favorites list. To view this thread at a later date, click on the button "My Favs", located at the bottom of any thread, just to the left of "Post a Response". Then a list of all your favorite threads will appear for you to select from.
At a later date I then go to these threads and download the images to my printer, print out, punch them with a comb-binder punch and bind them and store in small books by subject, for my reference library.
For some readers who do not know how to capture images from our discussion board, try this: Using a two button mouse, place cursor over the image, and right-click. This will result in a menu, with several commands displayed. Left-click on "Copy Image". The graphic is now on your system software's clipboard.
Now open any word processor, and select paste. Position image where you want it, and add any descriptive text and save. Print out and add to your reference library.
Sorry for taking this thread off course, but the graphics were so beautiful, I wanted to make sure that all members could utilize them. If a reader tries these suggestions out, and you have difficulty, rather than taking this thread even further into the jungle, Private Message me and I can elaborate for you.
Happy stampin'....
TuskenRaider
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Having looked at those charts, I shall attempt to enlarge them as some of the detail is a bit blurry. This will take a while as I have to take screen shots of the source, which is one continuous file. I then have to repeat the header for each chart section.
I have already replaced the very last section, which looks a lot better.
Now I've roughly assembled the sets(s) shown and posted them, I think these series of definitives are really an attractive bunch.
EDIT:
My apologies to Tuskenraider (and anybody else), if you have already copied these charts. These have all now been replaced with larger versions.
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Have been sorting and soaking a large accumulation of Hong Kong including many of these Machins. However I am a little confused regarding what I believe is the previous Ningpo/adminware/stampcollector listing where some of the listings appear to be wrongly described as Litho when they are Photo.
If I am reading the SG listing (shown below) correctly then all the printings are Litho, not photo, including the Booklet stamps. If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate the input. The earlier issues Sg 702-717 were photo.
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I had got a series of articles from the The Bookmark Journal on this series and it lists the Leigh-Mardon printings as litho. The series was confusing when I compared Scott to SG.
Sample page screen shot. PM me your email and I will send the articles.
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Further to this subject, I have now received a copy of the 1994 booklet "A History of Hong Kong Definitive Stamps". According to the information inside the back cover they are printed by Leigh-Mardon, but no mention is made of whether Gravure or Lithography. These are the stamps with watermarks.
The following images are from the first sheetlet in the book, 5x$2 and 1x10 cent stamps. To me they are gravure not litho as reported in various listings and in Gibbons. Other stamps in the booklet display the same attributes.
What do our members consider is correct.
The thought occurs that maybe I have a forged booklet, if anyone else has the booklet or panes perhaps they would confirm the printing method.
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This image of the $5 value shows the two stamps with the litho first and from the prestige book (gravure ) second. There is a clear distinction that can be seen even with only a small magnification. These images were captured with an usb microscope.
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Bump! Nobody have any thoughts on this?
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Not yet. I was going to look at what I had. I have seen with Machins that looked like gravure (dot pattern) but actually litho.
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Thank you Al, appreciated.
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Having checked another booklet I find the same printing applies.
However, on checking the printed edges of the stamps I do not see the tell tail gravure spikes/troughs so can only assume that yes they are Litho, but not overly well defined plates.
Thank you to all for your patience with this old ditherer.
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I finally had a chance to check mine and will take time to figure it out again. I am now questioning my identification. When I looked at my worksheet, I made a comment that there was an error in Scott for the Leigh Mardon History of HK booklet.
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"If I am reading the SG listing (shown below) correctly then all the printings are Litho, not photo, including the Booklet stamps. If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate the input. The earlier issues Sg 702-717 were photo."
After some checking, I agree that all on the page shown are litho and double checked after checking some reference samples (have to be gravure or litho). It also matches the reference sheet I attached.
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Thanks Al, will put this to rest as Litho in the booklet. Have not been able to find anything done by Leigh-Mardon other than Litho.
For those wondering about the spikes/troughs mentioned previously, here are images that show the edges of the stamps, Gravure first, Litho second (from the booklet in question). Very noticeable difference on the left edge of the stamps. This also can indicate the direction of printing.
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Referring back to the post of 1st. Oct 2016 by the late Ningpo, the bottom row in the image has incorrect reference numbers, the first three (without images) are from the Booklet "A History of Hong Kong Definitive Stamps" and are from Booklet SB 33 not 30. SG 760a, 762a, 761a.
The second three are from Booklet SB 46 not 43. "Hong Kong past and present" and are also listed by SG under MS 872b, 872c and 872d.
The SB numbers are from the SG catalogue.l
To save scrolling back this is the uncorrected image.
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SG's method on mint sheets is always confusing to me when there are multiple stamps on an MS. Scott at least adds a suffix for each different stamp.
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10:54:45pm
Replies to a classified ad provided good information that should be part of a separate discussion.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
I am intrigued Sheepshanks. Are you able to distinguish between the litho and photogravure printings of this pig's ear of definitive series?
I ask only because I would think the chance of you coming across correctly identified litho used copies is just above zero. I would imagine that the only way to get these is to either find kiloware or perhaps a small collection that has lumped them all together.
I hope you aren't like me and insist on circular date stamps as well. If you are, we both might have to wait until we are in our 90's to find them.
As you no doubt have found, there are about 3 or 4 values of the '92 issue which are extremely difficult to find; even moreso with a CDS.
It will be interesting to see if the catalogue prices of these change in the future, as I think some are much more elusive than so far indicated.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Hi Ningpo, I use my usb microscope gets in really close. Think I posted the scans some time ago but here is the only used one I have
First one is Photo, second Litho.
I have bought odd lots and accumulations and have lots of photogravure copies but nary a litho in sight.
I could always be getting the difference wrong and if I am hopefully someone will put me on the correct path.
Does make me wonder how Scott/Gibbons values them so low, maybe they haven't tried to buy any?
Not sure but were these also the only ones Tagged? Believe they were booklet stamps originally, possibly wrong on that account as well.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Vic
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
I think you may have got those right Vic. The difference shown looks familiar to some images that were posted elsewhere. I'll see if I can find them.
If by the term 'tagging' you are referring to phosphor bands; then no, not quite. Phosphor bands appear on both issues but are confusing. You will find for example that the $2.10 value on the earlier issue is found with 1) no bands, 2) one centre band, 3) two bands.
The later issued $2.10 value is found with 1) no bands, 2) two bands and then in one booklet pane without bands and a miniature sheet without bands.
So you can also see that you can't assume the later '93 to '97 issue was purely for booklet pane production. Some were for general counter issue and some can only be found in miniature sheets.
Not only are these issues very difficult to distinguish between, finding genuinely used copies from miniature sheets will be nigh on impossible. These were of course produced for collectors and will only be found with FDI cancels and probably on first day cover.
All in all, this series of two issues is probably the worst example of HK Post trying to extract as much money from collectors before the handover to China. Just look at the endless auction listings of mint copies, pairs, blocks, panes, sheets (and miniature sheet panes) and then strips of five showing coil numbers.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
For those that have an interest in the two issues of this Machin series, the following tables may be more useful than using the catalogues. Courtesy of: Stamp-Collector.co.uk
EDIT
All numbered references prefixed with the letter 'Y' are Yang catalogue numbers.
Replaced image with larger size.
To start with:
The 10 cent to 90 cent values:
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
The $1 to $1.40 values:
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
The $1.50 to $2 values:
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
The $2.10 to $5 values:
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Edit: Replaced image with larger size.
The $10 to $50 values:
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Those charts are great! Thanks for posting them.
(Modified by Moderator on 2016-10-04 08:26:30)
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
The miniature sheets and booklet values:
EDIT: Replaced image with larger size.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Ningpo, thanks for the clarification on the Phosphor bands (I used the word tagging as it is the term North Americans use, rather than us Blighty people)and also for the chart, seem to recall that I have a copy somewhere but have just saved the images to my desktop anyway.
While I have bought some of the coil strips I am drawing the line at the multitude of miniature sheets, as you say, just a money grab.
Maybe I should ask Gibbons to send me a set and see what they come up with price wise?
I did find some on Delcampe but when I asked for confirmation on Litho, the seller changed the description.
Guess they must be out there somewhere but in whose mission bag eludes me.
Thanks again for your great efforts, at least I'm a somewhat more wise now.
Vic
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Do Stanley Gibbons sell stamps? I thought they sold signed guitars and T shirts? Seriously though, I'd be truly astonished if they even bother to stock anything like that. Let me know if they do.
As far as my collecting this series is concerned, I just try and hoover up all the more difficult values with a CDS, regardless of their printing type, as long as they are cheap. I do not check these at all. By doing it this way, I'm hoping that my chances of acquiring both types will increase.
At some point in the future I'll then check to see what I have. At the moment though I just can't face sitting over a microscope and mulling over hundreds of these. Finding watermarks is bad enough.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Ningpo, thanks for creating the need for an extra job, have just gone back over my copies loose and on pages to identify those with Phosphor lines, 1 band, 2 band and without lines. Interesting results, but still no more litho specimens! Seems the words Hong Kong at the bottom of the design were printed with Phosphorescent ink as they all react to UV light.
Will check for watermarks at later date.
Have ordered myself an older copy of Yangs which I am hoping will help further identification issues.
Tried to order them from SG site but looks like they do not bother with the common stuff any more. Will keep looking and checking dealers and sales sites for the elusive devils.
One last thought, in the images you posted does the pale yellow/cream colour denote those Photogravure examples with Phosphor lines?
Thanks again for your help.
Vic
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Thank you Michael for moving this thread into the 'discussion area'.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
I've been looking at these charts and comparing them with the Gibbons and Yang catalogues.
In summary, the listings for these Machin series in the two catalogues are a bird's nest. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Yang actually seems less helpful than Gibbons.
Although Yang separates the different printing dates into nice bite size chunks with pretty pictures, it does not provide the detail found in SG. And it seems they have omitted the full range of printing variations. For example, Yang makes no mention of those values printed by Leigh-Mardon Ltd., including the watermarked values found in prestige booklet SB33 (see further down).
I for one have never been impressed with Yang. Yes it does provide supplementary information on all manner of 'secondary' subjects, such as Treaty Ports, Japanese Occupation, commemorative cancellations etc. but it has consistently printed the same errors/typos over and over again. Someone here referred their catalogue as the second 'holy grail' of Hong Kong publications. I prefer the term 'holey grail'.
However, Yang uniquely distinguishes these 'separate' printings by defining them as Series 1 to 5. Although I'm not sure how useful that actually is.
At first, I wondered if SG had erroneously listed all the 'tagged' (phosphorescent banded) in the section entitled, 1992 (16 June) P14½ x 14........
The reason being, that all those tagged variations are listed with release dates of 1996, which of course fall within the dates under the subsequent issue entitled 1993 (14 Dec) -97.
However, having carefully read all the footnotes, I can't contradict what Gibbons has listed. Note that my observation here is based purely on the wording of the various footnotes; not on my own study of the stamps in question. Only further study will verify the accuracy of SG's listings.
The unsatisfactory aspect of combining both catalogue's references is the doubt collectors might have on their accuracy; certainly me.
To answer your question about the charts I posted, firstly I should explain a couple of heading descriptions, just in case it isn't obvious to some:
The heading Litho 1B refers to 'one centre phosphor band' and Litho 2B refers to 'two phosphor bands'.
The heading WaterMk refers to SG Nos: 760 to 765 which are the only values printed with a w 14 watermark (Multiple Crown CA) and are found in the 130th Anniversary of Hong Kong stamps prestige booklet SB33.
From what I can see, the columns coloured yellow/cream do indeed refer to the photogravure printings; just refer to the SG numbers suffixed with a small 'p'.
I've probably missed out some details on this subject, but as I'm starting to glaze over, I'll pause here.
PS. I wrote the word 'glaze' which has just reminded me that some values (I think from miniature sheets or was it booklets? were produced on glazed paper).
Oh dear!
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Thanks Clive, so I now have to re-sort my pages 'cos I have a mix of Photo mint with and without phosphor bands and used Photo with a mix of 1, and no band.
Will have to check the mint Litho with the usb micro because one of them has no band (3.10).
But it can all wait as have redecorating to get done first, maybe I should put Phosphor lines on the bedroom wall or would that really drive me nuts?
Vic
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Vic, if that $3.10 has no phosphor band it is SG759da and must have come from the $31 booklet SB42 (issued 2nd Sept. 1996).
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
I've just pulled the best ones out of my 'unsorted' book and put them in a Hagner. I haven't a clue what they are as regards printing type of phosphor banding. There's so many of these I couldn't fit the large format high values in:
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Here's the rest of them. Strangely I don't have a decent $50 singleton:
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Thanks Michael for moving this thread!
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Terrific pages, a lot of time and trouble to have got such great copies, have appended scans of my meagre pages. Did look for $50 single but no luck but if you would want them I have a pair with Kowloon East, circular, 15th May 1993 postmark. Let me know and I'll put them in the mail.
Vic
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
The two values you have missing $1.40 and $1.60 are the two most elusive of the pack, in my collection. I have only 1 copy of the $1.40 of any condition (the one shown).
The $2.50 is another. I've scoured eBay, Delcampe and Ebid and found nothing.
Thanks for offering the $50 pair. In fact, as soon as I posted my stuff, I found a pair on another page.
If you happen to need anything used from any previous definitive issues, just shout. I'll have a look at what I've got.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
I've just bumped this thread as it disappeared.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Thanks for the offer Clive, am still getting to grips with a lot of the definitive issues, the 73,-81 sets are a pain with the various watermarks, which hardy show because of the heavy colour. I still have loads to go through but gradually getting there.
The KG V1 issue is coming along slowly, down to wanting 3 mint and 2 used, the latter low values from the coarse issue. The others rather expensive, pick up a bargain now and again.
The skyline sets seem to have a few odd, elusive values which will no doubt surface at some point, still sorting them as well. Never enough hours in the day or so it seems, think it's the "honey-do list" that's the problem, apart from all the things that I have to do before the ground freezes to 4 feet or more and gets covered in a few feet of snow for months.
Time to rest the weary (old) bones now, more decorating in the morning.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
"The KG V1 issue is coming along slowly, down to wanting 3 mint and 2 used, the latter low values from the coarse issue."
This one is spare Vic; SG141a - P14½ x 14. Is this one of the low values you're looking for?
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Hi Clive, no it is actually the 4 and 5 cent I'm missing but thanks for the offer. Will find them sooner or later, just not looking hard enough at present. I have not gone whole hog and separated Chalky from Ordinary paper varieties in this issue, that would be another whole can of worms!
Ah well, breakfast and back to decorating, more rain in today's forecast, so no gardening to be done.
Vic
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
HI everyone;
Thank you to sheepshanks for the gravure/litho ID images and for the beautiful pages of stamps.
Thank you to Ningpo for those charts, and also for the stamp pages.
Whenever I see a thread like this, I favorite it for later reference. For the technically challenged, there is a "Fovorite" button at the top of each thread on the right. Clicking this will add the thread to your favorites list. To view this thread at a later date, click on the button "My Favs", located at the bottom of any thread, just to the left of "Post a Response". Then a list of all your favorite threads will appear for you to select from.
At a later date I then go to these threads and download the images to my printer, print out, punch them with a comb-binder punch and bind them and store in small books by subject, for my reference library.
For some readers who do not know how to capture images from our discussion board, try this: Using a two button mouse, place cursor over the image, and right-click. This will result in a menu, with several commands displayed. Left-click on "Copy Image". The graphic is now on your system software's clipboard.
Now open any word processor, and select paste. Position image where you want it, and add any descriptive text and save. Print out and add to your reference library.
Sorry for taking this thread off course, but the graphics were so beautiful, I wanted to make sure that all members could utilize them. If a reader tries these suggestions out, and you have difficulty, rather than taking this thread even further into the jungle, Private Message me and I can elaborate for you.
Happy stampin'....
TuskenRaider
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Having looked at those charts, I shall attempt to enlarge them as some of the detail is a bit blurry. This will take a while as I have to take screen shots of the source, which is one continuous file. I then have to repeat the header for each chart section.
I have already replaced the very last section, which looks a lot better.
Now I've roughly assembled the sets(s) shown and posted them, I think these series of definitives are really an attractive bunch.
EDIT:
My apologies to Tuskenraider (and anybody else), if you have already copied these charts. These have all now been replaced with larger versions.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Have been sorting and soaking a large accumulation of Hong Kong including many of these Machins. However I am a little confused regarding what I believe is the previous Ningpo/adminware/stampcollector listing where some of the listings appear to be wrongly described as Litho when they are Photo.
If I am reading the SG listing (shown below) correctly then all the printings are Litho, not photo, including the Booklet stamps. If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate the input. The earlier issues Sg 702-717 were photo.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
I had got a series of articles from the The Bookmark Journal on this series and it lists the Leigh-Mardon printings as litho. The series was confusing when I compared Scott to SG.
Sample page screen shot. PM me your email and I will send the articles.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Further to this subject, I have now received a copy of the 1994 booklet "A History of Hong Kong Definitive Stamps". According to the information inside the back cover they are printed by Leigh-Mardon, but no mention is made of whether Gravure or Lithography. These are the stamps with watermarks.
The following images are from the first sheetlet in the book, 5x$2 and 1x10 cent stamps. To me they are gravure not litho as reported in various listings and in Gibbons. Other stamps in the booklet display the same attributes.
What do our members consider is correct.
The thought occurs that maybe I have a forged booklet, if anyone else has the booklet or panes perhaps they would confirm the printing method.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
This image of the $5 value shows the two stamps with the litho first and from the prestige book (gravure ) second. There is a clear distinction that can be seen even with only a small magnification. These images were captured with an usb microscope.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Bump! Nobody have any thoughts on this?
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Not yet. I was going to look at what I had. I have seen with Machins that looked like gravure (dot pattern) but actually litho.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Having checked another booklet I find the same printing applies.
However, on checking the printed edges of the stamps I do not see the tell tail gravure spikes/troughs so can only assume that yes they are Litho, but not overly well defined plates.
Thank you to all for your patience with this old ditherer.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
I finally had a chance to check mine and will take time to figure it out again. I am now questioning my identification. When I looked at my worksheet, I made a comment that there was an error in Scott for the Leigh Mardon History of HK booklet.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
"If I am reading the SG listing (shown below) correctly then all the printings are Litho, not photo, including the Booklet stamps. If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate the input. The earlier issues Sg 702-717 were photo."
After some checking, I agree that all on the page shown are litho and double checked after checking some reference samples (have to be gravure or litho). It also matches the reference sheet I attached.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Thanks Al, will put this to rest as Litho in the booklet. Have not been able to find anything done by Leigh-Mardon other than Litho.
For those wondering about the spikes/troughs mentioned previously, here are images that show the edges of the stamps, Gravure first, Litho second (from the booklet in question). Very noticeable difference on the left edge of the stamps. This also can indicate the direction of printing.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
Referring back to the post of 1st. Oct 2016 by the late Ningpo, the bottom row in the image has incorrect reference numbers, the first three (without images) are from the Booklet "A History of Hong Kong Definitive Stamps" and are from Booklet SB 33 not 30. SG 760a, 762a, 761a.
The second three are from Booklet SB 46 not 43. "Hong Kong past and present" and are also listed by SG under MS 872b, 872c and 872d.
The SB numbers are from the SG catalogue.l
To save scrolling back this is the uncorrected image.
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re: Hong Kong QE2 1993-6 Litho
SG's method on mint sheets is always confusing to me when there are multiple stamps on an MS. Scott at least adds a suffix for each different stamp.
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