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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Need help on this one

 

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adam31415926
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17 Oct 2016
11:04:10pm
I need help identifying this stamp.

Thank you,

Adam
Image Not Found

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GeoStamper
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Steve

17 Oct 2016
11:38:39pm
re: Need help on this one

Adam,

Looks like Thurn and Taxis, 1850's or 1860's. Several color variations of what at a casual glance seem to be the same design. Check Mitch's page:

http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/germanstate/thurn02.jpg

I learned just now that the "Kreuzer" currency was used by southern German States and Austria.

-Steve

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"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
Guthrum
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18 Oct 2016
06:50:10pm
re: Need help on this one

Stanley Gibbons lists ten 9k values in this Thurn and Taxis design from 1852 to 1866, not counting 1910 reprints which have 'N.D.' on the back.

They are as follows:
58 9k on yellow
59 9k on yellow-buff - both imperf., black impression 29 Jan 1852

64 9k orange-yellow
65 9k yellow - both imperf., coloured impression, January 1860

72 9k bistre
73 9k brown - both imperf., 1863

77 9k bistre
78 9k bistre-brown - both rouletted 16, uncoloured, July 1865

83 9k yellow-bistre
84 9k yellow-ochre - both rouletted 16, coloured, 31 August 1866

I'm not even competent on material this old, but I'd go for a 64 if pressed.

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nigelc
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18 Oct 2016
07:51:24pm
re: Need help on this one

The "207" postmark is from Langenschwalbach (now Bad Schwalbach) in Hesse.

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adam31415926
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19 Oct 2016
01:51:26pm
re: Need help on this one

Interesting that there are so many different color varieties. I would imagine the color mixing varied from print run to print run. Also stamps can fade over time making identification difficult.

I came across a paper online discussing a scientific study of the inks for one particular USA issue (1851 3 cent). Maybe we will see more studies like this over time.

https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/21398/07.AllenandLera.SCHT57_Lera_web_FINAL.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

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JW1950

19 Oct 2016
02:03:24pm
re: Need help on this one

The SG # mentioned would not be color varieties, they are specific issues each with their own characteristics. There are color varieties within each issue

This seems to be the truer color after correction
Image Not Found

It is not an Mi10 (SG58) (full background color) or Mi23 (SG64) as these are quite "yellow" & $$$
Image Not Found Image Not Found
Mi 10a Type II & Mi23 TII

It is not either an Mi44 (SG77) or Mi54 (SG83)as the rouletted perfs and colored lines are very noticeable
Image Not Found Image Not Found

That pretty well leaves the Mi34 (SG72)
Image Not Found
and from the shape of the s in Deutsch it appears to be a Mi 34 TypeI (SG 72) with as noted, a Langenschwalb cancel
Both the stamp & cancel exhibit genuine traits
It is fairly low value even for a good specimen. The numerical cancel of which there are over 400 can add value and some people attempt to collect samples of all of them. They are however EXTENSIVELY faked.

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adam31415926

17 Oct 2016
11:04:10pm

I need help identifying this stamp.

Thank you,

Adam
Image Not Found

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this post

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
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GeoStamper

Steve
17 Oct 2016
11:38:39pm

re: Need help on this one

Adam,

Looks like Thurn and Taxis, 1850's or 1860's. Several color variations of what at a casual glance seem to be the same design. Check Mitch's page:

http://mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/europe/germanstate/thurn02.jpg

I learned just now that the "Kreuzer" currency was used by southern German States and Austria.

-Steve

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likes this post.
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"What are you waiting for? Those stamps aren't going to collect themselves."
Members Picture
Guthrum

18 Oct 2016
06:50:10pm

re: Need help on this one

Stanley Gibbons lists ten 9k values in this Thurn and Taxis design from 1852 to 1866, not counting 1910 reprints which have 'N.D.' on the back.

They are as follows:
58 9k on yellow
59 9k on yellow-buff - both imperf., black impression 29 Jan 1852

64 9k orange-yellow
65 9k yellow - both imperf., coloured impression, January 1860

72 9k bistre
73 9k brown - both imperf., 1863

77 9k bistre
78 9k bistre-brown - both rouletted 16, uncoloured, July 1865

83 9k yellow-bistre
84 9k yellow-ochre - both rouletted 16, coloured, 31 August 1866

I'm not even competent on material this old, but I'd go for a 64 if pressed.

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nigelc

18 Oct 2016
07:51:24pm

re: Need help on this one

The "207" postmark is from Langenschwalbach (now Bad Schwalbach) in Hesse.

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like this post.
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Members Picture
adam31415926

19 Oct 2016
01:51:26pm

re: Need help on this one

Interesting that there are so many different color varieties. I would imagine the color mixing varied from print run to print run. Also stamps can fade over time making identification difficult.

I came across a paper online discussing a scientific study of the inks for one particular USA issue (1851 3 cent). Maybe we will see more studies like this over time.

https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/21398/07.AllenandLera.SCHT57_Lera_web_FINAL.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
JW1950

19 Oct 2016
02:03:24pm

re: Need help on this one

The SG # mentioned would not be color varieties, they are specific issues each with their own characteristics. There are color varieties within each issue

This seems to be the truer color after correction
Image Not Found

It is not an Mi10 (SG58) (full background color) or Mi23 (SG64) as these are quite "yellow" & $$$
Image Not Found Image Not Found
Mi 10a Type II & Mi23 TII

It is not either an Mi44 (SG77) or Mi54 (SG83)as the rouletted perfs and colored lines are very noticeable
Image Not Found Image Not Found

That pretty well leaves the Mi34 (SG72)
Image Not Found
and from the shape of the s in Deutsch it appears to be a Mi 34 TypeI (SG 72) with as noted, a Langenschwalb cancel
Both the stamp & cancel exhibit genuine traits
It is fairly low value even for a good specimen. The numerical cancel of which there are over 400 can add value and some people attempt to collect samples of all of them. They are however EXTENSIVELY faked.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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