Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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John Macco said,
" I think many space cover collectors are upset with the inconsistency of judging space cover exhibits sometimes a 2 to 3 level drop in awards"
From 2003 to about 2013, I was heavily involved in VANPEX (VANcouverPhilatelicEXhibition), sponsored by the BC Philatelic Society. At various times I participated as VANPEX chair, exhibits chair, and as an exhibitor. I didn't experience a single year when some exhibitors didn't complain about their awards, often with good reason:
• Judges criticized exhibits for lacking key items, regardless of the depth of the exhibit and the knowledge of the exhibitors.
• Sometimes judges themselves lacked the knowledge to recognize the significance of individual items or the whole of an exhibit.
• At times, exhibits were judged only on the rarity of the stamps and/or covers that were exhibited; in other words, judges were giving points based on the depth of the exhibitors' pockets, not the intrinsic historic and/or philatelic value of the exhibits.
• Some judges scorned any stamps, covers, or collateral items that weren't as old as themselves!
While I don't see anything negative about trying to teach judges about astrophilately, I don't believe that the "judging industry" will change significantly. At the end of the day, exhibitors will be much happier if they exhibit for themselves rather than for the judges. When I started exhibiting, I broke every rule in the book because I wanted my exhibits to be an expression of my interests and my knowledge. And it worked: I never got less than a silver medal. But there's an even better reason for exhibiting: There is no better way to learn about philately than by developing an exhibit from a collection.
Bob
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Great points Bob, thanks. I've never exhibited, but I have seen a few dustups between exhibitors and judges--some of them involving the very issues you raised.
If I ever do exhibit, I think I will take your approach: "I wanted my exhibits to be an expression of my interests and my knowledge."
-Steve
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I agree 100% with the above 2 posts by Steve and Bob. I exhibit for my own pleasure and to let others know what I collect. The thing that astrophilatelists have a problem with is the 2 to 3 level drop in medal awards. Consistency in judging I think starts with education the judges about our topic.
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I think more importantly is to make exhibits available for all to see but wish there was some database to organize them.
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08:14:00pm
... At times, exhibits were judged only on the rarity of the stamps and/or covers that were exhibited; in other words, judges were giving points based on the depth of the exhibitors' pockets, not the intrinsic historic and/or philatelic value of the exhibits....
I discovered this many years ago after attending a couple of shows in New York and overhearing a discussion, at one, between judges dismissing an exhibit that I had just spent an hour. (???) looking at and thought was very interesting. Their main bone of contention was that all the issues being shown were low value.
The exhibit was titled "The Definitives of the Four Kings, which I later discovered was from the name of the Gibbons Specialized Volume Two. The thing that caught my attention was the display, illustrated with little arrows, of dozens of minor flaws of what were common issues, some of which I had, along with their cause as well as an explanation of the different printing process used. There was an introduction to watermarks and the startling news, to me, that some of the KG V issues were in large and small prints.
Later, after a couple of vendor hot dogs and a cup of coffee I went back and discovered that while I had looked at the big ribbon winners, none had caught more than a passing glance and perhaps a subdued silent mental "Wow" at the cost or value which was in the prospectus.
That "loser" collection lit the interest in British Definitives that has only grown.
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Anglophile said,
"My impression is that judges view this material as virtually all philatelic in nature, and not rare, and therefore not important."
I think it's correct that judges view this material as "not rare, and therefore not important," but that just shows the ignorance of judges.
I've posted this image in other posts over the years:
The covers were posted, respectively, in Hurley and Silver City, New Mexico, and flown to El Paso, where they were backstamped. That was the west-east leg of this particular first flight, from Phoenix to El Paso. Later in the day, the same DC-3 flew the east-west leg, from El Paso to Phoenix, with a stop at the Silver City-Grant County Airport where delivered mail and picked up mail. When you find a Hurley or Silver City FFC backstamped in Phoenix, let me know! I've been looking for years and never seen one, but I know they exist. (My interest in this stems from the fact that I grew up in Silver City, and my paternal grandparents lived in Hurley. The stamp on the Silver City cover, BTW, was issued on the day I was born, January 14, 1943. Yeh, I know, I just had my 74th birthday. Listen carefully and you might hear a Bronx cheer!)
Are covers like these important? I dunno. I do know that most of the communities in Arizona and New Mexico that were served by Frontier Airlines (Lordsburg, Deming and Las Cruces, in New Mexico) soon lost that service when Frontier complained that it was losing money. That seems kinda important to me. Even Silver City, which originally was served by at least two Frontier flights a day, eventually was served just once a day, or less, by smaller feeder airlines.
Bob
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As many of you know, I am an astrophilatelist- collector of space covers and an exhibitor of a collection titled: Apollo-Soyuz Test Project here in the United States. The Space Unit is trying to resurrect the exhibiting of space covers. Back in the 1970-90's there were many collectors who exhibited regularly that do not now. I would like to find out the reasons why. Astrophilately is alive and strong in Europe as I am always reading about exhibits and seminars on Astrophilately. Ray Cartier former President Space Unit has written a book titled: U.S. Space Cover Collecting Handbook to try to educate judges about space cover collecting. I think many space cover collectors are upset with the inconsistency of judging space cover exhibits sometimes a 2 to 3 level drop in awards. I would like to hear from astrophilatelists from around the world on their opinions on how we here in the Unites States can get more visibility in the philatelic press and exhibitors showing this material. I think all space cover collectors want is fair consistent judging. Let me hear your opinions and/or suggestions.
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re: Collecting and Exhibiting Astrophilately
John Macco said,
" I think many space cover collectors are upset with the inconsistency of judging space cover exhibits sometimes a 2 to 3 level drop in awards"
From 2003 to about 2013, I was heavily involved in VANPEX (VANcouverPhilatelicEXhibition), sponsored by the BC Philatelic Society. At various times I participated as VANPEX chair, exhibits chair, and as an exhibitor. I didn't experience a single year when some exhibitors didn't complain about their awards, often with good reason:
• Judges criticized exhibits for lacking key items, regardless of the depth of the exhibit and the knowledge of the exhibitors.
• Sometimes judges themselves lacked the knowledge to recognize the significance of individual items or the whole of an exhibit.
• At times, exhibits were judged only on the rarity of the stamps and/or covers that were exhibited; in other words, judges were giving points based on the depth of the exhibitors' pockets, not the intrinsic historic and/or philatelic value of the exhibits.
• Some judges scorned any stamps, covers, or collateral items that weren't as old as themselves!
While I don't see anything negative about trying to teach judges about astrophilately, I don't believe that the "judging industry" will change significantly. At the end of the day, exhibitors will be much happier if they exhibit for themselves rather than for the judges. When I started exhibiting, I broke every rule in the book because I wanted my exhibits to be an expression of my interests and my knowledge. And it worked: I never got less than a silver medal. But there's an even better reason for exhibiting: There is no better way to learn about philately than by developing an exhibit from a collection.
Bob
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re: Collecting and Exhibiting Astrophilately
Great points Bob, thanks. I've never exhibited, but I have seen a few dustups between exhibitors and judges--some of them involving the very issues you raised.
If I ever do exhibit, I think I will take your approach: "I wanted my exhibits to be an expression of my interests and my knowledge."
-Steve
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re: Collecting and Exhibiting Astrophilately
I agree 100% with the above 2 posts by Steve and Bob. I exhibit for my own pleasure and to let others know what I collect. The thing that astrophilatelists have a problem with is the 2 to 3 level drop in medal awards. Consistency in judging I think starts with education the judges about our topic.
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re: Collecting and Exhibiting Astrophilately
I think more importantly is to make exhibits available for all to see but wish there was some database to organize them.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
16 Jan 2017
08:14:00pm
re: Collecting and Exhibiting Astrophilately
... At times, exhibits were judged only on the rarity of the stamps and/or covers that were exhibited; in other words, judges were giving points based on the depth of the exhibitors' pockets, not the intrinsic historic and/or philatelic value of the exhibits....
I discovered this many years ago after attending a couple of shows in New York and overhearing a discussion, at one, between judges dismissing an exhibit that I had just spent an hour. (???) looking at and thought was very interesting. Their main bone of contention was that all the issues being shown were low value.
The exhibit was titled "The Definitives of the Four Kings, which I later discovered was from the name of the Gibbons Specialized Volume Two. The thing that caught my attention was the display, illustrated with little arrows, of dozens of minor flaws of what were common issues, some of which I had, along with their cause as well as an explanation of the different printing process used. There was an introduction to watermarks and the startling news, to me, that some of the KG V issues were in large and small prints.
Later, after a couple of vendor hot dogs and a cup of coffee I went back and discovered that while I had looked at the big ribbon winners, none had caught more than a passing glance and perhaps a subdued silent mental "Wow" at the cost or value which was in the prospectus.
That "loser" collection lit the interest in British Definitives that has only grown.
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re: Collecting and Exhibiting Astrophilately
Anglophile said,
"My impression is that judges view this material as virtually all philatelic in nature, and not rare, and therefore not important."
I think it's correct that judges view this material as "not rare, and therefore not important," but that just shows the ignorance of judges.
I've posted this image in other posts over the years:
The covers were posted, respectively, in Hurley and Silver City, New Mexico, and flown to El Paso, where they were backstamped. That was the west-east leg of this particular first flight, from Phoenix to El Paso. Later in the day, the same DC-3 flew the east-west leg, from El Paso to Phoenix, with a stop at the Silver City-Grant County Airport where delivered mail and picked up mail. When you find a Hurley or Silver City FFC backstamped in Phoenix, let me know! I've been looking for years and never seen one, but I know they exist. (My interest in this stems from the fact that I grew up in Silver City, and my paternal grandparents lived in Hurley. The stamp on the Silver City cover, BTW, was issued on the day I was born, January 14, 1943. Yeh, I know, I just had my 74th birthday. Listen carefully and you might hear a Bronx cheer!)
Are covers like these important? I dunno. I do know that most of the communities in Arizona and New Mexico that were served by Frontier Airlines (Lordsburg, Deming and Las Cruces, in New Mexico) soon lost that service when Frontier complained that it was losing money. That seems kinda important to me. Even Silver City, which originally was served by at least two Frontier flights a day, eventually was served just once a day, or less, by smaller feeder airlines.
Bob
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