Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
When I went to mount the stamp, I looked at the back and the small spot was unquestionably a cigarette burn, like when a cigarette falls out of the ash tray. Some of you may remember about that. Anyway I mounted it and later flipped up the mount to look at the back again and the small spot had become a small hole where the stain, that was really an ash, had disintegrated inside the mount (another pause).
So this led to my looking at the the whole grade/condition thing. I believe I read that grade and condition do not have anything to do with each other. As far as the stamp goes, it seems nicely centered with a nice cancellation with a few damaged perforations, but overall a fairly attractive stamp (to me anyway). However, I think I paid maybe $10 too much for it, or did I? Whatever the answer I consider the whole episode to be part of the cost of an education. And I still like the stamp.
Hence, the question "What is the impact of flaws on the value of a stamp?" Thanks in advance for any input.
Lucky
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Not trying to be a jerk and please take this in the spirit that it's meant. Unfortunately, with the pulled perfs and scorched area, I feel that you got burnt worse then the stamp. I'm not as picky as some, but even I'd consider it a space filler. I do like the centering and cancel, but IMHO that doesn't warrant 30-40% of CV.
Hang in there and don't be discouraged, it could have been worse.
WB
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You should be able to get a nicely centered #76 without any faults for a third of catalog.
Holes especially burned ones are very major faults! Damaged stamps do still have some value if they had any to begin with. I sell quite a few damaged 19th century stamps and would put a price tag of $8.50 on your stamp and it would sell but not for much more.
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I don't mean to pile on but the cancel is suspect to my eye. It is too bold (dark), too well applied, and appears to be coming through the paper to the back of the stamp.
Don
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I was wondering about the cancel as well....
...it looks way too "perfect" and precisely placed to be genuine - at least to MY eye.
However, I am not an expert on fancy cancels.
Randy
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"...I believe I read that grade and condition do not have anything to do with each other...."
Grading does indeed include a stamp’s ‘condition’.
I think there is some confusion about this and it might be due to a popular software application which grades only using centering. This is due to the fact that software can easily be used to calculate centering but it is almost impossible to write software to judge and quantify a stamp’s condition. Short perfs, thins, tears, toning, alterations, repairs, creases, scuffs, and/or holes would all affect a stamp’s grade.
Don
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. Told that danged cat not to buy that thing. I particularly appreciate the suggestion of $8.50 as an appropriate price for this stamp. It's confusing when, for instance, a site like Mystic lists a used #76 with "small flaws" , whatever that means(no scan), for $65.
LS
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FWIW I paid a bit less than $10 last month for a #76 with 'issues'.
One of my (now funny) memories is a stamp I bought at a show many years ago, what looked like a nice Scott #272. That is when I learned if encountering a stamp left in a mount by a dealer, see if there's a reason. When taking it out of the mount later I found it was in two pieces. Very skillfully pieced together.
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Wow, that's a good one. Thanks for sharing.
LS
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I agree that grade and condition are pretty much the same thing but apply differently by seller and buyer, regardless, the Scott cat. is very precise when grading stamps and a stamp that the perfs. cut into the design of the stamp will never be VF, yet many sellers will grade it as such. Personally I feel that your stamp is not exactly as described, the first thing you notice is missing perforations and for most collectors that is a turn off almost immediately. Also using a high price dealer as you mention will get you nice stamps that you can get somewhere else for a fraction of the cost, if stamp collecting is your hobby just be patient and stamps that you like will come your way, remember stamps are not edible.
Tony
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Lutok,
Don't feel too badly as we have probably all been in your position at one time. This is how we all learn, and it may save you from something worse in the future.
I would be very suspicious of buying anything else from the same dealer again. Sometimes you can find a great deal but it really helps to have experience and do some research prior to making a "big" purchase.
Take your tongs to the show/bourse. You should be allowed to fully inspect whatever you are considering buying. Take the stamp out of the sleeve/glassine/pocket and look at both sides.
Something else to consider: a sniff test. A couple years ago, I bought a Canada album with stamps in mounts from a member of my stamp club who considers himself a dealer. Never gave it a thought until I got home and opened it up. Smelled strongly of cigarette smoke. Removed some stamps from their mounts and they reeked of smoke too. Pulled them all out of the album and sequestered them in loose envelopes away from all other stamps. Took the album and stamps back at our next club meeting - he denied being able to smell the smoke. That is the last stamp purchase I will make from him. After much airing out, the stamps seem ok but I am still leery of putting them in my good album. Lesson learned (and at a higher price than yours).
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Here are some examples of the San Francisco Cog Cancel, front and back. Your cancel probably is a fake. As Don pointed out with the ink bleeding through on the back of the stamp. That usually is a sign of a fake cancel but not always.
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Glad you jumped in there, Vince....
...nice cancel examples!
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I love Sally's comment: THis is how we learn. I think you got an immense amount for your $40. i have never regretted any purchase I've ever made, because all of have lead me to further knowledge even if the THING purchased wasn't as valuable as advertised. Congratulations. And "small flaw" seems a bit of an understatement.
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That's pretty much how I feel about it too, and once again I am overwhelmed by the feedback and support.
LS
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This thread (and Lutok's stamp) reminds me of something I read several years ago. It seems that someone decided that an effective cancellation would result from including a bit of fulminate of mercury on the back of the stamp. Postal workers would strike the stamp with a hammer, which would cause the fulminate of mercury to explode and burn a hole through the stamp. Sounds like a great idea! A Scientific American article published in 1887 mentions it:
Maybe Lutok has a rarity!
Bob
P.S. Condition is just one criterion of collectibility. Some of the rattiest covers in my collection are my favourites. I collect crash covers from four different commercial airline accidents. Generally speaking, the worse the condition the more expensive they are!
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These experimental stamps had caps in them which were much larger than the hole in the original posters image. Here is an image from the US Philatelic Classics Society website which shows examples for comparison.
Don
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Wow!!! Something else I had never heard of before. Thanks for posting the exploding stamps 
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Don, I have never heard of those exploding stamps before either. I would at least think I would have seen them in the Scott U.S. Specialized. Do you have any ideas as to the values of such stamps?
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I have never seen any of these experimentals come up at auction; I have always assumed they were unique.
And if you could get a hold of any unexploded stamp...handling and storing it would be a challenge. The explosive is libel to be highly unstable and no one would want to mount it in an album. If I owned one and wanted to sell it, I would also be concerned about the litigious nature of our society. (My luck would be to sell it, have it catch the buyers house on fire, and I would get sued!)
Perhaps someone else will weigh in with additional info on any previous sales.
Don
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There was a pair of the "Percussion Cap" one cent Bank Note stamps that sold in a Siegel sale in 2006 for $1,900.
I believe they are an essay.
Vince
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There is a "Percussion Cap" essay on eBay, $1,500 or best offer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/156E-VAR-EXPLOSIVE-CAP-PATENTED-ESSAY-PF-CERT-EXTREMELY-RARE-WL4815-/190981053620?hash=item2c775b9cb4
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If you won the auction, would it be legal to ship it? USPS always asks if there are any explosives, liquids, etc... what about UPS or FedEx? How would you send it?
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11:54:01pm
" .... If you won the auction, would it be legal to ship it? USPS always asks if there are any explosives, liquids, etc... what about UPS or FedEx? How would you send it? ...."
If I won that lot for $1,500 and upon receiving it found that it failed to explode on contact could I send it back for a refund ?
Or more interestingly, upon receipt of the return of the stamp, were the seller to test it himself with the desired result where would that put us.
I think it best to go no further than "Exploded booklets."
"Cannons to the left of them.
Cannons to the right of them,
Cannons in front of them,
Volleyed and thundered ...."
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Cert says the cap has been removed...
While safety is important does removing the cap make the stamp faulty? The stamp could not be described as 'used', it has clearly been altered.
Don
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Any of these stamps I have seen for sale had the "cap" removed. If I were to purchase an example of this stamp I would want the cap removed. I don't think I would ship it through the USPS. I would send it by a private carrier if the cap was still intact.
I don't think this essay was ever used to carry mail so I don't think a used copy on a cover exists.
Here is a link to another stamp board with a discussion on the US Post Office and the different patents to prevent reuse of stamps.
http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37738
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MNF or MNE?
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned that you should take the stamp back to the dealer at the next show, presuming he/she will be there.
Take both the stamp and the mount with you and explain exactly what was discovered.
I would remind him of the price you paid and ask him if he/she thinks this would be a fair transaction for the amount you paid.
Hopefully, there will be other collectors at his/her table while you mention all this. Maybe, the dealer will offer you some form of compensation. If not, ask.
On the other proverbial hand, the dealer may proclaim innocence and at the worst end of reaction may puff up and begin denouncing you.
Either way, I would remain completely calm and explain that you will never buy another stamp from him/her.
Bruce
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10:06:45pm
Macy's Department stores had, and may still have,
the slogan, "The customer is always right,
" even if it costs the store money.
Why, are they crazy ?
Yes, like a fox.
A happy customer is the best advertisement,
and may tell one, two or three friends
about his good experience. An unhappy customer
will tell a dozen or more,
giving a slanted version,
over a longer period of time..
That is something for every seller,
hoping for repeat business,
to think about carefully.
I had a business for several years and on occasion
someone would return with a perceived problem.
Once I understood the difficulty,
my first response was almost always,
"What do you feel would be a fair solution,
Mr Customer."
Almost invariably the customer would suggest
a milder solution than I feared.
And almost all the time it was possible
to sell the customer some added item
and while I might not have a profit
on that transaction,
at least it did not cost me money.
Plus I usually wound up
with a customer for life.
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Cdj1122, respectfully disagree; the customer is not always right.
My wife ran our retail business for decades and she had both 'return policy' and the 'special order' policy posted on signs in the store next to the cash registers.
A customer had previously asked for a special order item. Not being a product we normally carried, she had ordered it but when it came in he refused to purchase it. My wife, being very much a ‘Type B’ non-confrontational person, decide to simply put it on the shelf and move on. A few weeks later, he came back in and asked her for a different special order item. My wife said she would order it if he was willing to pay for the item upfront. He refused and started getting aggressive with her. She then got uncomfortable and asked him to leave the store; instead he assaulted her. (He was arrested and later convicted of this crime.) After several decades of doing business this is one only of many stories I could tell you about how customers are not ‘always right’.
I do not think that either customers or dealers have a monopoly on jerks. The majority of customers and dealers are decent, reasonable folks but those who are not can really ruin your day in a hurry.
Don
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The Macy's slogan and return policy was revolutionary in it's time and set the stage for the return policy of nearly every large chain to this day. I think that people were simpler in those days and more honest and less conniving than people are today. In today's world many people are working their own little scams and business needs to be a step ahead of them.
For instance Walmart has an unlimited return policy. The clerk doesn't even ask you why the open box is coming back. Why? Because they push the loss back on the manufacturer. Part of their agreement is that their supplier must absorb all return costs. So they simply record the return in the cash register, toss out the product (those wind up in a shrink wrapped skid sale) and bill the supplier for the cost. In short, you and I pay for that in increased product cost.
People today buy things to try out knowing they can return it. My wife recently decided I needed a jacket (I didn't) and brought home three for me to try out. She took all three back to the store. At least they were untouched and salable, but there was a cost of transaction that the stores absorb for this.
And it gets worse. It's common practice for ladies to "rent" outfits by buying them, wearing them and returning the used clothing to the store. And stores turn a blind eye to this. Stores get back sweat marked, food stained and cigarette hole clothing that they have to toss out. And you and I pay for this.
This past week a friend of mine on FaceBook reported being at Home Depot when a lady was returning a lawn mower she bought in a sealed box. Got it home and it contained two cinder blocks wrapped in a blanket. Someone before her had scammed the store. Pretty much a common thing these days.
Last week I was at Hobby Lobby. The only cash register open was also the customer service and return counter. A good looking well dressed woman in her 30s was being obnoxious as she was returning two sealed boxes of expensive cards. The return was something like $40. I wasn't watching until she got loud and nasty when they wanted her name and address on a return form. She saw no reason that they needed any information on her since she paid cash... just give her back her money now dammit!
A store manager was beckoned to the register. She picked up one of the sealed boxes, appeared to weigh it with her hand, then she opened it up. Inside there were several of the expensive cards, but the rest of the box was filled with cardboard! The young lady turned around and quickly walked out the door. And they let her. I would've grabbed her and called the cops.
It's a sad world today.
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"...It's common practice for ladies to "rent" outfits by buying them, wearing them and returning the used clothing to the store. And stores turn a blind eye to this. Stores get back sweat marked, food stained and cigarette hole clothing that they have to toss out. And you and I pay for this.
..."
I know a very wealthy lady who also happens to be a superb seamstress. And even through she could easily afford to buy designer dresses which cost more than most of us spend on stamp collections ($2500-$7500), she scams the high end stores. She buys a dress, takes it home, disassembles it completely, makes patterns based on the dress parts, then re-assembles it and returns it to the store for a refund. She then makes herself her own designer dress from the patterns she stole.
Don
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"re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value"
I think we've strayed a bit from our topic.....?
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09:26:31am
" ... I think we've strayed a bit from our topic.....? ..."
C'est la vie,
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I agree with the very old adage that "You never really win an argument with a customer."
That does not mean that none of them ever really need a good argument.
My local Costco has a generous less-than-no-questions-asked return policy.
Okay, that's not true: they ask if you prefer a store credit (gift card) or a refund.
When I look at the traffic at the returns desk, and I see what's going out the door, I think that the returns are a trivial part of their operating costs.
One of their best policies is their here-is-a-refund-whether-you-want-it-or-not program.
Twice now, they've sent a gift card in the mail, loaded with my refund for an item that I had not complained about, had not returned ... in fact, an item of which I was completely unaware of my dissatisfaction.
In one case, they'd received enough returns on one food product that they simply sent a full refund to every customer who had bought that product from that batch (by the date, pallet load, whatever) (not a health issue, not a safety issue, not a recall).
In the other case, they'd become aware that the cloth from which a shirt had been manufactured was mis-identified (which can, of course, be a Biblical Sin), and so were sending a full refund.
No bringing the product to the store, no presenting receipts, no nothing.
Gotta love being treated like my time is valuable! (little do they know, eh?)
I don't know how many products go back to the manufacturer or wholesaler; I would think that, for non-perishables, it would be simpler to dump them on Goodwill/etc and take the tax deduction.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Hello, I'm relatively new to stamp collecting, and recent went to a show where I purchased a US Scott #76. It was used marked with VF but with minor defect "small spot at top" It has a Cogwheel cancellation. VF CV $130. I paid about a third of that (I'll pause to allow any laughter to subside).
When I went to mount the stamp, I looked at the back and the small spot was unquestionably a cigarette burn, like when a cigarette falls out of the ash tray. Some of you may remember about that. Anyway I mounted it and later flipped up the mount to look at the back again and the small spot had become a small hole where the stain, that was really an ash, had disintegrated inside the mount (another pause).
So this led to my looking at the the whole grade/condition thing. I believe I read that grade and condition do not have anything to do with each other. As far as the stamp goes, it seems nicely centered with a nice cancellation with a few damaged perforations, but overall a fairly attractive stamp (to me anyway). However, I think I paid maybe $10 too much for it, or did I? Whatever the answer I consider the whole episode to be part of the cost of an education. And I still like the stamp.
Hence, the question "What is the impact of flaws on the value of a stamp?" Thanks in advance for any input.
Lucky
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Not trying to be a jerk and please take this in the spirit that it's meant. Unfortunately, with the pulled perfs and scorched area, I feel that you got burnt worse then the stamp. I'm not as picky as some, but even I'd consider it a space filler. I do like the centering and cancel, but IMHO that doesn't warrant 30-40% of CV.
Hang in there and don't be discouraged, it could have been worse.
WB
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
You should be able to get a nicely centered #76 without any faults for a third of catalog.
Holes especially burned ones are very major faults! Damaged stamps do still have some value if they had any to begin with. I sell quite a few damaged 19th century stamps and would put a price tag of $8.50 on your stamp and it would sell but not for much more.
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
I don't mean to pile on but the cancel is suspect to my eye. It is too bold (dark), too well applied, and appears to be coming through the paper to the back of the stamp.
Don
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
I was wondering about the cancel as well....
...it looks way too "perfect" and precisely placed to be genuine - at least to MY eye.
However, I am not an expert on fancy cancels.
Randy
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
"...I believe I read that grade and condition do not have anything to do with each other...."
Grading does indeed include a stamp’s ‘condition’.
I think there is some confusion about this and it might be due to a popular software application which grades only using centering. This is due to the fact that software can easily be used to calculate centering but it is almost impossible to write software to judge and quantify a stamp’s condition. Short perfs, thins, tears, toning, alterations, repairs, creases, scuffs, and/or holes would all affect a stamp’s grade.
Don
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Thanks everyone for the feedback. Told that danged cat not to buy that thing. I particularly appreciate the suggestion of $8.50 as an appropriate price for this stamp. It's confusing when, for instance, a site like Mystic lists a used #76 with "small flaws" , whatever that means(no scan), for $65.
LS
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
FWIW I paid a bit less than $10 last month for a #76 with 'issues'.
One of my (now funny) memories is a stamp I bought at a show many years ago, what looked like a nice Scott #272. That is when I learned if encountering a stamp left in a mount by a dealer, see if there's a reason. When taking it out of the mount later I found it was in two pieces. Very skillfully pieced together.
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Wow, that's a good one. Thanks for sharing.
LS
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
I agree that grade and condition are pretty much the same thing but apply differently by seller and buyer, regardless, the Scott cat. is very precise when grading stamps and a stamp that the perfs. cut into the design of the stamp will never be VF, yet many sellers will grade it as such. Personally I feel that your stamp is not exactly as described, the first thing you notice is missing perforations and for most collectors that is a turn off almost immediately. Also using a high price dealer as you mention will get you nice stamps that you can get somewhere else for a fraction of the cost, if stamp collecting is your hobby just be patient and stamps that you like will come your way, remember stamps are not edible.
Tony
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Lutok,
Don't feel too badly as we have probably all been in your position at one time. This is how we all learn, and it may save you from something worse in the future.
I would be very suspicious of buying anything else from the same dealer again. Sometimes you can find a great deal but it really helps to have experience and do some research prior to making a "big" purchase.
Take your tongs to the show/bourse. You should be allowed to fully inspect whatever you are considering buying. Take the stamp out of the sleeve/glassine/pocket and look at both sides.
Something else to consider: a sniff test. A couple years ago, I bought a Canada album with stamps in mounts from a member of my stamp club who considers himself a dealer. Never gave it a thought until I got home and opened it up. Smelled strongly of cigarette smoke. Removed some stamps from their mounts and they reeked of smoke too. Pulled them all out of the album and sequestered them in loose envelopes away from all other stamps. Took the album and stamps back at our next club meeting - he denied being able to smell the smoke. That is the last stamp purchase I will make from him. After much airing out, the stamps seem ok but I am still leery of putting them in my good album. Lesson learned (and at a higher price than yours).
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Here are some examples of the San Francisco Cog Cancel, front and back. Your cancel probably is a fake. As Don pointed out with the ink bleeding through on the back of the stamp. That usually is a sign of a fake cancel but not always.
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Glad you jumped in there, Vince....
...nice cancel examples!
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
I love Sally's comment: THis is how we learn. I think you got an immense amount for your $40. i have never regretted any purchase I've ever made, because all of have lead me to further knowledge even if the THING purchased wasn't as valuable as advertised. Congratulations. And "small flaw" seems a bit of an understatement.
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
That's pretty much how I feel about it too, and once again I am overwhelmed by the feedback and support.
LS
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
This thread (and Lutok's stamp) reminds me of something I read several years ago. It seems that someone decided that an effective cancellation would result from including a bit of fulminate of mercury on the back of the stamp. Postal workers would strike the stamp with a hammer, which would cause the fulminate of mercury to explode and burn a hole through the stamp. Sounds like a great idea! A Scientific American article published in 1887 mentions it:
Maybe Lutok has a rarity!
Bob
P.S. Condition is just one criterion of collectibility. Some of the rattiest covers in my collection are my favourites. I collect crash covers from four different commercial airline accidents. Generally speaking, the worse the condition the more expensive they are!
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
These experimental stamps had caps in them which were much larger than the hole in the original posters image. Here is an image from the US Philatelic Classics Society website which shows examples for comparison.
Don
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Wow!!! Something else I had never heard of before. Thanks for posting the exploding stamps
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Don, I have never heard of those exploding stamps before either. I would at least think I would have seen them in the Scott U.S. Specialized. Do you have any ideas as to the values of such stamps?
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
I have never seen any of these experimentals come up at auction; I have always assumed they were unique.
And if you could get a hold of any unexploded stamp...handling and storing it would be a challenge. The explosive is libel to be highly unstable and no one would want to mount it in an album. If I owned one and wanted to sell it, I would also be concerned about the litigious nature of our society. (My luck would be to sell it, have it catch the buyers house on fire, and I would get sued!)
Perhaps someone else will weigh in with additional info on any previous sales.
Don
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
There was a pair of the "Percussion Cap" one cent Bank Note stamps that sold in a Siegel sale in 2006 for $1,900.
I believe they are an essay.
Vince
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
There is a "Percussion Cap" essay on eBay, $1,500 or best offer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/156E-VAR-EXPLOSIVE-CAP-PATENTED-ESSAY-PF-CERT-EXTREMELY-RARE-WL4815-/190981053620?hash=item2c775b9cb4
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
If you won the auction, would it be legal to ship it? USPS always asks if there are any explosives, liquids, etc... what about UPS or FedEx? How would you send it?
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 May 2017
11:54:01pm
re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
" .... If you won the auction, would it be legal to ship it? USPS always asks if there are any explosives, liquids, etc... what about UPS or FedEx? How would you send it? ...."
If I won that lot for $1,500 and upon receiving it found that it failed to explode on contact could I send it back for a refund ?
Or more interestingly, upon receipt of the return of the stamp, were the seller to test it himself with the desired result where would that put us.
I think it best to go no further than "Exploded booklets."
"Cannons to the left of them.
Cannons to the right of them,
Cannons in front of them,
Volleyed and thundered ...."
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Cert says the cap has been removed...
While safety is important does removing the cap make the stamp faulty? The stamp could not be described as 'used', it has clearly been altered.
Don
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Any of these stamps I have seen for sale had the "cap" removed. If I were to purchase an example of this stamp I would want the cap removed. I don't think I would ship it through the USPS. I would send it by a private carrier if the cap was still intact.
I don't think this essay was ever used to carry mail so I don't think a used copy on a cover exists.
Here is a link to another stamp board with a discussion on the US Post Office and the different patents to prevent reuse of stamps.
http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37738
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
MNF or MNE?
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09:40:15am
re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
I am surprised that no one has mentioned that you should take the stamp back to the dealer at the next show, presuming he/she will be there.
Take both the stamp and the mount with you and explain exactly what was discovered.
I would remind him of the price you paid and ask him if he/she thinks this would be a fair transaction for the amount you paid.
Hopefully, there will be other collectors at his/her table while you mention all this. Maybe, the dealer will offer you some form of compensation. If not, ask.
On the other proverbial hand, the dealer may proclaim innocence and at the worst end of reaction may puff up and begin denouncing you.
Either way, I would remain completely calm and explain that you will never buy another stamp from him/her.
Bruce
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 May 2017
10:06:45pm
re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Macy's Department stores had, and may still have,
the slogan, "The customer is always right,
" even if it costs the store money.
Why, are they crazy ?
Yes, like a fox.
A happy customer is the best advertisement,
and may tell one, two or three friends
about his good experience. An unhappy customer
will tell a dozen or more,
giving a slanted version,
over a longer period of time..
That is something for every seller,
hoping for repeat business,
to think about carefully.
I had a business for several years and on occasion
someone would return with a perceived problem.
Once I understood the difficulty,
my first response was almost always,
"What do you feel would be a fair solution,
Mr Customer."
Almost invariably the customer would suggest
a milder solution than I feared.
And almost all the time it was possible
to sell the customer some added item
and while I might not have a profit
on that transaction,
at least it did not cost me money.
Plus I usually wound up
with a customer for life.
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
Cdj1122, respectfully disagree; the customer is not always right.
My wife ran our retail business for decades and she had both 'return policy' and the 'special order' policy posted on signs in the store next to the cash registers.
A customer had previously asked for a special order item. Not being a product we normally carried, she had ordered it but when it came in he refused to purchase it. My wife, being very much a ‘Type B’ non-confrontational person, decide to simply put it on the shelf and move on. A few weeks later, he came back in and asked her for a different special order item. My wife said she would order it if he was willing to pay for the item upfront. He refused and started getting aggressive with her. She then got uncomfortable and asked him to leave the store; instead he assaulted her. (He was arrested and later convicted of this crime.) After several decades of doing business this is one only of many stories I could tell you about how customers are not ‘always right’.
I do not think that either customers or dealers have a monopoly on jerks. The majority of customers and dealers are decent, reasonable folks but those who are not can really ruin your day in a hurry.
Don
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
The Macy's slogan and return policy was revolutionary in it's time and set the stage for the return policy of nearly every large chain to this day. I think that people were simpler in those days and more honest and less conniving than people are today. In today's world many people are working their own little scams and business needs to be a step ahead of them.
For instance Walmart has an unlimited return policy. The clerk doesn't even ask you why the open box is coming back. Why? Because they push the loss back on the manufacturer. Part of their agreement is that their supplier must absorb all return costs. So they simply record the return in the cash register, toss out the product (those wind up in a shrink wrapped skid sale) and bill the supplier for the cost. In short, you and I pay for that in increased product cost.
People today buy things to try out knowing they can return it. My wife recently decided I needed a jacket (I didn't) and brought home three for me to try out. She took all three back to the store. At least they were untouched and salable, but there was a cost of transaction that the stores absorb for this.
And it gets worse. It's common practice for ladies to "rent" outfits by buying them, wearing them and returning the used clothing to the store. And stores turn a blind eye to this. Stores get back sweat marked, food stained and cigarette hole clothing that they have to toss out. And you and I pay for this.
This past week a friend of mine on FaceBook reported being at Home Depot when a lady was returning a lawn mower she bought in a sealed box. Got it home and it contained two cinder blocks wrapped in a blanket. Someone before her had scammed the store. Pretty much a common thing these days.
Last week I was at Hobby Lobby. The only cash register open was also the customer service and return counter. A good looking well dressed woman in her 30s was being obnoxious as she was returning two sealed boxes of expensive cards. The return was something like $40. I wasn't watching until she got loud and nasty when they wanted her name and address on a return form. She saw no reason that they needed any information on her since she paid cash... just give her back her money now dammit!
A store manager was beckoned to the register. She picked up one of the sealed boxes, appeared to weigh it with her hand, then she opened it up. Inside there were several of the expensive cards, but the rest of the box was filled with cardboard! The young lady turned around and quickly walked out the door. And they let her. I would've grabbed her and called the cops.
It's a sad world today.
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
"...It's common practice for ladies to "rent" outfits by buying them, wearing them and returning the used clothing to the store. And stores turn a blind eye to this. Stores get back sweat marked, food stained and cigarette hole clothing that they have to toss out. And you and I pay for this.
..."
I know a very wealthy lady who also happens to be a superb seamstress. And even through she could easily afford to buy designer dresses which cost more than most of us spend on stamp collections ($2500-$7500), she scams the high end stores. She buys a dress, takes it home, disassembles it completely, makes patterns based on the dress parts, then re-assembles it and returns it to the store for a refund. She then makes herself her own designer dress from the patterns she stole.
Don
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
"re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value"
I think we've strayed a bit from our topic.....?
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
18 May 2017
09:26:31am
re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
" ... I think we've strayed a bit from our topic.....? ..."
C'est la vie,
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re: Impact of Flaws on Stamp Value
I agree with the very old adage that "You never really win an argument with a customer."
That does not mean that none of them ever really need a good argument.
My local Costco has a generous less-than-no-questions-asked return policy.
Okay, that's not true: they ask if you prefer a store credit (gift card) or a refund.
When I look at the traffic at the returns desk, and I see what's going out the door, I think that the returns are a trivial part of their operating costs.
One of their best policies is their here-is-a-refund-whether-you-want-it-or-not program.
Twice now, they've sent a gift card in the mail, loaded with my refund for an item that I had not complained about, had not returned ... in fact, an item of which I was completely unaware of my dissatisfaction.
In one case, they'd received enough returns on one food product that they simply sent a full refund to every customer who had bought that product from that batch (by the date, pallet load, whatever) (not a health issue, not a safety issue, not a recall).
In the other case, they'd become aware that the cloth from which a shirt had been manufactured was mis-identified (which can, of course, be a Biblical Sin), and so were sending a full refund.
No bringing the product to the store, no presenting receipts, no nothing.
Gotta love being treated like my time is valuable! (little do they know, eh?)
I don't know how many products go back to the manufacturer or wholesaler; I would think that, for non-perishables, it would be simpler to dump them on Goodwill/etc and take the tax deduction.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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